PaperClipsYaaaar

Ban. Also animorphs suck read some real books

I hope you understand the difference between a barbaric native and a citizen in a civilized country. I also hope you understand which of those is the exception to the rule and, hence, what this thread isn't referring to.

Fact 2, 3, + your conclusion is what I'm having problems with. What you seem to be implying is that the Bible contains false information because it contains the conflicting idea of choice that is not choice. The Bible does not contain false information. To summarize: Any statements in the bible about Choice must be seen as Illusionary Choice. Plain and simple. I have already given you several quotes. Here is the most general one: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Also, the "hardened" quote does not refer to only the Pharaoh. It is phrased as to encompass all people. Which scholars are you talking about? According to the percentage I showed you, believers and scholars who ignore Predestination are in the minority. If you have no more arguments, you are welcome to admit so and withdraw. However, please do not disparage the discussion by calling it "fruitless" or "running in circles."

You know, people only use that saying sarcastically now. You're way behind if you're still trying to use it as an actual argument.

Atoms don't really have a standard shape. And texture is made of multiple atoms (I think).

Stay safe! Always use condoms!

Your friend is drunk. Usually, people are most likely to do horses when they're drunk.

Sometimes I poop in my pants. And then again YOU men folk dont GIVE BIRTH, AND NOW YOU DO? POOPING IN PANTS IS JUST AS PAINFUL

Sometimes I poop in my pants.

It's not going in circles. Predestination is in the Bible, thereby defining all statements on choice as illusionary choice. What is unclear to you about that? Fact #1: Statements on Predestination are in the Bible Fact #2: Statements on Choice are in the Bible. Fact #3: Statements on Choice may be either free or illusionary. Conclusion: Because Predestination is the bible, statements on Choice must be seen only as illusionary.

Bottom row: I'd hit that. I'd hit that. I'd hit that. I'd hit that. I'd hit that.

What about gay people? What about them? There's a clear difference between hating someone's actions and the person themselves, Racists hate black people because of how they act black. Sexists discriminate against women because of how they act weak. Supremacists hate Muslims because of how they act out their religion. Eelspremier hates gays because of how they act gay. ...but he doesn't hate Gay people themselves. Race is fundamental to a person's life. Gender is fundamental to a person's life. Religion is fundamental to a person's life. Sexuality is fundamental to a person's life. But stealing isn't. Please, stop being a bigot.

You liiike?

It hinges on the fact that Predestination is in the Bible. True love goes either way in terms of logic. True love can only be paired with Predestination in terms of Christianity. Rom. 9:16-18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 No. I'm arguing that Predestination is right because it's in the Bible. I never said whether I think it's real or unreal. It comes into relevance again whenever you say "this is not the God of Christianity." Read my explanation on why majority counts in religion but not in science again. But predestined illusion of choice isn't.

"He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." and "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned." and, most importantly, the quote that combines them: ""For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth...O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? God dictates people's future choices before they are born. That means people are not aware of God's influence and think that they are making choices on their own. Once again, I repeat that both your statement and my statement make sense in logic. However, due to the existence of Predestination, only my statement is right in Christianity. The definition of true love is not dependent on whether or not free will is there. You could go back to that web page, replace "free will" and "free choice" with "predestination" and "predestined choice," and the paragraphs would still make sense. I explained this in the second part of this post. If those verses contradict the God I describe, then why is it the God believed by over 80% of all Christians?

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I agree. I agree. Here's the problem. The words "free will" don't belong in there. The sentence should read: "a decision originating from God to give love." Yes, both of our sentences make sense in terms of logic. However, in terms of Christianity, only my sentence makes sense, as the Bible writes of Predestination, not Free Will. Also, you forgot to give your definition of Predestination (#4 on my list). You still haven't given me any evidence why this isn't the God of Christianity. Let me say this one last time. I have never attempted to place my opinions in this thread. Like I said in my previous post, any personal reflections you make after reading my facts belong to you alone. ...you're the one who wanted to discuss it. The percentage is from the Central Intelligence Agency. I gave you the link.

Trick question. Canadians communicate by mounties.

I don't really understand what you mean. Can you try to clarify? Maybe you should summarize, in your own words, your definitions of 1) choice 2) free will 3) true love 4) predestination so I can see where we differ. Again, I only present the facts. What evaluations you make of God and Religion are your own, and I will neither help nor obstruct you in making those personal evaluations. However, continuing the trend of thought that God is a hypocrite, wouldn't he be doing exactly what a hypocrite should do by writing that he is benevolent the Bible, which is his book? I kind of altered my position for the worse in my previous post. What I should have said is that Christianity is an establishment, not a science. Science is constantly updated, so, naturally, majority belief may not equal correct belief. Establishments, however, remain the same throughout time, and their validity (within their own realm) depends upon their popularity. So, yes, within Christianity, the amount of people who believe in a certain topic is important towards that topic's status in the establishment. However, the most important argument for Predestination is still that it is explicitly stated in the bible.

You ignored what I wrote underneath my source: Whether or not God is a hypocrite, a control-freak, a is your personal opinion. I only present you with the facts. You still don't understand. Because of Predestination, Man cannot make anything on his own. Anything that Man thinks he makes was planned by God. I only provided that percentage because you asked to see proof of majority. I do not base whether or not Predeterminism is correct on the amount of people who believe in it. I argue that it is correct because it is written in the Bible.

You think you have made a certain choice, but God already made this choice for you when he created you. How is that contradictory? You keep saying "so God is a hypocrite?" and "so God is a ?" What do you expect me to do? Erase Predestination verses from the Bible? God made everything, including evil. His desired kind of believer is simply the kind that experiences true love. It's not as specific a desire as you think it is. Percentage of Christians who are not Protestants: 82% Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/xx.html (Go to the Religion section and divide percent of protestants by total percent of christians, then subtract from 100).

Here is the definition of True Love from allaboutgod.com: Wouldn't it have been easier and nicer to create mankind as inherently good? Well, God's purpose with mankind is to have eternal fellowship with those who truly love Him. Therefore, to create us as inherently good robots, without the potential for the opposite character, evil, would not allow for true love. For only love that comes from a free choice of the will is TRUE LOVE. Voluntary choice is the key - love isn't genuine if there's no other option. Please note that the writer makes the mistake of thinking choice is free rather than illusionary. He has clearly not read the parts in the bible about Predestination. You think you're making the choice, but God planned for you to make the choice. That is why it is called the "illusion of choice." God represents neither good nor evil. God created good and evil. His ultimate goal is to create his desired kind of believer. If they are flawed, then please tell me what the flaws are. Definitions of what? If you're saying that my definition of Predestination is made up, I assure you that it is not. It is in the Bible, and it is supported by the majority of all Christian sects as well as 100% of all Catholics. Please show me where this happened.

Slip a little somethin somethin in her drinkie and make her go to sleep and then lock her in your closet with regular doses of chloroform and then carry her to homecoming and prop her up an dance with her and tell her that you will be with her forever. It worked for me.

Not in Biblical language. There is the illusion of choice. Whenever you do things like say a curse or donate money to charity, you think that you are making the free choice to do so, but it is really God who decided, when he made you, each of those choices that you will make. His intention is that you experience both the good and the evil, so that your love for him will not be a smooth, automatic love - it will be a "true" love. I didn't say that. I said the majority of Christians and Catholics believe in Predestination. They may not like to think of the bad part of Predestination, and they may not even have realized or been taught the bad part. However, that does not excuse them from it. If you were an administrative officer in the Nazi party, someone who worked in an office building and did not have any contact with the concentration camps, you would probably be more inclined to think of the "purifying the race" aspect of the Final Solution rather than the "gassing Jews" aspect. As I have said, you have the illusion of choice. God already decided who among the population will become believers and experience true love. The majority of your religion disagrees with you. The "loves the world" statement in the Bible would be an example of the "good" elements that God places on this Earth. Whether or not this is a hypocrisy is up to you. ...I think I've been answering your questions as directly as I can. I even dissect each part of your posts and respond to them specifically. If you think I have given a vague answer to any of your questions, please ask me that question again.

Yes. And this is not a matter of vagueness within the bible. Predestination is explicitly stated in numerous verses.