Astralinre

He was comparing getting pregnant to a car crash, not having an abortion. Because in order to sacrifice oneself, one has to choose to do so. The foetus cannot choose to do so. In the case of an abortion, the foetus is not sacrificing itself, the mother is sacrificing it. I never said I wasn't concerned for the people who want abortions. However, I'm equally concerned for their unborn children. All I'm saying is that if the parents of the child were more concerned about the child than about themselves, they wouldn't have an abortion. (Granted, there are certain cases, such as when the foetus has a deadly, painful disease, that it might be more loving to abort.) Is money the only measure of a good life? Heh, silly me, I was thinking that growing up with loving parents was also part of a child having a good life. The father of a child doesn't necessarily have an easy time either, mind you. It can still ruin a man's dreams and goals if he has a child that he has to provide for.

If I recall, that math always adds up to a multiple of nine. All multiples of nine have the same symbol; they just change the symbol each time you play so it looks like it's reading your mind.

I'm sure you do.... :roll: . to the poster and anyone else: Do at least "try" to spell correctly. For example, I know I am a horrible speller, but realy, there is a difference between a mispelling and liek omg dis is wht hpned! actually, keeping something like that next to your bed isnt a bad idea. well, unless the robber has a gun, then if he saw you pick up the bat he would probably shoot you. personally, i keep a katana next to my bed, but if a robber came in and pointed a gun at me id probably either freeze or start crying like a little girl. lol yea, id try see if it was fake tho 90% of guns used in robberys in uk are or something stupid like that, but i like the idea of possibly screaming so highly pitched it pops his ear drums with my girly screeches I keep a knife next to my bed; it's a good, sharp, awesome knife too. I don't think I would ever need it though - any would-be theif would have to sneak past my parents' bed room to get up the stairs to mine. I doubt he could get past my trusy golden retriever, my dad, or my mom with her awesome high-tech pistol. (Seriously, my granddad collected knives and guns, and we inhereted some pretty awesome weapons from him.) However, I agree that I'd probally scream like a little girl before I though to grab my knife and fight, assuming he also had a weapon. Indy, I must admit, I also saved about half of those pictures for future use, including the grammar Nazi one. :P Incorrect grammar in any form of writing (especially if I find it in my own writing) drives me insane. :twisted:

Oh, seriously. That's as if someone said "If you don't want to crash, don't get into the car!" That would also logically mean that it should be illegal to treat patients of a car accident. "No, don't help me to live, I got into the car. I should die because I took the risk." As was discussed earlier, I don't think it's fair or fitting to compare a baby to a car crash. The opportunity to bring another life into the world and nuture it as it grows can hardly be compared to something as bad as a car crash. I'm of the oppinion that children are a blessing, not a burden. Even if having a baby can ruin your life, surely it is better to sacrifice your own well being to give someone else a chance for a good life. If people were less concerned about themselves, and more concerned about others, then I don't think abortion would be such an issue. But that's all wishful thinking - we humans are selfish creatures, and that's not going to change.

You know, whenever a conversation like this comes up, I feel the overwhelming urge to go through the posts of everyone who has contributed to the argument and point out all of their spelling errors. :P (I would start with you, Lionheart, simply because of the comment in your signature. ;)) To the TS: I find the story rather unbelievable. Assuming your dad's friend did tell him that, it sounds like nothing more than a very embellished big fish tale. Also, please take enough pride in what you have to say to make it more readable. Thank you.

I agree that people have the right to their own bodies, but I disagree with you that the baby is a part of the woman's body. Sperm and eggs are part of the person's body; they have the same DNA. However, after the zygote forms, it is a new, individual organism. I believe that once a woman becomes pregant, she is harboring a new human being, whom it is her responsibility to protect. It may be dependent on the mother, but it is not the mother's body. It is a new body whom she ought to protect. Even if the baby could ruin the mother's life, who are we (or who is she) to decide that her life is worth more than her baby's?

I wouldn't. Who am I to decide that the lives of those 500 are worth less than the lives of those infected with AIDS? When it comes to human life, I don't think cold numbers, even killing 500 to save millions, can determine the value of people.

I speak Spanish, but I'm hardly fluent. I do know most of the verb tenses and a fair amount of vocabulary, though. In my Spanish class at school, we enjoy making up non-sensical insults en Espanol. For example: !Tu madre es una baloncesta de hamburguesas! Translation: Your mother is a basketball of hamburgers!

That was Jesus. Ever read the bible? God made the world, Jesus was the son of God. Ever read the Bible? Jesus was God. How can he be God and the son of God? If he were both, wouldn't that make him his own father and his own son? Just curious. Christians believe that God is triune. He is three persons - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - in one being. I don't understand it either, as such as arrangement is rather beyond human reason. "The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God." - I think that's from the Westminster Catechism.

If you don't mind me asking, why are we discussing when the Bible was written? Does that have any bearing at all on whether or not it's true? I think the first books (the Pentateuch) were written around 1500 B.C. by Moses, but I'm not positive about that date. Anyway, I don't know why it really pertains to this topic. That reminds me of a saying I've heard among Christians. "All truth is God's truth." I believe that Christianity is true, but I still agree whole-heartedly with you that there is truth all throughout the world. In my opinion, discrediting the truths contained in literature, history, science, philosophy, and other religions has been a stupid mistake by Christians.

The best Magic Schoolbus game, in my opinion, was the geology one. I spent hours upon hours playing that as a kid. :P And banning violent games isn't going to change human nature. Violent games don't make violent people, violent people make violent games.

Just because another body is dependent on you doesn't mean that it's your body. A one-year-old baby is still dependent on its parents for everything, but that doesn't give them the right to kill it if they want.

The two brothers didn't spawn off the entire human race. Nobody ever said that they were the only two children Adam and Eve had. What you wrote only responded to the first paragraph. The second paragraph explained my view of why the universe couldn't be self-existent, and you ignored that. If you disagree with what I said, then I challenge you to disprove my logic, not to simply say "it all sounds really ridiculous to me" and that it "sounds like blabble" to you. Why not act maturely and show the flaw you see in my post instead of insulting me?

No, they were brothers. Cain murdered Abel then fled. You assume I was saying that all men were white before the Tower of Babel (assuming that God changed the skin color then), but I never said that. I simply believe that they were all the same color. They could have been black, they could have been white, they could have been Oriental, or they could have been green. All I said is that I believe God made different skin colors at Babel. Your basically just saying, when it doesn't make sense the only option is to pin it on self existance, maybe theres another answer my friend? And what I was getting on was if you believe in self existance, why rule out the theory that the universe wasn't always here? If you believe that God was, why stick this down to a higher intellegence? Its the need to know we're safe in the world, having a God is just a man-made creation drawn on the sole intention of letting us think we're not alone. (apart from aliens 8) ) I direct you to the paragraph after the one you quoted, which you conveniently ignored. Allow me to quote it for you.

Oh I get it. Then he can just beat people up and take their money :wink: . No no, that way, he'll be buff, so he'll be more likely to attract a girlfriend. Once he has a lady in his life, he'll have a new outlet for all that money he'll be earning. :P I've had a beautiful drain on my finances for over a year now.

Add in my girlfriend and exercising, and that's my list exactly. :P

Let me ask you this - if the Bible was written by a drunkard, then why does it condemn drunkenness? :P 'Cause he was freaking drunk!. Sorry. I don't condone the whole drunkard argument at all, but, seriously, what the hell kind of question is that? That's a very valid point, but I don't know why someone would condemn something he enjoys so much. But then again, someone could be drunk enough to say something that stupid. Anyway, that little comment was hardly the point of my post; the paragraph above it was much more important. :P

As a Christian, I don't think she should force you to go. If anything, that's just going to make you bitter towards Christianity, and it seems to have done so already. She ought to just back off. If she wants you to become a Christian, she ought to pray for you earnestly, not threaten you if you don't come to church. However, I would say that you ought to honor you parents. Either move in with your dad and live by his rules, or stay with your mom and live by her rules. Your choice.

I think that if there were only 2 people to populate billions upon billions of people, there would be some serious inbreeding and some serious f*c*ed up people. I mean how would you explain the differant races? If adam and eve were white, how the hell did blacks, hispanics, asian and any other race come about to be? And i can predict the Christians are going to say "God is so powerful that he created himself", or some other lame answer. With Adam and Eve, inbreeding would not have been that much of a problem. Considering they were 'good' when they were made, it's safe to assume that they had no genetic flaws. The flaws would have come over time due to the corruption of nature caused by sin. So even with all the inbreeding that would have existed early on, it would not have caused physical problems. As for skin color, many people believe that God changed the skin colors at the Tower of Babel, when he also confused the languages of the people. In response to your second paragraph, nothing can be self-created, as that creates a logical inconsistancy. To create itself, something would have to be before it is, which is impossible. However, there is no logical inconsistancy to say something is self-existent. After all, since there is something here now, and nothing can create itself, something must be self-existent. I would say that an eternal, infinite being must be immutable also. After all, if it is eternal, it is outside of time, and change only occurs within time. Also, if it is infinite, it cannot change, as any change in it would be towards finiteness. As you went on to explain in the rest of your post, we can observe the universe changing. Since it is changing, it is in time. Since it is in time, it is not eternal. If it is not eternal, it has a beginning. I'd say that beginning is the infinite-personal, triune God. Let me ask you this - if the Bible was written by a drunkard, then why does it condemn drunkenness? :P

And can get boring between two people. Movies is the best bet. That's where my first date was and it went great. We just walked around the mall talking afterwards and chose whatever we wanted at the food court. Well, of course it gets boring between two people; that's why you take a couple of friends along or double date. :P

I'll second the idea to take her bowling. It's fun, it's relaxed, it allows for plenty of conversation, and it's in a public place to avoid any awkwardness that could result from being alone.

Alright, thanks for clarifying. :)

Thanks, dwarfie, I think I see where you're comming from now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you basically follow the "Golden Rule" that Christians believe in, namely "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," but you follow it for logical reasons, not religious ones. I agree that those work pretty well in practice, but I think it still agrees with my Schaeffer quote that we are left with situational ethics. It's not absolute morality; it still depends on the situation. Or am I completely misunderstanding you?

My girlfriend has that song on her iPod. :P Classic video.

I didn't mention your morals either, I said your values - meaning your standards (a subtle difference, where values can apply much more widely than morals alone). Your values dictate that there is a universal scale of morality, for example. They might also say that spending time learning rather than working earlier in life will pay off in the long term - they aren't just morals, if you know what I mean? Either way, I wasn't talking about my own values, I was talking about the effect that metephysical assumptions have on ethical assumptions.