Xensure

Yeah I don't know enough about the drop "wheels" in RS to tell you. It really depends on what wheel effigies are on.

I am putting this here for anyone who can help me correct somethings. Here is all of the data that I am using to calculate the optimal slayer task list. If you see anything that is incorrect please correct me on it. One thing that I know is wrong is kalphites. I understand that there is now a new spot for them after the do no evil quest. What kind of kalphites are those ones? what is their cmb lvl? what is their lp? what are their charm drop rates? what is the kills per hour? https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArnOOByXmd2_dHJzUlhvNXp3TExEZU5hbUdWNVlrUGc&hl=en&authkey=CPeb_70K So please go through and look at the info, tell me if something seems wrong, and give me the correct information.

I would say 1 year if the player start w/o cash. Are there not records for this? I know that people compete for the fastest time to max level in WOW. Do people not do this in RS? I am sure there are at least a few people have tried this. But I can say that it would be infinitely more difficult to calculate the optimal method for lvl 99 all skills than 200m all skills. So much changes level to level that the myriad of variables would be too much to handle in a neat little package like Thai's route to 200m all. EDIT: Also quick question. The new ROW update doesn't effect charm drop rates right? ROW didn't effect them in the past, so I would assume not, but I am not sure. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Well first off what is the SS forums? I will just read the replies for myself so I don't need a relay. But thanks for spreading my lists around I would like to get as much feedback as possible. For Kalphites I am using the level 85 ones, with 900LP and I have them at 411.1 kills per hour. At this rate they are only 37k slayer xp/h. So are people using a different Kalphite? Is the kills per hour dramatically increased? And this will certainly effect most lists if they are a good task now. I just need the new data to recalculate. Waterfiends are pretty much worthless considering they are only about 37k slayer xp/h and 3.7 hours per effigy. The 105k summoning xp/h is devalued in an optimal list to 200m all skills since you will have a lot of melee xp left after 200m slayer anyway, getting you a ton more charms form whatever you choose to train on. (Crawlers optimally.) You can still get a 1:1 sum:slayer ratio with out them, and my list got like .9 sum to slayer so when it is a skill as fast as summoning it isn't really that much of a time saver since time spent collecting charms is 0 because it is done through training slayer or maxing cmb after slayer. My max slayer xp list is messed up. Aasiwat pointed out a flaw in my point sustainability, so that whole list needs to get redone so once I get this new info on Kalphites I will redo all of the lists and repost. Also I think one thing that was missed I am not sure which one of my posts it was in, but I said to do jad tasks in the optimal list and that is not right, you want to block them and cancel living rock creatures (I think. I will have to double check that.) You should have enough point sustainability to do that.

Thanks a lot Gem, however I can't use any of that other than finding you the numbers on that specific task list. The problem with the probability of assignment is that when you have tasks block or not unlocked through quests or points, the frequencies that you find are not the actual frequencies. I need someone to go through with all tasks unlocked and unblocked and then do 100+ tasks (preferably more) to get the probability of assignment for each task. This is the best way to estimate the probability of assignment when any given task is blocked. Even this isn't truly accurate though because once you block your 5 tasks I think the probability of assignment changes based on the NPCs you have blocked. So this is much more complicated than can be accounted for unless someone can hack the source code and find out what function Jagex used for the probability of assignment. >.> I think something like what Vex did with effigies might be able to done with the frequency of a task. If we plot the probability of assignment against the NPCs cmb lvl, if it is a slayer mob, what slayer lvl you need to kill it, what tasks you have blocked, and NPC's LP. (+ any other variables that could effect the probability) Take out the ones that clearly don't correlate and then produce a function based on (x) amount of variables to predict the probability of assignment for any mob even new ones that jagex will come out with.

Yeah Pretty much. I just put that in there because I got a lot of people saying that they didn't want to give up abby tasks because they weren't rich enough to pass up the whip drops, so I just make that list. If I can get the drop rates of the expensive drops and the cost per tasks for all of the npcs I can make an optimal list based on all 4 criteria: Effigies, Charms, Xp, and Profit. What I will do once I get that data is put a input cell in the sheet where you put in your max gp/h money making method. And then the task list will be optimally designed for you personally. Currently none of the lists I have posted take in to account profit/cost, but only because I don't have the data to find those lists. Also I have heard talk that Aasiwat doesn't use Kuradel, which may be optimal. If I can get the full task lists for all of the higher level slayer masters and a few more data points I can check those lists for optimal out puts as well. I need the NPC for each slayer master, their cmb lvl, the slayer xp they provide, the probability of assignment, their charm drop rates, and their kills/h. If I can get all of that I can find the optimal list for each slayer master and compare those lists. Or lists based on different criteria other than maximum efficiency.

Congratulations Paper! Well done. I am excited to see what is next. Any hints for the trackers in this thread? No, they all actually hate each other with a passion. There is the most intense rivalry to have ever existed in the top 21 from any era. Why do you think N0valyfe stopped playing? Zezima didn't like the competition so he dds speced him irl. Same thing with Gertjaars. Aasiwat is a murderous fiend. Paperbag didn't really report avansie autoers. He just wanted to secure his position in the top21 so he offed a few kids. No big deal.

Just a mistake I didn't notice. Thanks for pointing it out. I am far from infallible. I will have to rework that list so that it has sustainable slayer points. But when I have 6 blocks and aqua's are in there, it just means it is optimal to not unlock them. I suppose I should make two lists for each criteria because if you can't block aqua's you have to cancel them and that hurts points sustainability. Could anyone give me the drop rates of SOL, whips, Dbows, dboots, visages, Dchain (from dusts), Dleg and Dskirt from both steels and irons, Dfull helm as a drop, and as reward from chewed bones, Dmed from anything that drops it, same thing for any worth while rune items from any mob. and the approximate cost per task for each mob.

Thanks Ari, Just another possible list, Note, if you were to cancel black demons you could reach 77k/h but you would lose like 0.16 points per task so if you have some points saved up and you need some extra slayer xp. [spoiler=Maximum Slayer xp/h counting effigies on slayer, with sustainable slayer points]Bloodvelds Do TzHaar (Jad) Do Dagannoth Do Aberrant spectres Do Hellhounds Do Suqahs Do Dark beasts Do Living rock creatures Do Ice strykewyrms Do Black demons Do Black dragons Cancel Dust devils Cancel Fire giants Cancel Warped tortoises Cancel Waterfiends Cancel Kalphites Cancel Blue dragons Cancel Terror dogs Cancel Gargoyles Cancel Iron dragons Cancel Skeletal wyverns Cancel Jungle strykewyrms Cancel Greater demons Cancel Steel dragons Cancel Nechryaels Blocked Aquanites Blocked Abyssal demons Blocked Desert strykewyrms Blocked Mithril dragons Blocked Spiritual mages Blocked Total Slayer Xp 185,000,000 Total Green Charms 67,621 Total Crimson Charms 73,894 Total Blue Charms 38,521 Hours to Run Charms 51.439 Total Summon Xp 72,769,105 Sum:Slayer Ratio 0.393346512 Total Effigies 1,296 Total Investigation xp 14,583,973 Total Lamp Xp 62,262,548 Slayer xp:Effigy Ratio 142708.02 Total Hours Slaying 3218.69 Average Xp/hour 57,476.83 Avxp/h w/ Eff on Slay 76,820.91 E(Slayer points) 1.594029851

Just testing out my model a little messing around with different task lists and such. I am trying to make it user friendly so I can maybe get it posted with Grimy's spreadsheets once I have enough information and get all of the data populated. It can basically tell you everything you would want to know about any specific task list so people can design their own task lists that work for their parameters. Here are just a few examples: **note** E(slayer points) means the expected number of slayer points you should get each time you "roll" for a new task. If it is possible you shouldn't run out of points unless you have bad luck, but the higher the better. [spoiler=The Optimal Task list based on least time to 200m all skills.]Bloodvelds Do Dark beasts Do Ice strykewyrms Do Black demons Do Hellhounds Do Dagannoth Do Aberrant spectres Do Black dragons Do Suqahs Do Steel dragons Do Iron dragons Do Mithril dragons Do TzHaar (Jad) Cancel Terror dogs Cancel Dust devils Cancel Warped tortoises Cancel Blue dragons Cancel Waterfiends Cancel Jungle strykewyrms Cancel Fire giants Cancel Kalphites Cancel Gargoyles Cancel Skeletal wyverns Cancel Greater demons Cancel Nechryaels Blocked Desert strykewyrms Blocked Living rock creatures Blocked Aquanites Blocked Abyssal demons Blocked Spiritual mages Blocked Total Slayer Xp 185,000,000 Total Green Charms 372,107 Total Crimson Charms 194,022 Total Blue Charms 61,031 Hours to Run Charms 179.189 Total Summon Xp 189,690,857 Sum:Slayer Ratio 1.025355982 Total Effigies 2,285 Total Investigation xp 25,703,552 Total Lamp Xp 109,734,745 Slayer xp:Effigy Ratio 80971.30 Total Hours Slaying 4354.27 Average Xp/hour 42,486.98 E(Slayer points) 4.086956522 [spoiler=Same as above, but doing abbies and blocking warped torts.]Total Slayer Xp 185,000,000 Total Green Charms 324,393 Total Crimson Charms 220,393 Total Blue Charms 53,423 Hours to Run Charms 170.917 Total Summon Xp 187,842,420 Sum:Slayer Ratio 1.015364433 Total Effigies 2,143 Total Investigation xp 24,108,055 Total Lamp Xp 102,923,180 Slayer xp:Effigy Ratio 86330.07 Total Hours Slaying 4471.13 Average Xp/hour 41,376.55 E(Slayer points) 8.383333333 [spoiler=Maximum Slayer xp/h with sustainable slayer points]Bloodvelds Do TzHaar (Jad) Do Dagannoth Do Aberrant spectres Do Hellhounds Do Suqahs Do Dark beasts Do Living rock creatures Do Dust devils Do Black demons Do Warped tortoises Do Fire giants Cancel Waterfiends Cancel Kalphites Cancel Blue dragons Cancel Terror dogs Cancel Black dragons Cancel Gargoyles Cancel Desert strykewyrms Cancel Iron dragons Cancel Skeletal wyverns Cancel Jungle strykewyrms Cancel Greater demons Cancel Steel dragons Cancel Ice strykewyrms Blocked Nechryaels Blocked Aquanites Blocked Abyssal demons Blocked Mithril dragons Blocked Spiritual mages Blocked Total Slayer Xp 185,000,000 Total Green Charms 79,413 Total Crimson Charms 104,836 Total Blue Charms 36,580 Hours to Run Charms 63.094 Total Summon Xp 86,535,869 Sum:Slayer Ratio 0.467761456 Total Effigies 1,183 Total Investigation xp 13,313,339 Total Lamp Xp 56,837,898 Slayer xp:Effigy Ratio 156328.18 Total Hours Slaying 3323.06 Average Xp/hour 55,671.65 Avxp/h w/ Eff on Slay 72,775.76 E(Slayer points) 1.661538462 [spoiler=Maximum Sum xp/h with sustainable slayer points]Waterfiends Do Skeletal wyverns Do Mithril dragons Do Black demons Do Nechryaels Do Steel dragons Do Suqahs Do Dust devils Do Iron dragons Do Black dragons Do Aberrant spectres Do Dark beasts Do Blue dragons Cancel Greater demons Cancel Aquanites Cancel Dagannoth Cancel Gargoyles Cancel Terror dogs Cancel Kalphites Cancel Hellhounds Cancel Warped tortoises Cancel Bloodvelds Cancel Fire giants Cancel Jungle strykewyrms Cancel Abyssal demons Blocked Desert strykewyrms Blocked Living rock creatures Blocked Ice strykewyrms Blocked TzHaar (Jad) Blocked Spiritual mages Blocked Total Slayer Xp 185,000,000 Total Green Charms 418,971 Total Crimson Charms 470,313 Total Blue Charms 60,245 Hours to Run Charms 271.294 Total Summon Xp 316,553,079 Sum:Slayer Ratio 1.711097726 Total Effigies 2,321 Total Investigation xp 26,111,540 Total Lamp Xp 111,476,549 Slayer xp:Effigy Ratio 79706.14 Total Hours Slaying 5206.31 Average Xp/hour 35,533.84 Avxp/h w/ Eff on Slay 56,945.67 E(Slayer points) 0.67826087 [spoiler=Maximum Effigies/h with sustainable slayer points.]Black dragons Do Black demons Do Steel dragons Do Bloodvelds Do Hellhounds Do Mithril dragons Do Dark beasts Do Suqahs Do Ice strykewyrms Do Iron dragons Do Aberrant spectres Do Dagannoth Cancel Terror dogs Cancel Blue dragons Cancel Warped tortoises Cancel Gargoyles Cancel Waterfiends Cancel Aquanites Cancel Dust devils Cancel Jungle strykewyrms Cancel Kalphites Cancel Skeletal wyverns Cancel Greater demons Cancel Fire giants Cancel TzHaar (Jad) Blocked Spiritual mages Blocked Nechryaels Blocked Desert strykewyrms Blocked Abyssal demons Blocked Living rock creatures Blocked Total Slayer Xp 185,000,000 Total Green Charms 403,610 Total Crimson Charms 204,098 Total Blue Charms 66,138 Hours to Run Charms 192.527 Total Summon Xp 202,940,276 Sum:Slayer Ratio 1.096974463 Total Effigies 2,419 Total Investigation xp 27,214,178 Total Lamp Xp 116,183,979 Slayer xp:Effigy Ratio 76476.68 Total Hours Slaying 4550.91 Average Xp/hour 40,651.23 Avxp/h w/ Eff on Slay 66,181.07 E(Slayer points) 0.67826087 Once I get profit figures I can accommodate that in to the model.

Thanks Xen this is exactly what I was looking for thanks for taking into account you do nt have to get 200m sum with 200m slayer. Also, is this break even or gain more slayer points? Lastly I belive it was vivs or vex's guide I forgot witch of the V's it was but said with their task list it something like +8gp/xp even if powerslaying what kinds + or - gp/xp would this task list be like. You should go slightly positive on points, but if you have a streak of bad luck, you should just do a few terror dog and dust devil tasks. As for profit/loss I can't make any predictions about that until I know about how much you spend for each of the tasks on the "Do" list and the drop% of the valuable drops from them as well. So there are a few data points I would like from anyone in this thread who slays. 1) the drop rates of any worth while items from the "Do" list (Preferably all NPCs) 2) The costs of 1 full assignment of all of the "Do" list NPCs (Preferably all NPCs) 3) If any of the NPCs have a dramatic shift in their kills/h 4) If anyone is going to adopt my task list could you please track your assignments, because I believe that, while Viv's contribution of task frequencies w/o blocks helped a lot in finding the optimal task list, when you block tasks it changes the frequency of the other block tasks non-linearly. This means that I can't just extrapolate the frequencies in order to get expected charms, effigies, and other drops like I am currently doing. My estimates are close, but not exact so if someone could start getting the frequencies based on this exact task list I can provide much more accurate expected charms, effigies, prayer xp, and profit/loss.

Alright he are my predictions in more detail. Optimal Task List: Do: Bloodvelds Dark beasts Black demons Ice strykewyrms Hellhounds Aberrant spectres Dagannoth Black dragons Suqahs Steel dragons TzHaar (Jad) Iron dragons Mithril dragons Cancel: Terror dogs Dust devils Warped tortoises Blue dragons Waterfiends Fire giants Gargoyles Kalphites Skeletal wyverns Greater demons Jungle strykewyrms Blocked: Nechryaels Desert strykewyrms Living rock creatures Aquanites Abyssal demons Spiritual mages This takes in to account charm rates, Effigy rates, slayer xp, kills per hour, and frequency of assignment. Based upon Viv's frequency my model predicts that over 185m slayer xp if you use effigies on anything but slayer, you should expected: Total Summon Xp: 168,614,094.75 (330,762 greens, 172,464 crims, and 54,249 blues) Total Prayer Xp: 23,697,966 (Bone crusher for all bones, and Infernal Urns for all ashes) Total Effigies: 2,031 Total Investigation xp: 22,847,601.42 Total Lamp Xp: 97,541,995.43 Total Hours Slaying: 4148.244148 Average Xp/hour: 44,597.18 I am trying to figure out how to make all of my formulas work if you use effigies on slayer, but that seems to [bleep] everything up right now. That wouldn't change the task list, just total hours and xp.

Ok So I tried my hand at getting the optimal task list. I used a system of ranking every kill in hours saved per kill, then multiplied by kills per hour to get hours saved per hour at that monster, then I ranked these numbers with a (H/avgH)^(average number assigned/kills per hour) My model produced this list, ranking the tasks from best to worst: [spoiler=Task Rankings]Bloodvelds Dark beasts Black demons Ice strykewyrms Hellhounds Aberrant spectres Dagannoth Black dragons Suqahs Steel dragons TzHaar (Jad) Iron dragons Mithril dragons Terror dogs Dust devils Nechryaels Warped tortoises Desert strykewyrms Blue dragons Living rock creatures Waterfiends Jungle strykewyrms Fire giants Gargoyles Kalphites Aquanites Skeletal wyverns Abyssal demons Greater demons Spiritual mages Note: this does not mean that you should block the worst 5, I will have to take in to account frequency to find the best ones to block. Anomalies: The three tasks I find are in weird spots are; hellhounds seem too high, and waterfiends and wyverns seem too low. Question: are Jad and Mages the only tasks that don't drop effigies?

Thai's technique does work. His formula does produce a pure number with no units so the scaling is simply the higher the better. Even though these numbers are ranked on an arbitrary scale it doesn't mean they are invalid, but I do think there is a better way to do rank the tasks. I think if everything was related back to time we might get more precise rankings. Though I am not quite sure how to do this. The criteria that make a task good or bad are: - Charm drop rate (I think we should only include green, crim, and blue) - Effigy drop rate - kill rate - NPC's LP Criteria that determine /how/ good or bad a task is: - Frequency of assignment - Average Number assigned Misc. criteria that doesn't concern fastest route to 200m all skills, but others will certainly be concerned with. - Profit/loss - The "fun factor" We should also take in to account if you have bank more than once for the task, and how long it takes to get to where you slay, but since we don't have the figures for these we leave them of the calculations and they shouldn't really effect much anyway, so it's not a big deal. Now for how to combine all of the criteria in to a meaningful output that will also have a scale to it to rank the tasks... Charms: Take the drop% for green, crim, and blue charms for each NPC and times it by 154.4, 435.2, 783.2 which are the sum xp for each charm respectively. This would give you the total expected summoning xp per kill. Then divide by (783.2*3500) = 2,741,200 which is the maximum reasonable summoning xp/h. Thus giving you hours of summon per kill. Effigies: first we need the hours saved from one effigy. Which is = [11.250*(1/72+ 1/95+ 1/65+ 1/80+ 1/300 + 1/245+ 1/100+ 1/473)]+[48.029/(x)] The (x) is where you would put the max xp rate of the skill you are using the effigy lamps on. I am going to use 45k/h for slayer. Thus the effigies are worth 1.87538681 hours of skilling. Then we divide by kills per effigies to get hours of skilling per kill. Slayer xp: This is relatively simple, take the LP of the monster, which is the slayer xp it gives, then divide by max slayer xp per hour, so 45k/h and you will get hours of slayer per kill. Now that you have these three numbers which are all in hours per kill multiply by the kills per hour you can get at each NPC and this will give you a number to rank of the hours saved per hour at each NPC. The more hours saved the better. Profit could easily be worked in to this by taking the profit per kill and dividing by your maximum gp/h rate adding it in to the other three criteria and it will rank with those hours in mind as well. Now I just need the kills/h for each NPC and I can calculate this list.

His math does make sense, and his methods do work. The problem with his method is that is equates everything equally. It says that slayer xp/h or is just as valuable as summon xp/h which is just as valuable as effigies per hour. This is where the problem lies. If you were to want equal amounts of slayer xp, sum xp, and effigies then Thai's list is the optimal list, but I think many people want the list that will result in 200m all skills the fastest. (Ok so most people don't want that either, but at least it is more relevant to the "optimal task list.") I am working on something that takes a different approach and I am being careful to make sure that I cancel all units so that the numbers can be compared properly.

What if you had 99HP you and you were wearing the torva plate and had max HP, so that you would have 1190LP. If you were to unequip it, you would drop imediately back down to 990LP, but what if you didn't take it off and just equipped a pernix body? This also gives +200LP so would you stay at 1190LP? or would you drop to 990LP and then the stat restore would take over and you would rise slowly back to 1190LP? This would be important to know if the sets ever become cheap enough to hybrid something with.

How many tasks do you have logged so far?

He just got 200m slayer and strength. Hopefully he moves on to cannoning crawlers, demons, or dragons next to finish out range and get a bunch of extra effigies. Or maybe 200m dungeon.

Tezz is 600k from 200m str and surely has enough effigies for 200m slayer, so he should have quite the record day if he drops like 9-10m lamps, like 17m in investigation, and however many blues he can use. I doubt he has enough charms for 200m summ, but he certainly has a lot. Question, does any know what happened to Toony? Did he quit? He must have had effigies saved up that he didn't use and he had a bunch of charms too. He could have certainly became a contender if he got maxed total, dumped his effigies and charms, then start in on dungeon.

You smuggled a cannon into CT :o Curious how you get 450+ black demons kills an hour. That's beastly. Im not actually getting the kills atm but I think it is relatively possible if this thing works. Ive been sick for the last few days working on making a vid atm and ill mention that somewhere near the end tbh since im not feeling good im just going to mention how I think it can be done and then other people can see if will actually work or not however Now that i think about it even if it is faster effigy/h crawlers might still be better for a reason or 2 but ill leave that to thai and x ti figure out =p I am quite interested in this. According to Vex's effigyscape Cave Crawlers are 55min per effigy, so for Black Demons to be faster you would have to kill at least 500 per hour. But if they profit I think people would certainly take a hit on total xp/h because they would actually be feasible, unlike crawlers. So goodluck developing the method. p.s. Interested now paperbag? lol.

Cancelling 300 times is 9k points, yes, but that is NOT the number of cancels required to do 300 straight tasks of ice strykes. You're assuming that after only one cancel each time your next task will be ice strykes, and that is not true. On average you'll have to cancel many times per each task of ice strykes, and need a ridiculous number of total points to do this. Viv isn't planning to do 300 ice stryke tasks in a row, just get a continous set of ice tasks. exactly i meant if unblock everything to get the 300 fast to find the frequency id skip everything and see the correct frequency besides icestryke i dont know how many task it accually would be lol or if ill do it yet tho :P Yes Viv. Cancelling will do fine. All you need is to have all of the tasks unblocked so that you have the chance to be assigned them. Keep a list of all of the tasks that kuradel assigns and just put a hash mark next to the NPC each time you get assigned it. There is no need to actually do the task. You could also do any task you want, but simply going through and cancelling every task will work perfectly and be the quickest method. Thanks for doing this if you go through with it. Paper, while it would be optimal to camp for slayer, rc, agil, and maybe fishing, but there is no need to actually do all of them there. Doing the optimal method for everything is certainly quixotic and in human. But if you were to just do slayer there it would take you around 3800 hours and would result in: 42.75m to all of the investigating skills, 304m melee xp, and 200m summoning. (Though I would recommend waiting on summoning until after you finish melee because then you wont have to use any gold and relatively little greens.) at 5.4k cballs per hour and 285 per ball it would cost you around 6b. If you did 200m slayer will effigies used on slayer it would take 2777 hours and would result in 14m to all of the investigating skills, 250m melee xp, and 200m summoning.

Unfortunately we cannot get the optimal task lists until someone tests the assignment frequency :( You need the frequency to firstly find if a task with decent effigies assigned often is better than a task with good effigies assigned rarely. You also need it to find how many points you will have left after skipping the worst task, then the 2nd worst ect... until you have spent all your points. Thanks Thai :) Zarfot happened to have four data sets of task frequencies (RSOF qfc: 98-99-600-61329204, page 20) so there's the first step lol. I guess I'll just do Vex's max effigy tasks when I start slaying, unless the optimal Slayer xp task list is eventually discovered (I'll stay tuned :D ). His final task list is the one I am using for my spreadsheet, but the problem is that he had 6 tasks blocked for each of those lists so the frequencies are all wrong. The tasks he had blocked could never have been assigned while he was taking that data. So you can't just take the number of time say abbys were assigned in this 3rd list and add it to the 4th to find out the probability of being assigned them. We need someone to remove all of their blocks and do at least 100 probably closer to 300 tasks to find the actual probability of assignment. That person must be 93 slayer, 138cmb, have a fire cape, and have aquntines(sp?) unlocked. This allows the player the chance of being assigned any one of the tasks from (most likely) Kuradel. Once we have the true probability of assignment we can find the optimal tasks to do/cancel/block. From that list I can predict the expected, charms, prayer xp, herb xp, and revenue. If one were to also figure out the kills/h of each NPC on the do list, we could also have a better approximation for the total time needed for 200m slayer instead of relying on the average rate of 45k/h. @Drum: I wasn't saying he doesn't care I am sure he does otherwise he wouldn't have done it in the first place. I was just saying that he didn't speed up. My guess is that he knows if aasiwat want to he could take back rank one in like 2 months and you could also with your saved sw points, or just no life fletching. He is still going a pretty fast rate though, I wouldn't call 14m weeks slow. He is just spreading out his time between several skills. But enough speculating about what a person I don't know cares about or is doing. I am sure you guys are friends with and would know better than I.

Agreed, Jd seems to want to keep his distance from Drumgun for the time being though. Actually Jd claims to not care at all lol About Dungeoneering, Paper, why don't you just solo it? People freak out over the Xp/hr rate, but almost nobody actuallys know exactly how much it is. Just do c6 meds all the way and make sure you have some plate armor. Armor > ssh in solo. I personally was getting about 50k-60k Xp/hr at any time on any floor in my late 70s. Ice floors are faster but less Xp and as you go deeper, the slower and more Xp floors keep the balance so that you're always getting roughly the same Xp/hr rate. At levels 100+, Dg solo is likely still well over 100k Xp/hr(probably 150k+), which alone makes it a viable option for training. Or maybe I'm the only one who sees it that way, considering I think that anything faster than Agility is absurdly fast. :P @Maka Drumgun is definitely NOT going for all 200m's so your arguments make absolutely no sense lol. It's just that Drum and Jd were about even a couple weeks ago, and now Jd's about 15m ahead. Not anything major, to me it just seemed like he picked up the pace a little bit such as training more thieving to create a gap for the time being before Drum moves on to faster skills. No Jd has stayed at the same pace. Drum finished out range, and move on the the much slower skill WCing. That is why he lost ground. Thieving, slayer, and dungeon are all faster total xp than chopping ivy.

I have made a model in excel that attempts to calculate the expected number of kills for each NPC on any particular task list over any interval of xp after 93 slayer. I used zarfot's task frequencies from his last task list. Again I have no proof that it is the optimal task list, but Thai's formula should help with that. I also used his slayer log data to get charm drop rates. His data can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/?jijr4ysu5ihmihk Since this model give the expected number of kills for each NPC, I have already calculated the expected number of crimson and blue charms, the expect prayer xp from bonecrusher and urns on black demon tasks. If I was given the approximate drop rate of herbs from all of the NPCs I could get the expected herbacide xp. Also with the drop rates of the more valuable drops I could get the expected revenue. Pretty much with specific drop rates I could get the expected number of any drop from all of the NPC that are from Zarfot's final task list. This is where my problem is. I only have the frequencies from that specific task list so I can only make predictions based on that task list only. If there is someone with 93 slayer and 138cmb willing to unblock all tasks and do like 300 tasks to figure out the true frequency of tasks from at least kuradel(sp?) if not more of the task masters. Or if someone happens to have a lot of slayer points saved up and is willing sacrifice them to science (lol) they could just unblock all tasks and then get and cancel at least 100, but more would be better, tasks in a row and just write down each one this would find the frequencies. So if anyone can give me the drop rates for pretty much any item from any of these NPCs, I can get the expected number you should get over the course of any interval of slayer xp. Ice strykewyrms Steel dragons Bloodvelds Dagannoth Black demons Dark beasts Waterfiends Aberrant spectres Mithril dragons Black dragons Iron dragons Skeletal wyverns Suqahs Hellhounds **note** Zarfot cancelled from here down. Greater demons Nechryaels Dust devils Fire giants TzHaar Terror dogs Warped tortoises Blue dragons Kalphites Spiritual mages Zarfot has these blocked so I don't have frequencies thus I can not make predictions about the number killed: Abyssal demons Aquanites Desert strykewyrms Gargoyles Jungle strykewyrms Living rock creatures

[spoiler=Epic post]I guess I'm one of the few that really cares and wants rank 1 lol. Ever since I started this game that was my dream goal. I always adored Zezima and how much fame he got. I wanted exactly that. And after I got all 99s (before dung) I thought it might actually be possible since I was just learning how to flip just after I maxed. I caught on with it very quickly. So as I went for 200m cooking with sharks I started making billions so I figured I had a great chance at rank 1 since I could do the super expensive buyables. I slowly made my way to the top page with the cheap buyable 200m xp skills. I think I may have been the most dedicated and one of the all time fastest flippers of all time tbh. I was easily making 40-60m a day when doing 200m firemaking and fletching. I easily had enough money to get 200m prayer and herblore etc. Rank 1 was looking very likely! And I knew Gertjaars wasn't rich enough to get the super expensive skills. So I was almost sure I would get it. But then... dungeoneering decides to come out, which pretty much ruined this goal. Dungeoneering makes me want to punch the wall and cry irl. And it also ruined my motivation alot too for other 200ms. I slowed down a bit, but kept going anyway. I'm almost positive I would have achieved rank 1 if dungeoneering didn't come out when it did. I also didnt expect other top ranks to keep going at the pace they were, Allar and Drumgun for example, since I figured they didn't have the money for 200m prayer and herblore. And I knew that Allar wouldn't go for 200m range like I am right now since he enjoys slayer more. I enjoy training fast skills for the most part. It's not that I want to be hidden underneath the top overall page. In fact, I want it more than anyone. It's just that I just cant train dungeoneering. I hate it so freaking much. And I have no idea how I am going to get 120. Effigies maybe? Lol. Or if I can figure out a way to not die 5 times a dungeon. I do still want rank 1 very badly but just realize at this point it is most likely not going to happen. And I accept it. So instead my goal now is to get 200m xp in all skills. Sure I would still love to be rank 1 overall if I can get the chance to somehow, and get myself to do dungeoneering without wanting to cry about it. I don't even really play this game for fun. I play mainly for ranks and gaining xp. Which can be fun at times still which is good. It does definitely get tireing after awhile training the same skill for weeks and I do burn out, but I force myself to keep going. It's still definitely alot better than playing something like WoW or something intensely combat related, which I strongly dislike. My main aim from the beginning was to find something where I could try to be the best at it. I've come close, but not quite enough. But I've come so far so I will not give up now, and I never will. I will one day get all 200ms, I may not be the first, but I will do it. I never have any plans to quit unless I'm dead first. So let's hope that doesn't happen! I may slow down at times and take breaks but I would announce it if it were to be a massive break. But I never take massive breaks anyway :P I definitely expect Suomi to beat me, and I dont mind too much. He's a great person too as I am great friends with him in game. I wish people would lay off the trolling to him with the donations and other crap. He really is a nice person and cares about people. I am quite like him I would say except I have less motivation than him and can't pull off the hours he does and I can't concentrate perfectly on skills like him for that long without feeling like I want to kill myself. But we do both love skilling with a passion. So I love ya mate. <3 Hopefully I can be 2nd to all 200m skills. But we'll see what happens. Also I love to show off my hiscores and cash to people. I'm just a person who loves fans. The haters I don't like obviously but I try to change their viewpoint about why I do what I do. It makes me feel good about myself that I accomplished something so immense and had the attention to do the grinding required for 200m skills. It's fun getting spammed with trades at the G.E with people wanting to see my massive bank. It's very fun to know that they are in shock at how in the world I got my hands on all that money and wish they could have it. Lol, fun times. Not rich anymore though since there is no need to be, since I am basically done with buyables, after I finish 200m farming by the end of this year. Anyway, not sure why I wrote all this, but with the mention about how people feel about rank 1, I felt I needed to let this out, and how my view of this game is and how I like to play it. You can post your comments about my views positively or negatively. I'm all up for how people feel about this. Enjoy the long read. You might be the best candidate to give the cave crawler method a try since you seem to be the richest of the top 15 and you hate slayer and like fast xp. If you go all the way to 200m melee you will have gained enough effies for 200m slayer and 200m in rc, agil, drungeon, or whatever other skill you dislike the most. Even though you will be getting around 300k/h total xp (not including charms) I can't imagine they are much more fun than dungeon after the 1000th hour... lol. Goodluck in your endeavors. Just curious, but I am assuming you already have farming and summoning supplies for 200m already bought?