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Me: Would a string exert a force on a car if you pulled it? You: No, the string would exert absolutely no force at all on the car. But what you could do it put an engine in the car and then it would move. Me: Hmmm, that doesn't sound right, and I didn't really want to move the car...Doesn't a suspension bridge work a series of steel cables exerting a force? You: No, string is not the same as steel cabling is made of steel which means it can exert a force, but string cannot because it is string. Me: Doesn't that seem unneccessarily arbitrary? I thought you said that this game was not going to be arbitrary? You: Oh, I see, you have resorted to personal attacks because your argument is so weak that it cannot withstand any scrutiny at all. Also, if we actually look at the two first posts: We can see that you did not answer the question at all. 'Can I create a magnetic field outside the ship without killing everyone inside the ship?' 'No, but lead blocks radiation.' You are acting like the GM equivilant of the Microsoft Office Paperclip... 'Can I fix it so that when I press the Insert key it doesn't turn on overwrite?' 'If you press the Insert key you can turn overwrite on/off.' I am perfectly happy to admit that there are holes in the underlying theory...I pretty much said as much in the very first post in relation to this idea that this is a new field for me, so this would be a learning experience. Instead of providing a learning experience you didn't provide any links, you didn't work to explain any of the concepts...you said 'See Newton's Law' and when I asked which law you ignored it... As stated above you ignored the questions that were asked and tried to force your own solution to a problem you imagined I was trying to solve. What I was expecting was that I could use a set of magnets to collect very small amounts of interstellar hydrogen and helium, which would then coalesce around the ship, held in place (subject to some loses) by the magnetic field (and not further ionised by the electric field of an electromagnet, which would generate especially large amounts of heat). Thusly a thin (later developed in thickness) envelope of gas surrounds the ship, which would produce a semi-obsuring mist to protect against laser strikes, and deflecting small meteors and, maybe, some slow moving projectiles, through the cumulative effect of semi-organised gases flowing around an magnetic field. Once a small test craft, run by a computer, had subsequently been built it would be a matter of finding out if it was possible to use the 'shield' without subjecting the crew to extreme heat as the solar wind caused a gradual ionisation of the 'shield'. However you decided I was trying to fashion a planet sized magnetic field out of 5 store bought magnets through some elaborate method where by you say 'Yes, Magnets have an effect' and I go 'AH HA! NOW I BUY FIVE MAGNETS FROM THE STORE AND USE THEM AS A MAGNETOSPHERE' and you, by some unexplained means, are forced to say 'Oh woe is me, Archi's argument is irrefutable, it is true that I said that Magnets have an effect, and now he is wrecking my game using only five store brought magnets.' As a result the entire 'discussion' got bogged down in a pointless argument relating to the magnetosphere, whereas if you had actually answered the questions asked and acted like a GM it would have been very straightforwards: Player: 'Can I create a magnetic field outside the ship without killing everyone inside the ship?' GM: 'Well, if the magnetic field was far enough away from the crew then the Inverse Square Law would mean that you could do it' or 'Well, the magnetic field could be manipulated to provide areas of living space within the ship' or 'I am afraid I can't really see how you would produce a powerful enough magnetic field outside the ship without killing everyone inside the ship, therefore the magnetic field would be limited to such and such an amount.' Player: 'Hmmm, ok. So if we say that the magnetic field is such and such at the hull level, and it follows the Inverse Square Law, then it would exert such and such a force on the solar wind. Correct?' GM: 'Yes, that seems to be correct' or 'No, thats not correct, it would be such and such, and here is why' or 'Yes, that seem to be correct, but have you considered that the Solar Wind is made up of Hydrogen, Helium and other, heavier elements, moving at different speeds, and example of which would be such and such?' Player: 'Hmmm, thats a good point...' or 'Ok, I am only really looking to trap helium and hydrogen, so I will ignore the other elements for the time being. So if they are moving at such and such a speed, generally, then they should have a force of such and such. As such the field would have such and such effect on the particles. Correct?' GM: 'That seems reasonable' or 'Ah, but you have forgotten such and such.' Player: 'Oh right' or 'Ok, so the field needs to be more powerful/the field is powerful enough/the field is too powerful.'

Year 2020: Someone discovers some fundermental concept Year 2030: A company recognises the genius Year 2035: The company begins selling the product Onwards: People buy/replicate the product. The problem is that the Matharian timeline doesn't have any progress at all...except the Magic Hall Thrusters. (Which isn't even psudeoscience, it is just really really really bad science) Technological progress even shrinks, with lasers becoming less powerful and aerodynamics being almost throughly ignored.

Yay :shades:

Sigh, I agree Earth, but Mather won't accept anything that isn't scientifically proved...unless it helps his argument in which case it becomes magically true. What a load of crap. If you are trying to confine something you know, roughly, where it is, and usually it is hurtling directly towards the magnet at speeds far in excess of the speed that the solar wind travels... Near Speed of Light (299,792 km/s) verses Solar Wind (145,000 km/s) about half that speed. As such 'knowing where it is' provides no help what so ever. Sigh. And the Earth? Pretty impressive if the Earth is surrounded by an Electric Field that no one has thus far detected. Based on what science...exactly? That Positively Charged Particles are only affected by Positively charged Electromagnetic Fields, except when the Field is generated by a planet, in which case it magically affects it anyway? I really don't get where your scientific validation is coming from other than 'ELECTROMAGNETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' I mean it has even been shown, through numerous experiments, that magnets alone can alter the paths of charged particles: And your view on that is what? 'I, the great Mather, find it impossible that simple magnets could effect anything, in the face of any and all evidence provided. All magnets must be electrically powered or they have no effect at all.' I am quite impressed that you have the cheek to call my game unscientific...this game has lurched from psudoscience to psudoscience and hasn't even paid lip service to basic scientific concepts.

I am entirely lost as to that comment. The Magnetosphere works by repelling charged particles...Not by attracting them...we would be screwed if the magnetosphere attracted charged particles. It is true that the Magnetosphere accumulates SOME of the particles that hits it, and that those particles eventually find their way to the North or South Magnetic Pole, but the actual amount is negligable. It is also irrelevant, since the magnetic field, as described, is uniformly positive or negative. (Or, to be more precise, only one side of the magnetic field comes into contact with the solar wind.) Also Magnetic Confinement in Fusion Reactors rely on you be wrong...As to the various particle accelerators... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_confinement_fusion But yeah, you are right that if you stuck 20 magnets on something, with no order, then yeah, they have no effect...or an unpredictable effect, they would still have an effect. However, since they were aligned in the diagram that argument doesn't apply...It would be a simple matter to extend the line of magnets into a sphere, or whatever shape we decide for the new ship. I do agree, as stated before, that it would not deflect fast moving charged particles but it would deflect slow moving charged particles... Edit: What Retech Said.

Apart from not achieving the primary aim of creating a magnetic field I can't see anything wrong with bolting lumps of lead on to the side of the ship...oh wait... Why do you need a monopolar field? (Also, why Newton's Laws of Motion? Magnets build into the hull would have their force interactions tempered by the tangible linkages. Interactions with the Solar Wind would produce movement...But, as ever, this is proof of concept and not 'What we are going to do next', there still remains many things to work out...But it is better to work out things individually, as opposed to try to take account of all the variables simultanously.) Surely a dipole field, with one side open to space and the other side counteracted by a series of dipole magnets, would provide a reasonable field? Consider the Inverse Square Law here. If the magnets were placed far enough apart the magnetic field strength that needs to be counteracted would be much decreased. A small amount of positional trickery later: http://www.falstad.com/emstatic/index.html (For replication, though the simulator is rather limited, which is a pain...it is still the only decent simulator I could find) (The + and - signs can be reversed (I was planning for it to work the other way so =P)) But yeah, one side has a stronger, more uniform, field than the other using only simple bar magnets. More powerful magnets could be kept seperated by non-magnetic materials...such as: Element - Magnetic Suspetibility (all to 10^-6 per cubic centimeter per mole) Silicon - Negative 3.12 Strontium Chromate- Negative 5.1 Beryllium- Negative 9 Arsnic- Negative 5.6 Boron- Negative 6.7 Copper- Negative 5.46 Graphite- Negative 6 Copper Sulfide- Negative 2 Helium- Negative 2.02 Molybendium Trioxide- Positive 3 Positive denotes Paramagnetic, Negative denotes Diamagnetic. http://www-d0.fnal.gov/hardware/cal/lvps_info/engineering/elementmagn.pdf Ultimately depends on the situation requred, and, as a player, I would much prefer to solve a puzzle and have 'a material' than have the specific material and several sheets of paper detailing relatively strengths. So... supposing we lined the hull with magnets deployed in this fashion, and the magnets were sufficently powerful, could we deflect the solar wind around the hull? More apt question, can we deflect part of the solar wind with very low inertia, with fast moving solar wind being almost unaffected(Given that the field would probably only extend a few meters (inline with the inverse square law) before reaching trivial levels)?

Ok...Theory question, since I can't get the formula to actually work (and don't have a few hours to get my head round it): If... Assume the chain of magnets on the left form a chain larger than the nominal reach of the magnet on the right. Assume the magnet on the right has a MUCH higher magnetic moment. Thusly, if the magnet on the right is extremely powerful, could the magnets on the left 'protect' anything to the left? (This assumes that the magnets on the left are powerful enough not to be overcome and have their magnetization altered. If neccessary a series of decreasingly powerful magnets are used.) The overall hope is to place a series of extremely high power magnets in the outer hull, (or mounted just outside the outer hull) followed by a series of less high power magnets inside that, creating a powerful magnetic field outside the ship, without creating a similar powerful magnetic field inside the ship and ripping the water out of everyone's face/killing the CIU. Emphasis should be put on the fact that I don't want a faraday cage, since it is of very limited effectiveness against static magnetism.

Now that is a good Gif. Quite calming.

Interesting... Similarly I think we need to seriously consider developing some magnetic fields...

I can see your point Retech...But we would need to build a hotel, and the Gideons would probably want to go home once they had delieved their Bibles.

The session will start in 10 minutes. /join #Inn /join #Wizards_Path /join #Inquistors_Path (Ico and Stork)

'Some things just stick' I can't imagine the HIGHLY AERODYNAMIC design 'just sticking'. It would be like seeing the first airplane and saying 'In 115 years it will look exactly the same...Oh, but it will have a Jet Engine.' Added to that...Who are they intimidating? Global era of peace and all that? Surely efficency is considerably more important than 'It will look rather scary as it is blown out of the sky by that 2 meter wide fighter drone.' The Flying Wing probably has a better chance of acceptance, given its sleeker profile... After all, in space you want to present minimal aspect at all times...But even that doesn't really make sense as 'sticking' over a long period of time. I mean, lets face it, if the aircraft can leave orbit then it can fly without aerodynamics even within an atomsphere. ...We really need to build a better aircraft...Probably something based on the more typical Sci-Fi bent...Oooooo I know, we can build the Normandy! Alternatively a Yehat Terminator. We also need to develop shield technology. Mather, give me some Cryptograms please, preferably with Electronic puzzles as well...Gotta plenty work afoot.

Not 20 cubic meters, 20 meters cubed. 20, by 20, by 20. You could just tie it to the roof or something....Don't look at me, I am an engineer, not a bombing expert. However, as an Engineer: [hide] So... = ? [/hide] It would seem to me, given [hide] [/hide] That building an Ion Thruster powered Fighter...using the same dyanmics as a Jet Fighter...is silly. Most significantly a Jet Engine is several times larger than an Ion Thruster. Added to that the Aerodynamics on Mars would be significantly different, given the much lower air density and the almost exclusivity of CO2. But anyway...Chuck the magetnet out of the bombing bay if you like.

It obvious isn't it? She reads newspapers. Downloading will cause terrorists to win, will turn your children into violent animals and will get you arrested and sent Station X-Ray. For slightly older people the internet brings death.

*rolls eyes* The real reason I wanted cats is because I have a cat which was being all lovely when I was posting...Later turned out she hadn't been fed so wanted me to feed her...But anyway. Cats and other animals are useful for populating the game with NPCs which become interesting.

Probably best not to annoy your mum then... Get some money, buy a new computer, download stuff?

Medical, I want you to produce some sort of Martian Cat Genome, gonna clone us some Kitties.

That...or ask someone else to download it, put it on a memory stick, and then put it in your machine...

To keep the population from revolt when we quietly announce that the air might be 75% radioactive. To distract them from the fact that everyone has squeeky voices. And to cushion their landing when the support craft hit a bump and the super city crashes headlong into a heap of scrap metal, cats and limbs. Using the bombing bay to drop 20 meter wide magnets? A) We have 20 meter wide (cubic so the minimum would be 20 meters) bombs? B) Why do we have 20 meter wide bombs? C) If we saw the Chinese dropping 20 meter wide 1T magnets, out of their bomb bay doors, we would assume they were laying mines. If they were just tossing them out the back then they are probably dumping cargo. I agree with ALG, it should be our major priority, but I figure NATO will get mad at us so until we have built our secret death camps we ca...err...I meant colony.... :-D That was a joke....Honest1... we can't return to Earth in the ship...And I have a sneaking suspition that the Fighters are not powerful enough for Intrastellar flight. 1 Statement may or may not be a joke. :grin:

Ok, been thinking, got a mission for you Lei. Its not overly complex. We basically need someone to run a series of experimental flights, using high power electro-magnets (preferably on some string or something so they don't rip the water out of your face) to try to avoid the Solar Wind (Particles give off by the Sun that will fry the water out of your face), which is currently raining down on Mars. So...Get one of our fighter craft, fabricate a 1T electro-magnet (SWITCHED OFF), about 20 meters cubed, then load it onto the ship. You then fly into orbit, throw the electro-magnet out of the back of the craft (in such a way as it remains in orbit) then we track it, then, finally, when it is optimally positioned, we activate it and see if any appreciable drop in the solar wind from our test site. The test site will be in the southern hemisphere on the opposite side of the planet...for safety. We also need someone to fly back to Earth and collect some cats...but that is a less pressing concern.

Building any colony is gonna take over a month of build time, so I am not overly concerned there...This is proof of concept more than the next stage in the plan. Also now that I have some solid numbers to work with we can scale it down. Ok then, very simple plan which also processes the atomsphere. We get 25 Plasma Drills, in square formation. Assuming they are half a meter wide (nominally) that is 2.5 meters. If they are 1 meter wide then it is 5 meters. We then stick a 5 meter box on top of that. One one side there is an intake fan, and on the top there is a generator. Inside the box there is a laser/series of lasers. Air(mostly CO2) is then sucked in. The laser processes the air into mostly Oxygen (and some Carbon) http://www.brighton.ac.uk/research/environment/casestudy3.php http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO_yAyqCHFg&feature=player_embedded All of which comes to less than 10,000 Kilograms. (Yes?) 25*90 =2,250 1021 kg 384 kg (m) So the realistic weight of the thing is gonna be marginal...Lets say that the rest of the weight is cargo bays? We then add 4 Support craft on a suspention frame, 2 on each side (At 7,000 kg of materials each). This generates a nominal amount of lift of 120,000 Kilograms (Large redundant safety...also for carrying cargo) So...28,000-30,000 kilograms of material. The thing then flies along the surface of Mars scaring the surface of Mars and producing materials for processing. We go mining, collect enough resources to build one of those. Then it flies out (probably piloted by us) collects some ore. Comes back, goes through the Fabricator slowly, we build another flying miner, ect, ect, ect. Meanwhile we begin building our CO2 destroying Lasers, and begin storing up a supply of Oxygen. At the same time we create a Bosch cell, kept at the constantly high temperature of 730 Degrees C, and with an Iron Catalyst. We produce Hydrogen and feed it into the Cell. At the same time we filter the Carbon Dioxide in the air, and add that to the cell. Thus we produce Carbon and Water. We then use the supply of Oxygen, combined with a certain amount of CO2, Carbon, Nitrogen and Water, to grow a number of plants. Medical will need to work on Martian Variants of traditional Earth Plants (Unless they have already been provided). Finally we need to produce a buffer gas (Like Nitrogen on Earth). For this Argon will be used, since Mars is Nitrogen poor and (relatively speaking) Argon rich. However neither gas is abundant, so we will be using K39 (Regular Potassium) under bombardment of Neutrons, thus producing Ar39 and Ar40. Ar39 is unstable, and in the concentrations discussed would be dangerous, thusly only Ar40 will be deployed. Alternatively we set the fabricator to Nitrogen and just pump that out. If neither option is acceptable we have a final alternative. We use Fusion to generate Helium from readily available Hydrogen. The downside to this is that it will increase the pitch of people's voice...As well as increasing the speed of sound by a factor of 3 inside the colony. One of the benefits of this is, however, that we can fly at 2,174 miles per hour before having to deal with the effects of flying faster than sound. Then, once we have our manufactory and fleet of support miners built, we build the ArchiTech Colony Miner and we begin bringing colonists in. Having fufilled the Carbon, Oxygen, Water, Food(Through plants) and Material needs the only real, remaining, requirement is to produce Nitrogen/Argon/Helium in sufficent quantities to prevent the humans from dying.

Righto. [hide] Right then, the first step is the Coandă Effect support craft. The craft will be based, largely on the Avrocar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avrocar#Specifications_.28VZ-9-AV.29 However the three Contiental J69-T-9 Jets have been replaced with the same engine as featured in the F-88. (Which are taken to be a varient on the Pratt and Whitney F135 for power specifications) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_J69-T- 9#Specifications_.28Marbor.C3.A9_IIC.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_F135#Specifications_.28F135- PW-100.29 Similarly the air supply will be the same as the F-88 (works in space), given the thinner atomsphere present on Mars. The gravity of Mars is 0.376 g. This should increase the weight of the craft by 234% (From 3,000 lb to 7029 lb, or 2642.9 lb (Mars)). It should similarly increase the amount of avalible thrust from 8.7 kN to 573 kN. This should have an overall effect to increase the MAX support weight (after deductions for the weight of the craft) to approximately 128,816 lb. A saftey figure of 80,000 lb (36,287 Kilograms) will be used to provide some degree of redundancy. Next we will define the weight of the Plasma Drill as 90 lbs, based on the weight of a Jackhammer. http://www.asbweb.org/conferences/2011/pdf/377.pdf We will then make the assumption that a Plasma Drill covers 30 Centimeters. and has a conversation rate of 2 kilograms per second. We shall make further assertion that each drill will be mounted on a servo, covering 1 meter each, and we shall assume that this has a weight of 30 lbs. We shall take Iron Oxide as our baseline figure for converting rock: It has a density of 5.242 grams per cubic centimeter, and thus the plasma drill should process about 0.3815 Cubic Meters per second. Calcium Carbonate has a desity of 2.711 grams per cubic centimeter, and thus the plasma drill should process about 0.7377 Cubic Meters per second. Uranium has a desity of 19.1 grams per cubic centimeter, and thus the plasma drill should process about 0.1047 cubic meters per second. Thusly, we shall assume that the rate of decent must be less than 0.1 meters per second. In addition to this each of the arms will be mounted on 30 degree anglar mount. The angle's midpoint shall be 120 degrees, allow for work between 135 and 105 degree. Or 45 from the horizontal axis. We shall state that radius of the structure is 50 meters. As such each arm should be approximately 70 meters long, as they are curved. Thus, assuming the angular mount is fully engaged, the arms should sit at 35.35 meters lower than the mount. (Given that the curved length is not relevant in this calculation) we shall further state that the arms are mostly hollow. They have a height and width of equal dimention, and this is 5 meters. The walls of the arms are 0.5 meters in width and height. Thusly the amount of material consists of 70 cubic meters, per arm. Assuming this, we shall [/b]state that the arms are made from Maraging Steel [/b]. This has a yield tensile strength of 100,000 to 350,000 PSI. We shall assume 200,000 PSI for the purposes of safety. The actual tensile strength is between 230,000 and 360,000 PSI. This equates to 1,379,000,308 Pascals, or 1,379 MPa. Effectively capable of supporting 14,0570,877 Kilograms. The density of this Metal is 8.1 grams per cubic centimeter. As such each arm (Excluding the plasma drills, servos and electronics) weighs: 405,000,000 grams, or 405,000 Kilograms(Earth). This is 152,280 Kilograms(Mars). To cover 70 meters there needs to be 70 servos and 70 Plasma Drills. Each of these combined weighs 120 lb or 54.54 Kilograms(Earth). 20.5 Kilograms(Mars). Thus their combined weight is 1,435 Kilograms. (Mars) We shall make assumption that 40 Kilograms is sufficent for the power cabling and such, per arm. Thus each arm weighs 153,755 Kilograms(Mars). There are 16 arms, and thus the combined weight is 2,460,080 Kilograms(Mars) (6,542,766 Kilogram(Earth)) The central station has a diameter of 40 Meters. These arms are connected, as previously mentioned, to the Angular Mount. The Mount, and supports, each have to be capable of lifting, and supporting, 153,755 Kilograms, even when at rest. The most obvious solution is using the arms to support each other. However, this will be done in a somewhat complicated way. Arm 1 will be connected to Arm 2 and Arm 15. Arm 2 to Arm 1 and Arm 3, and so on. To achieve this 16 spars, with a large wheel, will be hung inside the station, equidistant from the two input points.(See Diagram) Then, each arm will have a thickness of 30 centimeters suspention cable (Of Maraging Steel), connected to the end. This provides 19,503,000 Newtons, or 1,988,073.2 Kilograms of support. The suspension cable is 97 meters in length, when fully extended. (As, at the shorter distance, the cable is supported elsewhere.) It weighs 2,222,408.6 Grams(Earth), thus 5,910.7 Kilograms(Mars). This cabling will then be connected to a large, enclosed, wheel, inside the wall of the Station, 10 meters above the angular mount pivot. Inside the station, the cable is bonded, and then split into three seperate cables. Two of 5 centimeter thickness, and one of 20 centimeter thickness. A Scissor Jack is suspended by the two thinner cables. The thicker cable is bonded to one side of the jack. On the other side of the jack another 20 centimeter thick cable runs out, and has the two thinner cables recombine with it. The combined cable runs around assigned spar wheel, and then all connects to jack as described above, in reverse. (Ie as three seperate cables) The Screw measures 10 meters in length, with two electric motors mounted to turn the screw. The frame's four sides are 5.7 meters in length, allowing for 4 meters worth of expansion/contraction, per side, for 8 meters total, or 16 when both screws are in use. This, however, is more than should be regularly needed. Assuming the two jacks are set at 4, and the two arms are set at 120 degrees from vertical, then, contracting one jack, while expanding the other, should raise one, while lowering the other. Similarly contracting both simultanously should raise both, and expanding both should lower both. The cable for 1 arm is, as stated above, 97 meters long. Of which 77 meters will be outside of the station when the arm is fully lowered and 73 when fully raised (within normal parameters). The other 20 meters is internal, and includes half the length of the inter-screw cable. The jacks consist of: (All weights in Martian) 1 Screw-10 Meters tall, 1 Meter Radius. Weight of 95,719 Kilograms. 4 Frame peices- 5.7 meters tall, 2 meters wide, 0.5 meters deep. Weight of 17,360 Kilograms each (69,440 total) Total: 165,159 Kilograms There are 2 Jacks, so the interal weight is 330,318. In addition to the weight of the two arms and the cabling this brings the total, thus far, to 649,649.4 Kilograms, per pair and 5,197,195.2 for everything. The station also contains a life supported zone for up to seven people to live reasonably comfortably. This is conservatively estimated at 100,000 Kilograms. ---- Finally, there exists 12 support beams of 20 meters, by 5 meters by 5 meters, weighing: 1,522,800 kilograms(m) each. 18,273,600 Total. They are connected to a spiral of length 439 meters, and height 28 meters. The pillar is 35 Meters wide, and the number of turns is 4. The spacing between the turns is 2 meters and the spiral has diameter of 5 meters. This represents the largest involvement of raw materials: 105,051,445,714,285,614,216 Kilograms. Given these last two VAST numbers, an alternate plan is therefore proposed. ---- Using the support craft at the base of the station to create a Coandă Effect field, the entire structure could be hover capable. The main issue with this plan is the fuel and air requirements...however, if 112 meters of material are being excavated per second, then it is reasonable to assume that the fuel costs could be offset. The Miner, weighs in at 5,297,195.2 Kilograms. Each Support Craft generates 36,287 Kilograms of lift. Ergo 146 support craft would be required. The Support craft is approximately 10 meters wide (adjusted for seating 3 much more powerful powerplants), thus requiring an area of 1,460 meters to be operational. However. If the craft is now self supporting it does not need the complex jack system, it can be simply supported by 5 Support craft. Four of these can be positioned at the end of each of the arms, in cloverleaf pattern (That is, one central one, and then one forward, and one to either side). Taking up only 30 meters of space. It is important to note that the total number of Support Craft required is 69, (for the arms alone) The number of support craft that can be deployed from the arms is 64. thus only 5 more need to be placed. However, this does not provide much safety margin, nor does it provide for the life supported area. Which would require another 3 to be placed. Thus 8 are required. The amount of space under the station is 1,256 square meters, which allows for up to 120 such generators to be placed. As such a final redesign is in order: Each arm will be supported by 6 Support craft. 1 at the tip, with another beyond the end of the arm, another 2 next to that, and two more behind them. These, alone, should provide sufficent support for the while Miner. However, an additional 30 are placed under the main station. This is to allow for 126, total support craft, with a combined thrust of 4,572,162 Kilograms. As such, in addition to the 2,460,080 Kilograms taken up by the arms and Plasma Drills, up to 1,000,000 Kilograms can, thus, be used for a colony settlement(though 40 meters may want to be revised upwards =P), leaving over 1,000,000 Spare Spare Kilograms of Thrust, in case of damage. [/hide] Long story short...We are building floating cities, instead of Reaper Miners. Slightly longer story: After going through the general plan I found it was MOSTLY workable, but there was a problem with the actual amount of material required to build the spiral thing that was gonna hold it up (WAY too much). Anyway, I revised the plan to get rid of that, and alot of other stuff became unneccessary too. So basically... There are 16 arms, with 70 Plasma Drills on each. I have kinda assumed that it could process 2 Kilograms of Material (Roughly 0.7 Cubic Meters of Iron, for reference) per second. There are over 120 Coandă Effect Support Crafts (About 10 meters each...check the opening for details) keeping the whole thing airborne. And then there is a vast open space in the middle of all that (and one million Kilograms of spare thrust (AFTER safety considerations) that could be used for a city/of sorts. Alternatively some sort of giant floating fortress. At any rate. The thing can land without too much hassle (It only flies a few feet off the ground so forward momentum is the major worry for a crash). So yeah...Please let me know how long it will take to build our first colony. (I envisage it more or less flying around the surface of Mars building permenant colonies)

Looks like you went outside and asked the nearest guy with a jackhammer ro strike a pose. Anywho. Density of Martian Rock? I will then work on the monster project.

Please post Jackhammer for comparison (Not trolling, Jackhammers come in a varity of sizes, from man operated to truck mounted monstronsity).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cdEIsXFJ4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU1RZIuBm74&feature=related "What is this? A Plasma Drill for Ants!" Clearly you would have less plasma drills on the smaller version... The operative word is 'SCALE'