Yoko Kurama

ALG: No, I have no idea of how many people will take advantage of this to that extent. Perhaps it might even be 0. My (ethical) claim is that Jagex should not be setting up such incentives. In particular, their decision to make the bonus 2x for the entire duration, rather than how it use to be where it would gradually degrade(and thus only be really usable for a certain limited amount of hours) is what I disagree with. It's a pretty clear implicit signifier(whatever their platitudes about moderation might be), that you better be on for RS for an unusual amount of time to take advantage of this situation. Muggi: It isn't a matter of feeling sorry for people or excusing their behaviour; Jagex being in a position of some social influence should try to, when possible, exercise social responsibility, particularly when they are allowing young impressionable people(in the context of the legal system, I suppose that means under 18) to play their game.

Are you saying that Jagex is not subsiding and encouraging a particular behaviour and thus has no responsibility in this matter?

If players choose the "unhealthy" path of playing for a full 48 hours, that's not Jagex's fault. That's the player's fault. It's the player's responsibility to make responsible life decisions. It's not like Jagex is holding a loaded gun to everyone's head and forcing them to play for two days straight. If you get sick or something as a result of grinding for so long, you have no one to blame but yourself. At the end of the day, you're the one who chose to do that. Nonsense. Actions often have measurable social impacts. What's happening here is Jagex is providing(for some people) what is a strong incentive to engage in a particular form of behaviour which they likely would not have engaged in if not for Jagex. Simply pretending that individuals are perfectly atomised self-aware beings who are not at all affected by their environment is silly. Absolving Jagex of the responsibility for the predictable consequences of their actions is the height of absurdity. Edited: changed word.

No. Simply no. There's no need to encourage this type of madness. If anything I am for capping the max XP at 20M or something. MMORPG's can be terrific fun but they also have destructive capabilities and I would rather that thousands of more people were not encouraged(in any way) to spend countless more hours on this sort of stuff. Maxing already entails having spent several years(on average anyways), no need to multiply this by several times.

Just got a Arma X bow, W00T!

Yes a hood is rather redundant and awful. It simply doesn't cover a lot of monsters and because of the frequency mages, you are effectively naked, so to speak, in a lot of the rooms. It does have an advantage though in certain rooms(where there no mages) but even if you are tanking high level creatures you still have no defense from the hood alone. Back when I use to have a hood, if I was potted I could solo rooms that I otherwise would have never been able to, but that was about it. I am often on teams where the others are hooded, so I end up tanking the bulk of things, and that is indeed annoying, but still manageable. Ideally, after a certain level, no one should have a hood. Plate is your best option. In short, if you are going to be DG'ing on the official DG world, teams will rarely, if ever, care whether you have a hood or not, they will accept you. It will be somewhat annoying because others have a hood and you don't, but still manageable. If you are going to be DG'ing with elite clans or worlds or teams, then you will need to get rid of your hood and they will rather like you for it. ----- That' somewhat true but even so, but it requires additional care and hassle and over an extended time that can be a bit much.

I am not really interested in stopping particular individuals from engaging in self-destructive activities, there will always be such people. I am against subsiding or popularizing this sort of stuff or incenticiving this sort of behaviour. I think there should be a fierce public campaign against this and parents should be empowered to monitor and control the computer time of their children and encourage them to engage in healthy activities(such as reading, socializing, exercising) in addition to leisure activities. That way when they eventually become independent they will have been brought up in a culture where dicking around on the internet for 5-6 hours a day was not allowed or encouraged, and so they won't lean that way. Of course you can. There was a time when the overwhelming majority of the USA(to use an example) was not obese or overweight(as it is now) and were doing fruitful things such as the ones that I mentioned above. How was that possible? It was because people actually assumed some measure of social responsibility and didn't just take it for granted that we should just let or encourage kids to sit for 6 hours watching TV. People aren't born wanting to do this sort of stuff; they will do whatever the culture tolerates/condones, hence it should be our responsibility to fashion such a culture where doing such harmful things isn't encouraged. I am in favour of drug legalization too, but I am not in favour of encouraging people or not applying social pressure if large amounts of people decide to become crack addicts. Perhaps. It's about whose agenda gets rattified first then isn't it. I would like it to be mine, of course, and I am sure they would like to be theirs(assuming some of them care enough to discourage/outlaw my activities). That's just the nature of life.

What happened to the alleged filter, any word on that?

Of course. I think the internet addictions are usually more symptomatic of other social problems. Once again, I am not talking about particular players(I am not saying Suomi came from negligent parents) but rather the general trends. Because of infeasibility of single-income households; both parents have to work(this started in the 70's) which means for a few generations now, in a lot of homes you have kids who no is watching or parentings(witness the phenomenon of latchkey kids). Then when Mommy and Daddy come home, they are too tired to cook a proper meal(understandably), so they grab something cheap and shove it in the microwave. It's things like that. There's definitely an economic ans social base to this problem. RS is a very, very tiny subset. Also I should add, I am not really interested in the habit of moralising this or calling particular players names(though I might occasionally become frustrated), it is about the trend; if people are starting to put online gaming over their personal relationships(this is not exactly an uncommon phenomenon) then there is something terribly wrong and we have failed them at the social level. The solution is not to call them pathetic or anything but rather to help them.

Nice strawman. Quote me where I made a remark to that effect. Like I stated, it isn't about individuals, it's about a general trend. In the context of RS, it was only very recently( a few years ago), that there emerged a culture where rank chasing and 200M'ing was encouraged, i.e, wasting large amounts of amounts of time on an internet game. That there are individuals who can handle this and still lead healthy and productive lives is beside the point(I hear Soumi runs several KMs a day), I am against the general trend. There will always be Zezima's and Zarfot's around(and I happen to actually admire them), but a subculture around these sort of people shouldn't develop. I don't understand what is so personal about this. Who, here, actually thinks it is a grand idea that it is considered acceptable for people to spend inordinate amount of time on these sorts of things. I am not talking about particular individuals or even particular games, RS is simply in the subset of a larger trend in Western society of internet addiction, and decline in health in recent decades decades. Pointing out that people should not be encouraged to spend 6 hours a day playing computer games is not about petty personal jealousy, but about taking responsibility as a society and simply applying social pressure(no one is talking about using coercion to stop these people, or outlawing their activities). If you think there is something offensive or odd about this, then I don't know what to say to you, I am genuinely puzzled.

I am not interested in Suomi or Jake or whoever as individuals, I am interested in the environment(adulating community, culture, company etc) that permits these sorts of destructive and wasteful activities. Furthermore, spending astronomical amount of time on an online game while your productive capacity, physical and mental health and social relationships deteriorates is not an "achievement". That's not a statement about the individual players, it's a statement about the inherent nature of the activity itself. I didn't bring specific players about this, I brought up the environment which enables them to do what they did. It's about social attitudes, policy and culture. The fact that it's considered perfectly okay for people to spend 6 hours a day playing games is a sign of degeneracy(and I am talking about moderately successful RS players, not the top players who doubtless spend a lot more time). Right, I am opposed to these inherent aspects of all MMORPGs. The problem isn't the players, it's the game and culture which enables them to do these sorts of things. Sorry but I am not a liberal nihilist who thinks individuals should be able to do or encouraged at least, to do whatever the hell they want. There should be extremely strong and acute social pressure to lead them away from doing these sorts of things. There are social consequences(chief among them the rising obesity in certain developed nations) to these sorts of things and they should be dealt with, it's the responsible thing to do as a community. You make this unnecessarily personal. Also it doesn't help the fact you are attempting to poorly satirize my original post because simply replacing a few words here and there in my original post won't generate accurate or even coherent points. If intense social pressure and responsibility had been implemented as I advocate, then things wouldn't have nearly gotten as disastrous as they have gotten in the West. The impending obesity crisis and the fact sometime in the future there will be a generation of the kids, for whom the life expectancy is predicted to decline(for the first in a very, very long time), in developed nations no less, is truly frightening and horrifying. That you would try to trivialize that or personalize that, "These people should just be encouraged to do whatever the hell they want", is most telling. Suomi is not the only rank chaser out there. The community that supports him and his activities, the company that permits it to happen, and the culture surrounding it is entirely Western in nature.

What's more sickening is that Jagex would actually permit the kind of gamestyle where people are actually interested in -- quite literally -- throwing away their lives pursuing this sort of stuff. You'd think they would cap XP at 20, maybe 30M, to stop this nonsense. RS, being an MMORPG, by its very nature entails basically spending an inordinate amount of time on unproductive things, but this is simply preposterous. Also unsettling is how the community seems to have gotten behind these people, seem to be encouraging them, and are actually funding this insanity. But then the whole culture of video-game/television/hyper-consumption/atomisation has finally become the norm here in the West over the past 30 years, I suppose this isn't the abject manifestation of that.

I tend to agree with your analysis of the situation, the extravagant prices are indeed ridiculous and unreasonable. However, I think there are a couple of better solutions, in no particular order: actually make skills be profitable once more(some are,most aren't, they are money drains) tie high level gear to quests or possibly dungeoneerning have bosses similar to dungeoneering or Dominion tower, where perhaps you raid with a team and after you have obtained some level of progress are gauranteed drops Greatly increase the supply of said drops so that armour pieces are actually affordable There was a short period of time in RS where certain skills were extremely profitable(see: Bluerose and here smithing cartel) but that situation was not sustainable due to the inevitability of more players getting 99 smithing, monster drops and poor design. Then there was a short period, before and after barrows were introduced where Rune armour was extremely affordable, and dragon armour(there were only 2-3 pieces released at that time) which was only marginally better was somewhat pricey but still supremely affordable. Then came barrows, and also D legs/skirt(around the same time), and they too while being pricey weren't exorbitantly expensive, and after a little while become even more affordable. Around the same time, the soon-to-be burgeoning RWT industry wasn't that successful, RS gold was going for as high as 5-20$ per mil, because there just wasn't that much of it around. The game state was much better then in this regard. Party hats aside, people with a modest amount of work were usually able to get the gear appropriate to their level and what not. Now the best armours are ludicrously expensive and effectively out of the reach of the players for whom they were allegedly designed, and for players who meet the requirements. It's absurd to think that you need to grind away for hundreds of hours to get the best stuff at monotonous activities. It's like Livid Farm/Temple Trekking etc., where you do unbearably idiotic shit for the rewards. That sort of game model is horrendous; where they only way they can make money from you is by incentivizing you to engage in long and boring activities so that you will be a member for long periods of time and they can rake in P2P money. We need a more reasonable and enjoyable game model with regards to gear any money. I have a few extremely high level friends who got hacked, lost their stuff, it's mind boggling to think that people who are literally maxed and have spent thousands upon thousands of hours and the real life equivalent of thousands of dollars, the only way they can get the gear suited to their levels is to grind for hundreds of more hours. They are now selling Dungeons and what not to make money. The game should not be this way. By making the game more reasonable, you can eliminate a lot of the need for RWTing in the first place, have a healthier player base and a more enjoyable game environment. It's all a pipe dream, of course.

I was excited at the prospect of EoC as well, I really was, I was one of the 50,000 that got full access, and I gave it more than a fair try; more than a few actually. I simply cannot get into it. I realize they have done a lot of work on this, but the best idea is to just scrap the whole thing, and add, slowly, certain positive aspects of the beta(such as LP armour, food raising more LP and so on). That's a great thing to parallel the current situation with; I remember them hyping up MA and the subsequent fiasco as well, it was atrocious. The only reason that game survives to this day is because much like Livid Farm, Jagex can be saddists at times, they make it so the only way to get nice rewards is to torment yourself through the most horrendous drudgeries.

Where was this announced?I seem to have missed it.

Oh, and with regards to them completely predictably expanding the sale of ostensibly "cosmetic gear" into meaningful advantages; all I can say is, I told you so! But I am sure the apologists will still maintain that this isn't a big deal, they have to save face after all!

Thanks for reminding me about that, here's a big [bleep] you to Jagex for that too. It's pure laziness and spite, that's all.

If Runespan has truly been nerfed for the worse, WTF Jagex? It had been out for months now, did it really take them this long to make up their mind? I hate when they do this bullshit. They essentially let thousands of people get 99 RC, and NOW they decided that it was too much? In RS there has been always been a sense that because of Jagex's laziness, the early bird wins; I was anticipating a nerf for a long time, so I got 92 but I was bored so I was like I will do it later, surely they won't nerf it now. But of course they did it. This sense of rush that's always there, "better exploit Jagex's short-sightedness now because they nerf it 5 months laters!", I absolutely hate it. Edit: I am so furious right now, [bleep] Jagex and [bleep] their laziness and inept ways.

Is Runespan now significantly worse than before?

No it does not. All 4 outfit unlocks have come and gone. There is going to be a 'bonus' unlock in early september if you missed one of the 4. If you missed more than 1 of the 4 your still utterly screwed for getting it all. Thank god I only missed one, then! Meh, I only found out about the outfit after I had missed the first event, so I never bothered with the others, and now this. Not that I care, I have long stopped caring about these sort of items; I get them if I can, otherwise it isn't a big deal.

If it were the reason given(and it appears for some people indeed it is), it still wouldn't be as lacklustre as the argument or lack thereof you have given to make your case. Love it or hate it; the beta is antithetical to the premise of Runescape and a complete departure from its established system of combat, it's a major change; in a list of the most major changes in RS history, this would easily be in the top 5-10. Some people can handle that, others can't and there's nothing "pathetic" or "sad" about people leaving the game over this. It would appear a lot of people are at least planning at this time to leave the game if the beta supplants the live RS; I haven't seen any data on this, but there seems to be a fair amount of anecdotal evidence(so take it for what it's worth) out there corroborating this. At the same time though, I know a few people who will be coming back with the combat update. People will leave and people will come, just like with every update. Agreed, and many more hordes will be joining the game because of the beta(if it is implemented and advertised properly); the potential is tremendous, which is why I am assuming they undertook this venture in the first place.

These people really are spoiled princesses. If this is true, he wasted 20 [bleep]ing billion GP just so he could get a particular name? It wasn't enough that someone was actually willing to donate money to his cause, but he had to waste it on some trivial bullshit rather than the task at hand. Then of course there's the case of Suomi who basically got here by shamelessly asking for donations. At least Zezima and Zarfot; the two players responsible for starting this crazed and degenerate-rank chasing Runescape subculture, for the most part actually raised the cash to fund their hobbies themselves. Mind you, people are free to donate whatever they want to these players, and these players are free to indulge themselves in whatever they want, but I am also free to criticize their habits.

If it were the reason given(and it appears for some people indeed it is), it still wouldn't be as lacklustre as the argument or lack thereof you have given to make your case. Love it or hate it; the beta is antithetical to the premise of Runescape and a complete departure from its established system of combat, it's a major change; in a list of the most major changes in RS history, this would easily be in the top 5-10. Some people can handle that, others can't and there's nothing "pathetic" or "sad" about people leaving the game over this. It would appear a lot of people are at least planning at this time to leave the game if the beta supplants the live RS; I haven't seen any data on this, but there seems to be a fair amount of anecdotal evidence(so take it for what it's worth) out there corroborating this.

I think it's entirely possible that this might be another micro-transaction venture on the part of Jagex. That's all that's being said it; people are merely discussing that it is possible, not that it will happen or that it is certain. So I don't understand if there's anything at all knee-jerk or irrational about this at all. Given Jagex's turn as of late and track record, one would have to be a delusional fool to discount the mere possibility of this. People are perfectly justified in this speculation. After all, it seems that these days all we get are constant reminders to spend money on Jagex's micro-transaction shops; and it isn't something they release once in a while, or once a month, or once every few weeks or even once a week, it's several times a week that we are constantly bombarded with bullshit reminders to buy their bullshit. In fact, in game, for a while we were given the option to turn off the log-in reminders, only for them to ungraciously take it away; now we are only allowed to make the log-in advertisement go away for 5 days. That is Runescape's day-to-day operations; not actual content but this. If it is them actually selling money up front, I won't be surprised in the least. That would also explain why they targeted a few RWT'ers recently(after letting them off the hook for so long), naturally, one wants to eliminate one's competition to make the ride smooth. LIke I said, people only speculated that micro-transactions might be what this might *possibly* be; it isn't the only possibility. It could be a genuine update, maybe an update to the existing banks, perhaps more items, a loaning/lending system or something. I certainly acknowledge those possibilities as well and I certainly hope it is the latter possibilities which end up occurring rather than the former micro-transaction possibilities.

I don't think anyone who understands MMORPGs or plays them feels that such activities aren't a crime(and this isn't the first time this has happened either). It's usually the people or commentators in the popular media that whenever something like happens lose their collective shit and go "Aww' shucks! I dun get it, it's just a game, it's not reealll dammit!"Dem nerds, they's gotta get a life!".