Silvertaler

If you keep at it, by the time your 99 range, you'd be pretty darn close. Unless your chinning... Not chinning, I guess I'll give that a try then. I suppose I'll RC for the rest of the money. Thanks ;)

Alright, but anyway, what's the best skill for money making? Runecrafting? Fishing? I doubt I'll make 70 million out of herb seeds by the time I hit 99 Ranged.

Just wanna break down a few arguments here. First, science and religion may not have all the answers, but we can all agree science has brought much more answers and even proven religion to be wrong many times. Therefore, science is at very least more reliable. Second. There may be no solid proof on God's inexistence, but the whole belief doesn't make sense. If you look carefully, the Universe is in progress. Dust becomes life, life becomes intelligent, and intelligent life creates artificial intelligence. The existence of a God would assume that we're in regression, since he would be many thousands of times more intelligent than us and would be creating beings inferior to him. And when you look around, Nature clearly isn't in regression (except for a few idiots out there, that is). Third, have a look at this (it's a satire.. not to be taken seriously):

Any seeds you suggest?

I don't wanna take 10 months to gather 70 million :mellow:

Currently I'm level 74 Construction and I plan getting 99 after my 99 Ranged goal, but I'll probably spend the money I'll get from Ranged on an Armadyl set and other stuff, and end up with less than 10 million. What would be a good skill to save up money for 99 Construction, considering it would cost me around 70 million?

Semantics, semantics, semantics. You heal in hospitals, you explore Daemonheim in Dungeoneering. :rolleyes: Please at least ATTEMPT to provide a valid argument. He didn't lose any argument. We've already refuted every of your points and you just keep coming back with the same arguments over an over again. This is why winning a debate with stubborn people is impossible. Also I find it ironic how you blame him for discussing semantics when you jump in the train yourself. Summing up, there's no progress in the Daemonheim plot through dungeoneering, just discovery. Therefore, it's not a quest. End of. This said I'm out of the thread as well, at least of the Daemonheim discussion.

They're just general Star Wars & Dragonball sounds (the anime & game use the exact same sounds I think).

I wasn't saying I dont care, I was saying that I did not understand your writing. I didnt know what I was supposedly caring or not caring about How is athiesm a religion? Actually by definition it is a lack of religion. I do not believe in anything. I observe facts and make logical deductions about the nature of reality. My views about the world are not fixed and I hold no "beliefs" or "faiths". Right now, I have concluded that evolution was the process that brought humans into existance, but if new evidence emerged then my views would change. Religion is a belief in one thing, a belief based on faith and not on evidence. It is irrational, and illogical. Atheism is not a religion, it is not a belief, and it is not a faith in anything. You don't understand logic, and that's the one thing that sticks out. Also, it's irrational to try and rationalize an irrational world. Second, Atheism is a religion, however Atheists won't admit it, because let's face it. Religoin is for illogical ppls@! Atheism is not based on the belief of something. Science is knowledge, not belief. Therefore, it's not a religion. And really, religion-wise, America is regressing. Come over to Europe if you don't wanna be bothered by ignorants like GB.

Well then we're 4 to believe the skill alone will still need a quest sooner or later. And why do you think they'll add a new quest? Because if they leave the skill as it is right now, even adding new levels, it will never move on from that. That's what quests are there for - to make progress in the history of the game, to solve the plots. I think you're just confusing the words "quest" and "adventure". Both Dungeoneering and questing are adventures. But they're two different types of adventures. You think it's a quest because of how you explore and learn more about the area while you do the skill, right? Well, that's what adventuring is about, but questing takes a few more ingredients than that. I think the misunderstanding is solved here much. But the events in Daemonheim DO have a progressing plot, like I've already mentioned many times. The plot will eventually stop when the "quest" is complete, just like in real quests. The only thing that quests have that Dungeoneering does not have is quest points. The books/notes you find in Dungeoneering were already there before you even entered the dungeon. Your knowledge makes progress but the game doesn't.

who care so much about their skillcape /questcape? three is no achievement in having the quest cape. it's 13m exp to get all the requirements. I'll give you 20m exp as a benchmark if you like, but that's still 20m of the first 50m exp you'll get ingame. so what if someone loses their quest cape? so what if someone loses their firecape (which is a greater achievement). you're saying the reason quests don't have higher requirements is that jagex cares about your quest cape. i think jagex just haven't been able to churn out enough quests to gradually make it up to requirements that matter. at some point they must realize that their "elite" content never is or has been elite, because they've released it too slowly, over-saturating the low-level game instead. Runescape is enough of a grindfest as is, let's try to keep questing away from that. if there are no requirements for doing quests (by "requirements" i mean something not everyone has, or can get at thier wish at any time), why do npc's need your help? does a fireman need help from a random stranger to fix his fire department? again, your argument is emotive in the sense that you argue for exactly what you would like, not what's good for the game, not what's reasonable in terms of lore, not what's reasonable in terms of providing incentives to play the game as it is meant to be played (hey, jagex added levels up to 99...) No one has said anything about lvl 99. level 92 is half way. there's a significant difference there. i'm all for any requirement up to lvl 92 in anything for any reason. IF you don't like the main mechanic of the game (grinding), don't play it. CHOOSE A DIFFERENT GAME, don't come here whining about something you know won't change, that there's no reason to change. it's like playing monopoly, disliking that distance moved is determined by a dice... you want a segmented game, where gamplay in the form of quests, and gameplay in the form of activities, minigames, area access, skills etc are segregated, becasue you only want to play a tiny portion of the game. that is unreasonable for everyone who wants to play the game as a whole, which again is what jagex intend. there is no sense in achievement, when people like you without any real mastery of the game (sorry, i looked your stats up) wear the same cooking, fletching and quest capes as us other players. there is no incentive to train skills (other than dungeoneering) for endgame content, quests should be another reason to do exactly that. This game clearly has more mechanic than grinding. You're given the choice and everyone knows that. If you wanna be a PVPer you can just train combat skills. If you wanna be a quester you can just get the requirements. From my perspective skills are only tools you use in order to achieve other things, you chose to level them as much as you need. I think it's you who's not happy about it, here. If you want a game where everything depends on grinding, quit and go on some game like World of Warcraft where all you get is grinding. Also, saying the Fire Cape is a greater achievement than a Quest Cape is absurd. If you'd have done all the quests by yourself you'd have known it. I don't see why people who just rushed all the quests like you should even be entitled an opinion on this, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

I think it's inevitable, personally. I already said that it has the mechanics of a skill (doing the same thing over and over again; grinding). Do you know why the story doesn't progress like it does in a quest? Because Jagex hasn't finished the story yet. Once the skill is complete, a run from floor 1-60 will play out very similarly to an epic quest. Given that you think Daemonheim is stale, I'd say that your aversion to relating Dungeoneering to a quest is mostly just your dislike of Dungeoneering. Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think they'll add a quest directly related to Daemonheim, in the same way they just gave a quest to the Void Knights? Dungeoneering =/= minigame. Pest Control = minigame. The point of this argument is that Dungeoneering IS a quest, one that requires fluid skill levels but definitely gives an advantage to those at the top (which I believe some poster posted as the requirement for the "ultimate" quest). That being said, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a quest related to Dungeoneering in some way. Well then we're 4 to believe the skill alone will still need a quest sooner or later. And why do you think they'll add a new quest? Because if they leave the skill as it is right now, even adding new levels, it will never move on from that. That's what quests are there for - to make progress in the history of the game, to solve the plots. I think you're just confusing the words "quest" and "adventure". Both Dungeoneering and questing are adventures. But they're two different types of adventures. You think it's a quest because of how you explore and learn more about the area while you do the skill, right? Well, that's what adventuring is about, but questing takes a few more ingredients than that. I think the misunderstanding is solved here much.

I already said that it has the mechanics of a skill (doing the same thing over and over again; grinding). Do you know why the story doesn't progress like it does in a quest? Because Jagex hasn't finished the story yet. Once the skill is complete, a run from floor 1-60 will play out very similarly to an epic quest. Given that you think Daemonheim is stale, I'd say that your aversion to relating Dungeoneering to a quest is mostly just your dislike of Dungeoneering. Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think they'll add a quest directly related to Daemonheim, in the same way they just gave a quest to the Void Knights?

I think you're confused by the use of "champion" here. cham·pi·on    /ˈtʃæmpiən/ [cham-pee-uhn] –noun 1. a person who has defeated all opponents in a competition or series of competitions, so as to hold first place: the heavyweight boxing champion. 2. anything that takes first place in competition: the champion of a cattle show. 3. an animal that has won a certain number of points in officially recognized shows: This dog is a champion. 4. a person who fights for or defends any person or cause: a champion of the oppressed. 5. a fighter or warrior. It's not saying Pmods are the best. The result is the same. Player moderators are still supposed to be an elite group, Jagex speak of them as so. If you'd read the whole thing on the website you'd know: "Shown themselves to be friendly"? There's thousands of players like that. You play under the impression that most players out there are immature, because the minorities are always the loudest groups. "Have been invited by Jagex to be ambassadors"? More like, picked and chosen. "Organise and attend events"? Might as well recruit anyone who posts a thread in the events sections of any community forums. You got the whole TET team here on Tip It you could recruit if things were like this. "Really make a difference to my daily gaming experience"? Don't get me started. When was the last time a player moderator had any impact on you? Only those who get muted by them get to experience that lol... And why does Jagex assume we'd be afraid of player moderators? I don't see why I'd be intimidated by them, if they were to abuse of their power on people they'd be the ones losing the most in the end. Also, why do they assume I'd want to say hello? Because it's more important to talk with them than with other players? It all comes down to opinion, really. I don't wanna convince anyone here about what a player moderator is, but to my experience this just some idea Jagex came up with that in the end only creates more elitism in game.

I had the discussion about player moderators before and I really doubt Jagex put much effort into chosing them. On Jagex's website you read this: The truth is, player moderators being champions of anything is a plain myth. No offence to any player moderators around here, but I'm yet to see how most player moderators are better than most players. Obviously when you're given a silver crown you gain more confidence and go around speaking in posh language to brag off, but how does that make you a superior being? I don't think Jagex puts as much effort as they claim into chosing moderators, there's thousands of them, they probably just have an automated program selecting players with clean accounts for them, and all they do is pick and chose. How am I so sure? Because I've known some player moderators personally, and when I ask them how they got that crown they don't even know it themselves. One of them barely bothered with reporting people (that's his words, not mines). In the other hand I've known people who had talent at leading and getting heard, and who are nice, yet haven't been chosen as player moderators (and there are loads of these, really). I don't think the whole player moderator system is needed, we have the ignore and report options for a reason, and on top of that this system is putting power in the hands of people who aren't necessarily able to handle it correctly. Second post, didn't really like it, not an interesting read in my opinion. Besides the part where he boasts out his wealth, and then ironically bashes on people who boast, didn't retain most of the read.

Now that I think of it, I did forget an important "progress" factor that is common to all quests as well, and that clearly sets a bigger difference between them and minigames or Dungeoneering. That said, EW is indeed more of a quest than Dungeoneering, even though it lacks the "help" factor.

...Obviously they put that there to look nice, he doesn't set any goals for you. You should consider the entire conversation not just the nice greeting message. He goes on to explain that they've been losing warriors and they need reinforcements, then tells you what you need to do next to start helping. *shrug* It's certainly more than you get for Elemental Workshop. :ugeek: I've backed up my previous post with a couple of examples while you posted. You should consider those. And I do agree Elemental Workshop has little content, it's some sort of overgrown miniquest.

^Fremennik dude recruiting adventurers to explore Daemonheim ...Obviously they put that there to look nice, he doesn't set any goals for you. You should consider the entire conversation not just the nice greeting message. They also claim they need your help at Pest Control and Barbarian Assault, yet they're minigames. It doesn't go further than that.

1. Yes there is some sort of goal, since you're doing a favour to an NPC. Think of quests on World of Warcraft as quests from which you took off everything except the two elements that still make them quests. You generally have a little plot like "the wolves are attacking my sheep", followed by the favour which is "kill 100 wolves for me please". That's the very base of a quest. On Runescape you can add the few elements you mentioned, because quests are a bit more complex, so yeah it's true, I guess we agree on this. 2. I don't mean to say that 100% of what's related to Dungeoneering is self-contained. I mean to say that the skill itself, the action of you going inside Daemonheim and doing a dungeon, is self-contained. The area and the skill, globally speaking, still have an importance. Maybe Zamorak is hidding in the very last floor, but I highly doubt you'd have to get 120 Dungeoneering to do a quest. I don't think going through all those dungeons will be necessary, and if so it erases the chance of them being involved in the plot. Think of it as the whole Void Knight activity. You have the background story, the quests and the minigame, in the same way Daemonheim has its background story, a possible future quest, and the skill. Pest Control may help you get a clearer view of what's going on, but no matter how many times you play it, it won't help you make progress in the plot. The quests are there for that. In the same way, the Dungeoneering skill helps you get a clearer view of what the dungeons are about, but no matter how many times you repeat it you won't see Zamorak coming out of there. That's what the quests are there for, for you to give some progress to the plot. But then again no quest has been released yet, so we're down to assumptions here. 3. Yes but the question is, why make questing depend too much on skilling just for the sake of sounding realistic, when this is a fantasy game? Last time I checked, reality didn't always matter, you can for example carry 2 billion cannonballs in your inventory...

So here we find the two core issues: 1. What is questing? 2. Is the Dungeoneering skill similar to questing? From what I've gathered, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you feel that skills should have nothing to do with quests and that Dungeoneering is nothing like questing, correct? How would you define questing? In regards to Dungeoneering, I believe you're wrong due to the fact that Dungeoneering DOES contain many of the core elements of questing; that is, Dungeoneering presents a challenge or task for the player to complete, offers puzzles, boss fights, and a TON of lore (more lore than most quests, actually). However, Dungeoneering is still a skill, so it also contains levels and grinding. I'll wait for you to post your definition of questing before I continue. I have already sort of defined what a quest was in the previous posts. You're so focussed on getting your point across that you don't even read what I have to say. So here's an all-in-one post so you quit assuming I contradict myself or don't explain anything. #1 What is questing? The two common points between all quests are first, the fact they all have a plot, second the fact that you eventually help somebody in the process: you become a hero. Let's consider these are the "plot" factor and the "help" factor - keep this in mind for later. In quests you're solving a plot which either involves helping someone, or putting someone in advantage over someone else. Some quest series start out by quests that don't immediately make you a hero, such as the Rellekka series or the White Knight series that start out by recruitment quests; some other quest series start out by quests that don't immediately have a clear plot, like Nomad's Requiem seems to be. But you can't judge those by themselves, since the whole series count as one big quest that got cut down to smaller ones. Sometimes you help out a single person, like in Cook's Assistant or Love Story, sometimes you help out entire factions like in Dealing With Scarabas or While Guthix Sleeps; and sometimes you don't really know who you're helping but you still help people in the process, like in Desert Treasure where you end up helping the ice troll family and later Azzanadra, the mahjarrat. In Love Story, Zenevivia defines questers like this herself, she calls them the good doers if I remember well. As a secondary effect, you end up having an impact on Gielinor's history during many quests: this is the consequence of them having plots. For instance, during the Varrock quest series you help fend off an attack by the undead, which could have been much more dangerous if you were not there to help. #2 Is Dungeoneering a quest? Having defined the word "quest", I guess it makes it clear why I believe Dungeoneering isn't a quest. I do get where you're coming from: Daemonheim has a backstory and it's apparently related to the Dragonkin, a faction that will probably have some importance in the sequel of While Guthix Sleeps. But the skill itself has almost nothing of a quest: nobody asks you to go in there and explore the dungeons for them, and what you do inside the dungeons has little to no impact on the history of Runescape or on any of the NPC's. You go in there to explore on your own will, for your own pleasure. It's like most minigames: Fist of Guthix or Tears of Guthix take place in areas that have their own history, but whatever you do in there is only meaningful for yourself. You're not solving any plot or helping anybody. See how TOG was there long before While Guthix Sleeps, and although the latter ended up in the same caves whatever you did on TOG still had no impact on it. In the same way, there will probably be a quest directly related to Daemonheim, but whatever you'll have done in the dungeons is likely to be of little importance for the quest. Maybe you'll need to unlock a dungeon or get to a certain level, but going there and doing a dungeon right now won't have any importance for the quest besides for the experience you'll get. On top of that, the skill is way too distant from the entire game, I don't think I'm the only one who's got the feeling of playing a different game whenever I go down those dungeons. #3 Are quests about testing your skills? Once again, my defition of quest helps prove that quests aren't about testing your skills. Quests are about solving a plot and helping someone in the process. And Runescape being a game with a huge load of content, you'll obviously need tools for it. Skills are one of the tools. You need 75 Magic for While Guthix Sleeps as much as you need gear and as much as you need some brains - if you're like me and take pleasure doing quests by yourself, that is. Once again, when you build a house, you don't do it on the purpose of using your tools, you do it on the purpose of getting something out of it, may it be living in there or selling it. In the same way, you don't do quests on the purpose of testing your skills, nobody goes like "hey I feel like doing Herblore, I'll go do a quest", that's silly. You do quests in the purpose of getting something out of them. For me, it's fun, for some others, it's the rewards. This is also why I believe quests shouldn't have high skill requirements. Some people believe skill requirements make quests harder, but that's not true. It doesn't make them harder, it makes the process of unlocking them harder. I'm not questing when I'm training for a skill requirement. Players should keep the freedom of choosing wether they'd like to focus more on questing or on skilling. It's normal the two activities are linked - some skills require quests to be trained efficiently or even to be trained at all, and most quests have their skill requirements; they're in the same game after all. But none should depend too much on the other.

The Corp can be massively pilled and farmed, and for that fact alone it loses its rank 1 position for me. My favourite is Nomad by far, because the fight can be very long and the tension is very high all the way. It's not a boss you can camp, not a boss you can farm, not a boss you can hide from. You have to face him, and given his massive power you can die at any mistake you make. That, added up to the fact he's got various attacks making the fight more interesting, makes it the most thrilling fight in the whole game. Also, the NPC itself sounds calculating, smart and intimidating, and he looks fearsome at first sight - these kinds of things also count in the long run.

Today I've been to my first TET Event: Pirates vs Ninjas, and had a great time there. You can find the original thread here. Most of us began preparing a couple of hours before the event, and met up in Varrock Square before moving to Falador Park. Everyone had great outfits. In my opinion the best looking was Tsar's, but besides that one I had no preferrences. Here was mine: We then lined up to get rated by the event leaders. You can find the list of winners here. I didn't win anything, but it doesn't really matter, the winners had great outfits. :) Next came the Clan Wars. We marched all the way from Falador to Clan Wars, and played three matches. Us pirates won first, then won the ninjas, and finally us pirates decided to organise ourselves a little bit more and we won the third match by far (alright I'll admit it, we pilled :P ) Then came the minigames. Now I had never played either of the two so I found myself completely lost at first and didn't get to do anything, but it was still worth it being there just to be with other people from Tip It. I guess next time, I'll have to prepare myself a bit more. Here's me and NeoAnderson performing the Quest Cape emote while we gathered before the second event: Overall it was fun, and worth the time. If you have never been to TET Events, you should definitely give it a try. I'll be waiting for the next one. May Zaros be with you!

Wow, did you seriously just completely avoid each and every one of my points and tell me that all I did was attack you? Please read and re-read my post. As you've only made one argument in this post, I'll respond to that: I never once said that the purpose of doing quests was to test your skills (though that is certainly a good reason to). You're arguing with me about something I didn't even contradict. Now I'm going to attack you personally: Why do people with IQ's lower than 10 insist on not only posting, but arguing with me, too? Seems like I have to do this every other day. :rolleyes: Still not contradicting yourself? Then let's see about the part earlier when you reply to me saying "I never said Dungeoneering wasn't a skill": Also claimed it was the biggest quest in game at the beginning of that thread but I don't need to quote that, do I... You're done proving me you have no clue about what questing is. I paid my first membership on the purpose of questing and went through the whole thing by myself so really, avoid trying to enlighten me on what a quest is when you know nothing of it. " :rolleyes: " What we really need is quests like Legends' Quest, Desert Treasure, While Guthix Sleeps & company. The hardcore style quests that go like "here's your mission, have fun finding out how to do it yourself" kind of quests. In the recent quests, NPC's lead you around too much.