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Britian wanted the colonies back... Just like Retech wanted the Licht Colonies back, even though they had revolted....

Hmmmm...I don't like America's chances of independance a second time around...especially in Hegemony. It will definately be a proving ground for Dusty's moderating skills in any case...since GB could launch a massive attack on the USA and destroy it before it has got anywhere at all....

Landgrabbing is almost always blamed as a terrible thing....Especially when by landgrabbing, then a 5 year reset, your economy is much larger and you can land grab even more, until all the land has been grabbed and there is a final showdown and the game ends 1 month in. Trade routes and Infrastructure were both incredibly silly systems if land grabbing is included, they generated virtually no money, and land grabbing generates a tonne of money. Trade routes also look confusing and all the stuff that you 'could' do with, never happens because people deploy their navy or army, a war occurs and both sides destroy each other....

Hmmm, Rocco's system seems better if we are gonna have resets every 5/10 days or so. My system seems better if we are gonna gamble. And Retech's system seems better if we want our budgets to stay the same, with landgrabbing as the only real way to make money because infrastructure takes ages and trade routes don't really work. Maybe we can merge the three systems....IEG can be increased through 'investing' in the five chips, rather than conquering or trading...and every so often there is a reset to give us actual money.

Chips seems a lot better than giving everyone a tonne of money every time they pass go... Course, that is another option. Each day Dusty rolls a die for us and advances us round a board, when we pass go we collect our reset.... But that seems a tad too complicated. Personally, it would be a lot easier to say 'I need a cannon....I put 50,000 on Red, what happens?' than going 'Well, when I next get my 100,000 I am gonna buy a cannon.'

Well the plan was to name them infrastructure, raw materials, agriculture, investment and high stakes....But I thought people will do what they normally do and demand that their investments into infrastructure have some sort of secondary effect. Also, that budget mechanic will screw the game over, since countries can only stay the same or get poorer.... What we could do is just make it so that you can gamble once a day, instead of set resets. If you don't gamble then nothing bad happens.

Yet another reason I like the chips system...it prevents people from modernising their country into the space age.

I am thinking of a totally different system...Since the IEG, IAG and GDP all had glaring faults...And experiances from the last game pointed out that, quite simply, a self-replenishing budget is stupid. There are 5 'chips' you can bet on. Blue, Red, Green, Yellow and Black. Blue, has a 95% chance of producing a profit, but the profit will only be 5% of whatever you put into the fund. Red, has a 79% chance of producing a profit. Initially the profit will be 1%, but if you invest for successive periods then it can increase to 20%. Green, has an 88% chance of producing a profit. Initially the profit will be 5%, but if you invest for successive periods then it can increase to 12%. Yellow, has a 70% chance of producing a profit. Inititally the profit will be 15% percent, but investing for successive periods will decrease it to 1%. Black, has a 10% chance of producing a profit, but the profit from it will be 120%. Random Number Generator decides the success rating for every period of time. If you don't invest the money in a clear PM to the moderator, then nothing will happen to it, and it just carries over. If the gamble fails then you lose the money you bet on it with, all of it. Conquering other countries doesn't give you anything straight away...But research that that country would have got, generals that country would have had, become yours instead. Armies are cheap to gather together, but take a year's worth of training to actually be deployed. (Except for Peasents). However an army of 20,000 people will cost alot ot payroll and supply...So that after three years they will have burned through a small fortune, stopping people from having armies at each other's throats the whole time. Also, lets assume that everyone has spies in each other's countries...so no secret armies of 100,000 appearing out of nowhere. Same with ships. Ships are either in port or they are on patrol somewhere. If there are no instructions given then they are in port. Castles and other fortifications can be built and can protect key provinces on the map....but they only protect that province, armies can go around. Sailing a ship past a fort, or an army with artillary, will damage the ship and possible sink it...but it will not stop ships from being able to try to sail past. PS. I like the idea of fields of research, it allows customisation, without too much Archicrap.

Good point again. Can we just appoint generals instead? So we tell them that we want specific targets captured and they(Dusty) comes up with a strategy when writing the report. Bypasses all the rubbish about 'I said my troops did X and you didn't listen'. Generals have traits like 'Defensive' or 'Vetern', so we retain some control over the battle.

Yup....Weapons that had no noticible effect on the winning...they really ruined the game. :rolleyes: But yeah, I agree, research should just be banned altogether. Dusty should just tell us that our brilliant scientists have discovered something.

Can we use a proper map this time, with provinces...and the battles are small scale affairs instead of huge pile ups?

I call Prussia.

Tis fairly obvious what he is doing. France leaves the war, so other people think 'Hmmm, war is pointless' they all accept treaties for slowly increasing amounts of land, and badabim badabiff, the coaltion collapses and he is free to kill of Crete, Italy and Mather while everyone watches, waits ten years for surviours to be mildly challanging then invades Iceland and destroys that. Waits five years, destroys another country...so on and so forth....and the game doesn't get amazingly boring, as it would if he just annexed France or whatever. Its pretty clever.

Guess we will find out what will happen if The Duke of Wellington had gone 'Wheel our forces around and attack Blücher. Napoleon for Emperor!'

Hehe, something like that. I don't see why I should honour a deal to level the playing field when I need all the advantages I can get.

Meh. Face, bothered? The next 20 years in a nutshell: Europe is dominated by the Dusty-Dungeonal-Doom Coalition. Remaining nations pimp themselves out to avoid being killed. Crete stands firmly before eventually being killed by a European taskforce, and unlike Dusty, Archi won't have a shiny knight to save him. Do you really think that I want to give away 5 years of protection to satisfy a deal?

Crete offers a wonderful settlement. Spain and co can go to hell. I think it is both fair and just. In other news, all alliances and such are recinded, as well as all deals. Castheo will remain an open port for as long as Ross wants it open, with a small contingent of Cretians remaining until it is closed. Crete declares disinterest, and begins building a stairway to heaven.

Well played to Doom.

Hehe, something feels wrong with reposting the link as the responce, though it would be a perfect moment for it :grin: Anyway, sorry about your head. I did mark it as lol, so you might have a clue before you opened it =P

Kk, good debate. :thumbsup: Oh, and: [media]http://users.aber.ac.uk/lug9/hege/lol.mp3[/media] For when Lol simply isn't enough. http://users.aber.ac.uk/lug9/hege/lol.mp3

When did they say that? ....Until the late 17th century we believed the Heavens were unreachable....culturally the Na whatevers are at a much earlier stage of development than we are....Is the earlier stage good or bad....No one knows! The point is that you can't go 'Nah, they were never gonna develop space flight on their own, they were never gonna develop, they were gonna stay like that forever....' Yeah...Oil really paid off well for humanity... If we had grown too dependant on it then that is our problem not theirs.....You don't say 'I am addicted to Heroin, therefore it is ok for me to break into your house and steal your life savings to buy more Heroin because I need it.' The obvious advantage to Plotpointium is that it floats, therefore you could use it to raise a whole spaceship into space, instead of using alot of oil/other now rare resources. Or you could build floating appartments, or you could building floating farms, or solar collectors...or all of this wonderful technology which would make life easier on Earth.....NONE OF THAT IS VITAL. Hell, if it is selling for thousands of dollars per kilogram...enough to finance a base, with alien clones and a top team of researchers and a hell of alot of troops...then it won't be used for floating apartments for the underprivalaged or whatever, it won't be used to produce cheap food or energy....it will be used so that rich people can pretend they can fly, so upper middle class people can live in the sky and spit down out common man, it will be used to create special sun kissed tomatos that are worth a hundred times a regular tomato and sold to idiots....Solar power will be ultra expensive because of the costs of unobtainium....there is no profit to be made in building free energy stations....if that was their goal then they would have turned up with a small freighter and a shovel...think about it. Right....So say it isn't water, say it is intelligence....They have mastered some way of harvesting intelligence...We have already agreed to a minor transaction, people who want to move on, the soon to die...those kinds of people....but the aliens have said that its simple not enough, they need higher concentrations of intelligence because all of this gathering here and there....well its expensive and if there was one place that all of the intelligent people could go, well that would be awesome....Thusly, in the middle of the nobel prizes they turn up, suck everyones brains out and carry on. What price can we put on our intelligence? Do we also have this intelligence harvesting device, we harvest the misfortunate and sell intelligence supplements to the well off? Is it worth giving up all the chances we have to use our intelligence to develop new technologies, in exchange for simply being given those technologies? But the war wouldn't kill 90% of the people on the planet....We have the technology to clone them...we have the technology to create race specific biobombs....We could kill them all off, without risking a single human life....The down side would be what, exactly? We kill off a bunch of 'savages' who 'arn't really alive'? Who cares...we slaughter thousands of pigs, cows and other livestock every day. Or why not send more ships? This is the most precious resource ever...but we can only send one ship, and we can only send just enough troops for a final showdown in which we would be successful unless one of our own joined them and was on their side in a fight between us and ALL of the tribes on the continent? It has little, if anything to do with That'llbehandium. We were trying to give them something they didn't want, which we thought would benefit them, out of out conscience need to make all life like our own, and getting something we want in return.... That seems like a very one sided deal... "Hello, I am Bob, this is a slave collar, I am your new master and I am going to be teaching you how to carry rocks from our mine because that is the universal imperative for my people, to mine every rock in the universe, why? Because we must, it is in our genes. Now, if you resist then, out of the goodness of our hearts, we will have to shock you, because whatever you will be doing will be bad. I can assure you that this will benefit you...Hell, in five or six generations, even your children will agree with us, isn't that marvalous? We are going to be improving your whole race AND getting labour to help us mine rocks forever! Its a win-win....Ah, no talking back, that is bad."

Reminds me of a song. [hide]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9u5zqKvC7E[/hide] You can call life on this planet "life"? Half of us push the paper around a desk to make sure the other half can not work and watch the terrible TV and Movies. Nothing is 'That Vital'...Aside from Water, Air and Food...and we clearly have all of those things. Reminds me of the song again... We don't trust people from the next county....We have been at war more often than not with the people in the next country over the last 200 years.... I seriously doubt an alien race setting up a tube into space would go down terribly well for any of the normal people in the world...especially when our opinion of anything remotely different is that it "Isn't really life." Clear not, if it was vital we would have done what we did to the Native Americans...shot them and then educated the surviours into being civilised...not the otherway round. .... OBVIOUSLY WE WERE TRYING TO HELP THEM! The fact that they didn't want our help seems a total irrelevance!

So it is a matter of convienance and nothing else.... Yeah, your argument was majorly improved with that little revelation.

Because our track record with the environment is wonderful.... Clearly Unobtainium is powering all the floaty rocks and the tree of whatever it was, so its pretty important to them too. Its hardly vital to our continued survival when they could afford to spend years doing diplomacy...and since Pandora is the ONLY place in the Universe with this substance, it is gonna be relatively new....So it is probably 'vital' like Plutonium is 'Vital'. To put it another way....If an alien race came to Earth and started draining away the water in order to make their mines easier to drill, in exchange for giving us advanced shoveling techniques, the ability to cure miner's lung and the ability to read their language....don't you think we would get rather mift at them when they drained the med and moved on to the Atlantic? But hey, they only wanted a siphoning contract!

Sigh.... It would be like France declaring that your house belonged to them, spending thousands in an effort to brain wash you into believing that your house belonged to them, then humanly blowing up your chimmney to convince you your house belonged to them....and if you didn't submit then they kill the rest of your family.