Xensure

Opinions: Dapledo to 100m all first - or - Suomi to 200m all first ??? **note** this does assume that Dapledo will go for 100m dungeon at some point.

Jeez, Gemeos2 was simply answering this question by putting it in a different perspective. Jebrim has more TMOA points because his 33 points includes all 3 of his accounts whereas Broman just has his 1 account. So Gemeos compared it with his timecalc by just stating Jebrim's time left as if Jebrim spent the surplus hours on agility on other skills instead. Kinda seems like you guys read Gemeos' post w/o reading it in context and decided to attack what he said <_< . Why are you jumping down his throat??? He asked a simple question and you didn't answer. All you did was get angry at him because you assume he is attacking Jebrim. Now You are just diverting the argument to shit about Jebrim. Creating a shit storm about nothing when someone could have just answered his question with a dirrect quote from Jebrim's thread. I believe they are called TMOA-points, non? Not 'official-pointsystem-by-Jagex'. Since Jebrim is leader of TMOA he can construct a system the way he wants. Hiscores go to 200M, TMOA-points don't have to deal with this limit, therefore being a good indication of the effort you put in RS in general, not on just one account. I don't know why it's so hard to get that. Obviously Jebrim has an advantage which is well-deserved. Again pointless agruing and take a gross misstatement of how Jebrim actually describes the system him self. People suck that is why. Here is the actual answer to your question taken directly from Jebrim's clan thread. This is how he assigns his "cosmetic" points. They are completely arbitrary and his own creation for his clan and not for any other use. == Ranks == There are two systems of ranks within the clan. One system is purely cosmetic, which is used to compare skilling status within the clan. This is the main one used. The other system is with the administration key ranks for leaders and staff. Most people will only have to worry about the skilling status ranking system. ~~ Rank Points ~~ Rank Points are the basis of both the clan chat ranks and the clan hiscores. They are awarded based on your progress towards 200m Xp in skills. Slower or less afkable skills will give more points than faster or more afkable skills will. Keep in mind that these points do not judge your entire account, but only your progress towards 200m Xp in skills. For every X Xp, you get Y points: 40m Slay = 2 points 40m Rc = 3 points 40m Agil = 3 points 50m Wc = 2 points 50m Mine = 3 points 50m Fish = 3 points 100m Cook = 1 point 100m Fletch = 1 point 100m Fm = 2 points 100m Range = 2 points 100m Mage = 2 points 100m Con = 2 points 100m Thiev = 2 points 100m Hunt = 2 points 100m Craft = 2 points 100m Smith = 2 points 100m Dung = 2 points 100m Herb = 3 points 100m Pray = 3 points 100m Farm = 3 points 100m Summ = 3 points So, for example, if you had 120m Agility Xp and 100m Firemaking Xp, you would have (3x3)+(2x1) points. This is 11 points. Depending on how many points you have, you would obtain a certain rank in the clan chat. ~~ Titles/Ranks ~~ Junior Member = 0 points = 1 Banana Member = 2 points = 2 Bananas Advanced Member = 4 points = 3 Bananas True Master = 8 points = Bronze Star Elite Master = 15 points = Silver Star Legendary Master = 30 points = Gold Star To join TMOA, you essentially need 2 points. Every member is expected to aim for a "Master" title, the lowest of which is a bronze star. Junior members are those who managed to get into the clan when the requirements were lower or when they were more lax. The current ones are strict. People need to stop deflecting from the point at hand to start meaningless arguments about nothing... /backseat modding

Based on your stats if you want 99 slayer eventually I would just do that. Doing that would also get you 99 defense. If you are looking to profit to after shard and second costs I would do TDs with a polypore hybrid rather than corp, they are fairly slow charms, but you would also probably get 99 defense in that time and certainly profit. You could also make a decent amount at wyverns if you yak the bones. Can't bank bones with yak if my goal is getting 96 summon for yak before slaying. Haven't done WGS for TDs. Working on getting my Mew2 rank transferred to First Wagers for some money. If that is the case then barraging lobs here I come. Ha. Peace, Vann *Self-facepalm* Yeah I [bleep]ed up pretty hard there. Well then if you enjoy corp do it up. Pleasure of the gaming experience is certainly a factor in efficiency.

Based on your stats if you want 99 slayer eventually I would just do that. Doing that would also get you 99 defense. If you are looking to profit to after shard and second costs I would do TDs with a polypore hybrid rather than corp, they are fairly slow charms, but you would also probably get 99 defense in that time and certainly profit. You could also make a decent amount at wyverns if you yak the bones.

This is not at all how statistics works... Your assumptions about the population from your sample have a certain confidence, you neglect to mention them or even understand them. This is why the birthday problem makes no sense to you. Statistics can not be manipulated. It is an exact science. The meaning behind the statistical outcome can be misrepresented and/or misunderstood. Long story short effigies do not stack. The easiest way to understand this is that the four pairs of skills that any given effigy goes through is not determined upon the drop. Each time a player opens a stage the game rolls a die for the next stage's pair. /argument lets move on. Source? Process of deduction. If there were in fact 4096 different effigies jagex would have to make up a different item code for all of them and then they would have to add each of them to the drop table that contain effigies. they would also have to assign the non-stackable property to all of them. This process of coding make no sense what so ever. It makes much more sense to just design effigies the way I suggested and then you only need 1 spot on the drop table making things much more manageable. I suppose this is a bit of conjecture and the opposite of an argumentum ad hominem (confirmation bias?), assuming that Jagex makes intelligent programming decisions, but I would bet money on that this is the way the effigies are designed.

This is not at all how statistics works... Your assumptions about the population from your sample have a certain confidence, you neglect to mention them or even understand them. This is why the birthday problem makes no sense to you. Statistics can not be manipulated. It is an exact science. The meaning behind the statistical outcome can be misrepresented and/or misunderstood. Long story short effigies do not stack. The easiest way to understand this is that the four pairs of skills that any given effigy goes through is not determined upon the drop. Each time a player opens a stage the game rolls a die for the next stage's pair. /argument lets move on.

Congratulations Suomi! 15 200ms is crazy and what is more crazy is that you will soon have a 25m base along with 21 skills over 100m. Those place you at the top of the # of 200ms and # of 100ms. With 50m attack coming up soon you will break the tie between you and kingduffy for # of 50ms with 22. By the time you are done with attack you should be extremely close to a 50m base O.o Keep up the good work. Only 175m more attack xp until you get the [bleep] out of that cave lol. What are your plans for the order of the skills to come? I am guessing for efficiency sake: 1) HP, this should just happen right before 200m attack 2) Attack and RC, these two should happen exactly at the same time ideally through the investigation xp of your last effigy. (Goodluck making that work out to not waste xp =P) 3) Woodcutting 4) Thieving, because you make money, so that will help with crafting and summoning 5) Hunter, because you will get maybe 50k summoning xp from all of the arctic bear summons, but xp is xp =P 6) Summoning 7) Crafting 8) Farming 9) FMing, done last or ideally at the same time you max farming to take full utilization of book of char runs

Can you give a little more explanation of how the game works? How long does that aura/fire thing last? How far can you run with it before you are out of bounds? How much xp do you get per log? Does that xp per log change with time? Unless you already have 200m firemaking, or you have enough firemaking xp such that when you go for 200m WCing you will achieve 200m Firemaking with the adze xp. Otherwise everyone should be doing this.

Ok first off, I am not sure if you have said this, but people have been saying that he should max RC and then start opening effigies with summoning. No. Not at all, that would be inefficient. He should stop using his lamps on RC after he uses 1802 more on RC and then he should switch and start using his lamps on woodcutting that way he will max RC and Attack at the same time. Here is the proof for that figure below. Now about farming. Based on the fact that over the past year (1/8/11 - 1/8/12) Suomi has done 77.5m Farming xp, and assuming it takes him about a year to max from now he will be about 20m shy of 200m farming when he has 200m everything else. So again efficiency comes in to play here. If you want to be efficient in terms of play time you would use all of the lamps on WCing and then when everything is maxed but farming you would just log in to do farming runs. But I am sure that one would want 200m all ASAP in real time. So if Suomi were to use all of the extra lamps on WCing and still want to max at the end of the year, he would have to do watermellon and torstol runs which are about 15k xp for 10 minutes of work, so about 90k xp/hr. Since 90k is less than the 140k you can get WCing it would be efficient to use about 20m worth of lamps on farming. However This just doesn't feel right. And since there is going to be a year passing here things may change. So what I would do personally is keep opening your effigies until you have like 185m attack xp, and then for the rest of the time until 200m attack open your effigies to the gorged stage and then bank them. You should have 350 in the bank when you get 200m attack then. This will also let you see how many you have to investigate WCing and farming and some insurance banked xp. At this point I would do thieving to like 180m and at this point if nothing has changed in farming or Wcing I would just use them on farming, but you could stall longer. Get up to 180m hunter now and then so the same with crafting and if still nothing has changed use them on farming. I did a similar analysis about a month ago, which I'll now quote here. The thing to keep in mind is that his farming rates are heavily skewed by the amount of effigies he's opening, so you can't lump all his farming together. SUOMI has indeed been sticking to a nearly constant pace during the month since I posted this. I just recalculated his xp rates and nothing's changed by more than 5%. I conclude that my previous analysis is still valid. The one question I didn't address before, which has just come up in discussion, is farming: if SUOMI finishes melees using effigies for woodcutting, will he still get 200M farming before maxing everything else? I'm going to assume everything else goes exactly as I described above. SUOMI will thus finish crawlering around July 15 with 163M farming xp, and will finish all other skills around December 21. Thus, the question becomes, can he get 37M farming xp in 160 days? That would require about 230k farming xp per day. When SUOMI's farming wasn't supplemented by effigies (December 2010-February 2011), he was averaging ~165k xp per day. So it would seem that he will not finish farming on time if he doesn't do any extra training of it. He would end up with 200M in everything else, but only about 190M farming. Granted, that would only take a week or so to finish off with trees + crawlers, but why spend an unnecessary week? Taking this into account, the most efficient way to max is thus to crawler to 190M runecrafting, then spend an extra 10M in lamps on farming (~210 effigies), then use the rest on woodcutting until 200M attack. He should still finish crawlers around July 15, but with the following stats: 200M Attack 200M Defense 200M HP 162M WC 100M FM 125M Crafting 53M Thieving 173M Farming 200M RC 52M Hunting This will slow him down slightly from my original estimate, but not much. It does seem that SUOMI needs a bit more farming xp to not be working overtime to finish that off last, but only an extra 10M xp. After that extra 10M xp, he can use the rest of his lamps on wc and still finish farming on time. Your rates are bit off. It is ill advised to use average xp rates like that. It is better to use larger sample sizes like my approach to the effigy numbers. However you made me realize an error in my conclusion about farming that I will have to redress tomorrow. Which of my rates do you think are off? All are based on runetrack data of periods spanning more than a month, so I'm not sure what you mean by implying that my sample size is too small. Edit: I'm aware I have some rounding errors in my investigating skills, but I consider those errors small and, moreover, irrelevant to the farming discussion. I suppose for this type of calculation it is ok to take average xp rates, because you can use all of the information as a smoothing factor, but it is risky. When you start to use xp/hr or xp/day rates you are bringing in another factor that will make your calculations more inaccurate. The factor of time is very hard to measure when measuring hours people usually extrapolate from minutes, when measuring days we rely on tracker sites which have their own flaws. If you rely on pure xp to xp ratios you take the factor of time out off the equation and thus your predictions are more accurate. You are also averaging farming runs and investigation in the same rate. Same thing with RC lamps, investigation, and assists. I suppose I am just preaching to good statistic sampling practices when it is not needed, but asi es la vida. I am not sure what you mean here. Suomi wont be gaining any xp in summoning until after he finishes crawlers or the next BXPW, but it isn't really relevant to anything else. It is included in Geomoes' time calculator, but it is a very short time frame since it is such fast xp.

[spoiler=Large Quote] Ok first off, I am not sure if you have said this, but people have been saying that he should max RC and then start opening effigies with summoning. No. Not at all, that would be inefficient. He should stop using his lamps on RC after he uses 1802 more on RC and then he should switch and start using his lamps on woodcutting that way he will max RC and Attack at the same time. Here is the proof for that figure below. Now about farming. Based on the fact that over the past year (1/8/11 - 1/8/12) Suomi has done 77.5m Farming xp, and assuming it takes him about a year to max from now he will be about 20m shy of 200m farming when he has 200m everything else. So again efficiency comes in to play here. If you want to be efficient in terms of play time you would use all of the lamps on WCing and then when everything is maxed but farming you would just log in to do farming runs. But I am sure that one would want 200m all ASAP in real time. So if Suomi were to use all of the extra lamps on WCing and still want to max at the end of the year, he would have to do watermellon and torstol runs which are about 15k xp for 10 minutes of work, so about 90k xp/hr. Since 90k is less than the 140k you can get WCing it would be efficient to use about 20m worth of lamps on farming. However This just doesn't feel right. And since there is going to be a year passing here things may change. So what I would do personally is keep opening your effigies until you have like 185m attack xp, and then for the rest of the time until 200m attack open your effigies to the gorged stage and then bank them. You should have 350 in the bank when you get 200m attack then. This will also let you see how many you have to investigate WCing and farming and some insurance banked xp. At this point I would do thieving to like 180m and at this point if nothing has changed in farming or Wcing I would just use them on farming, but you could stall longer. Get up to 180m hunter now and then so the same with crafting and if still nothing has changed use them on farming. I did a similar analysis about a month ago, which I'll now quote here. The thing to keep in mind is that his farming rates are heavily skewed by the amount of effigies he's opening, so you can't lump all his farming together. SUOMI has indeed been sticking to a nearly constant pace during the month since I posted this. I just recalculated his xp rates and nothing's changed by more than 5%. I conclude that my previous analysis is still valid. The one question I didn't address before, which has just come up in discussion, is farming: if SUOMI finishes melees using effigies for woodcutting, will he still get 200M farming before maxing everything else? I'm going to assume everything else goes exactly as I described above. SUOMI will thus finish crawlering around July 15 with 163M farming xp, and will finish all other skills around December 21. Thus, the question becomes, can he get 37M farming xp in 160 days? That would require about 230k farming xp per day. When SUOMI's farming wasn't supplemented by effigies (December 2010-February 2011), he was averaging ~165k xp per day. So it would seem that he will not finish farming on time if he doesn't do any extra training of it. He would end up with 200M in everything else, but only about 190M farming. Granted, that would only take a week or so to finish off with trees + crawlers, but why spend an unnecessary week? Taking this into account, the most efficient way to max is thus to crawler to 190M runecrafting, then spend an extra 10M in lamps on farming (~210 effigies), then use the rest on woodcutting until 200M attack. He should still finish crawlers around July 15, but with the following stats: 200M Attack 200M Defense 200M HP 162M WC 100M FM 125M Crafting 53M Thieving 173M Farming 200M RC 52M Hunting This will slow him down slightly from my original estimate, but not much. It does seem that SUOMI needs a bit more farming xp to not be working overtime to finish that off last, but only an extra 10M xp. After that extra 10M xp, he can use the rest of his lamps on wc and still finish farming on time. Your rates are bit off. It is ill advised to use average xp rates like that. It is better to use larger sample sizes like my approach to the effigy numbers. However you made me realize an error in my conclusion about farming that I will have to redress tomorrow.

Ok first off, I am not sure if you have said this, but people have been saying that he should max RC and then start opening effigies with summoning. No. Not at all, that would be inefficient. He should stop using his lamps on RC after he uses 1802 more on RC and then he should switch and start using his lamps on woodcutting that way he will max RC and Attack at the same time. Here is the proof for that figure below. Using Suomi's stats tracked from Nov. 16th (when he stopped crafting) to Jan 8th (today) Average # of effigies investigated for each skill. WC: 649.77 Craft: 628 FM: 633.33 Thief: 650.22 Hunter: 684 Avg # of effigies = 650 Melee xp/Effigy 76,521.29 Total Remaining Melee xp 191,173,615 Expected Effigies to be obtained 2498 Total Investigation xp per skill 28,102,500 Total Lamp xp 119,976,442 Remaining RC xp 114,619,305 Remaining RC xp to be Lamped 86,516,805 Number of Lamps needed to max RC 1802 Remaining Lamp xp to be used on WCing 33,459,637 EDIT: Ignore the below. I found an error in my thought process. The same idea still applies, but the numbers are off. The above is still true though and holds valid and very accurate. Now about farming. Based on the fact that over the past year (1/8/11 - 1/8/12) Suomi has done 77.5m Farming xp, and assuming it takes him about a year to max from now he will be about 20m shy of 200m farming when he has 200m everything else. So again efficiency comes in to play here. If you want to be efficient in terms of play time you would use all of the lamps on WCing and then when everything is maxed but farming you would just log in to do farming runs. But I am sure that one would want 200m all ASAP in real time. So if Suomi were to use all of the extra lamps on WCing and still want to max at the end of the year, he would have to do watermellon and torstol runs which are about 15k xp for 10 minutes of work, so about 90k xp/hr. Since 90k is less than the 140k you can get WCing it would be efficient to use about 20m worth of lamps on farming. However This just doesn't feel right. And since there is going to be a year passing here things may change. So what I would do personally is keep opening your effigies until you have like 185m attack xp, and then for the rest of the time until 200m attack open your effigies to the gorged stage and then bank them. You should have 350 in the bank when you get 200m attack then. This will also let you see how many you have to investigate WCing and farming and some insurance banked xp. At this point I would do thieving to like 180m and at this point if nothing has changed in farming or Wcing I would just use them on farming, but you could stall longer. Get up to 180m hunter now and then so the same with crafting and if still nothing has changed use them on farming.

That is pretty cool Jebrim. Seems very well designed. Also just a question about ratios. Since agility is now 115k xp/hr for absolute maximum it probably isn't worth continuing crawlers after max combat and slayer+RC. So that means you will be doing agility at the FPF and that means you will get herb xp. So I want to know the ratio of herb xp to agility xp you get there. I can easility find this out on a tracker looking at a few months of your account (Jebrim III) but do you do anything else on that account? Other than FPF? Because that would throw off the figures. That's the 30th of december, now about a week later Suomi is almost 23m base. That's a very neat xp rate in skills you're not focusing on :P. It is pretty crazy that Suomi is training every single skill he has left to do other than attack right now and getting about a 1m a week in investigation skills and probably a few hundred thousand xp in charms for summoning. However unless Suomi feels inclined to get 30k attack xp it seems he will be stuck at a 22m base until after 200m defense.

Suomi gets 1m defense xp at crawlers with out logging out O.o That is dedication. On second thought that must be an update glitch in Runetracker because isn't there some 6 hour auto log off system? Based on his XP rates it seems as though right about the time he gets 200m defense he will get 100m RC, this should happen the end of January. He will certainly already have 100m WC and it seems like he will be about 1m off 100m Crafting. So about a week after 200m defense he should get to 30m attack and that will give him the 1m crafting he needs to have only 4 skills under 100m xp. That is pretty damn crazy. And then right around the end of February (two months from now) it looks like he should have 50m attack and that means he will only have 2 skills under 50m. How goes the charm collection Suomi? Getting a decent ratio of blues? Or are you going to be running just a pile of crimsons? Or is it so bad that you may have to run the dreaded greens?

Depending on how much scaping Suomi has done in the past 17 hours since his last update, he could currently have a 500m lead on Jake. If not I am sure that within the next day Suomi will secure his half billion xp lead on his closest competition. Pretty crazy... EDIT: Any idea what dragonseance is cannoning now that he is done with slayer? He is getting a ton of bonecrusher and herbacide xp and it seems that he has to use an agility gap to get there.

Suomi is currently on a 26.6m RC month for 3rd on the records page (2nd really, 8ay's 53m record has to be a name change.) Does anyone know what the actual RC record is? by actually runecrafting and not effigycrafting? It is Ari's 19m month?

Him and Da Broman1 are both very close to breaking Zarfot's highest xp in lowest skill record with 36m. Allie is far closer, having a 36m almost exactly base atm. So he/she should beat zarfots within the week at the least. Oh wow I didn't know about that player. He/she is very close and after he/she gets the 36m base, 40m base isn't far away either. In other news of (x) base xp, With his latest batch of effigy opening Suomi just hit 20m base with hunter. So congrats to him. He is also less than 900k from 3.7 billion xp.

Him and Da Broman1 are both very close to breaking Zarfot's highest xp in lowest skill record with 36m.

Add up a player's rank in each of the skills, and that's his/her total. Yes this is exactly what I meant. I think its the sum of all the player's ranks. Edit: Ninja'd.. anyway, KingDuffy is at 2604 right now That is what I figured and the 2.7k sounds about right considering he is at 2.6k now.

Does anyone know who had the lowest total rank before the highscores went p2p? I think that would be an interesting stat. I am assuming it was kingduffy, but does anyone know for sure and if so what the total rank was for that player?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eelpsr7kTH8 Doesn't seem like it would be the fastest, and it means you would be maging, so for those trying to training melee, cralwers would still be better, but this just adds to the options.

Technically he is not training RC currently. He is training defense and then attack. Even though cave crawlers at 80k xp/hr is slower than the 200k/hr you could get at vyrelords. The time lost is more than made up for in the time saved with effigies. Currently cave crawlers is the optimal method of maxing melee. Totally unrelated if you had 200m all cmb skills cave crawlers are still the optimal method of runecrafting because even though they are only about 50k-60k xp/hr as opposed to the 69k/hr you can get at ZMI the extra investigation xp more than makes up for that time lost. So just as a thought experiment say Suomi gets really unlucky with effigy drops and does not max RC before maxing Melee. If no new method for RC is released he would stay at cave crawlers, but what if a new method was released? How fast would that method have to be for it to be optimal over cave crawlers? Well assuming that you get about 1 effigy per hour at crawlers on average, you would solve this inequality, where (x) is the maximum rc xp/hr. 1 > 11.25*(1/660+ 1/1300+ 1/x+ 1/275 + 1/260+ 1/140-0.3/600+ 1/600)+(48.029/x) Therefore x>74.4113 So if the new method is more than 74.4k xp/hr and suomi has maxed melee already then he should use that method, otherwise he should keep cave crawlering. So basically he is training melee in the optimal method, which just happens to be the current optimal method for runecrafting.

If you take some time to prepare and you got stacks of gp, you can get 200m construction xp in one day. Spend like 10b on zobie imp jars, get tons of curved/long bones, run them for about 4-5 hours getting around 3m xp an hour you will get 0-99 and then do demonic thrones for about 16-17 hours at around 12m xp an hour and... bam! 0xp - 200m xp in a day. I don't know if any of the quests needed to unlock the guy in DK you run the bones to gives construction xp, but if it does you probably have time for it, but just barely, unless it is a lot of quests stacked up on each other.

Why would he pay off his debt before quitting? Friendship? Trust? Morality?... I guess these are lost on some.

Now time to get 500m more range xp lol. =P Only noobs stop at 200m. I find it hysterical that all of your post level 99 range xp is solely from cannoning and steel titan. Time spent getting 200m range = 0 hours. Random question: I remember way back in the day ueax got a fire cape on a level 40, has that record been beaten?

Looks like Suomi got extremely lucky with effigies today. he got about a 1:2 ratio of RC to Range xp. That means he was getting around 90k RC xp per hour =P That is pretty ridiculous. Plus all of the defense and investigation xp. It also looks like he should get 200m range tomorrow and tie Jake with 14 200m skills.