Ts_Stormrage

Compared to the first poll that's a 9 point drop in support already... Oh and the people that ARE discouraged from voting in the 2nd poll, are actually the ones that DIDN't want it... They, like me, saw through this scam, and didn't bother to change Jagex' mind, cuz it was apparently already made up... As for my own poll not being accurate; it shows what I needed to know... As for you not voting a 2nd time around: how stupid will you feel if they decide that "we didn't get the 1.2m supportive votes needed, so no changes, sorry"..? We all know that's not goign to happen, but :)

And the results are in: - Only 4 out of 10 people believe Jagex told the truth about the whole ordeal, and that they meant to put a petition first and a poll later... - 1 in 6 believe Jagex lied (which seems more often than not to go hand in hand with the incompetence option) and do not believe that they meant to put a second poll in place, nor believe the reasons for the need of the 2nd poll... - Every third person believes Jagex screwed up at least once in the whole ordeal of gauging the support for the planned changes... - 1 in 10 people had a different opinion ranging from: "All of the above" and "none of the above", to believing this whole thing being just a publicity stunt, to simply not giving a crap... Thanks for playing everyone :)

LOL... Believe whatever you want to tell yourself... My poll shows that only 4 out of 10 people believe Jagex told us the truth over believing they are either incompetent or lying (or both)... 1.2M votes in 24 hours or in 3 weeks... Surely it doesn't take 21 times longer to add your password and select your option of choice, rather than just your name, now does it? SURELY the discrepancy in votes MUST be the fact that a lot of people; 1: Lost their password... It takes 3 minutes to get your password back 2: Couldn't be arsed to vote a second time... Yeah why vote when you can actually have a choice of opinion 3: Didn't know there was a second poll... Funny that they did notice the first one without any advertising, and not the second one when it was all over the front page, with emails and even a message when you logged into the game itself 4: Thought that their point was already made with a vote in the petition... You'd think that you'd want to at least match the numbers found in the first poll right? But they didn't... No, 1.2M people 'signed the petition' to support the changes within the first 24 hours (1.6M when it closed), yet only a little over 1.1M people voted yes in the poll I heard all excuses and I countered every single one of them... No, my dear idiot, EVERY single person knows why there were much more votes/sec in the petition, than in the poll... You do not seem to know it... Maybe you do not want to know it, because you fear that knowing admitting the truth might actually have an impact on what Jagex decides to to in, say, 5 hours from now... Trust me it doesn't, and I fully realise this (see, it's easy)... I understand Jagex for screwing up... It is afterall very hard to run a proper poll when you've had the technology on your website for years and years, and have used it in the past (can you smell the sarcasm already?)... I don't understand Jagex for lying about it, nor do I understand the people who will defend these lies at all costs... For some reason they think that, if their desired changes are brought about on the credibility of people willing to commit fraud, the game is somehow different and possibly less enjoyable for them... Well congratulations to you, dear Bladewing, cuz you might actually be one of the good guys... PS: sorry for going somewhat off topic

Quoted for truth :)

i want Veldaban to put us in charge of the Red Axe company :)

If you truly believe that, than you're living in very socially isolated... This is a multiplayer game last I checked, based around player interaction... Some of the updates have indeed killed off parts of the player-to-player interactive bits, and I have every right to say that that is a bad thing for the game as a whole... You might think my views are conflicted when I say "what others do affects me" and "player interaction should be encouraged and not killed off", but do not get me wrong here: While I believe that this is, and should remain always, a multiplayer game where what other people do directly or indirectly affects me, I abhor some of the actions of others (such as botters)... I wish for Jagex NOT to remove the player interaction so I would no longer be affected by it, but instead remove those that affect me in a negative way... You may think that this line of thought comes from an ivory tower, but in the real world you would not want to stop going outside your house, even if you got mugged or beaten every time you closed the door behind you... It's a debate on what's right and what's not...

I try not to mention the extreme phobia of ventriloquist dummies I had as a kid. Went on for about two years as well, but it still doesn't make it conversation-worthy. Neither did the rest of the news bulletin... But if they're going to mention one new CEO, why not another?

So green: They lied AND are imcompetent?

Selfish or not; give us the chance to vote on each, plz? Since it cannot be proven to be a package deal, we shouldve been able to vote for seperate options...

Wow, an actual intelligent debate... Havent had one of those in a while :D @X3en: I'm sad to see you did not find my article interesting enough for your entertainment... But I do disagree with you... While the community indeed seems to be shrinking, I also believe that it is breaking up into smaller, more enclosed communities... People that think alike and/or have the same interests tend to end up hanging out with one another... But I do not agree with you that the community of today is but a "leftover" of some major catastrophic event... The last one that saw a mass exodus out of RuneScape was when the late '07/early '08 updates happened, and the numbers have since then steadily climbed across the board... Not by much, but climbing they did...

Not to worry; I apparently agree with you with just one sidenote: The only reason massive increases of bots will not hurt much; is because there already so many...

No mention of Geoff Iddison? dude served em almost 2 years...

Vote other and explain why you voted other then :)

@ Dragonlordjlkp;; I agree completely with your statement about Jagex probably being unable to combat bots, especially since their own news post said so... But bots being something to ignore? I think not... With Unbalanced Trade returning this will definitly bring Gold Farmers back in business, meaning a MAHOOSIVE increase in bots... You may not remember the days when skilling was a good moneymaker, but I do... Check some of my older Times articles for some more detailed reports of the days when alching Yew Longbows and fishing Sharks was profitable (seers and catherby were the main economic hotspots), and how bots ruined it... Skilling (some of it) used to be profitable, and bots ruined this giant part of what was once a very diversive game... A few cheaper dragon bones is not worth this, if you ask me...

I know, Pulli, but this is the blatent lie that Jagex is selling us... Also; if you can be arsed to care about Unbalanced Trade and Dangerous Wild coming back, you can DEFINITELY be arsed to do 2 minutes of work to get your password back... So I asume you voted in my poll too? ;)

@GuidesForScapers: I never said I honestly believe this... I know more than anyone else that this is basicly a giant scam (see the other active poll on this forum section I made), and I'm fascinated by the way people are fooling themselves on some of the issues that have come up the last few weeks... @Cyon & Willy (yes, Willy ;)): MMG said in a chat that they are hoping to "at least match the numbers seen in the petition"... See for the vid of that chat (it's the sped up version, for normal speed check the channel of the uploader)... @Ginger: It doesn't, and I believe the other way around (wilderness needing free trade) is also debatable if drops are adjusted accordingly

@ Troll: they said they wanted a similar number as what they saw in the 'petition', which means 1.2m supporters... @ Willy: Supporters, not votes... Some people voted nay or idc... Current support is at almost 1.1m (under 3k votes from that)...

Current rate of votes suggests that they will not... I repeat: NOT make the desired number of 1.2m supporters by the time the referendum ends... Discuss...

lol, why... I think the trend is pretty clear...

Cynic? or realist? It's a cliché but there you have it...

Air Wales; Sure thing, spread the word and who knows what might happen... Sorry that it did not provide as much discussion value as my articles usually do ;) And yes, Earth Poet, while reporting bots or anyone for that matter seems to be awesully restricted, I'm hoping against hope that jagex will actually implement a system that truly detects all bots... Its up to them to permban them then, and not give em multiple chances... Which is something I completely forgot to add to my article... Jagex stated that they are giving people 2nd and 3rd chances for botting in the hopes that they would not lose revenue over people quitting... But wouldn't it cost much much more to have each bot-suspect account looked at and then decided upon wether to Ban it, remove some XP/GP, and in the latter case how much and of which levels? Wouldn't a simple (hell yes to automation on this) BOT = BAN rule not free up much more manpower that is now used to determine punishments? Or, and this is what I fear, are there already some predetermined set of rules when to ban and when not to ban? Say, when you are, or at some point have been a subscriber?

pics or it didnt happen...

Experiment yourself... Have someone make an account that they'll never use again, and have it stand on a world near you... You can even attempt to trade with it before you try and report it... This is apparently a safety feature so you do not report the wrong person by mis-spelling its name...

This is a really common argument in RS for some reason. People don't blame Jagex for making the GE ridiculously easy to manipulate, they blame players for doing the only logical thing and taking advantage of it. They don't blame Jagex for not being harsh enough about banning bots, they blame players who bot when they know the worst that'll happen is a temp ban and maybe some stat resetting. And now, they don't blame Jagex for encouraging players to vote multiple times by making a vote that allows it, but instead blame the players who did exactly what they'd be expected to do. The fact is, when you're in charge of controlling or organizing people, it's more often than not your own damn fault if those people don't do what you want. The key is to make what you want them to do be the best course of action- if somebody can profit from doing something you'd rather they didn't (manipulation clans, spam voting), then you need to CHANGE SOMETHING so that it's no longer a smart thing to do (remove GE limits, implement a login on the vote). In the case of the vote, anyone who thought for half a second about what a player who wants the wilderness back is going to do would realize, oh hey, they're going to write a script to vote over and over. That is Jagex's fault because is was a direct and inescapable result of making a petition in which anyone can vote an infinite number of times. Why blame players for doing exactly what Jagex all but instructed them to do? Isn't this a pretty big moral argument? Like who is responsible if your house is burglarized - the criminal, or you for leaving the door unlocked? The way I see it, you simply can't pin the blame on Jagex for their naïvety and inability to expect people to tell the truth in the petition. They had to adjust when they realized how dishonest the community would be about the whole situation - which should have been expected. So, we can blame Jagex for being shortsighted, but not for lying. What makes you think that it wasn't expected? Jagex have never held an open petition on an update to the game before, for this very reason. The only thing that's changed is the widespread interest in the issue. Suddenly they're acting differently, claiming that 'Your voice matters!' and acting like the community should draw together under this issue, and that includes people who don't even remember their passwords. The whole thing is very intentional, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was proposed by some PR guru at Jagex. If it was a PR stunt, then why not say so afterwards? No they claimed it was just another way of gauging support for the changes... To me it looks like they messed up and didn't want to say so... If they came out right now and said "you knwo what, you're right, we all did this to make the cmmmunity as aware of it as possible" I might be more inclined to your way of thinking... But they didn't, so I'm not... As to the argument whether I should blame Jagex or the people that are abusing it; I'm a paying customer, so I expect the quality product they promised... If Jagex are going to use these polls and petitions as grounds to legitimize rolling back the changes that, in their own words, once threatened to ruin RuneScape altogether, I have every right to question their logic and every right to some answers too...

I think it's quite relevant how Jagex treats its customers, but thast may be just my opinion... Just as I posted my opinion, and am asking for other people's opinion... That is all... I'm not out to make Jagex look like a bunch of tools, they do a pretty damn fine job of that themselves...