Earth_Poet

Allow me to help you out. We'll keep that in mind. Thanks. ;)

[hide=quelmotz] There will always be people who love money, and I don't care if you hate them or whatever, you still don't have a right to criticise them. Merchanting isn't a freaking illegal activity!!!!!!!!! No, I'm not defending merchants, nor am I a merchant myself. Merchanting is basically buy low sell high. So if you buy two hundred pieces of land for $1000 each, and sell them for $1200 each, you ARE merchanting, so that's illegal? What the [bleep]? If so, many legitimate businessmen will be in jail for doing NOTHING wrong. [/hide] First off, name calling and spitting in people's faces may be excessive, but we do have a right to criticize merchants as much as we have a right to criticize anything else we feel strongly against. Merchanting isn't an illegal activity. Okay, I can give you that one. The problem is we've confused our definition of what a merchant really is since the release of the GE. Since the GE, merchants have become obsolete for the most part. Today's "merchants" have evolved into more of investors, and it involves more than just a "buy low - sell high" strategy as you are stating. Now, investors are legal. Technically speaking, price manipulation itself can be considered legal. If I see a greater demand in the market for yew logs, and I start cutting yews, eventually my stock hitting the market is going to stabilize the price of yews, even lower them. That can be considered price manipulation. When we are talking about merchants, and we are talking about price manipulators, we are talking about something else. There is another form of price manipulation that occurs that IS illegal. When the actions are both disrupting the flow of supply and demand, AND disrupting the value of a product, that is illegal. If the legitimate businessman you speak of began using the same practices that merchant clans are, you would see them fined, in jail, or both. The United States has several incidents very similar, one of which even managed to destroy the reputation of a President. [hide=hihihi727] [/hide] You're comparing price abuse to actual aspects of the game. Both the "dragon slayer" and pvping scenario you present involve competition, which is healthy both for the game, and the game's economy. The sole purpose of a "manipulating clan" is to ELIMINATE competition through cooperation to corner the market. It abuses the intent of the trade system. Individually, it disrupts players from wishing to make personal trades to get their needed items in the game. On a macro level, the trends of many prices look as if they are on a roller coaster, and the market will eventually lose stability if merchant clans continue to increase their activity. If we do wind up with stricter price gaps, or even set prices, you will be the one to blame. There is a difference between wanting some extra cash and pure greed. How much is enough money? 100M? 1000M? Maxed cash? Six piles of maxed cash?

You also left enough open for discussion, and pointed out that there are more reasons for price fluctuations than merchant clans alone. I commend you for that. I disagree though that MCs counter inflation. Inflation is countered by removing gp from the economy. In this instance, it's merely being transferred from one player to another, leaving the money still in play. Also, MCs who price manipulate aren't reacting to [bleep]es in demands, they are creating artificial demands by restricting supply. Essentially, they are the ones responsible for the "price peaks" instead of the other way around. Putting it simply, price manipulators are creating an invisible tax on an item for their own nefarious gains.

I started picturing something along the lines of Stephen King's The Dark Tower. It's an interesting concept. I'd keep working on it. Remember your possessive nouns: people's, traveler's, etc. There are a few places I found confusing. "The plains of life" went over my head. Was this a metaphor for something? You use a couple of archaic words (nigh, mayhap) for what I'm guessing is to make it "sound" poetic. For me, it's distracting. "As people all scream and run to the stars" I didn't understand that. The stars? :-s The ending also is a little puzzling. What is the midnight train that seals the traveller's fate, and makes the Earth shake?

IMO, the only line worth keeping. These last two lines saved the poem. Everything else sounded like worn-out cliches. Your comma-spliced sentence is disappointing. You put in no effort? :thumbdown:

Not a cartel. More restrictions on everybody isn't the answer either. If you set it at 5m items, they'll just start "merching" 4m items. I've noticed manipulation occurs more common on lower priced items that you can buy massive bulks of such as potions, seeds, etc.

Lamps, for your info, give more Summoning experience than your charm reward will. Nope... :roll: Anyways, Lamps. Wait... Charms > Lamps for Summoning experience? Depends on what your Summoning level is. OT: Lamps, of course.

I have zero sympathy for someone who complains that they can't buy at med. The problem isn't merchers -- the problem is you're a cheapskate. Sorry that I don't want to pay 600k extra, I just don't like to waste it like that. I rest my case. What case? He doesn't want to buy something above its true value? Are you suggesting that it's smarter to make impulsive, "gotta-have-it-now" buys? He's trying to be smart with his money. He sees there's an artificial demand being created by manipulators, and he doesn't want to be taken advantage of. Maybe you should elaborate whatever point you were trying to make, because right now you make no sense at all. You'd be a used car salesman's dream customer the way you are handing out advice. Pump-and-Dump is more about creating speculation in the market by sending out false information bolstering a particular stock. I see where you are making similarities though. As for everything else I liked your post. You should post more often! You're a [wagon]. He may have said it like a thug, but he is right. It's the GE system that is the inherent problem. It doesn't mean that merchant clans aren't guilty of abusing it though.

Edit: didn't realize I was reading a post from 2006. It seems every week now somebody is going through the graveyard and pulling up dead threads. This. I am one of those people that found it impossible to complete with a guide. Even then, I was unable to do it with just one guide. Some guides left a few things out or were worded confusing at places. It took three separate guides open for me to finish it. With the guides it still took me about 8 hours to complete. What can I say? I sucked at that puzzle. After all the guides to carry me through all of the puzzles, I tried so hard to buy a death talisman from somebody, but nobody would sell to me and I was forced to go on a scavenger hunt at the end. MEP2 was long, dangerous, and had very challenging puzzles.

:thumbsup: Congratualations

I wasn't going to respond to the previous post, but since you felt like calling me an idiot, I have to say something. Honestly, I don't know who you think you are. Every single academic class I've taken over the last 3 years that required any kind of research paper begins on the first day with a warning not to cite wikipedia as a source, otherwise it's an automatic "F" for the paper. There have been several incidents of incredible information, and plagiarism posted on the site. A couple of years ago, their most prominent editor was exposed for being a fraud. Because there is controversy over the accuracy of information posted on wikipedia, it can't be considered credible to cite your information from there. Reading your comments that you follow up with, you don't even sound sure of how wikipedia works. How are you calling me an idiot then? You are going to try and shoot me down with what - your best guesses? It used to be that ANYBODY could edit the articles. Now it's restricted to registered users. They also have editors to check over the articles. It can be a good site to look at for personal knowledge, but shouldn't be the only place you look. I will concede that wikipedia is usually correct, but you should've taken the time to read what I had said instead of throwing insults. I said it isn't ALWAYS a reliable source. Sorry, but I'm going to have to say that what Jagex posts directly on the Runescape website is going to be a more credible source than wikipedia. This has gone way off topic now, and I apologize to this week's authors. I'm done responding to ignorant posters.

Wikia/Wikipedia isn't always a reliable source. It even says on the front page, "The wiki...that anyone can edit!" Just backing what you said up with a credible source.

Abyssal whip is 4, Godsword is 3, Dharok's Axe is 2, and I think that the fastest (darts) is 7. according to wikia abyssal whip's speed - 6 , so it attacks every 2.4 seconds (6 sec - 0,6xspeed) GodSword - 4 , so it attacks every 3.6 seconds Dharok's Axe - 3 , every 4.2 seconds and the darts is indeed 7 , so it attacks every 1.8 seconds According to Jagex's KB, and they use a graphic scale: Whips are 6 Daggers are 6 Claws are 6 Godswords are 4 Dharok's Axes are 3 2-Handed Swords are 3 Further info found here: http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=2010

I wish Pillow Talk could've been longer.

And their weapon. It's a bit more random than that I think. A Godsword has +132 slash bonus while I could pile on around +300 slash defense in Armor. Think of it as rolling dice: If you attack me, then we each roll our dice; your dice represents your attack level + any attack bonus you have, and my dice represents my defense level + any defense or armor bonuses I have. If I win the roll then that's the end of it and you hit a zero. If you win the roll then you get to roll a second set of dice representing your strength level + any strength bonuses. This second roll determines how hard you will hit me. I have no way of negating your strength roll. This is just for a melee-based example. Magic and Range would have to be taken into account for their respective combat styles.

[/hide] Do I win? You're wrong. Armor doesn't lower the damage at all. Both defense and armor lowers the chance of getting hit, basically get hit with nothing or everything. Armor and Defense do the same thing, contrary to what you said. I think Inuashakent is right. What I quoted from Jagex says that Defense + Armor combine to effect the chance of being hit at all. It says nothing about effecting how hard you will be hit. In my experience, this seems to be correct.

That sentence confused the hell outta me. Lol, dude that is definitely one horrible sentence, I don't even get it - very sorry for that. I don't know if I wrote that, or if it's an editing hiccup. :P I think it's trying to say that when the partnership deal was created or made public...etc, go on into the next sentence. It was an editing goof. I just looked it over. Sorry, skatedog, that one was on us. The sentence should've read like this: "Eventually, Tip.It announced a partnership with Jagex."

I'll admit that I haven't gone through all of your posts on this thread, so I'm not going to get in the middle of that part of the argument. I just want to address your last post. No, runescape isn't a part of real life. However, what you do in the game has an impact on other aspects in the game. Saying that it's only a game doesn't absolve you from the consequences. If I curse out a child and tell him the world will be better off without him, I don't know the child's state of mind, nor what impact my words will have on him. The point is, that our player interactions within the community do have consequences. The Runescape economy is rather simplified compared to real world economics. We don't have a futures market, bonds market, etc. But there is an economy going. There are some financial mirrors to the real world. If we are going to have a successful economy in operating in Runescape, then it makes sense to borrow models that work in the real world, and have guidelines that represent lessons learned from the real world. Jagex's intention is to have an economy based on supply and demand. They didn't make that up. This is a situation where we can be on opposite sides of the fence on this issue, and still agree on something. I agree that Jagex needs to make their position clear. You're right. To completely eradicate manipulation, the only true solution is to have fixed prices. That's not a reasonable solution though. The other answer is to lift the trade caps, but then that invites back in RWT. That's the real rock and hard place situation here. Unless Jagex chooses to undercut merchant clans, we're in a tough spot. Price manipulation was much, much more difficult to achieve prior to GE. Prices on most items tended to have a fixed range that players would trade in. Most merchants operated by finding good bargains, and reselling them at higher end prices. It was difficult to buy out an item, and to do it anonymously like you can now. You'd pretty much have to be on the forums 24/7 and scouring World 2, even then it was difficult to have all sellers funneling their goods into your pockets. The GE's system makes it much easier to do that, and because of the universal prices, all traders have to conform to what the GE says. Since you decided to bring up real world economics at this point in your argument, you can't retract and say it is irrelevant. If Jagex decides to step in and fix prices, then you are absolutely right. However, even free market societies have fair trade rules, and the government has stepped in to curb practices very similar to what merchant clans are doing today. The Hunt Silver Manipulation is a very good case. When you undermine the liquidity of the item as well as the true value of an item, it disrupts the confidence in the market. Personally, I really don't want to see you, or anybody who shares this opinion to leave the game. I play the game for the community, and to get into debates like this. I want the practice to stop, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. However, if the only enjoyment you get out of Runescape is through price manipulation, then have fun on Oblivion.

It's an honor to have a chance to work alongside a great staff. I hope we can maintain the high standard of the Times. Thanks for the warm welcome!

This is as close as I could find in the KB concerning the GE: I know it seems weak, but the statement implies that price manipulation is against their policies. Furthermore, it also states that Jagex reserves the right to step in and intervene at their discretion. They used to have a stronger stance about price manipulation posted in the forums before the GE came out (where most market activity took place at that time), but my guess is that Jagex saw the GE as some perfect, flawless system that is was no longer needed to warn players about price manipulation. Today, Jagex's position is very confusing because there's a lot of murky water here. While I don't agree with the merchant clans practices, I can also understand their anger. Nobody has proven that limpwurt prices were deliberately changed, but if they were then it shows cowardice. I have a hard time believing that one lone mod would risk his career to change prices in a video game. However, if Jagex is frowning upon price manipulation then they need to just come out and say it. Whatever their position is, they need to make it clear and public. Jagex has ignored this argument far too long, and now there's going to be angry players no matter what side they take.

The duping was from a player using third party software to manipulate the servers. His original intention was to figure out a way to trade scythes in the game. He never figured it out, but did figure out how to create new items.

I'm pretty lenient these days about reporting people. In fact, I can't remember the last time I actually reported somebody. I've never reported a friend for anything either. To me, it seems that you were joking anyways. That seemed pretty obvious. Look on the bright side, maybe you got Zezima banned, too. :lol: Kidding of course.

But a ponzi scheme isn't price manipulation. To put it bluntly, it's just a con. Merchant clans buy up a dominant share of an item in order to restrict supply and raise the price. That's actually textbook definition of cornering the market. A monopoly isn't really price manipulating, it's more of a market system, and an oligopoly might be a more accurate term. Agreed. Debating the name is rather trivial. It is unethical practice. Even free trade markets have laws against this sort of behavior, and for very good reason. This would be an example of insider trading: I'm a Jmod who plays the game (or I know one personally) and I got whiff of an update to be released next week that is going to put item X into great demand. What's the first thing I'd do? I'd buy up all of item X that I could until the update is released, and then sell off once the price skyrockets. It is true that some of the merchant clans, not all because I don't want to demonize them all in this particular fashion, are organized where the leaders know what they plan on doing secretly and use their lower members as puppets. However, they don't have any insider information other than what their own actions will be. And that's closer to the definition of a collusion.

They aren't getting privy information. They are getting the same information about product prices that we all get. Insider trading is more reactive. Clan merchanting takes a more active approach to manipulate the prices.