howbadisbad

Yeah, pretty much lol I don't even want to comment on this because I know bad things will happen.

Rapier because it is by far the best.

K. Although I will not be at full capacity of what I could be, without an arcane stream i should still be able to beat you. I should be on around 11-12 EST, you? RSN is 'Divine Stew' btw.

Yet my post was not intended to answer anything, just to tell you how wrong you are. Gratz on assuming things without experience! It's what people in the rants forum of the RSOF do best. #-o

You want to add another reward to the abomination Jamflex calls Dungeoneering because you think picking up charms is a penalty. Negative support. :thumbdown: Yes ok point taken :) enough hating please, thanks. And picking up charms is a penalty, because everyone has to right-click now to see if there is anything worth picking up. This wasn't the case before Summoning. Also, I personally don't like Dungeoneering myself, in fact I'm training it with lamps, penguin points, tears of guthix and books of knowledge, but this item has been on my mind for quite sime time now, and I think it would be a nice reward whether you hate the skill or not :) Well since training the "Skill" without playing the actual minigame is useless and won't get you closer to this item I don't know what you are trying to say.

Lmfao. You fail insanely. Range is FAR WORSE when it comes to fighting mages. Especially in places like clan wars or fight pits where people with skill go. Calling Dungeoneering a skill is a joke. Stop attacking other posters with little to back up your opinion. You said nothing to justify range is worse than melee against mages even when it is a ridiculous claim. if you hate dungeoneering as a skill so much, why don't fully concept something better instead of spreading hate. There is tons of evidence to back up the fact that dungeoneering is not a skill and I have repeated it so many times to people I wonder how Jagex has brainwashed them. Ridiculous claim? Lmfao. Come to dual arena with range and I will wreck you so hard with magic you will cry irl. WIth 99 range I know what it can do, and it can't do much. I generally think that common knowledge need not be posted when I talk, but I was wrong because some people believe Jamflex when they say stuff like "Dungeoneering is a skill" and "Range defeats Magic" Relying on what Jagex states is one of the worst things you can ever do. Just ask the KB and how many wrong entries have been placed on it.

^^ Changed for more truth But on topic. Yes MA is in the top 10 of Jagex's greatest fails. (Along with Dungeoneering.) Has anyone else noticed that Jagex tries to implement good rewards to make up for their half assed updates, making people feel forced to play them for the rewards?

Lmfao. You fail insanely. Range is FAR WORSE when it comes to fighting mages. Especially in places like clan wars or fight pits where people with skill go. have fun fighting thatage with your whip while he's busting 450s from 5 squares away. When your rune cbow can't hit that mage either and when you do get unfrozen you won't hit very much since range is so weak. If the magic splashes then the melee can mass huge amounts of damage faster and far more accurately than range could ever dream of.

thats easy! i would rather face the player by far. revs can attack me when im not in a pvp world killing green dragons... :thumbdown: Yet Jamflex states the wilderness should be a dangerous place and that revs are replacements for pkers. There is no danger in the wilderness atm. Just these fat floating things that can teleblock you and then get stuck behind something or fail to hit damage on you. Then, if you bother to kill then you get like 50 gp! What a great pker simulation. I say this when I am piled by 4 knights and the chaos ele at the lvl 50 tele and they fail to hit remotely decent damage on me.

Lmfao. You fail insanely. Range is FAR WORSE when it comes to fighting mages. Especially in places like clan wars or fight pits where people with skill go. Calling Dungeoneering a skill is a joke.

You want to add another reward to the abomination Jamflex calls Dungeoneering because you think picking up charms is a penalty. Negative support. :thumbdown:

No support. 1. We don't need more crap to make us feel like we are forced to play the minigame "Dungeoneering" for the rewards. 2. Stop being so damn lazy and pick up your drops. 3. This will also make combat bots run wild probably (even more so than now?). 4. Ahhh, attempting to copy other items... It worked so well for range right? (handcannon = godsword?? Chaotic cbow = Bronze dagger?? :wall: )

From what i've experienced, different bolts recover at different percentages. Broads 70% or less Dragon 75-80% Diamond 85-90% Ruby 90+% ^ Approximations based on my experience using range.

This can be done with beta testing worlds, rather than small clumps of individuals. Any chance you can answer my question please? If you are asking what the difference between small groups of experienced players and a bunch of random people it is probably the fact that small groups have a much less chance of leaking (Jagex's pet peeve?) and the rest is stated below (beta world = regular release) also with beta worlds you will get alot of noobs who have no idea what they are talking about trying to judge the update. (like right now if someone said range was overpowered that is the kind of stuff you would get from beta worlds) So let me get this straight. You're unhappy with all players involved in beta testing? If Jagex state 'we have added some new worlds (put numbers here) and we'd like as many players as possible to test (put whatever you want here), you'd disagree with this? How am I unhappy with all players in beta testing? Where did you get that assumption from? I am merely stating that opening up a "beta world" is almost the exact same thing as releasing it into the real game. Shame that. The time invested in crappy updates such as that could be used better in other areas. Fixing dungeoneering perhaps as they could spend their time better? Well since the agil update came out before dung no, but I get the gist of what you are saying. Personally I would compare the times to implement them. If dung would take tons of time to fix you might as well put in agility as long as it doesn't take long to implement. What makes you think it will be better? No guarantees, possible increases in price manipulation and possible increased subscription fee to cover the costs. Just so I'm sure, you're against worlds being set up for all players to beta test new things, rather than trying to regulate a select group of players? Adding a world for testing wouldn't rise up costs and what they lose in cash for beta testing should be made up in the steady stream of new members due to good updates.

So what makes you think anything will change by using small sections of players as beta testers? By your accounts nothing or very little will be done anyway. Back to square one. Why do you need xp/items or whatever when testing, unless you're trying to get some advantage by doing it?Beta tester: hey dungeoneering seems a lot like a minigame, what gives? *now Jagex fixes* :thumbup: If you're going to debate properly, at least do me the courtesy of acting like a grown up and watching your manners. Its leaks that start the rumors, rumor spreads and that leads to the not so nice things previously discussed. On the day of release we should all be on a level playing field, which avoids clans/ players manipulating prices weeks/months in advance. Again I point out that you state that Jagex do not act quickly enough to patch things, so that includes more delays for releases, so we're back to square one. Jagex can't win in the end because if they took the extra time to do any form of player testing the delays just cause players to whinge too. Leaks don't start rumors because if the thing is leaked then people already know what it is and the only "rumors" are more like speculation and what players want from the update.If it is leaked it is also on a level playing field since leaking would mean that the information to be kept secret becomes available to everyone. I would rather have a complete update than a half completed one. Jagex has stated many times that they aren't in it for the money they just want the game to be the best it can be, so why not do beta testing even if it uses more time and money, they have stated their ultimate goal and it is time for them to act like it is a goal. I guess some people do want it easy then. No it just makes it a lot more practical.

I appreciate the last few posts on here have put an end to the player beta test argument, but for the sake of debate then do worlds full of beta testing. No unfair advantages and players can pick and choose if they want to. Uhhh what? Like make a world for beta testing? (ex world 171 is beta test world and doesn't affect your account) pointless imo. You might aswell just release it and then take forever to patch it. (what jagex currently does.) No leak is ever good if it's supposed to stay private until release. Leaks also start rumors too which can aid the manipulator clans and that's not small considering the amount of players who (profess to) despise them. Correct, I think there would be exploitation if beta testing involved a limited number of players. Why? Because of player greed and vanity, which is rife in the game. I personally despise this more than a few bad updates. It's not a rumor if it's leaked for starters. And while greed and manipulation can mess up the ge for a little while before it is released, the same thing will happen on the day of release so your point is stupid. While ge prices only last a little while, bad updates can last anywhere from months to years to get patched, knowing Jagex. I could mention today's update.....but I'll not go there. I don't wish to infuriate some of the Jagex haters around here :wink: Imo they should fix Dung before they start updating other things. Edit - Forgot to mention I thought the agility update was crap. It makes lazy players even lazier by forgiving them training skills (flogged to death on the 'how easy do you want it' thread. But, I agree the HP update was pointless. Forgiving them training skills? What the hell are you talking about? The agility update was AWESOME. Who doesn't want to run longer and have better weight reducing gear?

Sorry for the double post. The update upset players because it didn't fit into any nice and neat bracket that players are used to or they couldn't max it out within one week. Personally I think dungeoneering will be improved as they got a lot of feedback about it. They'll change whats necessary and that will be that. On the subject of being a customer you can vote with your feet. If you're unhappy you don't keep paying your dues. If I'm unhappy with, lets say my ISP, I change it instead of grumbling about it month after month. That's why I find the concept of 'complain complain complain' so amusing. If you feel you're not getting the service you want then you simply cancel your subscription. Of course we all want good updates, but i'd prefer them without the leaks. I'd also like to add that most of the updates have been fine. Picking on a few not so great updates doesn't make the whole system crap. 1. But why would they release it only half-made and looking like someone took stealing creation, made it pvm, and then polished it a bit? Obviously the solution is beta testers for that. 2. You always look at leaks as a bad thing too. Why? You say that beta testing is bad because economical updates would be exploited by said testers. If things were leaked then there is no such advantage (maybe a small one) and players can outline what they think will happen in the next update and how it should be. <- Jagex reads these things and conforms the new (skill in this case) to something that matches what players want. MY NEW SKILL IDEA = EXPLORING based on if dung was leaked somewhat Different dungeons around Runescape requiring certain exploring levels to get into, there are unique enemies and bosses in these dungeons that drop the dung rewards and more. At level 75 or so you unlock some grandmaster quest which leads to a new continent and so it continues... <-- off the top of my head while writing this post so it obviously isn't perfect. 3. A few not so great updates? The last GOOD update we had was probably the agility update. Perfectly implemented and extremely helpful to all players. Updates to things that are fine as they are should only be made if the update will make those things better. So for example the hp update was extremely pointless except for advertising to children who think big numbers are cool while Jagex tells us that they will release a future update to change hp again. Why? Why not just release them both at the same time and not screw up pvp and other things? Pointless update that could have been good if both halves were released together.

This makes no sense. How do players find the glitches currently in the live game? Because they want to play it. When we find glitches and imbalances, we arent saying "Okay...now what can I do to break the game?" We just play it and we find stuff thats wrong. Dungeoneering has its issues and I accept that. But are things really that bad in the game? We wouldn't be playing if they were. That is why most people don't do dungeoneering as of right now, because it is a minigame with a skill framework thrown onto it. Jagex would have foreseen this flaw easily if they did beta testing with people who played runescape. And before you say "if it is so bad don't play rs" think for a second. When you buy something and that item is defective, do you just throw it away and end it there? No. You return it and complain. You paid for it and you deserve what you paid for. With Runescape you can't get a refund so the only thing left to do is complain (or rant). You are a customer and you have every right to complain if what you are paying for is not worth the cash. Obviously there is still enough content in Runescape for people to do other things but eventually you will run out and be forced to wait for new content. You don't want content like dungeoneering right after you max out. You want good updates and you should do what it takes to get them. EDIT: Would you rather have good updates (that may get leaked) or would you like dungeoneering2 and be "Surprised"?

Why? The world may never know. The best I can come up with is suspense. But then you get disappointed with an update like dungeoneering and the rants forums go crazy.

You are absolutely wrong because there is something called a safe zone that you seem to overlook every time you post. Range can't KO. So the opponent runs safe once he is out. obby rings/kxbow for DPS to get to low hp. Morrigans javs/obby bolts at low hp for kos. Even without veng at 118 combat I find it ridiculously easy to get KOs with range. Lol then the people you fight obviously suck and you are one lucky noob, I have used javs so many times with full hide just to have them hit 0's or below 20. Obby rings almost never hit someone with decent defense and i haven't tried kbow for 1v1 tbh. javs have +105 range attack...there pretty damn accurate. My max with them is around 520 I think. Usually I 'brid with them, huck it right as I unfreeze, switch to dds and stack on hits for easy kills. rings combined with zammy book are +77 and kbow is +84. Both of thoughs are sufficient to hit on rune. Obviously your stating statistics and not giving answers based on experience. In MY MANY experiences with jav specs, very few manage to hit high, if they hit at all. Dds are melee. And rings are god awful once your past lvl 100+.

You are absolutely wrong because there is something called a safe zone that you seem to overlook every time you post. Range can't KO. So the opponent runs safe once he is out. obby rings/kxbow for DPS to get to low hp. Morrigans javs/obby bolts at low hp for kos. Even without veng at 118 combat I find it ridiculously easy to get KOs with range. Lol then the people you fight obviously suck and you are one lucky noob, I have used javs so many times with full hide just to have them hit 0's or below 20. Obby rings almost never hit someone with decent defense and i haven't tried kbow for 1v1 tbh.

You are absolutely wrong because there is something called a safe zone that you seem to overlook every time you post. Range can't KO. So the opponent runs safe once he is out.

Lvl 112

Jagex like to keep updates to themselves to keep the game fresh. It'll spoil any updates/skills/quests for everyone. Thats what NDAs are for... There's no way players would keep it under wraps. Be realistic. You'd never trust ANY of them as far as you can throw them. Most companies don't trust their own employees never mind their customers. How would all this be a benefit? The best feedback is from the overall general population, not a few players who all of a sudden think they're bonafide games testers. They already have all the games testers they need via the population of the game. Sure, not everything goes right at times but thats why we have the forums for bug submission and feedback. A handful of players won't give you this or feedback from the general population as a whole. Some bugs or flaws don't become apparent for months. You are just flat out wrong here. As with combat changes most people are melee based so when combat changes that make melee overpowering come out (turmoil) with range and mage getting nothing, then that is not a good way to get feedback. The best way would be to handpick players who are experienced with such things (Like famous pkers should beta test pking updates) so you get the best information from all aspects. Considering the size of the game, Jagex do a pretty good job at getting most things right. I would have to disagree here... especially about recent updates. Jagex should have beta testers so we don't get more updates like "Dungeoneering"

I get heated over it because PvP is a major part of my RS playstyle, and I think this (the OP's suggestion) would do the opposite of help. Your ideas decent although it would mess with PvM. It wouldnt make zerker pures overpowered because if they are in void they risk their whip. The low def of their armor and their stats balances out the power they gain so nothing is imbalanced. risking a whip isnt as much risk as you seem to think. Most zerker pures I know (actually the only one I know well is lvl 56 n00b and hes not zerker anymore), have no problem with risking a whip. It helps them more then say a range tank because their armor has low defense to begin with. Lol famous people with vids are generally rich compared to 95% of other players in their category. I don't get what your second statement is saying. Range has much less def bonus than meleers. not generally. Also most higher level pkers can make 2m+ per hour and have 100m+ banks. If your tanking right in ranged, you should have higher defense bonuses then a meleer with comparable risk. DFS+T legs+T helm+black d'hide body beats rune+whip+defender hands down. EDIT: 56 is famous? I know about him. Tanking doesn't win fights. Ko power does. High lvl pkers don't use void, they use vesta's if they want damage. and as I stated earlier ko power means nothing if your constantly eating. A mix of defense, accuracy, a KO potential would. Void is moderatly high in two of these things and low in the other. You should never be constantly eating, not even 99 range with a fast weapon like knives can make zerkers or pures constantly eat. Eventually they will hit low damage and you can take the offensive making your point obsolete. with 99 defense and max defense gear I've been combo'd to death many a time, even without specials. Low defense would only increase this chance. Sure, youll surrive the first 3 hits shark->brewing but after that? your pretty screwed. Why do you think zerkers pwn tanks? Because they take the offensive and defense is so [developmentally delayed]ed in this game it doesn't really matter if they have 45.