http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F272-2A2FDo

 

 

 

So, this is a 21 minute show of Crossfire (a debate program ran by CNN). This show with as guests John Lofton and Frank Zappa about censorship in music and other art-forms in general. I thought it was a pretty interesting (and funny) show, and figured it might be a good idea to put it up here on the forums and hear some opinions of others.

 

 

 

So, should music and other art forms get censored? Yes, no? Why? And when should something be censored? What is going too far?

 

 

 

Oh, it's G-rated. Swearing and so is censored with a *beep*.

Too bad I can't see it, I've exceeded my download limit But anyway, as you may expect from my side, I'm against cencorship of any kind. The only thing that's bad about it, is that young kids think it's cool to use those words, even though it's really inappropriate in most ways it's used.

 

An example of over-cussing are all rnb things these days, an example of normal use of censored words are the Tarantino movies.

Too bad I can't see it, I've exceeded my download limit But anyway, as you may expect from my side, I'm against cencorship of any kind. The only thing that's bad about it, is that young kids think it's cool to use those words, even though it's really inappropriate in most ways it's used.

 

An example of over-cussing are all rnb things these days, an example of normal use of censored words are the Tarantino movies.

 

 

 

Why is the use of those words 'normal' in Tarantino movies, but not in R 'n B music? What's the difference?

Too bad I can't see it, I've exceeded my download limit But anyway, as you may expect from my side, I'm against cencorship of any kind. The only thing that's bad about it, is that young kids think it's cool to use those words, even though it's really inappropriate in most ways it's used.

 

An example of over-cussing are all rnb things these days, an example of normal use of censored words are the Tarantino movies.

 

 

 

Why is the use of those words 'normal' in Tarantino movies, but not in R 'n B music? What's the difference?

 

 

 

There realy isn't any difference.

 

 

 

 

 

I generaly find that using a swear word in replace of it's "lesser kind" can have a much more compelling effect. I am also against censorship, no mater what it is in.

 

 

 

 

 

honestly, there "shouldn't" be a difference between crap and s***, but there is. They mean the same thing, except the later is deemed stronger.

Watching it right now.

 

I don't agree with any sort of censorship or government intervention on people's lives or on what they can or can't do. That's not government's role.

 

However, even agreeing with Zappa's point and actually laughing every time he tells that Washington Times guy to go out more and things like "I wasn't aware that incest was such a big problem in America" or "I make millions of dollars from it. Millions of dollars", I don't think his point is strong enough: people can argue that "It's just words", but they can't argue that it's the people's right to listen and watch to whatever they want, whenever they want.

 

 

 

He was so right, though. America has really became a fascist theocracy.

 

 

 

Oy: That's what happens when you upload Aoe 3 times in a month. :P

Too bad I can't see it, I've exceeded my download limit But anyway, as you may expect from my side, I'm against cencorship of any kind. The only thing that's bad about it, is that young kids think it's cool to use those words, even though it's really inappropriate in most ways it's used.

 

An example of over-cussing are all rnb things these days, an example of normal use of censored words are the Tarantino movies.

 

 

 

Why is the use of those words 'normal' in Tarantino movies, but not in R 'n B music? What's the difference?

 

 

 

Tarantino movies: cursing for obvious reasons (someone died, coffee spilt, shoes got dirty.. everything I'd shout for as well)

 

rap: cursing because it's hot

 

e.g.:

 

z[bleep]es.html]snoop dog[/url]":1msh86xk]Well it's that slow flow, D-O-double-G, [racist term]

 

See these other fools but you can't see me, [racist term]

 

Who am I? (It's Kurupt [bleep])

 

Do or die (We gives a [bleep] [bleep])

 

So slow your roll, I'm In Control like Janet

 

The loc-est twenty-one year old [racist term] that's on this planet

 

Take it for granted, if ya wanna, cuz I'm gonna

 

grab my strap then clear the corner, beeotch!!

 

Of course everything here has been replaced by other words or a *, but you get the point.

 

 

 

@Api: Myeah.. Well age is worth it :thumbsup:

I agree with censorship in music. But like always, it depends on the situation.

 

 

 

Api, try not to judge what America is now from a video two decades old.

I agree with censorship in music. But like always, it depends on the situation.

 

 

 

Api, try not to judge what America is now from a video two decades old.

 

 

 

Why should it be censored then? And Api wasn't judging America from a video two decades ago. He was judging America on something that was said in that video two decades ago. And the thing said was that America was HEADING towards a fascist theocracy, so I can't see anything wrong in what Api said. Other than being a little bit off topic, but we can handle that.

 

 

 

Oy, you could use a different word in real life as well, shen you spill coffee. Tarantino uses the swearing also for stylish reasons, just like his excessive use of violence. Not that I'm having problems with it, I'm against censorship. But I honestly can't see why a cussing word in a rap song is any worse than when it's used in a movie.

I agree with censorship in music. But like always, it depends on the situation.

 

 

 

Api, try not to judge what America is now from a video two decades old.

 

 

 

Why should it be censored then? And Api wasn't judging America from a video two decades ago. He was judging America on something that was said in that video two decades ago. And the thing said was that America was HEADING towards a fascist theocracy, so I can't see anything wrong in what Api said. Other than being a little bit off topic, but we can handle that.

 

 

 

Oy, you could use a different word in real life as well, shen you spill coffee. Tarantino uses the swearing also for stylish reasons, just like his excessive use of violence. Not that I'm having problems with it, I'm against censorship. But I honestly can't see why a cussing word in a rap song is any worse than when it's used in a movie.

 

 

 

Um, he said this,

 

 

 

America has really became a fascist theocracy

 

 

 

So yes, he is judging what America 'has become' from a video two decades old.

 

 

 

Sure, it said it was heading to a fascist theocracy, but did it really happen? If it did, rap songs would've been banned left and right. Sex wouldn't exist on tv right now. But what happened? You have cartoon sitcoms that involve sex and cursing, shows like Desperate Housewives or Sex in the City that is nothing more than a bunch of women being whored out.

 

 

 

And when was the last time the American government banned a song for its lyrics?

 

 

 

Cursing in a rap song is different from cursing in a movie because AFAIK, there is no such thing as a song rating system.

Um, he said this,

 

 

 

America has really became a fascist theocracy

 

 

 

So yes, he is judging what America 'has become' from a video two decades old.

 

 

 

I mean Zappa said HEADING, not Api.So Api is only saying Zappa is right from something Zappa 'predicted'. I can't see what's wrong with that or how is judging America from a video. He's judging America from a comment made by a musician on that show.

 

 

 

Sure, it said it was heading to a fascist theocracy, but did it really happen? If it did, rap songs would've been banned left and right. Sex wouldn't exist on tv right now. But what happened? You have cartoon sitcoms that involve sex and cursing, shows like Desperate Housewives or Sex in the City that is nothing more than a bunch of women being * out.

 

 

 

I don't know if it really happened. Api said it, not me. Ask Api.

 

 

 

And when was the last time the American government banned a song for its lyrics?

 

 

 

I don't know, and I'm not accusing the american government of censoring songs. I'm merely interested if you guys think censorship should in arts should be done or not.

 

 

 

Cursing in a rap song is different from cursing in a movie because AFAIK, there is no such thing as a song rating system.

 

 

 

So, because there's no rating system there's a difference in the words and their meaning?

Censorship in music/art is a myth. If someone's heard about it being censored, it just drives them to obtain the uncensored version and thus heightening its popularity. It usually leads to illegal obtainment, too, for instance, downloading and file-sharing.

Censorship in music/art is a myth. If someone's heard about it being censored, it just drives them to obtain the uncensored version and thus heightening its popularity. It usually leads to illegal obtainment, too, for instance, downloading and file-sharing.

 

 

 

Body Count in the house

Censoring is pretty pointless these days, kids can get the uncensored version anywhere, and I find those *bleeps* in the songs way more annoying then the words.

 

The parents just have to teach their kids why they can't use those words.

Um, he said this,

 

 

 

America has really became a fascist theocracy

 

 

 

So yes, he is judging what America 'has become' from a video two decades old.

 

 

 

I mean Zappa said HEADING, not Api.So Api is only saying Zappa is right from something Zappa 'predicted'. I can't see what's wrong with that or how is judging America from a video. He's judging America from a comment made by a musician on that show.

 

 

 

I'm not judging America based on a video, I'm just commenting that America is, today, much closer to a fascist theocracy than it was 20 years ago. And as Zappa said it was heading to it, it has reminded me of how I think America's current government is supported by people who still believe in fascist and theocratical ideas.

 

 

 

Sure, it said it was heading to a fascist theocracy, but did it really happen? If it did, rap songs would've been banned left and right. Sex wouldn't exist on tv right now. But what happened? You have cartoon sitcoms that involve sex and cursing, shows like Desperate Housewives or Sex in the City that is nothing more than a bunch of women being * out.

 

 

 

I don't know if it really happened. Api said it, not me. Ask Api.

 

 

 

I don't think those shows are all about women being * out. Not at all. Just because women aren't inferior to men and have sexual liberty in that show , you say it is all about women being * out? What about men? Men have been acting like those women for centuries now. Why can't women act like that as well?

 

 

 

Anyway, Carlo, I don't really want to get in an argument here. Since it's not even in the thread's topic.

I'm not judging America based on a video, I'm just commenting that America is, today, much closer to a fascist theocracy than it was 20 years ago. And as Zappa said it was heading to it, it has reminded me of how I think America's current government is supported by people who still believe in fascist and theocratical ideas.

 

 

 

Yeah? How? America has gotten more lax as time passed by, not stricter. So I don't understand how it has come closer to a fascist theocracy.

 

 

 

I don't think those shows are all about women being * out. Not at all. Just because women aren't inferior to men and have sexual liberty in that show , you say it is all about women being * out? What about men? Men have been acting like those women for centuries now. Why can't women act like that as well?

 

 

 

You're not supporting your statement at all. You just mentioned 'sexual liberty.' Do you think that's one sign of being closer to a fascist theocracy?

 

 

 

And what the heck are you talking about? I'm not talking about what people do, I'm talking about the things allowed on television. Two decades ago, there would be no such thing as Sex and the City or Desperate Housewives on the television. Now, they exist because the society is getting lax in terms of sex in the media (Is that another sign of fascist theocracy?) . And yes, those shows are about women being whored out. And au contraire, I have never seen a television show that has the same plot for men. Want to give an example?

 

 

 

If you don't want to argue, stop spouting off stupid anti-anything comments without backing it up.

 

 

 

So, because there's no rating system there's a difference in the words and their meaning?

 

 

 

No, there's a difference to what audience can get to them. No such thing as a PG-13 warning clear for parents to see whether the music is alright for their 8 yr old child. There's no such thing as a Rated-R that would restrict the kid from being able to hear the music. Parents have less power to restrict their children with music, so censorship (or a different effective way to keep children from being able to hear explicit lyrics or watch explicit videos) that would come from a group set up by the music industry would be helpful.

You've got a parental advisory sticker. Besides, why should children be 'protected' for those 'nasty' words?

Is that a trick question?

I wouldn't know. Looks like a normal question to me. Might want to ask some others before answering though. Just to be sure.

Right, I'm against censorship of any kind in art.

 

First, because I dislike puritanism.

 

Second, because I haven't seen a single credible argument as to why censorship is beneficial to society. It's just another case of 'oh, let's put the blame for all society's evils on X'. In this case, X is swearing.

 

The only effect censorship has is to create difficulty in the artist getting his/her message across. Whatever his/her message may be. The basic right to freedom of speech should include the right to express yourself in whatever way you desire.

 

There was a nice episode of Millennium on the subject of censorship in television...I dunno if any of you watch this show. But it was about a censor who went mad and tried to 'censor' real life, going around telling people this or that was unacceptable, and ended up getting shot by a guy who unfortunately didn't follow 20th century fox guidelines. :P

I wouldn't know. Looks like a normal question to me. Might want to ask some others before answering though. Just to be sure.

 

 

 

Seems like the Tip.It admins censored these 'nasty' words as well. Are you telling me that what they have no reason to do so?

i once made a comic, in it my main charachter keept swearing untill the fcc came in and killed him with a shotgun...

 

 

 

 

 

does anyone else find it ond that kid's arent alowed to hear swear words? but they are aloud to watch as much violent programing as they want? (cough..cartoon network...)

America had more freedoms and was much more open minded during the Clinton administration. And it still wasn't all that open minded, face a sexual scandal has almost led the president to an impeachment.

 

Yes, it has gotten more lax, but not as much as other countries that have about the same amount of information avaliable for the people, such as Canada and european countries. That makes the US more conservative, when comparing them to other countries on the same level. (of course there's no way you can argue that "In Phillipines, people are much more conservative", since people there don't have as much information and culture, things that has led the world to a mind opening process, historically.

 

 

 

As I said, it is not a literal fascist theocracy, obviously, since people still have the right to vote for open minded candidates, and they chose not to.

 

 

 

Do you know how late the US is on laxing sex on TV? Brazil has been ruled by a right wing dictatorship for over 30 years, on the 60s 70s and 80s, and we still weren't as restrictive to sex as the US was just some years ago.

 

 

 

You've never seen TV shows where man go out to [bleep] with no commitment? Whoa.

 

 

 

Now, Carlo, that's the way I think. Nothing you say will change that, if you want to keep it up, keep it.

America had more freedoms and was much more open minded during the Clinton administration.

 

 

 

So tell me again how exactly America has become a fascist theocracy?

 

 

 

And it still wasn't all that open minded, face a sexual scandal has almost led the president to an impeachment.

 

 

 

No western country would want their government to have that kind of reputation.

 

 

 

Yes, it has gotten more lax, but not as much as other countries that have about the same amount of information avaliable for the people, such as Canada and european countries. That makes the US more conservative, when comparing them to other countries on the same level.

 

 

 

Compare countries on the same level? Alright, go compare China and the US.

 

 

 

So what if some countries make the US more conservative? It's still leagues away from being a fascist theocracy.

 

 

 

(of course there's no way you can argue that "In Phillipines, people are much more conservative", since people there don't have as much information and culture, things that has led the world to a mind opening process, historically.

 

 

 

One thing people shouldn't do is argue with me about the Philippines :lol: And you do not talk about it when you have zero knowledge on how the country works.

 

 

 

One thing you do not say is that Philippines has no culture. Of the past invasions and connections, the Philippines culture is RICH compared to most countries. A combination of Chinese-Spanish-American history, not to mention the hundreds of native tribes that exist there.

 

 

 

Just how rich is Philippine's culture? 170 different languages exist in the Philippines. Brazil has how many? Not to mention that of the South-East Asian countries, the Philippines is so unlike the other Oriental countries such as China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc.

 

 

 

You want history? How about the fact that the Philippines was invaded by the Spanish, Japanese and the Americans and has been independent for over a century now.

 

 

 

Even though Philippines is a third world country, it's not exactly opressed. Information is everywhere there.

 

 

 

As I said, it is not a literal fascist theocracy, obviously, since people still have the right to vote for open minded candidates, and they chose not to.

 

 

 

"He was so right, though. America has really became a fascist theocracy. " ??? What?

 

 

 

Do you know how late the US is on laxing sex on TV? Brazil has been ruled by a right wing dictatorship for over 30 years, on the 60s 70s and 80s, and we still weren't as restrictive to sex as the US was just some years ago.

 

 

 

We're not arguing how late the US became lax on sex. We're discussing how the US really did become a fascist theocracy. You're really not proving your point.

 

 

 

By telling me the US did become lax on sex as the years passed by, you're only disproving your statement that the US really did become a fascist theocracy.

 

 

 

You've never seen TV shows where man go out to * with no commitment? Whoa.

 

 

 

I don't think I remember watching a male version of Desperate Housewives or Sex and the City. Care to remind me?

 

 

 

Now, Carlo, that's the way I think. Nothing you say will change that, if you want to keep it up, keep it.

 

 

 

Dude, it's just a debate.

I wouldn't know. Looks like a normal question to me. Might want to ask some others before answering though. Just to be sure.

 

 

 

Seems like the Tip.It admins censored these 'nasty' words as well. Are you telling me that what they have no reason to do so?

 

 

 

Nope. Now answer my question.

There's no need to. You agree that they have a reason to censor those words and why? Because kids frequent these forums. The same logic applies to censorship on anything.