compfreak847

YAY! my secret item isn't there (basically because it gives profit if bought at min or around min)! Barrows or whatever great 'secret item' it is generally aren't that good, you can't afford many at a time and they buy incredibly slowly (who wants to do 200 alchs a day, even if they do make an insignificant profit? Your overall XP and profit are really slow because of the hassle.) Well I don't mind getting xp and gp, so I usually do only ~100 alchs per day, because magic level is too high to be my #1 priority. But by doing such small quantities, your wasting time and money setting up; you'd earn much more GP\XP if you just did 1k+ alchs every now and then.

YAY! my secret item isn't there (basically because it gives profit if bought at min or around min)! Barrows or whatever great 'secret item' it is generally aren't that good, you can't afford many at a time and they buy incredibly slowly (who wants to do 200 alchs a day, even if they do make an insignificant profit? Your overall XP and profit are really slow because of the hassle.)

http://www.scape-xp.com/runescape-high-alchemy.html

I think that's how Jagex intended it, though. Look at regular combat, with standard weapons - you would never get a kill! Putting karils\verac helm\dfs\verac skirt means you can rarely be hit by melee, mage, or range - it's virtually all zeros\splashes. With all the obstacles, fog patches, and very short holding times, it would be essentially impossible to score a kill - making for very boring PKing. Now it's very high damage rates, so you better be thinking fast and knowing which obstacle your running for to avoid being killed. Good point ;) I mostly post to say 'yes, I agree with some of your post, but I think this might be different, not 'wow, your 100% right in every way!'. If I disagree with someone, it means I have a different opinion. And it means my opinion is contrary to theirs - and I will be posting from the viewpoint of me being right and them being wrong. That's what a debate is, not two people saying 'yeah, I think your totally right!'

-.- Why is it me and owl can never have a debate without a name-calling free for all :| Anyway, in my opinion, none of the 3 combat styles are significantly overpowered in SC; they all balance out fairly evenly. Jagex has obviously leaned towards the offensive side with them, and magic holding spells have been severely nerfed, but overall they are quite balanced - a maxed meleer is very, very powerful offensively but can easily be thwarted by running around obstacles; a mage is good at freezing, but can't deal nearly as much damage per minute. Range is the weaker skill, but attacking from afar is a huge advantage; simply climbing over a wall can't permanently lose him. In the end, the mage really has the advantage offensively, but suffers from the setback of not being able to weild his 'weapon' (runes), making him an easy target for pickpocketers, and forcing him to keep a sharp eye out. In the end, I think Jagex balanced the 3 combat styles very well in SC, with no styles significantly overpowered or underpowered (with the possible exception of range). I love debating, someone feel free to reply saying that mage\melee\range is overpowered because they can do X. But please, keep it civil and... pay attention to what I say

So it's a fair fight between a mager, a meleer, and a ranger? Explain the overpowered part to me, please.

To which combat style, exactly, are you referring to as overpowered? Which one do you think should be nerfed? I personally think that they are all fairly equal, meaning they are fine as they are.

31 pages until someone noticed :-w Yes! I am winner! :mrgreen: Guess that just goes to show how many ignorant arguments are made by being "quick to jump the gun." Most people don't like reading big, long walls of text :lol: Then like you said they shouldn't post. If someone can't take the time to read an entire statement, then they obviously can't take the time to write an educated argument. Probably the main reason why I tend to stay away from debates or anything of the sort. The only problem is that they never get to the part where I say not to post if they haven't read the whole thing :wall: Its common, someone reads a title and assumes something. If you could moderate you're own thread you could just edit their post and make it "Invalid Answer." :lol: That's probably the reason I'm not a mod :-w

Shall we go back to the definition of overpowered? It means that it is unbalanced due to being better then every other of its kind. Is melee the best combat style in SC? Mabye, depends on how you play. Is range? Mabye. Is Mage? Mabye. Each one has its ups and downs, but none has any clear advantage, leaving them equally powerful, NOT overpowered. Powerful? Yes. Overpowered? No. Pray tell when the dictionary definition has become 'bogus figures', perhaps I missed the memo.

Do you know anything about probability? Say your rolling a 20 sided die. If you roll it 10 times, you'll get a seemingly random assortment of numbers. If you roll it 100 million times, you will get each number 5.000000% of the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability It's taught in every basic collage stats class. View that page for a refresher. That's not how it works. You should theoretically get each number the same amount of times but you almost never do. It's like someone saying a drop rate for something, say for a whip: 1/400, theoretically you should get one in 400 kills but it's random, I could get 5 within 10 kills. True, but when the range is large enough, statistical variance becomes small enough to be a non issue. You might get 5 in 10 kills, but if you kill 400 billion demons, you'll get 1 billion whips, give or take a few thousand - accurate to many decimal points. In the same sense, if you do 500 tasks, you will average out to roughly equal - and if everyone in RS does 500, it will be almost perfectly equal.

I just proved it wasn't overpowered, why do people have to admit to being wrong then try and force their point? -.- As I said before, all combat styles are very powerful in SC, making it easy to score kills - much the opposite from typic PVP, which goes something like 0-0-0-0-0-15-0-0 *run to safety*. However, Jagex did a great balancing job with them, making the game fairly fun and enjoyable, with none of the combat styles having an obvious advantage and being overpowered.

31 pages until someone noticed :-w Yes! I am winner! :mrgreen: Guess that just goes to show how many ignorant arguments are made by being "quick to jump the gun." Most people don't like reading big, long walls of text :lol: Then like you said they shouldn't post. If someone can't take the time to read an entire statement, then they obviously can't take the time to write an educated argument. Probably the main reason why I tend to stay away from debates or anything of the sort. The only problem is that they never get to the part where I say not to post if they haven't read the whole thing :wall:

Definitions of "overpowered" If everything is overpowered, nothing is overpowered. It just means it's easy to die, and thus DANGEROUS. Exactly what Jagex was aiming for.

I got my full void back in a day, it isn't bad :P

Do you know anything about probability? Say your rolling a 20 sided die. If you roll it 10 times, you'll get a seemingly random assortment of numbers. If you roll it 100 million times, you will get each number 5.000000% of the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability It's taught in every basic collage stats class. View that page for a refresher.

31 pages until someone noticed :-w Yes! I am winner! :mrgreen: Guess that just goes to show how many ignorant arguments are made by being "quick to jump the gun." Most people don't like reading big, long walls of text :lol:

I mathematically proved it in a thread over in H&A, it's worth getting on any monster with fairly low defence like Avansies\all training monsters. It's also helpful after 99, so I would recommend getting it.

I did it with 47 agility, failed ~3 times =D>

31 pages until someone noticed :-w

*ahem*. Ahrims = +30 magic for the top, +22 for the bottom. The defence in my setup is similar to the defence of a veracs setup, and much greater then rune. Meleers will be out hit by mage nearly 5 to 1, as the meleer is very rarely able to attack, is attacking at 1/2 speed and -35% attack, and is being healed on and poisoned for the majority of the time. Magic is overpowered, and IMO should be nerfed.

Tested chivalry with a +8 prayer bonus. 80 points drained in 94 seconds, for 1.175 seconds per point \ .85 points per second, which isn't in line with my calculated values. So I tested it again, with 0 prayer bonus. Results: 50 points in 49 seconds, for roughly 1 second per point, or 2 seconds per 2 points, a 1/3rd slower drain then piety, indicating that the wiki numbers for Chivalry were wrong. However, piety offers roughly 1/5th higher bonus in every stat over chivalry, showing that for virtually all situations where chivalry is worth using piety is better.

I can see your point, but I still think the levels of 90-99 Slayer is worth more then combat experience after 99. Yes Zombie Monkies give more combat experience per hour, but they are under no circumstances better. You go on about efficiency, the negligible experience increase at the Monkies is not worth the loss of 245k per hour. I'm not quite sure you know what significant means. 10 seconds loss out of 3600 anything but significant. Say on a task of Dust Devils where you get 108k melee experience per hour. That 10 seconds would results in the loss of approximately 300 experience. Do not forget that is under the assumption that your character isn't attacking anything for that period of time. Also there might be a misunderstanding about the word "large". Turning private chat off gets a large increase? That is incredibly doubtful. While you are typing, that doesn't mean your character stops what it is doing. It continues to attack. Even if the NPCs are unagressive, it quite easily possible to stop typing for 2 seconds and click a new NPC and then continue typing. Again this is brought back to efficiency. If you actually receive a "large" loss from simply talking to friends, I would state that it clearly shows how inefficient you are. I must be having trouble understanding what it is you are saying about the experience outside of Slayer. Unless you are not referring to it in the way I described in my previous post. I'll bring it back to efficiency, using only your numbers given, I can prove how you contradicted yourself and that you are wrong here. Range as you say gets 160k experience per hour at 0 cost? You then Say melee gets 103k experience at 190k profit. For Range to get the same amount of experience as melee takes only 38.625 minutes. You therefore have 21.375 minutes to make back the 190k. 190,000/0.35625 = 533,333.3gp. Since according to you this rate cannot be attained by the average person, doesn't that make it less efficient to get range compared to melee? More importantly, there is another aspect you have forgotten. Melee has two skills to raise (Attack and Strength), as well as Defence really since nearly all players train their Defence with melee. Does that not infer that Melee experience is also more important than Range? 850k/h is possible, but that does not make it fair. As far as I know, the average player cannot attain those rates. If you read through the thread I have not been talking about me. I already know that every aspect of Slayer is better than other methods and I use prayer during tasks as well as a cannon as it is more efficient for me to use it than not. I also have over 91 Runecrafting, but that is also not the only method I can use to make money. No point telling me the average player does not have maxed melees, you'll never find me saying they do. I have been arguing that point throughout the thread actually. If you read through my calculations you'll find the 200 "crimsons worth" is not needed. I had already incorporated that in. I used the average crimson to be worth 350 experience. For every one of those you get, on average you get 0.5 gold, 0.2 green, and about 0.034 blue (hard to put a number on blue). I incorporated that in to make the average experience per crimson charm to be about 457, 107 higher. That is why it said it required over 14k crimsons to get that much experience, and then the amount dropped to 11k. The other charms are worth approximately 3k crimsons. You missed my point. There are two skills to level to 99 melee, requiring twice the XP. Therefore, it takes twice as long to get 99 melee as 99 range at the same XP rates, and the rates for melee are halved to make an equal comparison. As for chatting, 10 seconds per chat means I'm absorbed in that chat - I'm not stopping typing in the middle of a message, and I frequently kill the monster in under 10 seconds. If I'm constantly messaging people, as at any given time I can be PMing over 10 people at once, it results in a big hit to my melee XP - especially since I tend to prioritize chat so I can respond before messages go off the screen.

Blessed on Entrana, right? The OP in the RS thread said that blessing fixed his problem (the exact one you described), and again related in http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:IlI60AL5IVAJ:runescape.salmoneus.net/forums/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D210039%26mode%3Dlinear+Dessous+%22you+will+never+defeat+me+mortal%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

Update: Test performed. Results (with 0 pray bonus): 30 prayer points drained in 46 seconds, with a timer accurate to +\- 1 second (doesn't take anything too accurate here :P ). 1 point per 1.53 seconds, or 2 per 3.06 - a variance easily allowable in our give or take 1 second timer. Conclusion: Piety is 2 points every 3 seconds, Rune Wiki is correct, RuneHQ has their numbers wrong (by a factor of 2, no less :? ), my calculations are verified :

Himm. That page is listing piety as 1 point per 3 seconds drain, http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Prayer is listing it as 2 points per 3 seconds. We have conflicting information, folks. Hang on, I'll test this in game.