Zygimantas

You could care less? You must care quite a bit then :P OT: I wasn't planning too... but all the lights seem to be off anyway :D

No, because I still got about an hour till 8:30 =P

Heres the thing though, many religious people don't stop there. If you want to have a spiritual personal voyage on your own, thats fine. I love that idea. I love the idea of a person connecting himself to the universe and finding a meaning in his life. What I don't love is people who insist that this idea is correct. For example, I'm a huge fan of meditation and I believe that it has changed my life for the better. But, the science of meditation is totally not convincing. Do I go around telling people that meditation is the only way to live well? No. I know it is the key to ME living well, but other people feel differently. I also find great happiness in the sport of weight lifting. It is one of the few activities that really let me work out some frustration and do something in solitude. Is it for everyone? No. But religious people always tell me they KNOW that THEIR religion is the only way to God and that people need to join their side. Also, I have a big problem with people raising their children to believe in some particular something. Religion and spirituality are an entirel personal journey and I firmly believe that it is a bad idea to have a child of 2 years old and call him a "Christian". Would you call this child a Rebublican? A libertarian? How can you possibly say that somebody has developed a view about the cosmos when they don't even understand how to read yet? I don't think people should force their beliefs/ideas on others either. There are religious people who like to try and convert others, but then there are also atheist people who try to pull people away from religion. Some of my good friends are christian, and they know that I am an Atheist. They don't preach to me about a higher-power and religion and I don't preach to them my ideas either. Sometimes we may have conversations about religion, but it never seems to change our friendship. But yes, problems do arise when people take their opinion as fact and try to force it on others, it just isn't something only done by religious people and many times people may force ideas that don't have anything to do with religion. In general, I love it when people can be accepting of other people's beliefs. I was baptized as a catholic when I was only about a year old, and I don't think I even really started to understand Christianity until I was about 11 years old ( and I am still not an expert on that religion). I understand that it was part of my parents beliefs to baptize me and I really don't mind because I don't believe in it. Also, I don't mind if I was called a catholic, because I don't think it changed anything. Its fine for parents to teach their children about their culture and religion, but they should also allow them to explore other cultures and religions as well.

I dont necessarily see a problem with religion in the ideal sense, but I see a problem with the way that religion is currently implemented. I don't think that stubborn belief about events actually transpiring in reality is a good thing. I don't think anyone should believe that man was poofed into existence by an intelligent creator. Nor that Earth, the Sun, the universe, etc was poofed into existence by an intelligent creator. A few hundred years ago, people thought it was necessary to believe that man was created by God. People said "The only way religion can function is if we were created by Him!" Now, even the Vatican accepts the fact that evolution is responsible for all life on Earth. The Vatican has even gone so far as to announce that the existence of extra terrestrial life would not destroy Catholocism. Wake up people! You don't need to believe ANYTHING about reality in order to belong to a system of belief. You don't need to believe in a soul, you don't need to believe in an after life, you don't need to believe God created man, you don't need to believe God created the universe. You don't even need to believe a God exists. What religion does for man is gives him a way to feel thankful for the life he has been given, and unite him with those around him who share common views about morality. Hell, if religion wasn't so damned intwined with some stupid belief about making claims about physical things that happened, I would be fully eager to call myself religious. But I just can't get past the fact that so many people think that belief about the cosmos is somehow necessary for us to get together and celebrate the life we live. Zygimantas...what do you think about that? I don't disagree with you. I just don't seem to mind as much as you do. If one man thinks his life is a gift from a higher power then thats fine. He has the right to think what he wants, maybe this belief will allow him to enjoy his life more than many other people can. Then there could also be an atheist who doesn't believe in a higher power but also makes the most out of his life and enjoys the time that he has. There might be a Buddhist who spends most of his life meditating trying to find peace in himself and others.It's just life and we all experience it differently. Variety in human thoughts and beliefs is limitless, but it's ok. Some beliefs may seem evil and to others they may seem good. Variety is the spice of life... and I don't mind.

Yea... and I still don't see a problem with religion, as was my attitude at the beginning of the thread :P

Wouldn't we all be sons/daughters of god?

Maybe the primary objective for the westerners should be to help and take down/capture gaddafi? It seems like the fighting would slow down and ultimately cost less lives if him and his family are out of the picture...

For 5 seconds, then you're a corpse along with your family. Sorry but you're delusional. They're not taking pride in the fact that they killed a human being, no they're happy that they stopped one more soldier who has no qualms about killing anyone for money. This wont stop until Gadafii is dead; no matter what you think about how the world works he wont come down and sign Kumbaya. Maybe in the short term it may seem like a bad idea. But in the long term a group of people refusing to kill is a much great message then a group of people killing and it has a better impact on the world as a whole. Either way, sometimes as a last resort war may need to occur... And they are taking pride in that, just look at the videos, many of them want to kill people as much as the other side does.

Yesterday a number of people in Misrata decided to do just that. Wanna know what happened? 40 dead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfydO-Z-D0M&feature=player_embedded Did you even bother to watch the BBC Panorama video I posted above? Seriously you're all starting to sound like a broken record player. The rebels rejoice in killing Ghadafi's forces and Ghadafi's forces rejoice in killing rebels. Both sides justifying killing for fear of being killed themselves. What is the difference between men being killed while attempting to kill and men being killed while laying down their arms? In the former both sides lose, in the later one side shows more strength then the other and exposes the fear and fragility of the other side. There is no greater courage and strength then to fight without arms while the other side uses them. Alas, maybe sometimes war has to occur but it is not a prideful thing like many of the rebels are going about it. " The death of many should be greeted with great sorrow, and the victory celebration should honor those who have died."

Hmm... why? I've been finding for the past week or so that talking with her feels like a chore rather than something I look forward to her, and I'm also finding it annoying, even when I'm not doing anything else. As wrong as it is of me to do, I've avoided talking with her all day. Yea, breaking up sounds like a good decision then.

Hmm... why?

If only more "rebels" practiced non-violent resistance...

^ My thoughts. Those humans and their obsession with killing each other :P

You're not taking any sciences..? Ha. Mywepons and his science :P

You achieved your goal nonetheless. Congratulations :D

So everyone is free to just think whatever the hell they want to think about reality. Okay, great. Pretty much. I don't know why one would restrict free thought. I mean its fine that you want people to side with you, but it doesn't mean you have to be against people who don't.

Do you also feel this way about other unknown information about the physical world? What causes the force of gravity? Cause I'm going to claim that it is tiny tiny men who have telekinetic powers. Nobody knows so theres no problem with my claim. I might not think your claim is right, but I don't see a problem with it.

Life :)

The winter storm in the US wasn't too bad-- at least where I live. It just rained a lot and -4C temperatures froze the water. Luckily it was also very windy, so the majority of the water dried off the roads. There were some snow flurries, but none of it really stuck to the ground. I was on the periphery of the storm by the way. Not too far away from where I live, the storm was severe. We had the 3rd largest blizzard in history here. ( Chicago)

Why not just attempt to fly from the ground up?

When there is no one left to perceive ten we cease to exist. The laws don't cease to exist. NOTHING ceases to exist until it "dies"--whether it be humans or a star above. everything stays the same until another big crunch. What separates a human from an animal is that we understand existence and can discern as such. If we die, there will be nothing else to perceive what we cognitively can...but that doesn't mean existence no longer has meaning. Thats a blatant lie, intentional or not. Maybe, per say, YOU die, then your existence no longer means anything in the present moment...but everything else is still there and does exist. Same if all humans die--the earth, the stars, everything still exists and that doesn't devalue the existence simply because we, as humans, can't perceive it. If anything, that's an egocentric way of thinking. Your next statements are also patently absurd and sound like appeals to ignorance. Something can come from nothing and vice versa? No. Absolutely not. Something doesn't have to exist for nothing to exist, that's a contradiction. You know what? I don't understand how you could've posted that last part. Its self contradictory and is an argument that sounds like it comes from a spawn of a beaten philosophical ideal. Like taking Nietzsche's Abyss quote and beating the [cabbage] out of it and posting it up. :/ Yes but what is everything? There is NO value of existence apart from what we perceive. Something doesn't have to exist for nothing to exist? Think about what is nothing, and then you will realize that even that is something. Something is nothing and nothing is something. If we only had nothing than what is happening now wouldn't be happening, and if we only had something then equally nothing would occur, because we need nothing for there to be a something or else something would have always had to be. So it can be that we came from nothing, that was in a way something as well. They are both practically the same thing, except our perceptions make it seem dualistic. [hide] [/hide]

Lol. I love you <3:

The universe is indifferent to what we think because it is not a sentient being. As to it being true to any other type of existence, it would probably have to be on par or the same as our logic if it were, for example, a God because that God would have had to existed with the laws of the universe or be born with the laws of the universe that created them, and if he was here before the laws, that would beg the question as to how he got there, and who created him, creating a never ending paradox and therefore, for lack of a better word, silly. As to other beings we don't know about...that's the problem. We don't know about them, so we can assume their non existence until we find credible evidence to other existences. We can know our logic is true because it is still bound to natural laws around us, humans didn't arbitrarily make up random rules in which logic is bound to, but our universe had laws that logic must be bound to. Gravity, for example. The Laws of physics as another. Again. Logic doesn't need to be proven true or false. Its not something which can be falsified or made truth because it is in tune with the laws of the universe and as such is already bound to be true. Nothing needed to "prove" something so abstract. Edit: Apologies for any bad grammar or syntax errors. Its 3:20 here and I'm anxious about going back to my university tomorrow and therefore can't get to sleep. :P Yes, but how do we know that the laws are what they are? Because of our logic which comes from our perceptions. How do we know that either of those is correct? We don't. Of course you can learn thousands of facts about the universe and read about philosophies and all that, but in the end those might be as false as anything else. We are an object of existence, and we know existence because of our perceptions. But what happens when there is no one left to perceive? Existence becomes basically nothing. Perceptions are what make nothing seem like something. Nothing can come from something and something can come from nothing. Actually for nothing to exists something has to exist, and for something to exist nothing has to exist. Essentially something and nothing are one, because one can not exists without the other. Alas, existence and anything that comes out of it is one. But all of this is plain [cabbage] so... meh :P

Human logic need not be true OR false because humans created logic and therefore are the only beings that can comprehend logic at all. No other being we know of can develop complex thought like us. There is no such thing as any other type of logic, so the "Human Logic" statement is just silly. Its just simply logic because we created a critical way of thinking that would help us to discover the universe as we perceive it. Its a word to describe the process of thinking critically, in other words. Yes, humans created logic. So logic can maybe be considered "true" to humans, but is it true to the universe and existence in general? We can't know with our logic. Since we can't prove the logic is true, because attempting to do so would be using logic anyway. Everything we think of is equally false. Even this post can be considered all false.

They are equal to the next. You can not prove that human logic is true. Therefor any of our thoughts can basically be said to be false. Yes, even that one ;)