Erewhon2

Shouldn't be worth that much? I bet those selling them wouldn't agree :wink: As soon as the price goes up on something I normally hunt/gather/harvest that product to make a profit. Thats part of the game, and when everyone has done that the price usually starts to fall again. I really don't understand why you don't go and hunt them yourself, especially as you don't need that many of them. Why are you in such a hurry? In the time you've been waiting and ranting about buying them you could have got your own.

The article about fire could have made some further suggestions about how this skill could diversify, it only speculated on xp gain for current uses (i.e. cooking). So I felt it had good potential as an article, but didn't quite get there. The 'Favourite Things' article, was a delight to read, having recently seen so many negatives about updates and changes....it was wonderful to see someone writing about how the updates worked well for them. I felt that the 'Open Letter to Mark Gerhard' had strong and weak points. It's strength lay in trying to ascertain that no further game content was going to be removed from F2P and I felt that was a fair thing to ask. Its weak areas were its meaningless use of stats and declaring that the article represented the views of 7,500,000 active free players , I would have liked to have seen the survey sent to all these players!

You're just restating your point, which I understood already, without addressing the issues that I raised with it. The main one being: even if you don't take advantage of member's worlds, by becoming a member you'll look like you are, which is a negative to f2p purists. Yes...obviously. You already said that. Why did you repeat it? Perhaps you are confused, for most people it's mainly about money, but for some it's not. You have to address each group of people with arguments that address their arguments, no single argument will suffice for alll groups. Ok, I see what you are saying. Particularly in relation to the posts since then. I think I just wasn't 'getting' the stance (not sure I am now either :huh: ). The attempts since then to answer my original query have just made it more confusing to me. In a number of threads, not just this one, people have generalised their interpretation of long term F2P players as though all had the same issues or standpoint. I should have realised that as usual, posters are attempting to ensure everyone thinks their opinion is the right one and the only one. So for some it is about not paying the money and they live in cardboards shacks (lol!), in which case why do they complain when they have so much for free? For others it appears to be about the challenge, and in that instance my original point still stands. There are bound to be other reasons too....all of which I am sure can be argued ;-)

Both sites have been very clear about copyright and that should be upheld by everyone. On topic but slightly at a tangent, I have to say that Runescape's own wiki does not appeal to me. I've had a look around and I don't like it's layout, it is still new so maybe it will improve in time but at this stage I can't see me using it much, if at all. :???:

I thought I should respond to this, if new players joining F2P talking and having fun does not make F2P 'living'.....what does? I thought the the whole aspect of this part of the debate was that there were no new players coming in and therefore F2P was dead or dying. Hence my screenshots were to evidence that F2P was alive and well. I'm not sure how you can then class my evidence as being valid, yet not supporting the point? Either it's valid or it isn't. Now I cannot easily prove that these are new players to RS, anymore than others can prove that they are 2nd accounts or gold farmers. Having said that I have chatted to people playing (I'm usually in the cow field at the moment turning bones to bananas), I have had people asking where the shop is, where is Varrock, where is the map, how do they find out what their combat level is, etc, etc...sound like new players to you? They certainly did to me. I'm not on there that much but when I am, I'll try to capture some more random screenshots where people are speaking 'noob'.

Well, they can't really just wave a magic wand and become a fee-paying F2P community, they'd have to lobby Jagex to implement some kind of system for that. Perhaps one where they get members bank size, no ads on F2P worlds, and show on highscore as "special F2P only contributor"-- but can't log in to members worlds, use members skills/items, and on official forums they show as "f2pworld membership" or something. Obviously someone in an F2P community isn't going to want to buy membership without that, they'll look like they "cheated" or whatever you'd call it. So if your question is meant to be exactly that: why aren't the "serious" f2p'ers lobbying for such a system, if it's not about not paying for the game...then yes, I agree completely, why aren't they? I'd argue that they feel entitled after this long. I guess I'm confused by this statement. If money is the issue, it throws out ONE argument, that it's not about the money. How does it throw out "all the other arguments"? That argument isn't even all that common. I think one of the points that many F2P's have made is about playing the F2P game as it stands; because it's 'harder' and more of a 'challenge', so changing it would negate that. Hence my point of pay a membership fee, to get highscores etc. But keep the difficulty by only playing on free F2P worlds. Not for me, but it is an option. My other point was that if not paying for membership was mainly about money, then the arguments about being a 'pure F2P' on principle, or playing F2P because it is a better game or better community etc...would be questionable ('throws out' may have been a bit strong :wink: )

I'd estimate that about a third of my work for Wikipedia has been spent dealing with vandals or people who add content that is against its guidelines, and therefore needs removing. I know people on there who spend their entire time on Wikipedia dealing with said nuisances, and as such they can't contribute meaningfully to article improvement. It's nice to imagine an altruistic world where everyone does want to help each other by collating their knowledge and sharing it with everyone else, however, I know from personal experience that it takes one *hell* of a lot of work to do that successfully without others ruining it back down again. At least on Wikipedia, I can fall back on WP:V to remove incorrect/contentious content, or WP:NOTE for stuff that's completely useless, and if that fails, I can just get someone else to back me up through WP:Consensus. I would hate to imagine dealing with the same issues on this new RS Wiki, because I know if I tried to fix whatever's wrong, some other idiot will just wreck it again. If I'm giving my time to help other players, I should do it in the knowledge that the organisation (Jagex in this case) is backing up the work I do and protecting it from people who want to destroy my efforts. I think your point is well made, I agree that if you are putting the effort in it needs to work both ways.

Firstly apologies for the delay in responding... I can't give you stats I told you that (and stats are likely to be incorrect because of the loss of bots), I only have my own experience, these screen shots were taken in a few moments of each other. You show me how this indicates that f2p is dying? Can you see that players are queuing to kill cows? They appear to have run out of goblins too :grin: Look at the number of white dots! And not a bot in sight, these are all real people, mostly new and enjoying their RS experience. :thumbsup:

I feel I need to add my bit here, for people who like to play RS in a different way. I have never 'powered' through to level 99. I do have 99 thieving, but that's because I enjoy it (I think my xp is around 25m now) and it took me a while to get there. If you enjoy thieving then make sure you don't kill that pleasure off by overdoing one aspect. Create variety, I did some PP, some safes (in Rogues Den) because that helped with my crafting skill, but mostly master farmers because this helped with my farming skill. And I regularly took breaks from it. Use the guide to get you started, then find what works for you. Don't forget you should have fun doing this, so don't forget to do it in the way you find the most enjoyable and if it takes a little longer......does that really matter? :razz:

Well I have to admit it would be a hard to find an appropriate response to our questions...unless money is the issue. But then of course if money was the issue it throws out all the other arguments made. :huh: Why not? Microtransactions. And that's a whole different discussion. Ugh! don't even go down the microtransactions route! Ever played the dying game of War of Legends? People have spent thousands of dollars on that and there is only a hard core of people who play it anymore. As for RS, it's too late to change the structure and nature of the game in that way, possibly it could have worked for RS if anybody had known what microtransactions were when it was originally designed. In the meantime my original query was this: It would be great if someone actually answered it (based on the current game, not microtransactions or changing the structure of the game).

The screen grab you posted doesn't seem to be all that wrong, pretty much of all of it corresponds with better guides I've read and my small amount of time at Glacors Unstable glacyte explosion damage is 33%, not 50%. Enduring glacyte's trait is damage reduction, not defence increase. Sapping glacyte's prayer drain is percentage based, not a fixed amount. Good gravy. And of course, here I sit from my viewpoint, unwilling to edit the guide for them :lol: If it's wrong....correct it, that's the whole point. Eventually it will be totally correct. It's ridiculous to look at it and complain about it being wrong when you have the knowledge and capabilities to correct it, but instead you just sit back and sound 'sulky', you're not editing it for Jagex, you're editing it for other players.

I've asked the same question once too, didn't get a reply to it as far as I know. I still think letting f2p-ers pay 1-2 euro's for the highscores would be reasonable. Well I have to admit it would be a hard to find an appropriate response to our questions...unless money is the issue. But then of course if money was the issue it throws out all the other arguments made. :huh:

Interesting that not one person in this thread have responded to my post.....hmmmm, wonder why? :wink:

You are not alone! I think it's great and I haven't had any of the glitches others seem to have had....maybe I'm lucky? It will take me a little time to get used to it, but it seems to load faster the graphics appear more smooth and generally its appealing, I love how my RS name appears in the A-log font. I enjoyed the old style and didn't have a problem with it, but it was inevitable they would update it and they gave us plenty of warning.

I agree with Kaida23's point :grin: I continue to play, not just for the relaxation but also because I really enjoy all aspects of the game. I'm not someone who powers through to 99, I took over a year to get my 99 farming because I wanted to do it without buying any seeds.....my own personal challenge. I regularly did other things though, quests or some other skilling, maybe a bit of slayer here and there. After this new quest I have found myself going down to the abbey in Al Kharid to just sit in the scriptorium and listen to the music lol. I play the game to suit my mood at the time, that's what is great about RS, you can play it any way you want to.

This. :thumbup: I'm sure most of the F2P community would agree. That's good to hear from both of you :thumbsup: I have no problem with constructive criticism as I have said previously, as you stated Jagex aren't gods and they do make mistakes. What I do have a problem with is unreasonable and inciteful comments and blind hatred (including flaming) disrupting debate.

I think the point is that Jagex have suggested they have got rid of gold sellers main and mule accounts, therefore they will have to start again and will be unable to farm gold with the new ones because of the restrictions, if thats the case that is a moot point. Most people have seen this as a positive update for that reason.

I disagree with your first point, other people earlier on in this thread have clearly stated the positives in the updates, you can go back and see for yourself. The trade limit is only for new players and not comparable to what Jagex did before. So highscores affect you? If you are "pure F2P" for reasons of challenge and its not about money then become a fee paying F2P community, what's the problem? (I have put that point in another thread). A demo has a time limit, RS hasn't....believe it or not, you can actually play it for as long as you want without any penalties. As for new players, I don't have stats if thats what you're asking for. I do have mine and others direct experience of being in F2P since the bot busting....yup I do have an F2P account also. F2P is heaving with new and excited players, declaring they are rich because they have 10k (those were the days :rolleyes: ) and queuing up to kill cows and goblins.

If being F2P is about the challenge of playing the game in a restricted way (strange way to go about it, but your choice) and not in any way about the money. Then why not become a fee paying F2P community? Think carefully about your answer before you reply, and for goodness sake....don't put "why would I pay for a free game?" the answer is above!

It's a bit of a bittersweet story, though. Many of us have invested lots of time and money into this game and company to see it turn out like...this. No one here in their wildest dreams thought that Jagex would go through with such a controversial change [to the high scores] after hearing tons of feedback against it...but that's what happens. You have a point. I realize that RS/Jagex isn't worth stressing over. However, that doesn't mean that I won't call them out every time they do something so eye-gouging stupid. Positives? The only handful of positives with the update may be the leprechaun's limits being relaxed and a "new" forum. Outside of that, there is a staggering amount of negatives. - Runehead and Runetracker, both of which make use of the high scores, cannot be used effectively anymore, unless clans are strictly P2P. - Dynamic signatures everywhere cease to operate on a huge chunk of the community. - Long-standing "pure F2P" players (one of which was acknowledged by MMG himself) can no longer display this amazing accomplishment. So you may have to forgive the community for a few days if it seems like the attitude is negative. I think there are some very real and strong positives in the updates, irrespective of highscores, which after all is only one change. Particularly useful is the trading limit for new players of 25k, they can receive as much as they like, but cannot give anyone more than 25k. Well no legitimate new player is going to have 25k to give away, unless its been given to them in which case they will probably want to keep it! I don't even use a 'dynamic signature' so am totally oblivious as to why that should be an issue. Long standing "pure F2P" players, what does that mean? They are dedicated to playing the game free for as long as possible? They hold a principle that 'Free' is better? F2P are the P2P resistance force? You can't hold to that then get all wound up when Jagex try to finally get you into membership, as stated previously Jagex haven't left F2P out of graphical updates, F2P have even had new quests and tasks added...a huge concession to a free game in my opinion. And in all this the "pure F2P" players act like new players are not worth consideration, well I can assure you there are plenty of new players coming to RS and loving it! As for the negativity, its not just a 'few days', its constant! Its like the dripping tap...repetitive and relentless and doesn't serve any real purpose.

Can't you just quit the forums too instead of sticking around and being a negative nancy? In this economy? Who can't come up with $5, I can't think of a single issue. Its such a small amount of money. How much money do you spend on fast food in a month? Id rather the limit then gold farmers continue and I support this 110%. Oh and btw, I'm sure you'll be back playing in a few weeks or atleast logging on to 'catch up'. Hey, Atleast you can still pretend that you aren't playing now right? :) I'd rather a Negative Nancy than a Bootlicking Billy. <_< Do you know this thread started off so positive, yes with some constructive comments (please note the word 'constructive') but fair all the same. Then in troop the doomsayers, don't Jagex have their own one in Lumbridge? And suddenly RS is rubbish, Jagex is rubbish, everyone who has anything positive to say is rubbish, I'm getting a theme here. As for being a 'bootlicking Billy'? :blink: I would rather have a positive attitude than get so stressed and be a drama queen over what is basically just a game.

...and it looks like a good thing I didn't even try to load RuneScape. Seeing those screenshots. Damned Jagex... blasted idiots they are! :wall: There is no way that I'm ever going back near RuneScape. They've now put me in a similar situation to "Dead Frontier", and I'm NOT doing that ever again. You'll see me around on Tip.It Forums, but that's it. Now, pardon me while I go spend the next few days cleaning up my Tip.It Forums profile. <_< ~Mr. D. V. "That's it; Jagex blew it; R.I.P. RuneScape & Jagex, 2011-11-21; May they burn in hell." Devnull (p.s.: BTW, they've hurt all legitimate New F2P Accounts. Not everyone has the damn $5+ to spend, due to the blasted economy! I'll definitely be telling people to not go near RuneScape because of that as well.) Bye

I began playing a few years ago as a mature adult on the recommendation of my bank manager who was really into RS and other MMORPG's (yeah I know....don't say it). Since then I have played regularly, I have found it a wonderful way to relax after work, particularly some of the repetitive skills (those that some people call grinding, I call soothing). Now I am doing my Masters Degree in Business on top of my full time job and I still find time for RS, I think I always will :thumbsup:

I have only looked briefly at the website update, looks like something I'll get used to quickly. Feels rather strange at first. Cannot believe that I have jumped so many levels in the high scores, gained over 3k places in thieving and now in the top 800, I didn't think I did that much thieving! :blink: I'll have a proper look at the update tonight, I have to say I like the other updates to prevent gold farming etc, cleverly thought out.

Very nicely said, a point I have been trying to put across in this and other threads. The doom and gloom aspect is not something I have seen at all in the F2P, it appears busier than ever when I am there. As I stated previously, which supports your comments: I think our direct experiences place a little more reality on the extreme responses there have been on Tip.it...including the article "Goodbye, Runescape" that basically declares the pending death of RS!