Abortion Opinions (no flaming)

[HugATree]

HugATree, If there is a God, then in and of Himself, all the really difficult questions of life are answered... Who am I? I am a masterpiece, hand crafted by the Great Artisian. Why am I here? He wanted to make me. Where am I going? Either to be with HIM forever, or to be sepperated from HIM forever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are nothing short of assumptions, a God could have a completely different plan to what you just described.

 

 

 

I never asked what your understanding was, I asked what makes your understanding anymore valid than some elses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And in response to your second quary: if there is a God, then He created us. If He created us, then we have a purpose. If we have a purpose, then it's somehow related to Him. So it only makes sence that we need to know Him to know that purpose. And interestingly enough, this knowing Him is, in and of itself, a purpose. (in fact, I believe the primary purpose of life)

 

 

 

In other words exactly what every other religion is doing.

[Multani]

My personal view: A man shouldn't tell a woman what to do with her body. A woman should be able to do what she chooses. She is responsible for her self and her actions. I know women that have had abortions, and it is one of the toughest choices they have ever made. It isn't "just a form of birth control" to anyone but a sociopath.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, medically, the fetal tissue is just that. Tissue. In the first trimester, it is no more a seperate entity then your pinky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And one further point: If abortions are outlawed, they will still happen. But now, they aren't going to happen in sanitary places, and the doctors performing the operation aren't as likely to be certified. The risk to the woman is much higher in this situation.

[grandma_twinki]

My personal view: A man shouldn't tell a woman what to do with her body. A woman should be able to do what she chooses. She is responsible for her self and her actions. I know women that have had abortions, and it is one of the toughest choices they have ever made. It isn't "just a form of birth control" to anyone but a sociopath.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, medically, the fetal tissue is just that. Tissue. In the first trimester, it is no more a seperate entity then your pinky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And one further point: If abortions are outlawed, they will still happen. But now, they aren't going to happen in sanitary places, and the doctors performing the operation aren't as likely to be certified. The risk to the woman is much higher in this situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, [ But not the '08 McCain part.... ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If abortion was ruled illegal there is still going to be women who will do anything to get it. So therefore the creation of "back ally abortion".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Much higher risks, may cause death of many women.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So if you were a pregnant woman what would you choose?

 

 

 

1. Abortion by a certified doctor in a hospital

 

 

 

2. Abortion by a who knows what, in an ally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Choose your future.

[jackalope14]

Im strongly pro-life and I believe that only one case should a baby be able to be aborted and that is if the mother and the babies life is in danger.

 

 

 

I dont see how you can abort a baby when its heart starts to function in the first 20 days (in which most people dont even know they are pregnant) and when thier brain startes to form in the first 40 days.

[grandma_twinki]

Im strongly pro-life and I believe that only one case should a baby be able to be aborted and that is if the mother and the babies life is in danger.

 

 

 

I dont see how you can abort a baby when its heart starts to function in the first 20 days (in which most people dont even know they are pregnant) and when thier brain startes to form in the first 40 days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Way too simplistic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This this just one issue:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What about rape?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does the mother have to carry and give birth to a baby of her attacker?

[Mercifull]

Way too simplistic

 

 

 

This this just one issue:

 

 

 

What about rape?

 

 

 

Does the mother have to carry and give birth to a baby of her attacker?

 

 

 

Its pointless asking anymore, pro-life people care not for the psycological implications

[grandma_twinki]

 

Way too simplistic

 

 

 

This this just one issue:

 

 

 

What about rape?

 

 

 

Does the mother have to carry and give birth to a baby of her attacker?

 

 

 

Its pointless asking anymore, pro-life people care not for the psycological implications

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pro-life for another future raper? [ May be in the genics in the newborn which was recieved from the raper ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Use your heads people.

[X_Awesome_X]

Rape is no reason to kill a baby. If the baby raped someone then maybe they would deserve to die, but the baby does nothing wrong and it does not deserve to be killed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The argument about it still going to happen even if its illegal is stupid, by that argument nothing would be illegal since everything will still happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A baby is not just part of a womans body. I will not argue that the woman has a special connection to the baby but killing a baby is not the same as cutting off your pinky.

[grandma_twinki]

Rape is no reason to kill a baby. If the baby raped someone then maybe they would deserve to die, but the baby does nothing wrong and it does not deserve to be killed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The argument about it still going to happen even if its illegal is stupid, by that argument nothing would be illegal since everything will still happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A baby is not just part of a womans body. I will not argue that the woman has a special connection to the baby but killing a baby is not the same as cutting off your pinky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What if it's at an early stage?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the "baby" is one celled, is it still a baby?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you lose blood, your losing many cells.

 

 

 

If your going to say " No that's different ", what about a woman's mentral period? Her body is killed half of a baby? So because of this natural thing she's committing a crime? If a guy killes sperm, is he killing half of a baby as well? so did these people all commit murder?

[Demeige]

Yes, if a female was to get raped and pregnant should she have to go through birth without a father or actually any spouse.

[Zealot]

My personal view: A man shouldn't tell a woman what to do with her body. Agreed... However, I would go so far as to say that nobody has the right to tell anybody what they can or can not do with their body short of the creator of that body... A woman should be able to do what she chooses. So then a woman should be able to choose to steal a car because she wants to? She is responsible for her self and her actions. This does not make certian actions "right" though. Murder is murder, even if society defines it as acceptable. As is theft still theft. I know women that have had abortions, and it is one of the toughest choices they have ever made. It isn't "just a form of birth control" to anyone but a sociopath. Agreed... But as far as I can see, because there is no significant difference between an abortion and murder, it really makes anybody who has an abortion for any reason short of the pregnancy being life threatening a sociopath.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, medically, the fetal tissue is just that. Tissue. In the first trimester, it is no more a seperate entity then your pinky. Medically speaking... That isn't to say that medecine is always 100% accurate about everything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And one further point: If abortions are outlawed, they will still happen. But now, they aren't going to happen in sanitary places, and the doctors performing the operation aren't as likely to be certified. The risk to the woman is much higher in this situation.Though I agree with you that abortions would continue, I do not think it appropriate for the government to say that abortions are an acceptable practice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mercifull, Yes, there is a chance that part of the violence is genetic, but not likely that all of it is. Yes, it's heartbreaking that a man would force himself on a woman... My aunt was raped and murdered when she was only 12 years old, and it's a horrible thing to think about. It's horroble that any man would do such a thing... But the solution isn't to take an innocent life. Yes, that fetus has potential for evil, but it has potential to do good as well. Who are we to decide that it doesn't desirve the chance to live out its potential because it may follow in its father's shoes? Do not condemn the child for the sins of the father... Nor the father for the sins of his son. Let each person stand or fall on their own actions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And ultimately, I suspect that there's at least equal, if not greater psychological scarring from the abortion as from carrying your attacker's child.

[grandma_twinki]

Yes, if a female was to get raped and pregnant should she have to go through birth without a father or actually any spouse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

She didn't choose to be raped correct? So she should be able to choose whether to give birth to this 'child' or not. It should be her decision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, rapers usually do not just commit one rape but many.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a 13 year old girl is raped, she has to raise this child, give birth, or put this child up for adoption? When the child grows up, will he/she not want to find out how she/he was conceived? How would you feel if your life was given to you because someone had commited a crime? Rape. Without a father how would you feel? An empty place in your heart, you may hate the man who commited this crime, maybe you won't, maybe you'll think it's okay to do it because a child can be borned. So another criminal? Another unhappy life?

 

 

 

What about the 13 year old, how would she feel if she is obligated to give birth to this "child"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Put your self into that position, but many cannot, because you think it won't happen to you or anyone you know. Until that day, your mind will change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I analyze in different perspectives. Try it, it might change the way you think.

[Mercifull]

Yes, if a female was to get raped and pregnant should she have to go through birth without a father or actually any spouse.

 

 

 

You are obviously NOT a woman.

[HugATree]

 

A woman should be able to do what she chooses. So then a woman should be able to choose to steal a car because she wants to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a flawed anology, the cars existence has no impact on the womans life or body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who are we to decide that it doesn't desirve the chance to live out its potential because it may follow in its father's shoes?

 

 

 

The only ones trying to enforce their decisions are the pro-lifers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And ultimately, I suspect that there's at least equal, if not greater psychological scarring from the abortion as from carrying your attacker's child.

 

 

 

Thats why in some countries the decisions are felt up to the women, not pro-lifers who'd rather she be forced to have the child.

[grandma_twinki]

IF abortion is banned...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Women might go to different countries to get abortion such as neighboring countrys [ Mexico, Canada, South Americas , etc ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or other alternatives such as adoption, then foster homes will be over populated, etc and cause plenty of other problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what law there is on abortion, the mother will do something. The way i see it, the way it is now is fine... It isn't causing a lot of problems, except complaining pro-lifers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what issues there are, there will always be people finding the tiniest flaws and argue with their opponents.

[Death_By_Pod]

 

To Zealot with regards to the potential stuff (since quite a lot of stuff is mostly off topic and potential is the bulk of the argument at hand):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok letÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s say that you are right and we should keep the foetus because of its potential. Would it not be a loss of potential if we did not use every ovum that a female has? I'm not sure how to make myself more clear on why I draw the line at conception, but I'll try one more time... Before the moment of conception, neither the sperm, nor the egg have the potential to become a living human being in and of themselves. They each only have half the DNA neccicary to make a functioning human body after all. But at the moment of conception, that potential for a human life is sparked. That is why I dismiss this argument as pointless. One of those ova must develop into a child that cures cancer or the next countries ruler (as someone will have to eventually fill these shoes; it just takes time) and if this wonderful person depended on the outcome of wether safe sex is practiced or not (have a chance or greatly remove the chance of conceiving); would it not be murder if the couple decided to abstain? No, because in and of themselves, neither partner is capable of generating a baby naturally. What would have been if they did decided to take the chance, an important figure yet this type of "abortion" is not recognised. I was going to say something, but decided against it because it was rude for no sake but being rude... Sufficing to say, abstanance and abortion are not one in the same. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another way at looking about foetal abortion is if the parents did plan to abstain permanently then the issue would never arise therefore the argument of potential would never exist yet the moment they remove abstinence the issue of potential suddenly arises (because the chance of having a child is always above 0). Hence I agree with the Bible's assesment that sex belongs only in the context of marrage... But that's another topic altogether... And I really don't see how this argument relates to abortion, so please either expound, or drop it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How could we value a child before we even decide if we want to abstain or not? So if it is a foetus it is more valuable then the ova (the rarer sex cell) that are used to create the foetus? The ova (egg cell) does not have the potential to become a living human being until it is fertilized... I've already tried several times to say this clearly and concisely. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just wasting my breath (or fingers as the case happens to be...)

 

 

 

There were probably a couple of other points I wanted to make however they left my mind while working on the above ahh well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because they have half the DNA doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t mean that they donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t exist as potential. We only use half DNA from each parent as a form of evolution and diversity to help us adapt to the best situation by making certain traits dominant or recessive due to the underperforming trait die before it can get passed down.

 

 

 

Asexual reproduction is natural it can be found in a variety of organisms, it would obviously be a part of intelligent design (as they exist because a creator created them) however these organisms generally favour r-Selection (many siblings) over K-selection (few siblings).

 

 

 

What if we were an r-selection species; we would not expect our children to survive nor would we have a need for diversity and we would only consist of one sex and focus on numbers?

 

 

 

The amount of DNA a reproduction cell (and hence its sex) is only a evolutionary trait and only suits the potential argument because we are a species that favours few siblings, proper caring and diversity have we were the other way around this argument would not hold.

[unknownmasterofnothing]

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

[logic-is-overrated]

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

If a woman gets raped she obviously was too lazy to take advantage of the buy one get one free pepper spray deal for a limited time only.

[HugATree]

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How does anyone choose to be raped?

[Mercifull]

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My respect for you has diminshed forever! You are a religeous fanatic with no respect for women and their own feelings and rights

 

 

 

If i was allowed to swear then i would be kicking your [wagon] right now, and for that comment alone i would have banned you on any of my forums

[logic-is-overrated]

 

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My respect for you has diminshed forever! You are a religeous fanatic with no respect for women and their own feelings and rights

 

 

 

If i was allowed to swear then i would be kicking your wagon right now, and for that comment alone i would have banned you on any of my forums

I could've sworn there was a touch of sarcasm in his post, but...

[grandma_twinki]

 

 

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My respect for you has diminshed forever! You are a religeous fanatic with no respect for women and their own feelings and rights

 

 

 

If i was allowed to swear then i would be kicking your wagon right now, and for that comment alone i would have banned you on any of my forums

I could've sworn there was a touch of sarcasm in his post, but...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Erm... Choose to be raped? I don't think that's the right term for that, i think that's just having sex. Maybe you should look up the word rape so you can learn the correct definition.

[unknownmasterofnothing]

 

 

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My respect for you has diminshed forever! You are a religeous fanatic with no respect for women and their own feelings and rights

 

 

 

If i was allowed to swear then i would be kicking your wagon right now, and for that comment alone i would have banned you on any of my forums

I could've sworn there was a touch of sarcasm in his post, but...

 

 

 

ok maybe i should have been more elaborate... If my comment made any type of sense, then it shows how messed up people actually are. Its sick to even believe that someone would actually be heartless to women just for people to follow the rules of their own religion.

[logic-is-overrated]

 

 

 

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My respect for you has diminshed forever! You are a religeous fanatic with no respect for women and their own feelings and rights

 

 

 

If i was allowed to swear then i would be kicking your wagon right now, and for that comment alone i would have banned you on any of my forums

I could've sworn there was a touch of sarcasm in his post, but...

 

 

 

ok maybe i should have been more elaborate... If my comment made any type of sense, then it shows how messed up people actually are. Its sick to even believe that someone would actually be heartless to women just for people to follow the rules of their own religion.

So I was correct in thinking you were mocking the hard core pro-life?

[killer_stone]

 

 

 

 

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My respect for you has diminshed forever! You are a religeous fanatic with no respect for women and their own feelings and rights

 

 

 

If i was allowed to swear then i would be kicking your wagon right now, and for that comment alone i would have banned you on any of my forums

I could've sworn there was a touch of sarcasm in his post, but...

 

 

 

ok maybe i should have been more elaborate... If my comment made any type of sense, then it shows how messed up people actually are. Its sick to even believe that someone would actually be heartless to women just for people to follow the rules of their own religion.

So I was correct in thinking you were mocking the hard core pro-life?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ahem websters definition of "rape"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Main Entry: 3rape

 

 

 

Function: noun

 

 

 

1 : an act or instance of robbing or despoiling or carrying away a person by force

 

 

 

2 : unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent -- compare SEXUAL ASSAULT, STATUTORY RAPE

 

 

 

3 : an outrageous violation"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dam conservitive christions leave relgion out off politics it has NO place there (at least in america where were FREE to choose our own relgion and not have one forced upon us)