Abortion Opinions (no flaming)

[doorbell]

 

 

 

Third, I'm not a woman so I don't think I have any say in the issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A. Lincoln wasn't a slave, but he made his say about slavery quite loudly.

[X_Awesome_X]

Both raped mothers and the babies of the rapists are more likely to commit suicide than other people.

 

 

 

Stats from the ODPM 2000 (sorry you cant access this data its for goverment ppl only)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do raped mother commit more suicides then people who have been raped and had an abortion or just not people who have been raped? Also why not let the kid decide for himself whether he/she wants to live better to let them be born and commit suicide then just kill them.

[Mercifull]

 

Both raped mothers and the babies of the rapists are more likely to commit suicide than other people.

 

 

 

Stats from the ODPM 2000 (sorry you cant access this data its for goverment ppl only)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do raped mother commit more suicides then people who have been raped and had an abortion or just not people who have been raped? Also why not let the kid decide for himself whether he/she wants to live better to let them be born and commit suicide then just kill them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So if sombody commits suicide thats straight to hell right? But if a baby is aborted they go to heaven. Eternal happiness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to play the religeon card ;)

[Zeldafreek]

 

 

 

 

Third, I'm not a woman so I don't think I have any say in the issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A. Lincoln wasn't a slave, but he made his say about slavery quite loudly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sometimes it's smart to think about things you post.

[X_Awesome_X]

 

 

Both raped mothers and the babies of the rapists are more likely to commit suicide than other people.

 

 

 

Stats from the ODPM 2000 (sorry you cant access this data its for goverment ppl only)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do raped mother commit more suicides then people who have been raped and had an abortion or just not people who have been raped? Also why not let the kid decide for himself whether he/she wants to live better to let them be born and commit suicide then just kill them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So if sombody commits suicide thats straight to hell right? But if a baby is aborted they go to heaven. Eternal happiness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to play the religeon card ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what religeon are you playing there? I know many people who believe that unborn babies go to hell and also i don't think committing suicide means going to hell for sure.

[Muse]

Muse, I said I debate wherever the debate was. That's what I am doing. :wink: I don't quite agree with the position on emotional harm, but I'll research that for a little while....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:P I was just playin' with ya anyway. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for my position on emotional harm, I *may* be speaking from personal experience :? -and it'd be hard to ever make a fully informed decision I s'pose unless anything like this were to happen to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God forbid. :(

[Muse]

 

 

I cannot see how anyone could say "it is a murder", but then say it is ok. They are innocent babies who did nothing to be killed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even if it means the mother could die as a result of carrying? What happens then if mother dies at 20 weeks of gestation-they both die.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the other 2 reasons stated in my post anyway-emotional harm is just as real as physical harm in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rape and incest are incredibly damaging, traumatic, barbaric acts of hatred. The scars are there for several lifetimes over..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To carry that child could prove emotionally lethal for the mother.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, this is just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would think rape or incest would be much more traumatic for the mother and not the baby. Also if there was a chance the mother could die why kill the baby? (Read the bold in my post again) why does the mother have the right to value her possible harm over the life of another human? Fair 'nuff-however... What if that mother also has 2 more children still young enough to be dependant on her until fully raised. What about them? Should they live out the rest of their childhood without a mother? Also there are alternatives to abortion such as putting the baby up for adoption if you cant live with having a baby cause by being raped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps... until it's happened to you. :?

[Mr_Putter]

Really though, a life is a life. If some mothers of the greatest humans had had abortions (been they available at the time), then we may not be as well off as a species.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, it should be the desicion of the mother, though I would strongly suggest that they not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the other reasons people have said. I'm to lazy to list them, but I agree with them (from the original post).

[Death_By_Pod]

I know that a lot of people will not agree with me but I'm all for the right for women to get abortions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of people who are against it have an emotional attachment to the final product, a fully functioning baby; but in reality it isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t anything yet, not even its organs are developed. It does not even feel pain until connections have formed and the brain turns the system on after 5 months (20weeks) (any lower amounts would be a deceptive estimate, I.E 8 weeks and pain receivers are spread across the body, however they are not even wired).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taking it from a moral point of view:

 

 

 

Even if the child does make it to the world, why do you think the parent wanted to abort the child previously, because it was unwanted? Do you really think that the parents will turn around and suddenly want the child after itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s born? The child would probably be neglected or abused in some cases stunted (physical/mental [developmentally delayed]ation). Sure IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m only talking about a section of the whole here but wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t it be better that no unwanted child be abused and stunted (by giving people the choice to abort) rather then some that do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at it from a world point of view; many children die everyday from disease and starvation, why not fix this vital problem before getting on with more Trivial issues. These children die not from neglect but a vast majority due to poverty and lack of education, when you greedy people sit back and argue over things that they could dream of having the luxury of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AmericanÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s (I assume where this debate is taking place) have complete and utter control over their children until they turn 18. This in itself is a horrible violation of human rights. Some Parents forcefully extradite their ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅbadÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Muse]

I know that a lot of people will not agree with me but I'm all for the right for women to get abortions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of people who are against it have an emotional attachment to the final product, a fully functioning baby; but in reality it isnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t anything yet, not even its organs are developed. It does not even feel pain until connections have formed and the brain turns the system on after 5 months (20weeks) (any lower amounts would be a deceptive estimate, I.E 8 weeks and pain receivers are spread across the body, however they are not even wired).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taking it from a moral point of view:

 

 

 

Even if the child does make it to the world, why do you think the parent wanted to abort the child previously, because it was unwanted? Do you really think that the parents will turn around and suddenly want the child after itÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s born? The child would probably be neglected or abused in some cases stunted (physical/mental [developmentally delayed]ation). Sure IÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢m only talking about a section of the whole here but wouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t it be better that no unwanted child be abused and stunted (by giving people the choice to abort) rather then some that do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at it from a world point of view; many children die everyday from disease and starvation, why not fix this vital problem before getting on with more Trivial issues. These children die not from neglect but a vast majority due to poverty and lack of education, when you greedy people sit back and argue over things that they could dream of having the luxury of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AmericanÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s (I assume where this debate is taking place) have complete and utter control over their children until they turn 18. This in itself is a horrible violation of human rights. Some Parents forcefully extradite their ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬ÅbadÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[doorbell]

 

 

 

Some people upon hearing it is too late to abort will try every trick in the book to make sure it will not come out alive; this in itself is abuse of a child. DonÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t you want to stop this abuse?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also a ban on clinical abortion will not stop illegal abortions. People with enough will; will try any method (no matter how horrendous it is) to get rid of the child. Why do you want to inflict more physical and emotional pain on people who are already undergoing a tough time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is an entirely illogical statement. If we use this model to make our decisions on policy, than nothing would be illegal, b/c there will always be ppl who are willing to break the law, whatever the risk. Take illegal drugs for example. (I will assume that we agree with illegal substances being bad, if someone disagrees I will present evidence.) When drugs were made illegal, ppl would still buy them. Drug dealing and drug trafficking related crimes (shootings, etc...) rapidly increased when certain drugs were made illegal. Did that change the fact that illegal drugs were harmful? Thankfully our leaders were strong enough to battle the flak that they took and stand for what was right. If we used this logic, then robbing banks should be legalized, that way the robbers wouldn't have to use guns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, I would like to see evidence supporting your claims. :)

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

I think I may be ( :shock: ) actually done posting for the time being, so I don't have time to reply to this post in it's entirety, however I'm always surprised when logic such as above in bold is used to prove a point; A ban on clinical abortion (which as I stated am not 100% against) will not stop illegal abortions.

 

 

 

Right.

 

 

 

However, cocaine usage is illegal, as well as drunk driving.

 

 

 

Since people still do it anyway, should we just legalize it once again?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No I'm saying that any law against abortion will be in vain because it will still happen. An abortion may be more convert compared to drink driving and drug use. Can you tell someone has had an abortion within the first few months? It is more difficult to tell and therefore a lot more difficult to enforce. How the hell will you be able to convict someone of abortion when the evidence is long gone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may say well drug use and drink driving may still happen; to that I say sure it may happen but it is a lot easier for them to be caught. It's a lot like those anti-sodomy laws in Texas (Please correct me here if I'm wrong but I donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t know much about American laws) people still obtain items to get around this law (like drug dealing) but this is done in a convert way (much like abortion) how many people do you think get caught for possession of a object for sodomy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is trivial laws that slow down bureaucracy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A murder and punching someone are two different things, they get treated differently so donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t go using logic that involve crimes of a higher magnitude then abortion. Abortion is not a murder; it is a human right.

[Evil_Elf]

I think its wrong, no matter what the circumstances.

[Lionheart_0]

Hem hem (ignores no flaming sign)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*sings* "oh where is my searchy, my shearchy, my searchy? Oh where is my searchy buuuutttonn"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm my littel song there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=126 ... t=abortion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

also if you look closly, even withought the flaming, it still gets us no where. No one changes opionons... and there isnt much tot hink about except to yell at other people to change there opions...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is nonesense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh on topic: abortion is bad except in extream, and i eman extream situations.

[Mercifull]

I think its wrong, no matter what the circumstances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not even for example.... if the mother is 5 years old?

 

 

 

http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp

 

 

 

Would abortion been appropriate here? This girl and her child had to grow up together with just 5 years between them.

[sonsie]

Case to case...

 

 

 

Still reacon most young teenage mothers should receive a boot the the stomach... (Abortions not a literal kick...)

[Pyro]

What gives me the right to say a pregnant woman cannot have abortion? What gives any of you the right to say a pregnant woman cannot have an abortion? It conflicts with you religious views? Too bad, I heard church and politics were supposed to be seperate. I refuse to believe that in an early stage pregnancy, the baby has any kind of self awareness whatsoever. We cannot outlaw everything we do not like. If it does not hurt society or it's people, it should never be made a crime.

[doorbell]

Who gave Abraham Lincoln (or an other abolishinist) the right so say that slavery was wrong?

[Mercifull]

Who gave Abraham Lincoln (or an other abolishinist) the right so say that slavery was wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Comparing abortion to slavery is like comparing chalk and cheese. Two completely different things.

[doorbell]

Not really.

 

 

 

White 'supremists' thought that blacks were less than human, and therefore their's to do whatever they pleased with.

 

 

 

Abortion supporters think that unborn beings are less than human, and therefore their's to do whatever they please with.

[Evil_Elf]

 

I think its wrong, no matter what the circumstances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not even for example.... if the mother is 5 years old?

 

 

 

http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp

 

 

 

Would abortion been appropriate here? This girl and her child had to grow up together with just 5 years between them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I said no matter what the circumstances, and that would count as a "circumstance."

[JohnnySmum]

I think it's wrong. Does the fact that the baby hasn't been born yet make it acceptible to kill it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing short of murder in my opinion. As soon as the sperm meets the egg, you've got all the genetic material to make a person, and from then on, it's wrong to abort.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only exception is if the mother's life would be placed in jeopardy if she continued the pregnancy. Even if a rape results in pregnancy, the woman could always put the baby up for adoption.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You wouldn't like it if your parents had murdered you.

[Pyro]

Not really.

 

 

 

White 'supremists' thought that blacks were less than human, and therefore their's to do whatever they pleased with.

 

 

 

Abortion supporters think that unborn beings are less than human, and therefore their's to do whatever they please with.

Irelevant. Societies all over the world consider parents to be in full charge of their offspring. Slavery cannot be compared to it at all. Whether or not it is moral, unborn beings are less than human in terms of rights, like it or not.

[doorbell]

 

Not really.

 

 

 

White 'supremists' thought that blacks were less than human, and therefore their's to do whatever they pleased with.

 

 

 

Abortion supporters think that unborn beings are less than human, and therefore their's to do whatever they please with.

Irelevant.

I'm not sure that you showed how.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Societies all over the world consider parents to be in full charge of their offspring.

To a degree, yes. Many societies consider abusing/killing your children as unacceptable. Even America does.

 

 

 

Slavery cannot be compared to it at all.

You still haven't said why not.

 

 

 

Whether or not it is moral, unborn beings are less than human in terms of rights, like it or not.

 

 

 

In most countries, yes, but the purpose of this debate is to determine whether or not they should have less rights, not if they do.

[Romeoteddybear]

I guess everyone has opinions of what is life, or what does it mean to be alive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally believe abortion should be legal, and that the US system for it (you cannot abort once your in the 3rd trimester) is perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never believed in the illegalization of anything, or restrictions. Partially because it doesn't work that well at all. If we did legalize it, we'd be able to tax the hell out of it like we're doing with cigarrettes plus there would be more governmental control over it.