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Motorcycles cause more accidents than they prevent. :thumbup:

Wiki: Guide: We can safely assume that Zombies do not have the ability to summon superhuman strength. Also 'Smashing a Door' requires quite a large amount of dexterity... I mean, if you imagine a human being's approach to knocking down a door it would either be a shoulder barge or a kick (Nominally at the lock, which requires intelligence and so is discounted) In the first case a Zombie would be required to 'charge' the door. Assuming 70 (32 Kilograms) pound zombie, with the 1.7 feet per second max charge, the zombie would Shoulder Barge at 0.52 Meters per second. So the amount of force the Zombie would be able to bring to bear by a shoulder barge would be 16-17 Newtons(Or whichever unit it is, using the same one throughout so it isn't overly important)...which is pathetic. A human weighing 70 pounds can charge at 7.7 feet per second, and so can bring 73 Newtons against the door, and still won't instantly open it. (The Average door, apparently, requires around 100 Newtons to be forced open, which decreases as the hinges, lock and door are damaged by successive hits. True that a Zombie has an incredible degree of stamina, and could hammer away for a long period of time, but 16-17 Kilograms of force isn't enough to throw the Zombie back (a Human ends up getting over double their weight back), so has no reason (remembering they don't have intellect) to throw themselves at the door again...they just press up against it...a far weaker method of trying to open a door. The alternative, kicking the door is far beyond a Zombie's capability, as I am sure you agree. Thus, if a Zombie were to try to smash a door down, it would take a long time...if it were at all possible to start with. During which time the door could be butressed. Firstly a perimeter would be set up. Zombies would thus be contained, if they broke through said perimeter -aka killing the trained soliders/whatever- then the Generals, Politians and what not would quite easily conclude that the humans inside the city stood no chance. Though a Zombie has no reason to venture out of the city...Its food is there, the noise is there...The Wilds have no allure, since they aren't intelligent. Thus a town would need to have been denuded of humans before the Zombies would move on, en mass. You might get the odd pack venturing out...but they can be shot fairly easily by trained soliders and what not. Ergo, by the time it was decided to bomb a town -When Zombies began leaving the site- the majority of people would be dead, or assumed dead (and depending on the people involved, considered to be Future Zombies so acceptable casualities). Alternatively the people in charge just decide to bomb the town earlier due to the unknown nature of the condition(Assuming they haven't read the book or know about Zombies from other sources), thus everyone inside was either a Zombie or Doomed. Thus, bombing the town into oblivon would eliminate most of the Zombie Hoard, allowing armed forces to approach and mop up any stragglers. (My personal approach would be to bomb the sites where Zombies were congregated, using a helicopter with thermal imaging...True I might get some Civilians...but who would ever know...besides, they are dead if if I don't bomb them anyway.)

My views on genocide are neither here nor there :thumbsup: Ultimately though, driving increases you risk of killing people by a rather large margin, over walking alone. Which was my point =P

Ok, we agree, most people are idiots :grin:. The only thing I really want to do is understand how you go from 1 zombie to several thousand, spread across the globe, when all evidence points to them not doing that. One Zombie could, with sufficently inept handling and a large amount of luck, become two or three hundred Zombies. I will wholeheartedly admit that. I further admit with continual inept handling and even more luck, those two or three hundred Zombies could blossom into tens of thousands. However, for those two or three hundred Zombies to be brought into existance two or three hundred Humans need to have died. I am willing to say that 20-30 of them could have died in seclusion, with their deaths yielding no valuable information to Humanity, while increasing the Zombie Hoard's numbers. But Zombie fights in streets would attract attention of people surrounding them, who would report that 'Chainsawing' them was useless, and yes, there may be people who stupidly believe they are immune...and others who believe that becoming a Zombie would be a good idea...But those numbers would be proportionally small, and would soon run dry. Maces and other weapons, wielded by a person who knew that you had to smash their head apart, may become Zombies themselves...this is true. They would, however, hopefully, kill at least one Zombie in the process...and once people became aware that a Zombie's bite was 100% lethal, they would move onto longer reach weapons (Or guns). People may swarm to hospitals...yes. (In my opinion people would only swarm to hospitals if TV, Radio and Telephone were down, given that Zombies were roaming the streets...) But Zombies can't open doors, and Hospitals (at least in this country) have enough lockable doors to confound a Zombie's progress for, at least, a few minutes (Likely longer given their inability to use tools, or attempt to kick doors down...they would just press up against it, which doors can easily withstand). Security, obviously, could break down when people got bitten by Zombies, died and became Zombies...But the Zombies wouldn't open the doors, so dozens of Zombies would remain contained, not biting anyone. However, surviours would learn from these mistakes. The dead would be discarded, or, at the very least, sealed away from others. Ok, people would, in all likelihood, start killing each other 'Did you get bitten! OMG YOUR A ZOMBIE!!!!' and other ridiculousness. Supposing that this did happen it is not the end of the world, the Virus has to be passed to them for them to become Zombies, so as long as the dead were not hurled onto the streets where Zombies could convert them at will, they would not pose a significant threat. Obviously if there actually is a Future Zombie among the dead this posses a problem...But as mentioned before, a locked door would confound the Zombies progress, so sealing them behind such a door would be logical....Personally I would hurl the bodies into a room with a lockable door and a small reinforced 'porthole' window (Common in hospitals, at least in this country). Checking for Zombies before opening the door, and having someone onhand to beat them back(or shoot them in the head), I would then open, hurl the body (Probably not very far :smile: ) and close the door. It would, however, I ultimately conceed, depend on people knowing the layout of the hospital...a bunch of people running about could quickly find themselves boxed in, leading, potentially, to several of their number becoming Zombies. As to churches and Zombies hearing...It really wouldn't be a problem. In the first place splitting people between churches, hospitals and police stations relieves the burden somewhat considerably. In the second place, Churches are (dependant on the denomination) fairly defencible. Small, high windows, lockable doors, nominally thick walls, and large open areas within the Church itself...These are the ideal conditions for staving off the inital Zombie Invasion. In the third place, if the Zombies did swarm on the Church it relieves pressure elsewhere...On condition that the Church was defencible, this would tie up a large number of Zombies who, devoid of victims, could not increase their numbers. Undefencible churches would be abandoned after the inital attack (Or people decend into the Crypt(again depending on denomination) and end up dying down there, either not becoming Zombies(Starvation/ect), or with a locked door between them and everyone else, thus not a threat.) with some casualties. There would be multiple ways it could play out...Humans win through intelligence and weaponary, a stalemate, or Zombie Victory. So I do conceed that there is a POSSIBILITY that people would, through sheer misfortune and stupidity, swell the Zombie Numbers considerably. At this point the Racoon solution would take place, and the city would be destroyed....Ok it wouldn't kill ALL of the Zombies, but it would kill the majority, and with the lessons learned from the city being destroyed, people would be more ready in the future. Ok, people can deny it, in which case the wider population learn nothing from it, but slowly...if more cities fall...plans would be formulated and action taken. As to simultanous attacks(I mean this in terms of Washington AND New York, not 4 villages near Washington, that is far more likely to occur)...Possible, yes, probable, no. If they did happen then I would say the limit would be 3 simultanous attacks...More than that would be entering into the realms of many billions to one, since it would require Zombies to, through random chance, approach cities hundreds of miles apart at the same time. Two would be a coincidence, and three would be excessively unlikely, but four departs into the realms of fantasy. (This is assuming there was not an intelligence behind it...if there was and it launched global attacks then ultimate fate relies on what their intentions are...If there plan is simply to kill everyone then only a bunker set dozens of meters underground, to avoid detection, would be safe, and even then you would be at their mercy should you ever surface.) Ultimately put, I can't see any logical way from one Zombie to a hoard that threatens the world, any more than I can see a logical way for a prehistoric man to walk out of a cave, gather together serveral different rocks and build a functional nuclear generator. So, in my opinion, preperation for the Zombie Invasion should rely on a short term solution, with long term options...Simply 'waiting it out' is an option, a sensible option, but one of many, with its own pros and cons, and there in lies the discussion.

2 Million people are killed yearly due to driving related accident. The lesson? Don't drive. (Not drinking alcohol is just common sense...regardless of if you are driving or not) Of course it is possible to get a virus from Deviantart...Anything that allows uploading files can, potentially, harbour a virus. (Though I would say it was exceptionally unlikely as it would likely require someone making a picture(or other file), then adding some way for commonly used art programs to access a secret stash of data hidden within the file, then add this secret stash of data(which contains a virus)...) More than this a story or picture may advocate something which, on the surface, looks innocent, but is actually harmful to your computer...Just because you are manually inputting the data doesn't make it any less of a virus, or any less of a threat.

Hehe, that made me laugh. This argument has become one of Dogma verses Logic... Dogma: In 'the event' everyone who is not me will be turned into a Zombie. Logic: In 'the event as you describe' few people will be turned into a Zombie due to [explaination why the average person could avoid being turned into a Zombie without destroying their staircase].* There can be no debate, no exchange of ideas...It is merely a case of who can quote Max Brooks most accurately... *A view, incidently, supported by the 'Historical Analysis'...Suggesting that in thousands of years of Zombie Invasions there has never been a successful one, and never on a scale large enough to warrent a national, let alone international threat.

Well...there are three definations I can think off: 1) (Internet) Bait: to persecute or exasperate with unjust, malicious, or persistent attacks So you are admitting to trolling, the lowest form of unintelligent debate. Also degrades all of your arguments by proving that even when you have totally lost and your argument has died a horrible, horrible death...you carry on. Sheading what little...if any...respect people may have had for you as man capable of intellectual debate. 2) (Asking Ross) That I have grabbed a sword and run off to fight Zombies... Kind of flawed, given that is what you are suggesting...And I have made no suggestion(in recent posts) as to how I would personally deal with the Apocalypse, largely because there is no logical way for the Apocalypse to happen with the conditions put forth; Ergo there is no logical way to assess the merits of any action, other than by comparing them to your own opinions. Opinions which, by the fact that there is no logical way of assessing the merits of any action, are fundermentally flawed. 3) (Personal Opinion) Finally... That, in my absolute analysis of the situation, I have missed the, quite obvious, fact that, in the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE, reality itself with discharge zombies periodically to keep up the numbers. Or zombies have the mystical ability to jump across time and space...but only horizontally, since vertically they are powerless... Or zombies are capable of flight above 20 feet, but not below, unless touching the ground. Or zombies, when no one is looking, travel at the speed of sound. In any event: As per normal your argument is rendered senseless and you are making no effort to explain how this supposed APOCALYPSE, perpetrated by a single mental and physical cripple, is supposed to function. Against scores of criticism you say nothing, but cling to an object (in this case the Guide) as your salvation even though I have rolled it up and battered you about the head with it. To cap it all off you offered no original thoughts...you merely copied directly out of the book, combined with your present life. You might as well have suggested that to make a car, what you would do is buy a book on how to build a car and follow its directions to the letter. Great if you are trying to build a car as portrayed in the book, if you are building a car that isn't portrayed in the book then you have failed (you have also, quite magnificantly, if predictably, failed in building the car portrayed in the book as well...but that is neither here nor there)

Sigh. The fact, at the end of the day, is that if you combined a sheep, badger, a communicable virus, a cripple and a mental patient, you do not get a proficent killing machine. Even if you then make it invunerable, except to headshots, it is not a proficent killing machine. Even if you arranged them to attack en masse...unless someone went into a dead end alleyway...or was shot in both feet...they don't pose a significant risk. True, there are circumstances in which they could pose a threat...If they, for some inexplicable reason, hid behind a door...Same with poisoned umbrellas...But they either require a sheer amount of luck, or some intelligence...Since they don't possess the latter, and the former is, by its nature, unlikely, relatively few people would be infected, resulting in no hoard. If you want to apply a set of totally arbitrary and contradictory rules, then yes....IF Zombies were capable of killing everyone, except you, then Zombies would be capable of killing everyone, except you...It doesn't require explaination, it is a self proving statement...its lazy, sloppy and unsatisfying to anyone who values their rational mind. ...For this purpose 'Bible' is specifically apt as a defination. If you don't have anything stronger than 'and on the fifth day Max Brooks said Zombies run at 1 step per 1.5 seconds' then, I am sorry, but to anyone who values logic, you have lost...not just lost...You have failed in the basis require for intelligent discussion. Now, I will attempt to address some points: Perfectly possible. Outbreak at home or work, one person takes matters directly into their own hands and kills the Zombie. Early enough and this stops the entire outbreak. Implies an element of strategic planning...Or sheer luck. The outbreak could claim...20 people maybe. Not really enough for a hoard...and they would have to amble into a town or city... As a group they attract attention (what with the blood and torn clothes), as individuals they raise the alert when they first attack (Perhaps as some strange Cult). Maximum number of people infected...50...Zombies have a herd mentality, if they felled one human they would swarm said human...Allowing many others to escape. One person attacks one other person...perhaps three if two people tried to restrain them. Worst case scenario, if there is no reaction to one patient trying to eat another, 4 wings of the hospital are converted...though contained for the most part. So approximately 100 people are threatened before quarentine. Home or workplace attack which went undetected through sheer luck. 20-60 people initally infected, threatens around 40 to 120 people before the detection and police are called out. Given that the Zombie Survival Guide says that the 'virus' is not water or airborne this is an extention of 3. Could be any of the above, or a targetted attack...in the event of a targetted attack all bets are off, since intelligence is involved. So, very worst case scenario before the authorities are alerted to some sort of MASSIVE DANGER is 200 people. Potentially a hoard...but not actually dangerous beyond a local level. Notice that it is 'MASSIVE DANGER' not 'ZOMBIE INVASION'. It is, perfectly possible that the authorities think that the attacks are not Zombie related. If they do then the situation can get mildly worse as the frontline of the police force or army may be killed (I have no idea how...If we assume 2.2 feet is equal to 1 step) then to cross a street would take 27 seconds (average is 40 feet width, 1 step per 1.5 seconds(1.5 feet per second, rounded up))...So, unless they tried CQC, anyone at a slight distance is safe. For reference average human walking speed is 4.5 feet per second, giving us an advantage of 200%...Ergo we can, at a leisurely stroll, beat their 'full tilt running'. (Arguing that Zombies can keep up the pace 24 hours a day is all very well and good, but after 1 hour you have a 2 mile lead on them...You then change direction and the Zombie has no way to track you...unless you assume they have ultra advanced senses, in which case you walk through a river...Alternatively walk solidly for 3 hours, have a 6 mile lead on them, rest for an hour, still have a 5 mile lead, walk another 2 hours, increases to a 9 mile lead, rest a while, walk another hour, have a 10 mile lead on them. Get 8 hours sleep. Still have a 2 mile lead on them, rinse and repeat...(This is an example timeframe and doesn't take into account a 24 hour day, adjust accordingly).) We are, thus, faced with a problem similar to the nanites of space...Their speed is actually incompatible with the job they need to do... In order for one zombie to travel from New York to Washington DC it would take, at minimum, 9 days. To cross the United States? 5 and a half months. Now, if New York was attacked by a wave of feral zombies, and destroy totally by them...I think it is not impossible for the US Army to, in 9 days, prepare the defence of their capital...Or fly sorties to mow down the zombies...if that didn't work...bomb them. Assume a zombie landed in Calais and travelled directly to Oslo (by land(So Via St Petersburg)...It would take 118 days, MINIMUM(As the crow flies), since the distance is nearly 3,000 miles and zombies, travelling night and day, without stopping to murder anyone, can travel at 24.45 miles per day. In that third of a year you would have eaten your supply of 100 hamburgers, having wasted $720, and a perfectly good staircase...and spent nearly 4 months drinking water out of a barrel...for no discernable reason. This, of course, assumes there was no effort to stop the 'hoard' of zombies travelling through Europe. If the Zombie Rising occured in your very Town... You have no chance to do half the things you are trying to do...You won't be able to buy hamburgers from a store, and if you break into the store you are putting yourself in harms way. Cooking with a helmet and gloves on is possible...though would make the job more difficult (though cooking with them off is deadly). Really, barricading yourself in your house is foolish in this situation, anyway. Chances are you are going to be bombed, so escape in your body armour...though you could easily be shot in the head by perimeter guards...and the helmet is unlikely to stop several high velocity bullets...and the soliders/police, unless they are fully versed on Zombie Survival, probably won't notice you are moving faster than 1.5 feet per second. If there was a global outbreak then one of two things would happen...1) Nothing or 2) Scorched Earth Policy. In terms of the former, your plan has merits...in terms of the latter you will die. If nothing happens then it means the outbreak is so total that the adminstration is either dead/disabled or has discarded the rest of the country to protect themselves...Which either means 1) Nothing or 2) New World Order in a few years. So, ultimately, your plan would only be worthwhile if there were millions of inital Zombies, implying thousands, if not millions, of bomb/virus spills...and even then you would need to be within 60 miles of an outbreak to actually have a threat posed to you before a milita was formed to protect the town/whatever....And even then the chance of encountering a Zombie would not be excessively high...since they have a herd mentality, so would pick their starting town clean before moving on...According to you they might wait several hours in a house before 'giving up' (Ironically the book contradicts itself here...since Zombies are tireless, so, unless something distracted their attention they would remain there indefinately...They also supposedly have highly acute senses, so could smell your sweat, and sense you through their 6th sense)...So they could easily be waylaid for a week or longer.... In which case your actions of hiding in your house would be seen as traitorous(If you didn't join the Milita when they came a calling), in which case, if the Milita succeeded for any length of time, you would probably face summery justice. Alternatively you would need to defend your home from a number of humans...who are proficent with tools, and so would probably set fire to your house to get you out of there. So...Assuming that there were many millions of Zombies, spread across the globe, and you were at the epicenter of one of the outbreaks, but had, somehow, avoiding being turned into a Zombie...And the Zombies didn't use their evolved senses to find you, or were distracted by your neighbours...Or you merely shot all the Zombies that came close enough for you to kill them....Assuming the population of your town is less than 10,000 this would take some 9,999 bullets...And their collective weight would be 317 tonnes (assuming 70 pounds per person)...easily enough to destroy your house should they attempt to enter it at the same time... Then either they would move on...thus allowing you to collect the various supplies you need...or they would stay camped there...which would make your armour useless as sheer weight of numbers would drag you to the ground and you will be crushed to death (Or, if there are women in high heels you could be stabbed to death). If we assumed 1,000 then the situation is much the same, though you could kill half of them with 500 bullets...assuming you never missed, of course. Also assuming their bumbling about downstairs didn't cause anything to catch light...for instance if they stuck their hand into a plug socket, through a TV, in a Toaster...ect ect... So...Assuming all of that, and assuming you were able to collect all of your equipment, supplies and demolish your staircase, and deal with your family... your plan allows you to survive for an indefinate(~100 days if you had 100 hamburgers...probably less, given that you will be bored and bored people eat...also given that 1 hamburger is not overly filling(Coming from a person who eats 1 meal a day)) period...surrounded by zombies, with nothing to do after your laptop breaks down(as they innevitably do). Yeah...I can certaintly see the appeal of your plan. :rolleyes: Even in the best case scenario...a scenario in which the zombies have departed, leaving you to pick over the remains of the town and local area...You are devoid of human contact(Potentially your computer as well, though you can probably repair it, given your know-how and supplies you get from scavanging)...on a decaying world...With little or no hope of meeting anyone else...So even if you did survive the 3-5 year Zombie life period, you may have well have died at the start of all of it... ERGO:

You know when you bite the inside your cheek? Wisdom teeth are coming through and everytime I close my mouth, for the last two weeks, I get bitten! Most annoying thing is that there is nothing much I can do about it.

You don't have to be able to aim to shoot at a slowly ambling zombie... I mean, from discussions with Rocco and Nex, the majority of Americans own several types of heavy ordinance...Just use any one of them (to make the situation unutterably worse use a flamethrower...though with their ambling gait you could just take a step back every few seconds until the flame damaged their head enough.) You don't even need a gun, you just need to stroll casually to the local gun club, police station or other place that they have guns, and allow gun nuts to protect you. Alternatively you can stay in your house because the Zombies will stand in a field if there are no humans around. Further, you could just wait casually on the second floor...or any room that doesn't have an excessively easy to access window, and let the army deal with the problem. As to the 'Hoard' option....There is no 'Hoard' option...Either you need to have a group of excessively stupid individuals who walked towards the zombies, becoming zombies, or you would need the rising dead. (Or a planned outbreak across a large number of sites) There is no other way you could make a large number of zombies of the type you describe because they simply don't have the capacity to be a considerably threat. Stupid individuals would be killed relatively easily...or at the very least wouldn't multiply out of all control. Rising dead is probably the most like your scenario...though in that case your argument that Norway would be safe falls apart...Would also be much easier to form a milita and hunt them, rather than lock yourself in your house, since there would be a relatively limited number of them. Controlled outbreak...Whoever released them(unless combined with stupid individuals) would come after you. So, realistically speaking, your zombie survival plan hinges on a number of ill concieved notions that would ultimate end in your death if the Zombies were not Easy Mode Zombies, or in total strategic victory for humanity, if the Zombies were Easy Mode Zombies. In the case of the former your plan is workable, but fraught. In terms of the latter, your could change your name to Reodor Felgen...It would work...But the sheer complexity of it is entirely out of proportion with its usefulness.

In computer games, yes, they need to be shot in the head. (Pretty much the sole point of difficulty is FPS(Aside from getting attacked from behind I guess)...and its not overly difficult to shoot a zombie in the head when it is ambling towards you) But GENERALLY speaking...No, you can shoot a zombie anywhere and will eventually kill it. You are talking about 1 specific type of zombie that is DESIGNED to be relatively easy to kill. You are, essentially saying: 'I have completed the game on easy mode, I am the greatest.'

Issues that have names and profile pages.

Of course...if people hadn't insisted on making Falador Library and Rusco subforums that wouldn't have happened....

Six words by Alan Davies: A small pie is soon eaten.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9KHo9z86rA

Yup, and then you will be called into service, or arrested for tax dodging. Zombies' fabled powers of invunerability don't extend much beyond 'If you shoot it enough times, it dies.' In this respect they are very much like Humans...Or any other animal. The only time Zombies can survive getting shot a dozen times is when the script writer demands it. But supposing that it was the case that they could only be killed by getting shot in the head...People would work that out. 'Hmmm, shooting in them in the body has no effect, better shoot them in the head' 'Wow, that works, lets keep shooting them in the head' Unless, as said before, it was a global pandemic, their ability to 'only' be killed by being shot in the head would be a temporary advantage, at best. There is always a weakeness in the system. In this case I am inclined to say human error...but it could easily be some plastic, metal or kevlar related problem. Personally this argument is pointless because your position is 'I am invunerable' and my position is 'Everything has a weakeness'...which are two mutually exclusive ideas. As for being impossible to be knocked out...Now your helmet may be made entirely out of kevlar, neutronium and nano-fibers...but the majority of helmets are designed to protect you from one crash....they may, of course, protect you from a dozen...But the point being that it is not impossible to be knocked out while fighting zombies. Would also say it was not impossible to just have some blood vessels burst and die of a brain heamorrage... Finally, zombies, if we take your 'They are incapable of doing anything, except staggering and biting' approach, would never get as far as Norway...they would be lucky to get five miles from where they were created (assuming someone with an intellect of double figures had a gun(Yes, exagguration, but the point stands, in any given city there will be someone intelligent enough to comprehend the situation)) So your type of zombie is totally incompatible with the idea of Zombie Appocolypse.

1) You fail to address any other point? Censorship of an accident in America, for instance. Raccoon city style. The zombie hoard is created, and escapes before sterilisation. Through various ways and means it then spreads across the world. You can destroy your stairs if you like...but society itself will go on, so you will get hit with Taxes...so your plan falls down there. 2) Sheep cannot survive longer than humans...neither can badgers. If Zombies actually were created with the Intellect of Sheep and the Tenacity of Badgers then I would not fear for any bar the dumbest. 3) Sigh. Yes, Mather, if you were an idiot and let a Zombie chew on your arm for several hours you would be protected. If you got it wet, let it dry, got it wet, let it dry, ect...It would weaken. Or wore it outside (in UV) for long periods of time (Kevlar is particularly weakened by Chlorine and UV light), it would weaken. If you used it in any way, it, like everything, would weaken. Those weaknesses may take years, or months, or weeks of sustained use to manifest themselves...Not the point...The point is that over time it would weaken...the more you used it, the more it would weaken. Though realistically you are more likely to just be knocked out by slipping over...Or a lucky zombie manages to knock your helmet off or something. Or stab you...since Kevlar isn't as strong against knives as bullets. Or you could fall into the water, be knocked out and drown. Alternatively, you could get a cut, say, through shaving. Zombie saliva/blood/whatever gets on your armour, you take your armour off, touch the zombieness, rub the cut, and bam. Infected.

[Argument that conclusive disproves your point] (This is far easier than typing long winded responces =P)

I draw your attention to war. If anything like an uncontrolled, Government Sponsered, Zombie Mutation Virus was going to be dropped...it would be in a warzone...where those things would be happening anyway. I also draw your attention to censorship. I also say that 'Zombie appocolypse is, in itself, an 'ONLY THE EXTREMES MAY HAPPEN' Either you are doomed or a proportionately small number of people are doomed. They are either capable of killing hundreds, or capable of killing few. So...simply put...totally worthless as a predator. Yeah, you are getting called up for national service to fight the small number of zombies that survived an open door, machine gun and a slab of meat. Sigh. You really need to visit more waterfalls. They are not formed through 1 second of exposure, but many hundreds of years...slowly eating away at the stone. Now apply that to the complex 'acid vomiting' zombies and your whole plan dies....again.

Whichever defination makes me right :thumbup:

If you use Newton's system it takes twice as long because it is rough, and goes all round the houses, while Liebinz' is eloquent and direct. (This is the major failing in Modern Academia...everything is based off of what someone else has said, with no real primary research...so two people with two conflicting view points just end up going in circles with no real ability to prove the other wrong because neither side has proof to disprove...And while you could, doubtlessly, dig up Newton's original documents and draw comparisons, since mathematics is fundermentally the same you could do exactly the same thing with Leibniz.)

Newton was proposing a steam engine and Leibniz was proposing a smart car...That was the effective difference between the efficencies of the two systems. And the more efficent system won out, though Newton took credit for it.

Didn't Newton also found modern Alchemy? Also, Newton's form of Calculus was terribly clunky...Most modern Calculus is based on Leibniz' work...Though is often attributed to Newton after an 'independant' governing body, the Royal Society in London, gave him Credit. This, of course, had nothing to do with Newton being President of the Royal Society, or head of the commitee that awarded credit to...er...Himself. Just goes to show...its not what you know, its who you are =P

'Hey, Dennis, I know the zombie appocolypse is starting and all that, but you still need to go into work today, what if the zombies need hamburgers.' Ok, premise one: ~Outbreak happens in a densely populated area and thus Norway is safe for several weeks. If this occured then Norway would be safe for several years and you would be deemed an idiot for smashing your staircase apart, spending...720 US Dollars on 100 hamburgers (Probably a slight over estimation, since this is the price of a Big Mac, according to the Big Mac index) and generally barricading yourself in your house. Also, if the Zombie invasion was that bad in the rest of the world, chances are you would be called up for national service...because, you know, you aren't the only person in Norway. Premise two: ~There is no offical responce...by anyone... The overwhelming likelihood is that, unless there was a targeted attack on all the world leaders and population centers in all countries (Including Norway), as well as internet exchances, phone exchanges, media centers...in conjunction with the destruction of mobile phone masts, electrical power stations, substations, reserviours and other key ammenities...Life would go on. In this respect we have to treat the Zombie Invasion in the same way as we would treat a regular invasion...Which would mean people getting called up, traitors, such as you, getting shot or imprisoned, and martial law being declared. Simply put...there would be an offical responce and you would die if you tried to 'weather the zombie storm' on hamburgers and distilled water. Premise three: ~The Zombie hoard never amounts to more people than you could kill with a sword. Let us take a look back at history, back before Hollywood and the Musket made war seem unending...back to the time of swords. In the first instance a sword does not instantly kill in every instance. A person, or zombie, can be struck down and still have the capacity to bite you in the leg. If we assume you are in a full body suit then this would suffer wear and tear over time (Say a year or so), but you would effectively be safe. In the second instance battles were not fought as one contagious lump, they were broken up into periods of fifteen to thirty minutes, then both sides would nominally withdraw for a similar period, and then rejoin the fight. In the third instance, which Hollywood and the Musket have not destroyed, is the idea that you don't have to die to fall over. Indeed slippery grass (from blood, water, whatever) may cause you to fall over. Similarly weight of numbers may force you to the ground. Once you are on the ground you main advantage over Zombie kind, your speed, is reduced, allowing them to swarm you. In the forth instance, you are fighting a war of attrition...If we accept that premise that there was no offical responce and you built your fort...Then you are one person against near five Million. Premise four: ~Zombies possess no intellect. In the first place this is absolutely basely for real life, only in films, where intellect is largely derivative of how the director wants the scene to play out. In the second place if they have no intellect then we would assume they had instinct of some describable value...Now, they are predators which puts them in the bracket of dogs, cats and other animals that hunt. In which case they would hunt solitarily, until they formed packs, and would possess extremely rudimentary strategy and tactics. For example, dogs sometimes hunt in triangles, or squares...they don't rove aimlessly until they see a rabbit, they will focus on territory likely to contain a rabbit. Further, if you have a dog, and you mime throwing a ball for it, the dog will, dutifully, go off looking for it, unaware of your trick. If you carry on doing this (Either that or my dog is singularly gifted) the dog will...I hestitate to use the word...But will 'reason' that you aren't throwing the ball, and thus will circle you, looking for the ball. Further still, a pack of animals are often capable of taking down a larger animal, such as an elephant, through rudimentary teamwork. If we go EVEN FURTHER, we can imagine that, while the Zombie causing thing annhilates higher brain function, it could merely reduce us to the level of chimps...Zombies are often portrayed as being able to use tools of various kinds, they are sometimes portrayed as being curious about things, such as executive toys... So, if we assume that Zombies have a predators instinct, then your argument falls down, since they might deem you 'too difficult' to begin with, but would eventually come after you, en masse. We could, alternatively, assume, that they have the instinct of cows or sheep, instead. If we assume this then the zombies mill about, don't feel any strong need to do anything and are generally placid. This has the benefit of allowing you to stay in your house, but would make Zombies totally inadequate for actually invading humanity, unless controlled by some power, in which case your argument that Zombies are unintelligent and therefore you would be fine falls down...yet again...Since, they would have targetted Norway as well for their global zombification plans...Unless they weren't planning on global zombification, in which case your plan falls down again because they wouldn't attack Norway... So unless...The Zombies had a Cow like intellect, and where released by a controlling body, everywhere except Norway, and the controlling body was also destroyed by the zombies (Which would imply massive ineptitude on their part to be killed by, effectively, a herd of cows), your entire premise here falls down totally. Premise four: ~Nothing, but Nothing, goes wrong. This, like the whole 'I need my gun to scare off/shoot burglers' debate way back when, is incredibly silly. Firstly, you are not living alone...so far as I know. Your parents, sister, other relatives, could get infected...obviously wouldn't tell you because you would shoot them(as a guess)...it would depend on the latancy of the virus/whatever. Your parents/whatever may take exception to you 'removing the stairs' because of 'riots' in London. (Its highly unlikely that it would be reported as 'Zombie Outbreak' straight away...Even in today's world of facebook and such the rumour would take a while to propagate.) Assuming you don't try to rip out the stairs everytime there is rioting anywhere around the world...I would assume that by the time you 'knew' there was a zombie invasion other people would 'know' and thus other people would be preparing...and with the growth of Solar Panels in the modern world, chances are people would rush there to take them. Would also say that its likely people would flee (People always flee for no discernable reason...or discernable place...in films...), so chances are there would be accidents on the roads. Taking down the stairs...Ok, I have never had to take down the stairs...I would assume it would take longer than an hour to do properly (For instance, collecting all the necessities from downstairs...Washing implements for hygine and such). And once they are down (yes you can get back downstairs in various ways, but all of them are more time consuming and less simple) you can't easily put them back up. Also would have to trace fatigue, and decision making...Obviously we can assume, here, that either the zombie invasion will happen today or next week, our decision has no real bearing on anything...But if it actually were to happen you would either have to be foolhardy, or would be second guessing yourself all the time, which might lead you to make bad decisions. Ultimately, though, no battle plan survives contact with the enemy...You could prepare till you were blue in the face, chances are something would go wrong, and your plan has no real robustness...If zombies are intelligent, or you need of Vitamin K (Go remembering watching House) which isn't supplied from Hamburgers (Or any number of other dodads that are required and you don't get from only eating one type of food.)

Me as a Child :thumbsup: