Yoko Kurama

I can see some need for it in the real world, though in the vastness of the anonymity of the internet, it's a bit redundant and unnecessary for RS. False, what I stated was, community members should be allowed to name names if they so desire. It should then be up to individual readers to determine for themselves whether they trust the words of the accuser or not. I never stated that people would not abuse this, that's beside the point. I would prefer this to the way things currently are where it is assumed categorically that all people are innocent. Knowing who in particular is out there acting maliciously or in predatory ways helps me to avoid such people. I do not merely want to avoid being scammed, I also want to avoid such people.

I disagree with the naming policy wholeheartedly. It encourages inaction and impotence in the face of villainous players. People who break rules or wrong other players should ​be shamed publicly in the community, they should not simply be able to get away on some policy which states we can never name players. As for "innocent until proven guilty", I disagree on that as well. We should be allowed to make our own decision as to whom we consider guilty and whom we consider to be innocent, rather than some default policy which maintains that all people are to be treated always as if they innocent. By that, I mean people should be allowed to post names, and the individual readers can make up their mind on whom to trust. Obviously, if it's a respected member of the forums who is making an allegation, I will be likely to listen and/or trust him, whereas if it happens to be some random no-namer, I will most likely take it with a grain of salt. That's how it should be, rather than a policy which basically immobilizes people from doing doing anything. Potential information with regards to rule-breakers and malicious players should be accessible to the community, we have a right to protect ourselves, rather than having it swept under the ring with the unreasonable assumption to treat everyone as innocent when obviously everyone is not innocent. Now obviously I respect the right of aministrators to set whateve rules they see fit, including ones that I disagree with(such as this one) -- I have in the past and will endeavour to follow them, I am simply registering my disagreement, that's all.

Well, I had mainly Temple Trekking on mind(since I have been doing that for the last couple of days); since supposedly it's super easy now(and thus one of more noticeable oversights on their part). A few people have made posts about it on RSOF; surely there can't be that many people doing TT and it would be easy to track, that's what worries me.

This has got me thinking, all these people doing Temple trekking, and similar activities where it appears they haven't properly updated the monsters health/damage(or perhaps they have?), are they going to be filed under "bug abuse" or "exploitation" and get banned?

People did play the beta, I know I did; I spent a a few days a week on it towards the end. However, they should have had a better strategy than to expect people to do Quality Assurance testing for them for FREE, that simply won't happen. They should have either paid some of their staff to do it, OR, they should have given some decent rewards/incentives for those willing to do serious testing. Instead, they tried to on a wing and a prayer hope that people would just do testing for them for free. Also, we have earned the right to lash out at Jagex because we gave them constructive criticism, we told them to take their time and do a good job, they decided to ignore us and now it's lead to some unsavoury consequences. Hell yes, we will be pointing out how right we were.

If they didn't so nakedly screw things up with a total disregard for the consequences, we might not have to waste our time saying the same shit over and over again. We already gave them PLENTY of constructive criticism, including the most important one: don't half-ass it and release the project if it isn't ready. Instead, they said "[bleep] it, we are going to do this no matter what!", and that's how we are where we are. You were one of the people who supported their decision to release it early, and now that it's gone less than stellar with regards to bugs, you're still in denial about the whole situation. Naturally it isn't very surprising.

We all told them that they wouldn't be ready; and yet they rammed the update anyways, and now that they have, there's a bazillion things that are broken. But, as all the Jagex supporters reminded us then, we were just mindlessly hating then! They'd be ready for sure! Well, are they ready? Furthermore, they didn't have the good sense to make up for the premature release of the beta by putting some extra Q&A people on some extra hours so they could hot patch the worst cases of bugs. @ Makoto, the reason it's in shambles is because they released it prematurely despite just about everyone telling them not to. @Hedgehog, they can't expect us all to beta test endlessly for them(which is basically work and a job) for free. If they needed more help on the beta testing, they should have incentivized it better.

they were actually told about this issue but apparently they didn't have enough time to fix it the healers weren't actually buffed, it's just that the system didn't adjust the poison damage properly I see, so then I take it that this will be fixed sometime in the near future? SHOULD and WILL are two different things. Assuming they care about Barbarian Assault in the slightest, they will have to do something about it. I am not exaggerating at all when I say this, but they have actually killed BA; the update, or rather this glitch, has driven everyone off the official world and there's no on there any more. A quick look on the RSOF should confirm this if you have any doubts. Furthermore, given that this was completely unintentional on their part, I don't know why they wouldn't fix it?

they were actually told about this issue but apparently they didn't have enough time to fix it the healers weren't actually buffed, it's just that the system didn't adjust the poison damage properly I see, so then I take it that this will be fixed sometime in the near future?

They have significantly buffed up the Penance Healers, so now it takes forever to kill them, and it requires the combined efforts of two healers, and collectors to use eggs as well. Any word on what's the deal with that? A lot of people have gotten irrititated with that and left BA(which was pretty empty to begin with). Unfortunately for me, I was there the eve of the EOC release trying to fill my horn, the next morning post-update it was awful and now I can't find any teams during most of the day. It sucks. They buffed them up particularly without increasing the rewards proportionally. If they have made any posts about it, it'd be nice if someone can re-post them here.

That was one of my favourite things to do on the EOC beta: messing around with Dharoks. One of the monsters that it truly decimated was Hellhounds. It's a lot of fun, no matter where you take it.

I think they do serve some discussion value; they register dissatisfaction with the beta at this stage. If none of those people posted, Jagex and other players might get the false impression that more people are actually okay with the beta now. Their reasons are quite clear: they prefer the status quo to the beta. There's not really many examples you can post; I suppose you could mention all the things you like about the live version, but that'd be more of the same, they essentially just be posting a list. It's like saying I prefer chocolate to vanilla icecream, hotdogs to burgers, and rice to beans and so forth. Not true. If a significant portion of the community registered complaints, Jagex would have no choice but to address them. Secondly, your entire premise with regards to "constructive" criticism is essentially a trap. It's basically telling people that the only way they can be constructive is if they offer suggestions on how to improve the beta(thus accepting the framework of the beta; which means they'd be agreeing with you), it completely ignores people who don't want a beta at all. While I support the beta, I find your position to be somewhat close-minded. It's not the case, nor has any conclusive evidence been provided to substantiate the following claims: A) Without the beta, the game will surely "die"; the beta is necessary. B) The beta will help RS attract a new influx of players. These are only assumptions(and while I do agree with them), we have no evidence thus far. It could be the case that RS loses a significant amount of players over this, and fails to attract a proportional amount of new players. I don't think that's what will happen(and I think the claims I posted above are likely to be true), but there's no way to be sure. Actually what you describe(your own view) is quite selfish. You are essentially telling people that unless they share your preferences, they are "selfish" and "ignorant". You do this by aligning your own preferences with the "greater good". Needless to say, it's hardly an impressive tactic, and reeks of desperation. This is a demonstrably false statement. Plenty of people are dissatisfied with the beta, they care that others who share their views be able to voice them. Jagex, cares to an extent: they wouldn't want to release something that's unpopular, would they? So there's definitely a "point" to this. It's just that you are far too immersed in your own views to be able to appreciate or even understand the sentiment or significance of the views of people who happen to disagree with you.

He was not merely somewhat aggressive, there was an explicit tone of condescension in his post, and he was overly rude. I know about being an aggressive poster; I'm an aggressive poster, and even I don't go around telling people(even those people whose opinions I deeply disagree with) that they have "ruined my reading experience", that they "shouldn't let the door hit them on their way out", that I don't "care about their opinion", and that they are knowingly being "ignorant". That sort of thing thing is beyond assertive posting and simply rude and unnecessary. As I stated earlier, any change of this magnitude will naturally be displeasing to people who prefer the status quo. There's nothing "ignorant" about that, that's a legitimate preference. I personally am not opposed to the beta(though I do have concerns with how they are implementing it); in fact, I welcome this sort of thing. However, I understand this is a major departing from one of RS's most unique qualities. As such, I can understand why other people might not feel the same way as I do. I was here when they released the RS2 beta, and I tested that out for them too. And while I was quite in favour of that too, I understood and sympathized with others, who I knew would not feel the same as I did and would, in deed, miss "their" game. I do think that there's a purpose to saying things "RS is dying", or "I am going to quit". The first comment is not objectively true, of course. RS is still alive and may end up experiencing a surge of popularity. But it's definitely true in the subjective sense, RS as they know it and perceive it, is dying for them. As for the latter comment, that's been here since the dawn of RS, and it's a legitimate form of protest, it states, quite clearly to Jagex: "this update is unacceptable to me in its entirety, I don't want a tweak or two, here and there, I reject the entire premise itself, and I will quit if you pursue this". For such people, offering "constructive criticism" is meaningless, because it's not that they want the beta to be different, it's that they don't want a beta at all. If enough people felt as they did, Jagex would be forced to change their policy. It's basically a boycott, and while I don't share any of these sentiments myself, there's nothing wrong with them. Duly noted, though I didn't think that one needed or could have been split into two paragraphs; I will endeavour to do better next time with regards to my paragraph splitting. ----------------------------------------- I don't think these people are opposed to change in general; they are specifically opposed to this sort of change.Yes, change is absolutely necessary. It's not that people are upset that RS is copying other games as it is the kind of copying they are doing. RS(as well as most other MMORPGs) has always lifted other stuff from other games/place. It's just that the change that they are opposed to major copying of concepts which would fundamentally change RS. The change was implemented more or less, because even after this update, RS will retain some of its principle features: excessive grinding. For a lot of people, they aren't even against the beta, they like the change, but they don't want training to get overly complicated, because a part of RS has always been afking. Jagex, wisely, listened to these people. These sort of people are reformists; they want the beta to be somewhat different, but they are okay with a beta at the end of the day. The people whom we were talking about before, are not reformists, they don't want a beta at all of this sort. This is not true at all; as even Jagex has admitted, the game, even with momentum, will have inexorably changed. Particularly with regards to most PVP(with the exception of staking with no specials/armour) and PVM boss areas. ----- My personal preference is for the beta, of course, though I am somewhat sympathetic to those who don't share my view and oppose the beta.

It took me several hours, but I have finally hunted down and assembled every bind item that I want. I can't take a screenshot at the moment but here's what I had before the update: Before: Primal 2h, Hex, Primal Plate, Blood Necklace After: Primal 2h, Hex, Primal Plate, Primal legs, Blood Becklace. Sag Top, Sag Legs, Celestial top, Celestial Staff, Celestial Bottom It's absolutely lovely, I finally get to use all the various styles :)

Are you always this obnoxious and petulant or did you just decide to be such today? The only post that I am aware of, in this thread, which was completely unnecessary and ruined anyone's reading pleasure was yours, not Karnsy's. The sentiment expressed by Karnsy's post is perfectly legitimate, and quite widespread, and is, indeed, a valid criticism. The sentiment is actually quite pervasive in the RS community and has been for quite some a defining characteristic of RS; namely that what made RS so unique as compared to other MMORGPS was its simplicity. There are plenty of MMORPG's that are more complex, and there always will be, but there aren't too many like RS. Furthermore, part of the simplicity was due to the nature of the game; it's a browser game, it was never able to match the other MMORPGS(which tended to resort on downloads rather browsers , and it still might, not in various areas. Thus, simplicity made sense. While Jagex is free to do as they please, to implement such a change at this point is a complete departure from one RS's founding principles and how it was developed and sustained over the years. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing, but it does mean that people who signed up to RS for that simplicity and spent years on it, having grown accustomed to it, will be naturally be upset. It's a legitimate grievance and they have every right to express it. Next time, actually try to think for a little bit before you resort to knee-jerk petulance and nonsense.

The "organic testing" theory is nice, but it simply doesn't hold up, the beta isn't even sufficiently developed that we could do that. It simply has far too many things that are not ready for it released live. What will happen is what has always happened: lots of glitchy stuff. As for the notion about having to develop 2 Runescapes, while I acknowledge that it takes a lot of effort, they knew, or should have known that this project would by definition entail that. All they have to do is add any live updates to the beta simultaneously (at the same time as they added to the real RS) and it should be fine. Besides, we haven't really gotten any major updates for a while, it's mostly been filler content or seasonal stuff like Bonus Weekends/Events, it isn't as if they are going to have to do too much work in that area. With regards to not enough feedback, I don't quite agree, I think there's been a ton of feedback, the fact that they are insisting on forcing this upon us prematurely despite the overwhelming response to develop it further, shows that they are actually disregarding the feedback. There's the problem that players have kind of gotten bored of testing the beta and have gone back to RS live and the beta worlds have been deserted, but that's easily fixable, all they half to do is raise the incentives. What beta testing is, it's basically free labour, the least they can do is give some decent incentives to make it worthwhile; otherwise, people will simply, quite rightly, view any extensive testing as a waste of time and leave. I mean there's a whole bunch of options to get feedback. They don't have to pay us in dollars, perhaps neat outfits; Runecoins; spins; RS GP; the possibilities are endless(I am aware of the mad scientist outfit, but that alone is hardly enough to allure us into doing free extensive testing for them). They have proven themselves to be pretty resourceful with their Bonus Weekends/Amulets/Spins as of late, surely they should be willing to dish out some of that for this(I mean they certainly dish it out when their bottom line is concerned). They can't expect people to devote large amounts of time for nothing. Either way, it's no excuse to thrust it prematurely.

They've obviously become completely oblivious or simply decided to half ass it(I know the sentiment, I have had school assignments that I hated for which I put in a ramshackle effort and just wanted to hand them in as soon as I could). Whatever the case may be, the attitude is deeply irresponsible and completely unfitting for a project of this magnitude. If they are unable to treat it seriously, they shouldn't stay signed on to introduce such a large change. Anyone who has actually spent any amount of measurable in the beta and isn't completely out of touch or delusional knows that there is a myriad of small and large problems which merit serious discussion with regards to the solution before one can even begin to act on them. That some people in this thread and in Jagex HQ seriously are of the mind that they could be fixed in the next 2 weeks is ridiculous. That's not even enough time to detect them, much less fix them. I am of the mind that they have deluded themselves into thinking that everything's fine so they can just hand it in, why else box themselves into such a strict and impossible deadline, retreating from what was initially a very reasonable and prudent deadline(sometime 2013)? Also, even a cursory glance on the RSOF, or forums and fansites like Tip.it, or talking to players in-game would reveal instantly that people do not agree with them on this -- they should do the due diligence that is necessary for this project. Not just for the players, or the money, but for the sake of the integrity of their own hard work that they have imbued this project with(and make no mistake about it, they have worked hard on this, it's an unprecedented project), they owe it to themselves and their efforts to treat this with the respect and seriousness it deserves.

That's not just a problem with Cwars, it's basically the problem with team combat events, or PVP as well. There was a time in this game when with a little bit of hard work, you could afford the best gear(barrows) and even special weapons(DDS/Mace/D Long) were dirt cheap. I recall being a level 80 in Castle Wars back in 2005 and even though all I had was Veracs, I could run around and have some fun; sure, strong people would kill me but I would give them a decent run for their money. Now, there's an elite tier of stuff(Nex Armour/Divine etc.) that only a few can buy, and ironically enough it can only really be earned by a select few and parasitic/luck based activities: merching/staking/dicing etc. So yeah the game's a mess, and it really shows in places like Cwars and even Soul Wars, where a few rich cats come in with the best gear and absolutely dominate. The same applies to, say Fight Pits or Soul Wars. It simply isn't fun anymore. It use to be that the best gear was perfectly affordable to anyone who was willing to do a little bit of the work, and those who had too much money could toy around with rares; which to be sure we all wanted, but were not practical/functional items. What they have done now is basically introduced a Rare's tier of combat gear/skills/abilities. And it has adversely affected places like Cwar. I could probably open up a thread on that somewhere else, so I won't go any further.

Apparently they have decided to move the deadline for the mad scientist outfit. I find that somewhat annoying. I have a question or two regarding it: I did 3 events, lost P2P, got P2P again, did the 4th event. Will I still get the outfit? Second, I accidentally reimported my file from the live game to the beta after I had done all 4 events, will I still get the outfit? ------------------------ As for the Beta, I have been playing for the last 1-2 weeks, and my goodness is the place dead. There were literally 20 people playing during weekdays. I can't help but think that interest has waned down and people aren't really to enthusiastic about it. Are there polls on this? Jagex should host a poll.

That would be harsh towards the people who loaf'd several months to get that requirement. And also, CW got unpopular/ruined when SW came around, the 5k Req just brought more (loafing) players to the game. That would assume Jagex actually cared about passed achievements. Hint: They don't. I don't think you can make an accusation like that, since you have no idea what goes on in their studio. They may be on the verge of nerfing the requirement, but haven't because of prior achievements. You don't know. Of course we can, we can read their commitment and priorities based on their record of word and deed. And they have a pretty poor record on things such as these, they have often neglected poorly designed minigames to a criminal intent. Trouble Brewing? Trawler? Livid Farm? Need I go on? All rather deserted minigames, because of poor design and lack of will-power to do anything about them. You can say, "Well how do you know they aren't planning to do something about?", but that's a smokescreen. How do you know they aren't not-planning to do something about it? We can only pass judgement based on the information available to us, not speculation based on what they might or might not be thinking behind closed doors.

An activity bar of any sort is completely unnecessary. It's odious enough that Jagex made such a vile requirement, there's no need to inflict any further suffering onto the few who aspire for those capes. The fact you perceive the need to add an activity bar in the first place should tip you off to the fact there's something wrong with the design itself. It's a minigame, people should naturally want to do stuff in there and be there for fun, the fact that people aren't doing that is indicative of the perverse incentive structure, that's the root problem and it is this which needs to be addressed. Until it is fixed, "loafers" have my sympathies.

I agree that in a lot of cases addiction to RS is symptomatic of some other deep-seated unresolved issues and RS is the outlet. However, I also think in some cases it causes the problems, and have witnessed several cases where people have gotten addicted to MMORPGS and have ruined what were perfectly good lives. There is an inherently addictive component in MMORPGs in my view that stems from the medium itself, it's very immersive -- it's designed to be. Since MMORPG and indeed mass ownership/access to computers, and such technologies is a relatively recent affair, I don't think we can say for certain either way, since conclusive studies have not been yet conducted but I have a sense (and a frightening one at that) with regards to what happens to the psyche of people who get sucked into MMORPGs in their formative years and spend years there.

My personal feeling is that part of the "prejudice" is justified. Stereotypes are rarely accurate or nice but there's usually a small kernel of truth to them. With regards to MMORPGs, the reason they are treated differently is because they are different, and different circumstances mandate different judgements. MMORPGs are inherently addictive, and the whole premise could be described as a life away from life.That's different from all the various other games because even though people may dash in packs slavishly waiting in line for the newest console game or whatever, and even though they might play it for several hours daily following the purchase, eventually there's an end to it, there's a finite amount of content, and it's sort of easy to leave. With MMORPGs, that's just not the case. Also the widespread addiction to MMORPGs in certain countries and all the "horror stories" from psychiatrists/parents probably doesn't do the game much favours. So naturally people who are on the outside, when they view us, they can sort of pick the signs and it's somewhat disturbing to them. What I have described above is the reason that people harbour some sort of have some social prejudice against RS, if you're talking about why other gamers don't like them, well there're reasons for that too. The time commitment, lack of relative skill, repetitiveness, delayed gratification, historically inferior graphics; mind you some of these reasons are why I actually like ​the game, so I guess it's just a matter of different tastes. Mind you, I am not at all saying that RS players are losers or whatever, I know quite a few people who are maxed, yet have great jobs, social lives, and are very fit physically and emotionally. But a certain amount of RS players(perhaps a minority) have serious issues that either stem from as a result of their interaction with the game or are exacerbated, and these are the sort of people that receive attention on the outside and their experiences are rightly or wrongly extrapolated into generalizations.

I agree wholeheartedly with this part of your post, and that has been my view as well. It's really a matter of the particular setup they decided(for whatever reason) to use *this* time. Their previous conceptions of the bonus XP were pretty acceptable from a health point of view.

ALG: No, I have no idea of how many people will take advantage of this to that extent. Perhaps it might even be 0. My (ethical) claim is that Jagex should not be setting up such incentives. In particular, their decision to make the bonus 2x for the entire duration, rather than how it use to be where it would gradually degrade(and thus only be really usable for a certain limited amount of hours) is what I disagree with. It's a pretty clear implicit signifier(whatever their platitudes about moderation might be), that you better be on for RS for an unusual amount of time to take advantage of this situation. Muggi: It isn't a matter of feeling sorry for people or excusing their behaviour; Jagex being in a position of some social influence should try to, when possible, exercise social responsibility, particularly when they are allowing young impressionable people(in the context of the legal system, I suppose that means under 18) to play their game.