Auberean

Good, good. I understand exactly what you're saying now, and I agree for the most part and I think I've discovered our fundamental difference. I think that we don't have the ability to just "disregard". You could see the ice cream, see the rat's tail, and say "Screw it, I'll eat it anyways", but there would have to be an underlying reason why you decided to do what you did. Basically something would have to push you towards disregarding what you normally would do, and that would show that Free Will is indeed circumstantial.

When the first thing an immigrant does is enter America illegally, and gets away with it, it really says little about our legal system. Right now I believe that there are too many programs in place to help illegal immigrants, who don't even pay for them in the first place. I'm not against immigration or diversity in any way, but I believe it's in our best interest to provide a system where all immigrants are forced to enter the country in a legal fashion that doesn't detract from the quality of life of those of us who are already here.

You've got me on the definition of Free Will I provided, I may have given myself less room to wiggle by using that wording. But bear with me here, we may just be interpreting the same idea in our own ways. I think that by not eating the ice cream due to the rat's tail, that event has shaped your opinion in a major way. Sure, you make the choice to not eat the ice cream, but you only made that choice in relation to what has happened to you. If there was no rat's tail, you would have continued on and eaten the ice cream. Doesn't that show that your Free Will is really dependent on other events, and not on itself?

I think BlueTear is using a computer as more of a medium for conveying his idea, but I'm sure he'll be able to elaborate on that himself. Anyways, I think I understand what you're getting at, but I'm having trouble making a few connections. In the Ice Cream example I still see you as having explained Determinism being stronger than Free Will. You had the choice to eat ice cream, but because of the discovery of a rat's tail, you no longer want to. That event has gotten in the way of your choice and has essentially controlled your final action.

I do like what BlueTear had to say, about how a person is the sum of everything, basically.

That's not exactly what I'm getting at. Sure things happen to people, I'm more interested in the nature of their responses. You say that you have control over certain situations, I'll take one of your examples - death. Say someone close to you dies, a grandmother or something. There are different ways you can choose to react - you could go and comfort her widowed husband, you could quitely grieve to yourself, you could do nothing, lots of different choices. What I want to understand is, do you really have a choice...in what choice you make? Sure, you can "choose" to "do nothing", but that decision may have been influenced by previous events that would lead you to do it. You might "do nothing" because psychologically, that's where your mind has been led to by what happens. Does what I'm getting at make any sense? I can't explain the exact meaning that well.

For this discussion I will be using a rigid definition of Free Will; "The ability to select a course of action as means towards the fulfillment of a desire." Although there are many different interpretations of the phrase, I will be using that to keep my ideas simple. Determinism is, basically, the idea that "every event is necessitated by previous events and conditions." If you're still with me, you may have noticed something; those ideas don't always play nice. In my mind, each idea is the complete opposite of the other. Free Will tends to imply that each person is in control of his or her own destiny. There is no such thing as fate, or a Higher Being controlling your actions, only you have the power to influence your own decisions. Determinism throws all notion of free will out the window in saying that you really only have the illusion of a chooice, and really you're following a path which is being forged by your resultant character or psychological state. Or at least, that's what I've gathered in my own mind. I'm going to have to take the side of Determinism at the moment. I believe that every choice we make is influenced by past events or genetic dispositions. But that's just me, and the idea I've formed after viewing a very small scope of information. What I want to know is - what do you think of all this? Do you believe in free will, or determinism, or fate, or God, or what? There is much more to this topic than what I've brought to the table and I'd encourage anyone who knows a little on the subject to speak up. Try not to be too pushy with your opinion, as I don't believe there's one "correct" answer to everything, but you're welcome to try to convince me otherwise if you'd really like to. And please, don't run around left and right quoting Wikipedia entries, I want to know what you think, not some philosophers.

You're taking Geometry and Calculus? Here, Calculus is 3 levels above Geometry. Weird.

that what i thought when i took all APs my senoir year... man was i wrong. Never had so much hw in my life #-o I'm going to start working Senior year, too. Hope things work out :shock:

LP - What kind of high school do you go to?

It's really not that bad, just tough it out. Taking aspirin doesn't seem to help most people.

AP Government AP Economics AP English Lit Latin 3-4 AP Physics AP Art History Math Analysis (Trig/Calculus) AP really isn't a big deal, don't worry about it too much. Just one year of this stuff left...

Wishful thinking.

In a young girl's heart... Sorry. Continue.

If it makes you feel any better, so did I, so you're not alone. That feeling came back after I watched the Matrix a couple of years ago. That's kinda...creepy and self-centered?

Time fast-forwarded while I slept.

I was expecting something more like Anchorman, so it was pretty disapointing. Although, I did enjoy the "What, is that a catch-phrase or epilepsy?" and how Bobby lives his whole life off of his father's advice, which was said while he was...yeah. And of course, "Alright, we gotta cut around the meat!"

Magic? I'd rather have understanding.

Getting out and performing extra activities will give you a greater education than school ever will.

Ventrilo is what you want.

I'll have to keep my eye on this :)

Nope :)

The world tends to unfold as it should, it's a beautiful arrangement. Don't make me pissed. It's not my fault large bodies of text scare people. I mean that even though people don't pay attention to you, it's okay because they're the ones that are missing out.

Well, I'm sorry that we weren't able to reach some kind of understanding. The world tends to unfold as it should, it's a beautiful arrangement.

I did bring something to this post, talking about how numbers can be used for any means. You then quoted me, telling me that I need to learn how to read. So, I responded, pointing out that I was arguing a different point, and that you blatantly contradicted yourself in two consecutive posts. I'm not trying to flame you, but please try to keep your mind open to other people's ideas, and please try to keep your arguments a little more civil. I don't like being called irritating and a moron when I'm only trying to make clear my point.