warri0r45

I still don't quite understand that, sorry. To give you a scientific perspective our teeth and gut are not the kind we see in purely herbivorous animals. We are omnivores. We can argue what we believe is right or wrong but the way the human body has evolved or is 'designed,' if you prefer, isn't arguable. @ raz, there's no need to be so hard on him.

Sure. And you certainly did. Please, think about your opinions. Through reading anecdotes of the lives of people who have had sex changes it's apparant that there is something beyond thier control about it. They yearn for something that they were born without and they can get really mixed up and lost becuase of it. They really do need to be felt like an actual part of society and not made to feel like they're some sort of second class race of violent, threatening people. They yearn for acceptance just like anyone else and you, I, and everyone here knows that everyone deserves to be treated equally and not judged by the way they choose to live thier lives. Base every individual on thier personal merits. Everyone deserves that much at least. An attatchment to a tagline as a consequence of existing is unjust and unfair. I hope that gives you a little to think about.

That's your best comeback... Do you still think that people who have a sex change are dangerous to society? Still think they just mostly commit suicide? If so wouldn't that be because it's people's intolerance and lack of acceptance making them feel sub-human? Still think that having a sex change won't make any of these people happier? Have I changed your view at all? A yes or no will do. If you still don't see by now how intolerant some of the stuff you have been saying has been I'm not going to bother any more.

Hmm.. I've heard it's more expensive to go through the legal process of enforcing capital punishment than to keep them in prison for life. Highly doubt that. A life sentance (opposed to it's title) is 60 years. 60 times $100-200k is somewhere around 6-12 million dollars. Not everyone lives for 80+ years. Especially not in prison. By the way. Where do you get that $100-200k per year? Read somewhere that that is what it takes to keep 'em fed and clothed and whatnot. Jeez... 100 to 200 thousand a year? I don't need that much to be fed and clothed and I get good food and new clothes. I might piece together some research at a later date unless someone else beats me to it... Anyway I'm not overly pro or against. Ultimately I'd rather a life sentence with parole and a remorseful and repenting convict who won't do it again. Alas, this isn't a perfect world...

Really? I wouldn't mind hearing why if that's ok.

:lol: Nice. As with some people here, I think the whole humans destroying the planet has been blown way out of proportion, yes, we're having an effect on the planet by simply living on it, but if civilisation as we know it today was still in, say, the Roman times of early A.D, would Earth still be going through the same phase it is now from the way we live? Maybe some people like pumping their egos by underestimating how completly insignificant humans are in the universe. Heck, in the Milky Way. Actually, maybe some people just don't see what little impact we make on even our own solar system. Planets change. Of course we have a completely insignificant effect on our galaxy and solar system but on this planet the environmental effects we've put it through are noticable, be they global warming or otherwise. It's not ego saying it's people that do alot of damage to this planet - it's basic ecology.

That's a good vid. I'll give you another pro for acting now; our race gets to sustain our current way of living. If we keep ignoring it we'll get into the dangerous mentality of non-action which leads to sustainability issues for the human race with regards to energy production. I'm keen on what I can know. I know that if we don't act to reduce reliance on fossil fuels, we'll get a right kick up the backside when we get to the last barrel of oil.

Interesting hypothetical. If we tend not to worry about material possessions and see them as replacable then our kids will grow up feeling the same way. It could shock them when it comes time to pay the bills of thier own house and find they are constantly short because they were taught, in a way, that when something breaks we can always just go buy a new one. I'd say taking care of material posessions and making sure we look after them isn't so much materialistic, rather it gives us a knowlege of what our limits or budget is which in turn gives us crucial life skills. To throw in a cliche, at the end of the day, we should be aware that the posessions themselves don't bring happiness. It's having them and the security of knowing we have them coupled with how (for better or worse) society works that makes us secure and gives us the best chace at happiness. I have a guitar. It's made me happy as larry and continues to do so for the 3 or so years I've had it now. I realise that it's not the object that makes me happy, it's the sound I get out of it. Eh, you might find some meaning somewhere in there. :lol:

You're joking, right? Vegetarians don't always suffer nasty, nasty deaths nor are humans meant to purely eat meat. We are omnivores. I'm sure there are some very happy vegetarians out there too. Yeah.. must be a joke. Edit: Here's a little food for thought. http://www.rense.com/general20/meant.htm

(1) In some cases for the better? Or do you think it's all doom and gloom? (2) Really? Where do you think they may get that inferiority complex from? Perhaps society dosen't like people with transgender issues so they begin to listen to the hate and propoganda drilled into them. (3) I agree. What happened to them being a threat to society? I still would't mind any source to back up your opinion that it perhaps/no doubt leaves them in a worse situation than they were previously in. Read some of the stories in the sources I gave. Actually let me help you make your point. Scour through this: http://www.lgbthistorymonth.org.uk/history/100lives.htm And find some people who are perhaps/no doubt worse off after thier surgery for reasons other then thier persecution from society. Find any figure that states suicide rates are higher among transexuals than those pre operation and I'll work on doing the same for the opposite case. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.lauras-playground.com/mtf.htm http://www.metrokc.gov/health/glbt/transgender.htm http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/morbid.htm http://www.nickgorton.org/Medical%20Therapy%20and%20HM%20for%20Transgender%20Men_2005.doc Looks like this source states that transition makes transgendered men less suceptible to anger and violence because of lowered testosterone. Compare that to what you wrote. Book, page 21 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Come on mate, can't argue with myself forever... Or perhaps I can... http://society.guardian.co.uk/mentalhealth/story/0,,1272093,00.html Conflicting views thus far. It looks like some procedures work out, some don't. Some studies are bogus, some aren't. Finally for now, take a look at this, quoted from http://www.suicidology.org Correlate that little fact with any statement that suicide rates are higher among transsexual individuals. They commit suicide because society is a threat to them. Just as I've been arguing counter to you saying they are the threat to society. They feel isolated from society and the masses look down on them and as a result they're driven to suicide. Stay tuned for more.

Sign of insecurity? Why bring that up? There's another thread for it. Anyway to be honest I wouldn't say my opinion has changed drastically, just evolved. I either find myself agreeing with someone or not or them making a really good or bad point that I keep in mind. @ Necromagus, I couldn't agree more about your point on Kerry.

I have no intention of starting an argument. I just want to give a possible explanation of this. If you disagree, okay, great. I already admitted that the Bible does contradict itself, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing is rubbish. Anyways, on to my explanation. It could be that after those animals were created, they had no specific names. Only after Adam was created were they given names. So the order of events... -Animals are created -Adam is created -Animals get names During the first two events, the animals might not have had names. It's a little confusing, and I didn't word it so well, but I hope you get my point. It could still be a contradiction though. And this will probably be my last post on this thread for a while...I'll stand on the sidelines, neutral, as stubborn, arrogant and narrow-minded atheists battle just as stubborn, arrogant and narrow-minded (And over-defensive) fundamentalists. Go have fun making yourself look bad. There's plenty of space on the sidelines if you want to join me. (I'm not saying every person that posts is stubborn, arrogant, etc...But most are...) You're trying to rationalise something that you know is wrong. Try and explain those bold words please. You don't have to rationalise everything you see in the bible. Amen to that.

It's a mysterious and mythical creature. Have you ever seen it peer it's scaly head from the murky waters of tip it? To cut the crap, do you think a change of opinion has ever ocurred here? Is it possible? Go nuts.

I'd tend to agree with you. I've not seen many of the figures for myself but I'll always go with the scientific consensus.

Ahh, don't worry mate. I applaud people such as your self for thinking about it and taking the middle ground. I tend to overlook much of threads like these. Most of it is boring rhetoric from both sides.

Defender, basic psychology tells us that sexuality and sexual preference is no where near as simple as just choosing. Obviously we can choose but you're making it sound as if it's easy in order to rationalise what the bible says because you believe it. Don't do that because your just kidding yourself. Edit: Let's give this an anectodal touch. Explain to me why an evangelical such as Ted Haggard would piss his career and faith up against the wall and 'choose' to engage in homosexual activity.

He actually came to me in a vision. He sais no, he dosen't hate [bleep]s. He actually loves the whole Mardi Gras scene. Oh and beer, he loves a cold one. Yep, that's just about it. Top bloke.

Interesting article, thanks for that. It's pretty clear that there's still a lot we don't know about climate. It's a pretty huge thing to try and break down and explain because it changes so much. Regardless, sustainability should be our focus because it's a known that not trying to clean up our act and find as many alternative energy sources as possible is going to leave us stuck in this fossil fuel rut which could ultimately be our downfall as a culture.

fixed it for ya :wink: In the broader sense, totally correct.

Any form of Biblical literalism is potentially dangerous.

Striker I didn't think you were going to post here any more. Still you seem to have said your opinion is of no less worth than mine without explaining why. An opinion is nothing if you just 'feel that way.' Seriously though, I will listen to any reason you can give as to why people who have sex changes are a danger to society. Untill then I honestly think that claim is absolute and utter BS. Here are some sources which affirm my position. http://www.queerty.com/queer/news/city-manager-ousted-after-sex-change-announcement-20070228.php Persecuted for sex change. http://society.guardian.co.uk/socialcare/story/0,,1273049,00.html Great article but a long read. Shows how indeed the process shouldn't be taken lightly. Here are some highlights: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/gender/story_011030.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006460255,,00.html

You're quite entitled to hold that opinion, but I'm quite sure people who've had a sex change aren't the dangers to society you've painted them out to be; I've shown an example which is quite the contrary to that assertion and I'll get some more together a little later just so you can drop in and have a look see. As a matter of fact, I've just read a few articles on the issue which I'll elaborate on later. As I've said, an opinion dosen't mean [cabbage] unless you back it up with reasoning. Hence why I've been on your back to come up with any source to confirm your position or even a justification through reasoning would have done (you say you don't want to repeat yourself but I cant seem to find where you say why they are a danger to society). If you don't want to continue this discussion I obviously can't force you to.

Not bad mate. Looks like you've got something good going on there. My only criticism would be to strengthen up the vocals or even put a Kurt Cobain-esque grungy feel to them. Either way well done thus far and best of luck with everything. Oh yeah and great soloing too. :P

I definately appreciate the genre. Craps all over 99% of the [cabbage] you hear on the radio. I feel a similar way about blues. Great stuff. Reccomend any Jazz artists be they modern or old?

It's a bit more of a science than that. Kinda been refined over thousands of years.