compfreak847

Just to clear up something. You seem to think that I want to continue debating with you. This isn't the case. Thanks, E. Then why are you pretending to have responded to my posts? One posts you say 'I responded, your wrong, your refusing to respond to mine' then the next post you say 'I don't want to debate'. Point out the page number where you 'responded' to my post on page 10, or stop yammering about how you've already responded to it. Wow, a lot of responds :?

Feel free to point out the page number where you responded to my latest argument as posted on Page 10. I would be glad to continue the argument. As for spamming, I can include whatever I want along with legitimate post responding to you, including 2 lines of text near the beginning about my post count.

Yeah, didn't even realize I hit that :lol: Don't pay much attention to it besides the biggies like 1k. Anyway, I do seem to remember arguing with you about mage - Yes, quite a few people are disillusioned due to improper usage, as evidenced by this thread :? Hopefully I can convince a few of them otherwise... @Elusefelier: Are you giving up and spamming, or what? Don't let my argument fade into the static then come back in 5 pages proclaiming about how you proved me wrong =D>

That's beyond the point though. Not everyone can make 8M in the time it takes to get a torso. Honestly, I strongly advise getting a torso, that Strenght bonus always helps in a tight situation during slayer. Wonderful. Explain how answer the OP's question is 'beyond the point'. Unfortunately, the torso is NOT worth getting. That's an indisputable fact. Is the torso a good piece of armor? That's another discussion entirely. The answer to the OP's question, however, is no.

As a response to this and the previous post, I will mention again - I have seen NO response to my magic tactics. Currently, I use magic to cripple the meleer and easily kill him if he's wearing metal armor; should he be foolish enough to switch to range, I can easily whip him to death with a 3 to 1 hit advantage + higher defence. I have yet to see your response to this. Once you type one, the debate can continue. Until then, don't bother posting about how you don't want to debate and 'feel' I'm wrong with no actual facts to back up your statements. EDIT: I did. Pray tell, where is the statement that says 'thou shalt not disagree with the original poster's point of view'?

Do you know what personal attacks are? Hint: It's not telling someone else they are wrong. It's pointlessly flaming them with name calling and insults not accurate or relevant to the discussion. This is not a 'circular' debate; this isn't even a debate! It's me posting a series of arguments, and you whining continuously about how you don't want to debate and how I should get off your thread. You have a right to your opinion; but I have a right to voice mine. You don't need to post every time after me saying 'wahh, you can't post on my thread, i don't want to argue with you'. I'm saying your wrong for X, Y, and Z reasons - your saying 'i don't want to debate with you!!!'. You don't have to respond to my arguments, but you certainly don't have to constantly post telling me not to say anything you don't agree with yet refusing to voice what you DO agree with. I fully intend to dispute and argue with every single post I don't agree with on this thread, and it's something I CAN do. It's not something your going to change by telling me you don't want to debate. If you don't want to debate, DON'T POST!

Answer: NO! It's a huge waste of time, money, and XP. Those facts cannot be disputed. You lost me there. Waste of money? Where? I think BA doesn't imply wasting any cash at all. All you need is your every day armour... :roll: and if anyone likes BA, like me, Torso is indeed worth getting, not making it at all a waste of time :D Worth getting. As in, is it worth the time taken to get. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost Read up on it. Adamant chainbody will save him 10m+ in opportunity time - or XP, or time, or whateve ryou want. You can make more money with the Strenght bonus. Nuff' said. :-w Your wrong. You must have missed my post a few months back that proved an adamant chainbody resulted in roughly 8m profit over a fighter torso. Ask anyone who read it. I read it myself. I keep my opinion though. Torso > Adamant Chainbody. That's nice, everyone has an opinion. Unfortunately, this isn't an opinion based subject. He's asking if it's worth getting; the fact is that it is NOT. If you like BA you can get it; but it's not worth getting. Get yourself an adamant chainbody and enjoy the 8m+ advantage you have over anyone with a torso.

I covered defence, prayer, melee weapons, and armor. Pray tell what else? Thanks for responding to my post by the way, it's nice how you make such logical arguments. :roll: Not like you would have a clue about skill, or that it can be proved, but many players around these forms DO know that I spent a lot of time in PVP. I love your logic, too :roll: . You haven't covered any of them, actually, but I guess that's your warped sense of things that's speaking. Thank you for responding to my post, nice to see such solid thought processes at work. ^ See what I did there? Personal attacks really aren't the way to go because I can do them too and they don't get you anywhere. You haven't made an inch of progress towards disproving me. As I said, I won't argue with you. We live in two very different worlds. Amazing. You continuously post with 'wow, your wrong, your an idiot, you didn't respond to my post completely'. Yet you refuse to respond to any of my points on the grounds that 'I'm not going to argue with you, your in a different world'. Look, there's nothing wrong with a debate. Don't be scared of it. If you actually argued and made a point for yourself, this thread could turn into something meaningful. If you just stand by and bash my posts without responding to any of my points your only going to make yourself look bad and get this thread locked.

I covered defence, prayer, melee weapons, and armor. Pray tell what else? Thanks for responding to my post by the way, it's nice how you make such logical arguments. :roll: Not like you would have a clue about skill, or that it can be proved, but many players around these forms DO know that I spent a lot of time in PVP.

You really don't read responses, do you. Already mentioned round about page 5 or so that a super set doesn't count at the 15%; dropping them 20% from the super set + 15% below normal = 35%. As to the 'put on karils', fine, they are welcome to do that. I'll put on a whip and calmly proceed to slaughter them with higher slash defence then them while they are poisoned and way behind on damage with 35% lower attack and half the sped; I'll be outhitting them 3 to 1. Not really. The bad side is that mage is so overpowered; the good side is that most people don't know how to use it and think it is underpowered. So it's unbalanced for the few people who know how to use it, but fairly weak for those who don't. Neither of those will ever touch me. The meleer cannot hit me without putting on d hide; with hit and run, he will never get within 5 squares of me.

Just answer this question. How can the meleer win, when he NEVER gets a chance to hit the mage ONCE. Well, y'know, there's this WONDERFUL spell known as shadow barrage, with the AMAZING ability to lower attack by 15%! Enjoy the enlightenment. As for beating the meleer, the meleer with his 74 combat stats is going to find himself in a bit of trouble, seeings that he can never get within 5 squares of the mager, much less actually hit him. Perhaps you could explain how the meleer is going to win without ever touching his opponent, who is decimating with high hitting, accurate attacks that heal himself? :roll:

Yes. Dont play BA for a torso, play it for fun and use points to get a torso. Answer: NO! It's a huge waste of time, money, and XP. Those facts cannot be disputed. You lost me there. Waste of money? Where? I think BA doesn't imply wasting any cash at all. All you need is your every day armour... :roll: and if anyone likes BA, like me, Torso is indeed worth getting, not making it at all a waste of time :D Worth getting. As in, is it worth the time taken to get. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost Read up on it. Adamant chainbody will save him 10m+ in opportunity time - or XP, or time, or whateve ryou want. You can make more money with the Strenght bonus. Nuff' said. :-w Your wrong. You must have missed my post a few months back that proved an adamant chainbody resulted in roughly 8m profit over a fighter torso. Ask anyone who read it.

I <3 you too compfreak, :). :P I'll agree with your post if you find a way to counter that, based on the fact that the meleer never touches the mage and the mage is continuously healing and hitting 60+ in a single shot with unbelievable accuracy ;)

Untrue. Party hats don't symbolize how long you've played - I could buy one right now for a few hundred mill, and I wasn't around when they were dropped. What they DO do is give whoever was around then a HUGE advantage over someone who just joined today - a newb could have picked a few off the ground (I've seen a screenshot of 51 blues when they were dropped) and be set for life because of it.

nachalo PROBLEM: Huge, huge, huge influx of gee pee into the economy. Vast inflation would insure. These items are unbelievably valuable - players have billions of GP worth. That much GP being thrown into the economy, with no new items to back it up, would be very similar to the US stimulus package. I do, however, wholeheartedly agree with the 'delete them' idea - or better yet, simply make them untradable. No 30 day warning window, just a shift from tradable to non tradable like every other holiday item. konets

I respectfully disagree with you, Compfreak. But you already know this, and it's fairly clear that you and I have vastly contrasting perspectives on in-game mechanics. Mages should be able to cast much much faster, hit harder, and have readily accessible attacks and specials to decimate melee in F2P and PvP, exactly the way rangers own mages. Our views, I'm afraid, will never be the same on this issue, so you really shouldn't bother addressing my posts, and I won't bother addressing yours. It seems our notions of logic are different. That does not mean we cannot continue discussing this. I have outlined my points - a mage can freeze, halve attack speeds, lower attacks by 35%, poison, and then proceed to heal off of the meleer, dealing 100+ damage and healing 25+ for every hit the meleer gets on him - and a skilled mage should NEVER get hit. I don't see how that's 'underpowered'; the meleer never even gets a chance to hit!

Aye I dont want to just stand there with dhide on any ideas on activities I could do? Anything. That. Results. In. You. Being. Outside. Of. A. Safe. Zone. For. One. Minute. Or. More.

Yes. Dont play BA for a torso, play it for fun and use points to get a torso. Answer: NO! It's a huge waste of time, money, and XP. Those facts cannot be disputed. You lost me there. Waste of money? Where? I think BA doesn't imply wasting any cash at all. All you need is your every day armour... :roll: and if anyone likes BA, like me, Torso is indeed worth getting, not making it at all a waste of time :D Worth getting. As in, is it worth the time taken to get. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost Read up on it. Adamant chainbody will save him 10m+ in opportunity time - or XP, or time, or whateve ryou want.

They should have made magic defence much, much higher. D hide is pathetic against mage; it's very, very easy to hit in good mage gear. Melee, on the other hand, is a tank - you hit what, once in 10 times on barrows? Magic could also do with slowing of spells. That way you couldn't be hitting off insane combos WITH special effects - the spells with effects could have their max hit dropped to. A few nerfs would bring it much more in line with other combat styles, instead of decimating both melee and range as it currently does.

Averages count, not individual tasks. And my averages are correct. So I can make a mathematical comparison and say that armored zombies are indeed worse then slayer - much, much worse, in fact.

It just won't work. There will only be one 'best' weapon - and only that weapon will be used.

Anything not in a safe zone for 1m+...

I did a little chart of the pits, it took less then 10 minutes since everything's in a pattern :P Let me know if you see anything wrong, I didn't check too closely but it *should* be right. The final XP is in the right in red. I added 30 HP healed during pits; only monsters your hitting will heal, and since the majority of them are killed in under a minute, I don't think this is too big of a deal. Unless fight pits monsters heal faster then usual, this should be accurate to within a few dozen XP.

Thumbs down for godsword. SS\D scimmy are faster XP for strength training. I'll take a whip + defender any day for bosses

Who cares? Is ANYONE going to buy a weapon for, say 20k, when a weapon for 30k is 50% faster? No, that's stupid. There can only be one weapon that is the best, and EVERYONE will use that weapon.