Xensure

If he is really won't get 200m farming by the time he has 200m everything else he can just open grand seed pods at the dueling arena fence gates to trap the gnomes and get like 80-100k xp/hr while he waits for the high xp plant in each type of patch to grow. He won't be wasting time if he just plants the best xp plant in each type of patch since there isn't any better way to spend his time at that point. Grand seed pods were fairly easy to buy in a decently large quantity when I played. Granted that was like 5 years ago now so I don't really know.

Right... Well now you know not to buy magpie jars... Lol.

I heard they are 30k cash/hr.... You lose money as the sample size gets large.

Zarfot would have caught him in hours left. At the pace with which Zafort was going though slayer (If someone wants to look up Suomi's slayer gains and Zarfot's and then call me out saying "Suomi was going like 45% faster than Zarfot" Keep in mind that Zarfot was using his effigies on Runecrafting). He would have benefited much more than Suomi in hours saved by effigies since he had all effigy combos open with the slower skill open as well. This isn't really an advantage in itself since that means that Suomi had these slower skills already done, but Zarfot would have been done with slayer and all combat before the effigy nerf so he could have exploited crawlers to their fullest extent. He also quit with a 36m base, that means that would have had like a 80m base by the time he was done with crawlers. I am confident Zarfot would have caught Suomi in hours left to 200m by now. I would like to say that it would be close though. We would be having a battle right now for the last 1b xp.

Lulwut Tell me your hax pouch making strategy?

15.5M Crafting in a day? That's a very, very low xp-rate for one day (if money is not an option). 15.5M Crafting in a day? That's a very, very low xp-rate for one day (if money is not an option). Very, very low? Compared to what? He broke a record... And actually got up to 17.3M...that's 720k xp/h if he went 24 hours straight (imagine cutting onyxes for 24 hours straight). What method do you think would be faster than 720k crafting xp/h? It's a glitch just like all of Suomi's daily records. Sometime the tracker doesn't update correctly and its 24 hour sliding window breaks and it collects two days worth of xp.

No there is no need for Suomi to do anything differently. Woodcutting is his next slowest skill and that is 140k/hr max. Since RC is only 69k/hr at the moment I highly doubt Jagex would more than double its current rate. That would be the only scenario were it would have been beneficial for Suomi to wait and use effigy lamps on Woodcutting instead of using them now on RC. There is also another factor at work here and that is the effigy nerf. Effigies are really a non-factor now for Suomi. Their drop rate reduction is so much and the fact that Suomi is investigating faster skills they do not save much time on his way to 200m all. I posted a dozen or so pages back how if Suomi stayed at crawlers until 200m attack the effigies he got with the 1/3rd reduction would only save around 32 hours. That is a drop in the bucket really. Frankly I think it would be more prudent of Suomi to just focus on getting 200m summoning from the remaining 118m attack xp he has left. It may even be that if he does it at black demons, or another high crimson dropper the time saved from not having to run any greens (or much less) would be more than 32 hours. And since black demons are the second best effigy dropper he would probably still save around 20 hours from effigies there, and thus he only needs to get enough more crimsons from them over that which he would get at crawlers to save like 12 hours. So I think it is all about summoning for Suomi now. It is pretty much a given that he is going to have to do some ZMI anyway so he could always max attack as he is (Where is he btw? crawlers still?) and then do woodcutting/hunter/thieving, and wait for the RC update.

That. I'm probably going to do implings. As long as I can buy them all before weekend. May end up doing implings then mahog tables. Peace, Vann Start making thrones He probably would except thrones need 99 to make. Well if cost is not an issue and you don't count opening the jars in your time then running curved/long bones are like 3m xp/hr as opposed to 750k xp/hr doing mahogany tables. The decision is your depending on how much gp/xp you are willing to pay. Personally I would do the jars because you will be able to get 99 in 2-3 hours if you open all of your jars before the weekend obviously. This will leave you with much more time to do other skills at > 1.1x rate. Overall efficiency wise you would have to know how much you are willing to pay per xp to figure out if this method is truly efficient for you, but if cost is no object then I would go with this method.

I stand corrected. I thought it was November, but I read his channel and you are correct it was mid-September when he took over. Thus my shocked face should be approximately 66.7% more shocked. O.o

One year of being maxed and already 5 months at rank 1. O.o

I enjoyed the video. You had some good fights with decent risks. As for requests, and not to sound like an [wagon], but since you have the cash you should try some bandos risk fights. Those are always entertaining to watch. I know of the friends chat "riskinbandos" from Born for PvM's pk commentary and apparently in that chat you can find legit fights with out having to search world 18. In that vid Born mentions that channel. Also I would really enjoy some staking commentaries, especially with obstacles. It would be interesting to know some of your tactics to obstacles.

200m Attack. Even though it's likely inefficient now? Can anyone figure out the effigy rate based on how long he plays and how much xp he gets in other skills? He doesnt make it easy. Assisting runecrafting, doing farm runs, blocking mining and getting 990 runecrafting xp each trip. We can guess how many kills he has made from his attack xp - unfotunately he has range maxed otherwise we could use attack, range, hitpoints xp to calculate the exact rapier, titan, cannon damage. Exactly. It was much easier when he had range non-maxed so we could use two ratios to figure out how many he has killed, but he melee xp/hr isn't as consistent as the cannon. Also his particular effigy investigation skills makes it hard to get an average for effigies. Also we don't know how many hours he is playing. We can only guess than from his Attack xp which I just mentioned was tough to figure out how many he has killed. Also kills per hour always shifts. So basically we are getting averages of averages of averages. And that is never good statics practice. Luckily Suomi was kind enough to track for 20 hours of crawlers during which he got 7 effigies. So most likely it is right around 3 hours per effigy. Also having just Suomi's data isn't very useful. We need drop data from multiple NPCs with large sample sizes to determine the actual new drop rate. The old model that Vex came up with was developed using like 100k kills across multiple NPCs. The only thing we can conclude from just Suomi's data is that crawlers have had about a 75% reduction. So we could try and extrapolate to all NPCs and just multiply the old drop rate function by .25, but that isn't very accurate since it is only based on one NPC over a small sample set. Based on the math I have done and extrapolations I have made it seems as though effigies are now just powerful enough to keep you at an NPC that drop them "frequently" So if all NPCs have been reduced by the same percentage it seems as thoug crawlers are still optimal. But by such a small margin that if you are concerned about GP you should probably look elsewhere. Especially in Suomi's case effigies are so weak because he his using them on a lot of fast skills that even if he were to use another method like black demons, or dark beast, or black dragons. We are only talking about a 30 hours time saver or loss between any of the methods. So there is a change that this could come down to charms now. They might be more powerful, time wise, than effigies. So we will see when more data comes, but in the end if Suomi keeps doing crawlers until a new method is discovered he will only lose a handful of hours on the route to 200m all so unless he feels like being the first to 50m all skills I would just say stick with crawlers until we figure something else out. That is if there is even a different optimal method.

We are working on it. My slayer model is still relevant, I just need to get in the new effigy rates. Once those are established it will take two seconds to work out the optimal task for whatever needs you may have. But I wouldn't be surprised if NPCs like Abyssals, ice wryms, waterfiends get much more value in the "slayer hs - skilling hs" function since effigies no longer over power the other sources of xp. Ie. slayer xp, and charms.

Anyone know how you could calculate this? So basically if you are getting 80k melee xp/hr at crawlers and an effigy every 3 hours and you can get 180k melee xp/hr at skeletons... (80/180)+.333*[11.250*(1/660+ 1/1300+ 1/69+ 1/275 + 1/260+ 1/130-0.3/600+ 1/600)]+.333*[48.029/69] = 0.800 So currently at cave crawlers you are not getting an hours worth of training per hour spent there. This is not good. So if you can get the same xp in charms at rock lobsters in 12 minutes that you would get in 1 hour at cave crawlers it is worth doing skeletons over crawlers. Based on this I am thinking that Black dragons may be the way to go for finishing out melee. Especially cost wise. Here are just a few comparisons for Suomi's case. For cave crawlers to be positive time on their own with an effigy ever 3 hours you need at least 116k melee xp/hr. If you are killing something that gives you an effigy every 4 hours you need to be getting at least 132k melee xp/hr. This NPC is assumed to give the same summoning xp/hr as cave crawlers. If it gives better then the melee xp/hr required would fall. @Suomi, not to tell you want to do, but I am going to tell you what to do. I would recommend doing some thieving, Hunter, or WCing for the time being until people can figure out what is optimal for finishing out melee.

Ok then so what is the actual attack xp/hr at AZs? Or the kills per hour?

Vyrewatch don't drop charms though, do they? So, Suomi would have to train on something else. Speaking of charms, looks like Suomi has decided to do some summoning after all. I do not know. I took that for granted and that means yes, that would certainly change everything. I would have to compare crawlers against the fastest melee xp charm dropper. Do Armored Zombies drop charms? I think they were the next best melee xp after DHing monkeys and vyrewatch. Good spot Sockem. I usually don't over look something simple like that.

I don't really see the point in going Zmi now and getting 200M Runecrafting since I will still be getting effigies when getting 200M Attack and it's best to use effigies on Runecrafting of course. I don't know yet about the update or runners. Actually cave crawlers may not be the optimal method for training combat anymore if the effigy rate is that bad. I know it is an extremely small sample set but say we take the 5 in 15hours as fact so 1/3 effigy per hour. I am also assuming these xp rates for the investigation skills: Firemaking: 600k/hr Woodcutting: 130k/hr + 30% as FMing xp Farming: 1.3m/hr Crafting: 660k/hr Thieving: 260k/hr Hunter 275k/hr Runecrafting: 69k/hr Melee: 150k/hr <-vyrewatch apparently is the fastest. I don't know that for sure though. - Melee at crawlers is now 100k/hr with you using a rapier. So from that we can develop this equation to make sure crawlers are worth it. (x) represents how many effigies you must obtain per hour for crawlers to be "worth" 1 hour of training. (100/150)+x*[11.250*(1/660+ 1/1300+ 1/69+ 1/275 + 1/260+ 1/130-0.3/600+ 1/600)]+x*[48.029/69]=1 The function boils down to 1.06866(x)+(2/3) = 1 And therefor x = 0.311918, So you only need an effigy a little more than every 3 hours. This is for Suomi's case only, obviously because of the investigation skills being used. So if crawlers really are reduced down to 1/3 effigies per hour then they are only marginally worth it over Vyrewatch training and just doing all of the other skills by their own respective methods. For example at crawlers, with 1/3 effigy per hour, an hour spent there is only worth 1.02289 hours of training the skills individually. So over your remaining 142m attack xp left @ 100k/hr you will only save a grand total of 32.5038 hours over just doing the skills individually. With cannonballs at 381ea and 5.5k used per hour you will spend 2,975,610,000 to finish melee. That is spending 91,546,526gp for each hour saved. Now this isn't exact because you would have to subtract out the money you save on FMing, Farming, and Crafting, but that probably isn't that much since you are only saving 32.5 hours across all investigation skills. Cannon balls may drop further since people seem to be dumping them as they wanted them for effigy collecting. This would help lessen the gp/hr necessary to make crawlers worth it. So basically crawlers are now right on the edge of actually being better than the just going all out melee on Vyrewatch. If they are 3 effigies an hour they are still worth it, but just barely and if they are actually slower than that then they are no longer worth it. So I would suggest sticking it out for a another week to get a good idea of the drop rate, but if it really does suck it may be time to get out of that cave. **note** Did Pyre FMing get nerfed? Because if FMing is back down to 473k/hr then the effigies per hour then the effigies per hour requirement goes down to .31 Lol, a whole .002 effigies per hour better =P **Note2** If vyrewatch do not drop charms I am going to have rethink this. I would change too much other than the divisor of the first term in the master equation. So I will look in to this tomorrow.

No. It is optimal to use lamps on slayer then RC then Agility then I think fishing, though C2 may have changed that. This is why a lot of people were not happy when me and Thai calculated it out that it is optimal to go to cave crawlers for all of melee. Which will result in 200m slayer and RC along with like 30m agility xp.

I like how all suomi says is no xp waste. Yet he wont stop killing cave crawlers till new cape comes out to save some xp. He wont use the book of char because it only saves a few hours. He dosnt use jack of trades. He took like 2 months to buy stead boots because they wearnt good enough even though gp is donated. suomi can you please stop saying no xp waste when you have wasted well over 2 months of xp already blockign mining effigy stages and wouldnt even make overloads because they are to expensive even though your money is donated not sure why you say you dont like wasting money when its all donated so please stop using theese overused jokes thanks sorry didnt really mean to add reply to that post not sure how to remove it was just posting about him Ok first of all "no xp wasted" doesn't mean anything... At all... The term doesn't even make sense. You can not "waste" xp. Any xp gained is good when going for 200m all skills. Hence his phrase being a hyperbolic joke about how many people view him and his approach to the game. You can however waste time. Time is the valuable resource being used here to gain xp. Suomi's playing style involves making an effort to not waste time while training via the methods he chooses to do. However; he does not let efficiency wholey dictate what methods he chooses to train with. This is where fun and practicality come in.

Could someone who has access to the high level forum post the "highest lowest skill rankings" please? I remember someone say a person named "Rach" keeps those semi-updated. I would like to take a look at those if someone has the time to go copy/paste them. Thanks.

Yeah based on your ratio of melee xp to crimson and blue charms it seems as though you will have about 103k crimsons and 20k blues by the time you hit 200m attack. That is only 60m summoning xp, so you need to find another 37.5m. If you want to pick up greens you will need around 240k greens to get that 37.5m (making unicorns). At 3k charms run an hour that is 80 hours extra to run the greens rather than just investigating summoning. However; by the time you max RC you wont have enough attack xp left to amass 37.5m investigation xp in summoning. So you are going to have to pick up green charms. Kinda sucks to have to pick up greens but it is certainly more efficient to pick them up than using lamps on summoning, or still killing creatures after 200m melee, range, and mage, which are your only other options.

Generally we don't talk about efficiency of fun because its super subjective and specific to the player. It also happens to be difficult to quantify. AFK is interesting. That could be measured in terms of minimum inputs/hr, or maxiumum secsticks/input. It would be cool to obtain that sort of data. However overall sense of Afk ability is somewhat subjective and difficult to track as players have different measures. Keep in mind that not everyone enjoys all aspects of the game. (I dislike castle wars, for example) Someone gets it. Thank you hedgehog. I have been touting this for a while yet no ever seems to listen. People say the word "efficiency" as an adjective synonymous with "Zarfot like." Efficiency is the process of minimizing the units of resources used per unit of desired outcome. The reason I phrase it with "units" is that it literally could be anything. It could be some tangible and easily measurable like xp or time, it could also be something impossible to measure like fun, or happiness. We need to keep in mind the term "value" now. In the efficiency function there can only be two different units; one for the resources used, and one for the desired outcomes. However, in any given scenario where efficiency is being applied there can be multiple resources being used and multiple outcomes desired, each with different units of measurement. This is where value comes it. There needs to be a function relating all of the unit on one side of the ratio and another relating all of the units on the other side. This comes down to value. How do you value each of these terms involved.

It's all reliable and confirmed in HLF. If someone could post a confirmation of this? I will ask a print from HLF when Dragonseance gets back to rs Rocktails have a pretty large range. The fact that someone got 55k (or whatever you/someone else said) doesn't mean much unless they have a fairly large sample size. According to Dragonseance, they tested for 50 hours. What we need is to figure out the function that jagex uses to determine your probablility of catching any given fish at any given fishing level. I can almost guarantee that there is one function that has to do with your fishing level, the level required to catch that particular fish and then some constants. If this can be figured out then you can run on an expected value of the true population mean.

On January 29th 2011 Suomi had 1.924 billion total xp. One year later from that date Suomi has gained 1.924 billion total xp. So in the past year Suomi has doubled his total xp. Pretty crazy.

I suggested this idea a while back. I think it would be cool if "visible" xp was capped at 200m but then ranks could still change in any given skill based on invisible xp. This would work exactly the same as regular xp however when you looked your self up in the highscores it would just display as 200m. I think with would be entertaining because anyone competing for rank 1 in a skill would never know how far ahead the rank in front of them is. They could be 10k xp ahead, they could be 10m. However people that compete for permanent ranks would certainly not like this idea.