walka92

ive owned every godsword over time, and for what i like doing saradomin was my favourite, normally used at godwars, i can stay upwards of 10 hours at sara and bandos zamorak was fun at castlewars and sara godwars bandos and arma were ok for bh/duel arena but not much else

mag, you are impossible to argue with,. not because your arguments are any good, they are quite the opposite, but because you are simply so STUPID you can not answer a simple question with any inteligence. the point wasnt whether you would ubild up the junk but that you already have it and need to sell the "rare" item, using junk you said you would never have junk because you wouldnt bother to accumulate it; which is quite stupid. often when slaying, skilling, anything really you will come across the junk items, and it wastes no time collecting them, so why not? they can be used for junking later. you have repeatedly proven your self to be an idiot as you simply do not understand properly how junking works so stop your redundant arguments and give up NOONE in their right mind would sell an item worth 10m on the ge, and 50m street, for 10m when they have 40m junk. it is simply stupid. they are not scamming, as the people buying are willing to pay the 50m. dont pretend you wouldnt do it, because you WOULD sell the item for 50m. saying you would sell it for 10m is a blatant lie either way, regardless of what you would do, this thread was originally made to stop junking, correct? you havent convinced anyone. you never will. and there will always be other people like you who wish to stop it. you arent original, and you have no infulence. there will always be junk trading as long as the ge prices are wrong. get over it

the sad truth magzar, is that noone will ever buy these junk items. people dont buy useless items unless needed for a quest; and even then its only 1 or 2 at a time. and selling these items at shops, the price drops fast to you bet almost nothing the reason people use junk is it accumulates over time and they jump at an opportunity to offload it. in their eyes, and most others, the junk has no value. it is simply a token to boost a trade valua. the people who buy junked items are not paying for junk, in their eyes, but an item that cant be bought on ge. if you had 30m of junk and got an item that needed junk would you seriously still sell it on the ge, when you have a chance to get rid of junk? if you would sell it on the ge, you are an idiot and if you would sell it with junk you are a hipocrite which is it

i generally dont "ignore" a certain part, and i see merit for all skills....several minigames i am very rarely active in, but i have done every single minigame and spent a decent amount of time on every skill

fally; because i do the pvp 25k trick alot, and fally just happens to be a hotspot. so its the best for me. i dont die anywere else, so getting to a bank quickly to recover items means nothing to me

how about this. instead of arguing. i will say this junk is a mixed blessing. if a person is say, going for 99 summoning and needs to make money to do it, and are 50m off and are impatient, they will want the 50m quickly. during the course of previous fighting and charm collecting, they comehow come up with 40m of junk they cant use, noone wanted and they dont wish to drop. thewy go to tormented demons and get their prize; claws. they then realize just how much junk they have. just enough to sell it on the street price with junk; and therefore have enough money to buy bursts, shards and second ingredients for 99 summoning OP, put yourself in this persons shoes. the junk took you no time to collect; as you spent all the time not hunting junk. if you believe picking up the junk is the profit then look at it this way: the junk has no use. noeone will buy junk but i need the money but people are willing to pay that much for my new drop ill just use it to boost the trade value so i can now get the level i wanted with the extra cash i thought about it. and yes, as you said, all it really is is exchanging something you dont need for something you do. i guess thats what you were saying anyway, but whatever noone in their rightmind would sell claws for ge price and just leave the junk doing nothing in their bank, or drop it. the junk has no real vlue if you cant do anything with it, its useless. you'd have to be stupid not to use the junk to sell claws for mroe, in such a situation. OP. in this situation, what would you do? sell claws+junk for 50m or sell claws for ge price and do nothing with the junk if it is the latter, you are an idiot and pointless to argue with. if you dont agree with junkers, just ignore them and hope to god you never have to deal with them, or man up and pay the street price and not the "monetary value" after this; i cant be bothered posting with this topic anymore. sofar its been comparable arguing with a brick wall.im sick of this.

they need: a better robe set. what they have simply isnt good enough. FOG robes simply arent worth it, as you need to recharge them so often. a better hold spell. maybe the next version of holds [i dont remember which hold has which name :P dont use them enough] maybe a new staff aswell thats about all they can get and still be balanced. if they get wave spell's they would be overpowered in f2p, and that would require blood runes aswell. POSSIBLY give them teleblock.

That's true. But adjusting prices is only half the battle. Consider if the items that are considered "junk" could be converted to gold, and the player sought to buy a rare on the GE. That trade becomes possible, and the item starts to move. The way I see it, adjusting prices is honestly like fighting fire with a cup of coffee. Not so bad for a small hotspot; horrible if you've got a forest fire. Of course just adjusting the prices once to get everything going now with no intention of keeping them updated wouldn't work, but if you get them in the right spot now (meaning that people will start using the GE again) and then follow it up with the end to junk (with the easiest way being the removal of the price floors and dependencies that keep them from dropping to where other players will buy them) and a continuous stream of price updates when they are needed, then you got the whole thing fixed. It's true that adjusting prices is only half the battle, but the battle has to start somewhere. As for Mazgar's incessant belief that junk trading brings no net gain, I have one thing to say (or do, really): #-o How is the selling of something (for more than it's really worth, to boot) that you aren't going to use yourself and you got for free from a monster drop/whatever not profiting? Especially when said item cannot be sold to other players and is worth practically nothing when sold to a shop. You define profit as "an increase of net worth." This is false. http://www.dictionary.com defines profit as, among other things*, an "advantage; gain; benefit." Now, I don't know about you, but I consider selling something I got for free at inflated price people aren't willing to pay an advantage (I sold something not otherwise sellable), a gain (I got something for nothing, overall), and a benefit (I can now use the cash to buy things I actually want. *Some other definitions of profit: "1. Often, profits. a. [monetary] gain resulting from the employment of capital in any transaction. Compare gross profit, net profit. b. the ratio of such [monetary] gain to the amount of capital invested. c. returns, proceeds, or revenue, as from property or investments. 2. the monetary surplus left to a producer or employer after deducting wages, rent, cost of raw materials, etc." Notice the use of the word monetary (it's actually "pecuniary" on dictionary.com, but they mean the same thing and monetary's much more likely to be understood) in these definitions and the lack of the phrase "net worth." you pretty much summed up my arguments more eloquently than i could myself :P so i thank you, acenator.

[hide=] this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW. as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking. let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown walka please read the word i bolded i said i don't believe the G.E. is right and onward profit Definition The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss. selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit for instance say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them thereby gaining you a profit of $2500 due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit now back to the example from earlier say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth 76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better? on your first point, i guess i just misread. tyring to watch simpsons while arguing can cause you to miss things anyway your fatal flaw in that argument, is that you ASSUME if i sold claws on ge for anyprice, that i could buy them back 4 hours later. it would be pretty much impssible to buy the claws back from the ge, EVER, at minimum. there is simply so much demand only the people who get offers in just after the ge updates, and offer at max, will ever get them and you say i make no profit from gather junk. are [bleep] [bleep] stoned? or are you just stupid. its still maknig a profit. they have a value to the ge, and i would in theory use them junk up my claws. how can they not be a profit? because i spend time collecting them? in that case the profit is simply measured in gp/hour. or is it because with junk, the time is spent trying to make the item tradeable via junking, and it is no profit because if i see claws as 50m, i must spend hours and hours getting the junk, which is hours wasted because im simply trying to trade them not make extra money? most likely that, but i instead am simply going to wait till they reach a good price on the ge; they are going up every day. they'll reach a good price someday and ill sell. no time wasted, no money lost, only gained, while i have fun with my claws and lend them when i do come across a bit of junk, using junk to make extra cash but im probably rambling. and i cant be bothered arguing with you anymore. its like shouting at a brick wall. completley devoid of thought and just wont move unless you hit it with a sledge hammer walka profit is defined as an increase in net worth selling an item for it's median price doesn't make a profit, you exchange one medium for another, yet what you have is still worth the same price, and waiting for the price on the g.e doesn't change that either, selling claws worth 10m ge price with 40m in junk is the same as selling claws at 25m ge price with 25m junk you're not making a "net gain" you are simply exchanging goods for exactly their net value in order to make a profit, you must sell items for above their net value which is only a possible gain of 60k in player to player trading and i realize that this is a hypothetical situation because no one uses the g.e. this situation is assuming everyone did and working on ideal conditions, i am fully aware it will NEVER run this smoothly the flaw in your argument is you're thinking that selling the items you gathered constitutes profit take an economics course except the gaining of junk in the first place, isnt a profit? i would have thought gaining something= profit. and if you are fully aware the situation would never run smoothly,THEN WHY DO IT. it is simply stupid if you get a dragon claw drops [still using this example because 1, i did get one, and 2, this is our main example], and already have 30m in junk from say, fletching or monster drops, and automatically sell the claws+junk for 40m, you pretty much already made 40m because the junk has no real value but the claws do. junk has no value, hence the title junk. IN AN IDEAL WORLD there would be no need for junk because the ge would be at the right price. you can either accept that, or shut the hell up about it, let people junk trade and simply stay to items you can afford and dont require junk, or try to get them all as drops yourself. people have a right to charge what ever they want for their own items, because its their. why do you even care about whether those people use some junk left over from activities to get a good price for the item they worked hard for? @mako. just because its not sold doesnt mean the price wont change. jagex can and has in the past changed prices manually to get things moving on certain items. claws move because of jagex helping it, and also a small number of cs'd claws. they arent completley blinded to the problems yes walka the inital picking up of the junk is profit, you hit that on the head, however the practice of trading it in for coins isn't profit it's like trading in pennies for dollar bills, you're getting something more useful, but you're not making a profit so are you going to pick up every penny you see so that you can sell your xbox for $1000 along with $800 worth of pennies? and it would run smoothly if people used the GE merchants do it constantly with items that are traded on the GE and wrong the junk is still worth 30m just because something is useless doesn't mean it has no value there is NO NEED FOR JUNK!!!! period it does not make a profit in any sense [/hide] your analagy of penies for dollar bills is flawed; they are both a part of the same currency system and pennies can be changed for dollars at banks pretty damn easily. the xbox example is also a failure. it may be less stupid if the real world had the same trading limits as runescape, and the pennies for that example were something else such as other old toys. in runescape, people dont use coins as junk, which is what your example was doing. yes. merchants do use the ge for items vtraded on the ge. but once again, you failed becaues junk affects the items people wont trade on ge, not the ones they will. junk is worth nothing. the ge thinks otherwise, but it somply had a price set in for items noone uses, while peole have no demand for it. everyone knows that prices change due to supply and demand junk: there may be supply,. but no demand.without demand it has basically no value. the only demand is as junk. except due to its nature, the item itself has no demand. people wont sell something based on what is junk, unless the person with junk was stupid enough to add a very sellable item for junk [example, whips]. there is a need for junk in the sence that it prevents you from making a huge loss of potential money. i am using my above explanation in this. i have dragon claws. 11m on ge or so. 40-50m on street. if i sold on ge i get 11m. if i wait a few weeks i might be able to sell them for 30m. another few weeks and i may get 40 or 50 but if i sell now and get 11m, i lose upro 39m of potential. and if i chose to sell them for 50m with junk junk items generally have no use. they have no demand for what they can do, so they have no value. i can sell the claws ge and get 11m and amd stuck with my junk i can drop but then i have lost money by losing my junk, but not having the 50m i could have had or i can use junk to sell them for 50m straight away, get rid of junk i otherwise couldnt use, have sold my claws and have 50m to play around with if you do not understand this then your iq is lower than the room temperature here. we use celcius and the air con is on, if you catch my drift you arguments are invalid and foolish. better luck next time

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW. as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking. let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown walka please read the word i bolded i said i don't believe the G.E. is right and onward profit Definition The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss. selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit for instance say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them thereby gaining you a profit of $2500 due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit now back to the example from earlier say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth 76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better? on your first point, i guess i just misread. tyring to watch simpsons while arguing can cause you to miss things anyway your fatal flaw in that argument, is that you ASSUME if i sold claws on ge for anyprice, that i could buy them back 4 hours later. it would be pretty much impssible to buy the claws back from the ge, EVER, at minimum. there is simply so much demand only the people who get offers in just after the ge updates, and offer at max, will ever get them and you say i make no profit from gather junk. are [bleep] [bleep] stoned? or are you just stupid. its still maknig a profit. they have a value to the ge, and i would in theory use them junk up my claws. how can they not be a profit? because i spend time collecting them? in that case the profit is simply measured in gp/hour. or is it because with junk, the time is spent trying to make the item tradeable via junking, and it is no profit because if i see claws as 50m, i must spend hours and hours getting the junk, which is hours wasted because im simply trying to trade them not make extra money? most likely that, but i instead am simply going to wait till they reach a good price on the ge; they are going up every day. they'll reach a good price someday and ill sell. no time wasted, no money lost, only gained, while i have fun with my claws and lend them when i do come across a bit of junk, using junk to make extra cash but im probably rambling. and i cant be bothered arguing with you anymore. its like shouting at a brick wall. completley devoid of thought and just wont move unless you hit it with a sledge hammer walka profit is defined as an increase in net worth selling an item for it's median price doesn't make a profit, you exchange one medium for another, yet what you have is still worth the same price, and waiting for the price on the g.e doesn't change that either, selling claws worth 10m ge price with 40m in junk is the same as selling claws at 25m ge price with 25m junk you're not making a "net gain" you are simply exchanging goods for exactly their net value in order to make a profit, you must sell items for above their net value which is only a possible gain of 60k in player to player trading and i realize that this is a hypothetical situation because no one uses the g.e. this situation is assuming everyone did and working on ideal conditions, i am fully aware it will NEVER run this smoothly the flaw in your argument is you're thinking that selling the items you gathered constitutes profit take an economics course except the gaining of junk in the first place, isnt a profit? i would have thought gaining something= profit. and if you are fully aware the situation would never run smoothly,THEN WHY DO IT. it is simply stupid if you get a dragon claw drops [still using this example because 1, i did get one, and 2, this is our main example], and already have 30m in junk from say, fletching or monster drops, and automatically sell the claws+junk for 40m, you pretty much already made 40m because the junk has no real value but the claws do. junk has no value, hence the title junk. IN AN IDEAL WORLD there would be no need for junk because the ge would be at the right price. you can either accept that, or shut the hell up about it, let people junk trade and simply stay to items you can afford and dont require junk, or try to get them all as drops yourself. people have a right to charge what ever they want for their own items, because its their. why do you even care about whether those people use some junk left over from activities to get a good price for the item they worked hard for? @mako. just because its not sold doesnt mean the price wont change. jagex can and has in the past changed prices manually to get things moving on certain items. claws move because of jagex helping it, and also a small number of cs'd claws. they arent completley blinded to the problems

this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW. as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking. let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown walka please read the word i bolded i said i don't believe the G.E. is right and onward profit Definition The positive gain from an investment or business operation after subtracting for all expenses. opposite of loss. selling a product for exactly its median market value does not constitute profit for instance say you have 5000 yo-yo's that have a median value of $1 each your total net worth is $5000 though it's in product rather than money in order to profit you don't sell those yo-yo's for $1 each you raise the price to $1.50 and sell them thereby gaining you a profit of $2500 due to the fact that junk is sold at it's median market price, it does not increase your net worth and therefore does not generate a profit now back to the example from earlier say you come across a rare that has a median market price of 10m although player demand 50m including junk for it you can either spend weeks gathering 40m worth of junk and in the end have the exact same net worth(only now in shiny gold coins) or you can put it on the g.e. for max and make a profit of 500k you then buy it back at min for 9.5 m making your net worth now be 10.5m in 4 hours you have made a 1m profit say you continue this process for awhile(assume rare items buy and sell immediately which i know they don't this is a hypothetical analysis) this earns you 500k every 4 hours in 76 hours you will have successfully doubled your net worth 76 hours for a 10m profit or weeks for no profit what sounds better? on your first point, i guess i just misread. tyring to watch simpsons while arguing can cause you to miss things anyway your fatal flaw in that argument, is that you ASSUME if i sold claws on ge for anyprice, that i could buy them back 4 hours later. it would be pretty much impssible to buy the claws back from the ge, EVER, at minimum. there is simply so much demand only the people who get offers in just after the ge updates, and offer at max, will ever get them and you say i make no profit from gather junk. are [bleep]nig [bleep]ing stoned? or are you just stupid. its still maknig a profit. they have a value to the ge, and i would in theory use them junk up my claws. how can they not be a profit? because i spend time collecting them? in that case the profit is simply measured in gp/hour. or is it because with junk, the time is spent trying to make the item tradeable via junking, and it is no profit because if i see claws as 50m, i must spend hours and hours getting the junk, which is hours wasted because im simply trying to trade them not make extra money? most likely that, but i instead am simply going to wait till they reach a good price on the ge; they are going up every day. they'll reach a good price someday and ill sell. no time wasted, no money lost, only gained, while i have fun with my claws and lend them when i do come across a bit of junk, using junk to make extra cash but im probably rambling. and i cant be bothered arguing with you anymore. its like shouting at a brick wall. completley devoid of thought and just wont move unless you hit it with a sledge hammer

its not so much of greed, as people not wanting to get cheated out of getting full pay for a good item. if/when jagex fixes the prices on ge for all these items they will [90% likely] be traded on ge once again.

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the fact that ge prices are so far off, because it has a price set too low for the items rarity. you said you would sell 3a on the ge. thats fine, its still got a high ge price, but its not high enough. my point about maple bows was maybe you had been fletching, and had some you couldnt sell. theres no point in dropping them, really, unless you have a full bank. and the addy arrows point was, at godwars if you dont get hilt drops your still normally can make a profit picking up the lesser drops. maybe you didnt know that addy arrowsP++ were unsellable and decided to pick them up to hopefully pay for a trip or 2 this is where you're wrong. the GE is NOT right. true, junking stops people selling expensive items on ge because people are willing to pay more when there is junk, because noone sells on the ge because IT IS TOO LOW. as for the point you made about buying junk from other players, that is a redundant point. noone really buys junk from players; they arent that stupid. what they do normally, is either do slayer, godwars, camp at some monsters etc.... for whips, hilts, or whatever that monster drops, and picks up everything they know has a high ge price. they are nomrlally not after the junk itself but the good items. the junk is just incase they need it later. when you do pick up the junk, however, it is not yet profit. you wont use it, you cant sell it [yet] and therefore it is not profit because you get no cash for it. it becomes the profit once you add it to the trae. you took no extra time to get junk, it was gained while looking for another item. time is money, and they wasted no time getting the junk so they wasted no money the last point you made about buyingj unk in small amounts to junk an item, and the dif between min and max is 1m, why junk for 120k when you can buy min and sell max. the fundemental problem is that if an item is ever junked you wont get it min ge unless you have an offer in within about 5 seconds of a ge update, when its price changes. even then you still wont get it unless noone else offers max, because the item will always go on highest offers; if you have the highest offer but its not the earliest offer you wont get it. your arguament there is redundant yes, that may be true, but that is because, as i said, the ge price is wrong the only way people can get around it is with junking. let me put it this way. if you had gotten a good drop/clue reward before trade restrictions, would you sell it cheap just because you dont wana be super rich, or would you want to take the highest offer you're given for it? only an idiot would say sell cheap the dragon claws rising isnt simply because of cs'd claws. very few people duo td's with coinshare, they use simple lootshare instead because ge price is so off, using cs loses them potential money. the reason that claws rose is because jagex is [most likely] intervening to get the price at a good level. theyve done it before. they are doing it slowly because they dont want to overshoot and make the more expensive than they really are. they artificially boosted item prices before, ya know.this isnt unknown

And now, part B to the story. Let's say that you had tried the GE for about ten hours prior to this, and absolutely no one was selling the plate at max value. You notice on the forums that the only place people are selling it are on world 2, and you also have to buy their junk. If you really wanted the plate, then you really didn't have a say in whether or not you were getting someone else's unwanted rubbish. Charge as much as he wants? Yeah, that's fundamentally true, but if they don't charge the right price, then they won't get the trade. Oh, and I have no desire in getting a rare for cheap. I think that discontinued items should be expensive. I just don't like the idea of using rubbish to get there. It doesn't mean that you can charge as much as you like for an item, it simply means that you're fixing a "broken" system with even more problems. 1) How is our logic flawed if we're against junk trading? 2) A lot of people thought that bots weren't ruining the game in any way, too (dropping resource prices, etc), and that turned out to be wrong. your logic is flawed because junk trading is helping to allow free trade [to a degree] which is a good thing. and bots ere ruining the game because they were swarming resources and making it impossible for skillers to get the items they wanted at a good speed and as for part b of the story. if i couldnt get the plate, id take the roundabout way. buy the dragon lump/shard/slice off ge, which are almost alwayts there because no1 wants to make d-plates coz they are so bad, buy the pieces and make a plate via assist system. if you wish to make an argument for this, use an item without so many loopholes :P or you cant hope to win. dragon plate is just a plain bad example

the reason people are against it is because they believe that the ge knows better than players in terms of an items true value, and as such assume anyone who wants to sell something with junk because they value it as more than ge, is a scammer. that and they want to get rare items on ge for cheap; when people are willing to pay alot more I know why people are against it, and I'm trying to point out to those that are against it that they have faulty logic and that junk trading isn't ruining the game in any way. fair enough

the reason people are against it is because they believe that the ge knows better than players in terms of an items true value, and as such assume anyone who wants to sell something with junk because they value it as more than ge, is a scammer. that and they want to get rare items on ge for cheap; when people are willing to pay alot more

Let's flip the script. Let's say, a month and a half ago, you were interested in a Dragon Platebody. You know its value, and you know its potential value, and a quick check of the GE reveals that it's trading at 14m. You bring that much to a trader, and he offers the plate and some 6M worth of absolute junk that you know you'll never use in your life. Is that fair? Or is this just a false sense of freedom in this market? he can charge as much as he wants; if i dont like his price i simply wont pay it. or i buy the plate and use the junk the same way every one does, to boost trade. but instead of selling thing, i use the junk to lend my claws [which i got as a drop] for maybe a day, 100k an hour [2.4m] while doing other things. i dont use my claws much so its no detriment to me to use them to unload some junk and get the money its valued at. realistically, doing no work except lending my claws, i get the dragon plate for the supposed 14m. even though i would never buy a dragon plate, and people dont junk them anyway. [not that ive seen, atleast]

ehh how about using items like fish for junk trades instead? it's something you spend time getting the same way you would unstrung bows or other junk items and actually has a real world use. I see this as being far preferable to junk that no one can use. In the end it comes down to the fact that the you're not increasing profits by selling your junk, you're just selling your junk. So overall it isn't a way to get money for your rares, it's a scam to get rid of your junk. its not a scam to get rid of your jun,. the only people who think that are the ones hwo dont understand junking. its simply to make the useless items you get from drops, skills and such, have a use. such items are unsellable because noeone will use them, so they use them to make a good item sellable for its real price. yes, the person buying gets the junk aswell and can then use the junk they got to sell the item again later i have a scenario for you. you do a treasure trail and get a 3rd age robe top. people are willing to pay alot more for it than you can sell it for on the ge. it just happens that you have been to zam. godwars alot recently and have gotten hilts etc and made money, but you also got alot of addy arrows p++, and maple bows (u) you cant get rid of. jst enough, infact, that if you added them to the mage top, its the same value as people are willing to pay. now, OP, i ask you. are you REALLY gonna leave all that junk in your bank and sell the top for ge price, and lose alot of money? or sell the top with junk and make millions?

i get alot of black demons and dagannoth. i love both tasks. black demons give alot of exp per task and are somewhat afk'able due to their high hp and that with pray i take no damage, and i like daggas because its a quick task with decent exp; each task is finished in ~15 minutes with a cannon and combat familiar. i get black demons about 1 in 5; and daggas about 1 in 10. not as much as some people all other possible tasks seem to be spread out more

combat just coz im one of those arrogant, agressive prepubescent losers who gets off by hurting things and people and that was sarcasm but still combat/killz

ive probably been spotted many times but i havent seen the pics and i cba to go through all the pages

well, damn.

hey, smartass, did you even read when this guide was posted? its old and so many numbers would be way off, and oceans doesnt play anymore [he was one of my friends]

pretty sure that zgs freezes for 20, not 30 but... i wouldnt use zgs on solo. when you go to spec her, shes gonna hit you, and chances are the spec will fail, and if you die youll lose more items. save the zgs for team trips

nolife another day to get 99 :D