warri0r45

Damn...We gotta be 21 here. No more wine for now. (Althrough I've had some before, like at age 12. :wink:) Anyways sometime in Feb and I am too lazy to tell but I'm 15. So yeah. I find a legal age of 21 to be interesting. I've always thought it would entice teens and generally all young men to drink more. You know how we males are like; if it's against the rules, we'll break em and do it anyway. :P Being 18 and drinking at bars and pubs I find myself being more of a responsible drinker although I was never really a 'drink till I pass out' sorta guy.

Did I say I was worried? :wink: :P Slightly annoyed, yes. Worried, hardly. I know the science backs me up and I have no reason to be biased. Here's a shocker guys; if evolution is wrong... I don't care. :P Science moves on, so do I as do generally all scientists who don't have some sort of egotistical inferiority compex. Science isn't about proving theists wrong. They should tatoo that to all people being baptised or something, haha, jk. :P

Rename it, perhaps? 'Tripwire detector projectile apparatus' ...or whatever floats your boat.

His name is Kent Hovind, and you just quoted him 100%. Good job thinking for yourself. ;) He doesn't "prove" anything wrong. He's a dude who believes the Earth is only 6000 years old just because the Bible says so. He blatantly ignores all the history before that period and seems to think empires like Egypt were built in a day, or something. In short, he's insane. It is a good point though...All the planetary bodies that spin the wrong way are blamed on one thing - astroid impacts. Big ones. While it is possible, the chances of it ALL happening just like that, perfectly, is kinda' small when you think about it. Edit: Warrior, go to http://www.drdino.com or google video, you can find all his seminars. They're interesting, but BS nonetheless. I'm trying to think how planets spinning in different rotations proves his point. I'm no astrophysics expert, so anyone is welcome to point me out to the basis of why his point is good :? . And thanks for the tip, Tigra. Perhaps later, though. Basically, if the Universe was made from an explosion, and galaxies formed themselves, everything should spin in the same direction unless acted upon by another force. Thus the asteroid's hitting everything turning the wrong way. Creationists should stick to Space, not Earth, for "proof". You'll find nothing but evidence to the contrary on Earth...It's what's in space that defies cosmic evolution (unless they asteroids stuff would be true, which it could be, though improbable). Hmm. I suppose, but all cosmic bodies (i.e. stars and planets) were formed millions of years after the 'hot particle soup' cooled down. I'm thinking entropy and the dissolution into disorder would have made things less predictable and less perfect by then. I'm not sure, as I say, I'm no expert. Not the best argument I've ever heard, though.

What's a bad behaviour? Good to see some things were cleared up. By a bad behaviour I would suggest a behaviour that does not aid or harms an animals standing in a biological relationship i.e. a community which requires co-operation and relationships. It's a bit more complex for humans; we feel that we can behave freely which gives us an illusion of strength, I suppose. Anything with humans is more complex, for obvious reasons. Aside from us, it's pretty clear that bad behaviours are at a minimum in the animal world and my segestion for the reasonin why would be evolution. Do you think that morality coming from the evolution of behaviour has any grounding? Take a scientific stance for a second. Regardless of evolution or not what insane is saying has to do with God. So including evolution in the picture doesn't remove God. Looking at scientifically doesn't remove God. Scientifically it is possible that evolution has something to do with bad behaviors but realistically God could possibly be behind that anyways. So if there is no God, insanes hypothesis is there could be no morals. So what does taking a scientific stance accomplish? They seem very parallel to me. You are looking at a very small window and insane is looking at the possibilities. First comment: Possibly, The purpose of my posts are to give an alternative to a source of 'godless' morals, if you like. Second comment: What does science accomplish? look around you, my friend; a hell of a lot. And I'm looking at a small window? he suggests that morals come from god and that without god, there are no morals, which is fine. I suggested another possibility in the form of evolution... What exactly are you trying to say in all of this?

His name is Kent Hovind, and you just quoted him 100%. Good job thinking for yourself. ;) He doesn't "prove" anything wrong. He's a dude who believes the Earth is only 6000 years old just because the Bible says so. He blatantly ignores all the history before that period and seems to think empires like Egypt were built in a day, or something. In short, he's insane. It is a good point though...All the planetary bodies that spin the wrong way are blamed on one thing - astroid impacts. Big ones. While it is possible, the chances of it ALL happening just like that, perfectly, is kinda' small when you think about it. Edit: Warrior, go to http://www.drdino.com or google video, you can find all his seminars. They're interesting, but BS nonetheless. I'm trying to think how planets spinning in different rotations proves his point. I'm no astrophysics expert, so anyone is welcome to point me out to the basis of why his point is good :? . And thanks for the tip, Tigra. Perhaps later, though.

19th January FTW. 18, I is and thus beer for me. :D

How scientific of him for being religously motivated. :wall: :wall: :wall: I'd be interested to this DVD of yours, though. And have you checked out my topic, 'the challenge'? There's a link in my sig. (I feel like a broken record).

What's a bad behaviour? Good to see some things were cleared up. By a bad behaviour I would suggest a behaviour that does not aid or harms an animals standing in a biological relationship i.e. a community which requires co-operation and relationships. It's a bit more complex for humans; we feel that we can behave freely which gives us an illusion of strength, I suppose. Anything with humans is more complex, for obvious reasons. Aside from us, it's pretty clear that bad behaviours are at a minimum in the animal world and my segestion for the reasonin why would be evolution. Do you think that morality coming from the evolution of behaviour has any grounding? Take a scientific stance for a second.

How negative... God dosen't hate [bleep]s. Look no furthur guys, we've found the antichrist: Fred Phelps. These people need to learn to look through the eyes of love and not fear. It'll make them happier.

Isn't it consistent with non-theism to assume non-morality? I mean, without a God, where is your moral standard coming from? If it is coming from yourself, then you can do whatever the hell you want and still be "moral". It would be inconsistent to see humans as moral beings without an absolute standard of morality, no? It is consistant to assume non-morality for atheists according to your belief. It really does puzzle me why theists continually come up with the amoral atheists argument when it's wrong. I and other atheists are living proof that atheists can be moral beings - it really is that simple. And as for morality coming from ourselves and us doing 'whatever we want' and still being moral... what?... just look around at the atheists of this planet, do they all do whatever they please? No, the vast majority abide by laws. Why? Becase they are moral beings, perhaps? If you want an explanation for this, it lies in evolution and behavioural genetics. http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/behavior.shtml#2 Just say, as it has been shown, that behaviours lie in our genes (although a tad more complex than one gene coding for one behaviour etc). We inherit bad behaviours, right? Animals inherit the behaviours of thier parents, in many cases (well, in all cases. It's not like you see animals of the same species acting drastically different). Just say that these behaviours are the result of natural selection and make that animal best suited to it's biological society and aid in it's strength and longevity, not unreasonable, correct? Now take the behaviours that humans have evolved to best suit our biological community and label them 'morality' collectively. Make sense to anyone out there? A simple yes or no and why will do.

The wikipedia article says that my first theory "has been refuted." Sorry, it was like 12 A.M when I wrote that and I was very tired and on the verge of falling asleep in front of the computer. Anyway, what I was trying to say in my last post is that my second theory (time is defined differently for different species (when species A thinks a second has passed species B thinks that a minute has passed), and 6000 years for a creature we call "God" may seem like 4 billion years to us... I'm not going to look for any more proof for my first theory right now... Whenever your ready but I hardly see how you could prove the perception of god with science. :? The fact that the speed of light is constant isn't proven yet. The law of conservation of matter/energy isn't either. Actually, none of the laws are. But we still accept them as the truth. Sorry for bumping this... Also sorry if this gets locked because a mod thinks this is a "religion/agnosticism is bunk thread." So what's the point you're trying to make? Any human being wouldn't percieve billions of years to be 6000. Still no results from this little experiment of mine... Human being? I'm saying that "God" might be something (a small hippo-platypus (South Park, episode 316)) that perceives time differently than we do. It hasn't been proven yet, but the law of conservation of matter/energy hasn't either. (If you take the Bible literally, this might be why "God" didn't "send" "Jesus" sooner...) I believe in evolution and the Big Bang too... Read my posts on the previous pages (you might not understand some of them since I typed most of them at midnight or so...)... like I said, I hardly see how it is remotely possible to prove a god's perception of time. It's just an idea, it's not even scientifically theoretical. I admire you for trying, but what do you think I'm looking for? Something with logic, proof and scientific reasoning, or ideas that god himself could percieve things differently?

It's the most real because it's borderline on a philosophy. No deities, just the power of the human mind. And a few things in bold in response to Korskin: Of course there is more to God than what's written in the Bible. When you see something incredibly beautiful or fantastic you might say "there must be a God" just by observing it. But you don't get any answers from observing the world. Science ring a bell? Perhaps you worded this wrong... If you read the Bible and believe it's God's words, it must be more important than your own subjective feelings or views. How can I know that my speculations are the truth. I might aswell be wrong as I can't be sure. Ok, you're confusing subjective opinions with objective fact and reasoning in the form of science. That's why we need the Bible to know what's right or wrong. I think we have all come to the point where we know we don't need to be theistic to be moral beings. Statistics and common sense tell us this. If it's God's words, it must be true. And what God says is more important than what I say or what my anyone else says. Science doesn't acknowledge God, it doesn't say that there is an intelligence behind the creation. Purely because science can only acknowlege what we know, i.e. the natural world. It in no way discounts the supernatural. I don't think we should ignore everything that's not in the confines of the Bible. Good, now we're getting somewhere. It's good to see we can agree no matter who/whatever created the universe, it is a naturally incredible place. The problem is when something contradicts the Bible. Then it's most likely not true. Not quite. You're basing that on your belief, therefore what you say has basically no weight against science. Science isn't modelled around what people believe, only around what we know. Unless we somehow have misinterpreted the Bible. Everything that isn't mention in the Bible can't be of the same relevance as the things mentioned. This is based on a Bible view saying it's God's words. What I keep saying is that we aren't limited to the Bible. That's what I've been saying too, good to see we can agree on that. The Bible is just what's most important. Example: The Bible doesn't say what I should have for dinner today or how I should spend the rest of my day, as it's not important and I'm free do whatever I want. However, the Bible says what I should focus on throughout life. Science is important in a completely different way to religion. Science isn't a philosophy to live your life by and I'm not askig you to treat it as such.

The wikipedia article says that my first theory "has been refuted." Sorry, it was like 12 A.M when I wrote that and I was very tired and on the verge of falling asleep in front of the computer. Anyway, what I was trying to say in my last post is that my second theory (time is defined differently for different species (when species A thinks a second has passed species B thinks that a minute has passed), and 6000 years for a creature we call "God" may seem like 4 billion years to us... I'm not going to look for any more proof for my first theory right now... Whenever your ready but I hardly see how you could prove the perception of god with science. :? The fact that the speed of light is constant isn't proven yet. The law of conservation of matter/energy isn't either. Actually, none of the laws are. But we still accept them as the truth. Sorry for bumping this... Also sorry if this gets locked because a mod thinks this is a "religion/agnosticism is bunk thread." So what's the point you're trying to make? Any human being wouldn't percieve billions of years to be 6000. Still no results from this little experiment of mine...

I've lost count :| We should all pitch in and get him a cybernetic limb :D Just take them of Glenn McGrath after the World Cup :) McGrath? That bloke's got twig-legs. The legs of a pidgeon, they is. :-w

Of course, the queenslanders always stand up when needed. :P Haydos FTW.

Your friends said METALLICA were emo? They clearly have no idea about music whatsoever. Well... They like rap, that proves you right. As for music I am ashamed of, no such thing. Haha, I don't care what they listen too, it's just having the words 'metallica' and 'emo' in the same scentence is borderline on the stupidest thing I have ever heard. :P

Atheism makes perfect sense to me when all organised religions claim thier god is 'the one' and they attribute thier own qualities to him. If there is a god, I couldn't be sure which one is correct so I choose not to associate myself with any of the world religions. Being a 'servant' for god isn't appealing to me either. Serving implies subordination. In my view, if there were a god, he wouldn't require service, just mateship. In reference to your concerns on the impossibilities of evolution, find me a source with no religios connotations or motivations, i.e. a scientific journal or article, which claims this or simply have a look at the link in my sig. If you are serious about wanting to know about evolution, indeed if anyone is, you should ask scientists as I can assure you 9/10 will say it's entirely plausible. Just remember there are other religous folk out there not as sensible and level headed as you who think the bible is fact and want nothing more than to defend thier position no matter what logic or evidence is thrown thier way. Anyway it's good to hear that you don't take the bible as literal fact (Whether there is a god or not isn't determined by facts). A moral guidebook makes much more sense, really.

GOD I have to recite that every day at the beginning of Bio class... I'm frikking forced to lie through 9/10ths of it... Maybe the Church thinks that if we say it enough, we'll be brainwashed to believe what we say is true :-k . In bio class? Why? Sorry that just seems wierd to me.

That made me LOL in real life. I can just imagine some little kid... "Hey mommy, what's this stuff in my belly button?" [Throws it on a calendar] [Lint lands on the second Sunday of April] [New holiday is formed] Or was it bunny lint? o.0 (Sorry if I made too much fun of a spelling mistake. And I'm a Christian, so don't go flaming me for hating Easter and st00f. It was too hard to resist) And on topic - A few things I confess... It was his knife. He did it. It was his fault. He started it. And I only had a little of that white powder. Haha, no that was funny, I knew that would happen when i posted it, lol. Its just Tigra and warri0r who are pissing me off now. One can't combat my argument, so he takes a joke to seriously and trys to prove me wrong by combating the joke, while the other dosn't seem to know what I mean, he only knows he want's to dissagrea, so he takes a shot at my sig. I don't 'take a shot' at people for no reason. What you put in your sig truly is stupid and I'm sure anyone else could realise this as I'm pretty sure (unless I missed the meeting) that everyone on this planet values what the truth is. Amirite? Someone, tell me I'm not insane, please. Together the two make me out to be some hypocritical "i'll say what i want, when i want" poster who dosn't think through what he says. Guss what guys, your wrong. I never open my mouth without thinking, I learned that from personal experiance. Guys like you make me sick. I post one thing and you make an assuption about me. Please, so much negativity makes you die quicker. What ever your stand on religion is, I don't care right now. You could be gregory the great and I honestly wouldn't care. Wether I'm right or wrong, what I have seen has shown me two things. 1. You really don't know what your talking about, and 2. You take pot shots at who you can when you can because you get some sort of rise out of it. No, I don't get a kick out of this and I don't take pot shots just to boost a pathetic ego, trust me. Back off boys, you don't want to mess with me. This isn't me being all "I'm smarter and better than you so don't even try it." This is me being all "I'm geting really really pissed right now and you don't want to get me in a flame war cuz it will probably get us both banned." Does anyone else really see this as kinda wierd. We both make a couple of comments and you actually get mad about it. And we shouldn't mess with you...over the internet. We probably don't even live in the same country, mate. Life is to short to get mad over trivial crap like this Honestly, I'm the kind of guy who can take a good joke and will generaly roll with the punches, but there are a few points where, when hit, I will snap and tear you appart if we were IRL. Yall are treading on thin ice, so for my sake as much as your own, just back off. O.T. I confess to hateing 2 people. (i'll let you guss who) I confess to having a mental disorder which makes me cringe at negativity and people yelling, truly. I made one comment and you come up with this response... :-k

My question/point is: What is more important 4 teh followers of God, what teh Bible says or everything that teh Bible doesn't say? Science seems more liek a hobby to me rather then necessary 4 a life with God. My whole point is that god is infinite as is teh universe he created (possibly, aside from phisical limitations, I'd say teh knowlege we can gain is close to if not limitless). If you want to live your life by teh confines of a book, thats your choice, but there is so much else out there, so much of god's creation your shutting yourself off from because it's not necessary according to teh limitations of bible. People wrote teh bible, people have limitations, and therefore teh bible has limitations. teh bible conains nothing of modern science or amazing discoveries of teh universe which god made. You may argue that no one back then knew of these things... well god knew, didn't he? He created it! If teh bible contains none of these things which god created then it has gaps. It's not teh whole story, it's not teh whole truth and my best bet would be that god gave us science, as he made everything, right?. He gave us science to figure out what can't be put in a finite book. Again, live your life within teh confines if you want, it just seems so limited and shut off from god's creation to me. You speak a lot about limitations. I'm my opinion you are limiting God. Why wouldn't he be able to create a book containing what's most important in life? A book that is sufficient. Sure man wrote the book, but that just makes them a tool for God to use in order to say what he wants to say. The rest, that God chose to leave out of the Bible is not of the same importance. Instead people are free to gain as little or as much knowledge about the less important stuff out there. It doesn't make everything else pointless, it's just not as important as what the Bible says. We're not meant to be isolated with our Bibles. We are meant to live life focused on what's important. And what's most important in the Bible? Jesus. I'm limiting god? You're the one who feels the need to live his life by paper. God's creation is everywhere, god made everything and science is a gift to uncover the mysteries of his creation. This argument isn't really going anywhere so I'm done. I just don't agree that science can't be as important to our lives as the good book, that's all. It helps us in so many ways and if nothing else, gives us a picture of an incredible universe, or an incredible creation, if you will. K I'm gonna put my two cents in now. Remember, God didn't write the bible. but through divine inspiration he inspired the writers what to write. They still had free will to write what they want. In my opinion, the bible is the best book out there. No word is wasted. Maybe God thinks we don't need to care about the dinosaurs. what we need to care about is the hsitory of our faith. Maybe God thought we didn't need to care who Peter's wife was (yes, he HAD one, it said in the bible his mother-in-law was ill). Maybe god thought... whatever he thought. He only told us what we needed to know. if we wanted to know more, we'd have to find that out ourselves or ask common sense. as i said, not a single word is wasted. P.S. Why is everyone's "the" spelled as "teh" today? Does anyone get the vibe that some christians can't even see the incredible creation thier god made? Yeah, follow that path. Never waver in what god tells you you need to know in a book written by man. I believe god is telling everyone something. The world is incredible place. Don't limit yourself to what a book sais. I don't know how I can really put this any clearer. Does anyone else feel the same way, or is what I'm saying futile because you guys really do believe you don't need to gaze past the pages of the good book? To me, ignoring how incredible the universe is is like shunning god's incredible creation and almighty power. (I can't believe that even acknowleging god and his infinite power dosen't at least make you guys stop and think, 'hey, maybe he has a point.') I'm not asking you guys to agree with me. I'm asking you to acknowlege the obvious - there is much more out there than the bible portrays, god made the universe and we shouldn't ignore it just because it's not in the confines of a book, no matter what that book it. Isn't it obvious to you guys, or am I just crazy? I'm crazy, right? Because I don't think that god should be limited in a book, that his creation is all around us and is infinitely beautiful? I must be crazy. -.-

Or mabby your just makeing up trash in order to prove a point? Actualy easter originated with lint, a 3 month sort of 'fast' typicly marked by the sacrifice of something we like, such as suger, meat, or even tv. It starts at the begining of the year and extends untill the second sunday of april, IE easter. This sacrifice is maintained to remind us daily of the sacrifice Jesus gave for us. Yes, I am a christian, and yes I know your going to try and kill me for defying your self proclaimed 'facts', and no, I don't care. You wana come after me? fine, I know 11 ways to kill a man with one motion of my bare hands...bring it on...lol, jk, but siriously, I would kick your butt. What an odd thing to say. And whats up with your sig, 'once an opinion is formed, the truth is irrelevant?' I suppose you use that to justify anything you want, yeah? What a load of crap.

I watched that too. :D All of that talk about murdur *duhn duhn* was pretty funny. (inside joke)

My question/point is: What is more important 4 teh followers of God, what teh Bible says or everything that teh Bible doesn't say? Science seems more liek a hobby to me rather then necessary 4 a life with God. My whole point is that god is infinite as is teh universe he created (possibly, aside from phisical limitations, I'd say teh knowlege we can gain is close to if not limitless). If you want to live your life by teh confines of a book, thats your choice, but there is so much else out there, so much of god's creation your shutting yourself off from because it's not necessary according to teh limitations of bible. People wrote teh bible, people have limitations, and therefore teh bible has limitations. teh bible conains nothing of modern science or amazing discoveries of teh universe which god made. You may argue that no one back then knew of these things... well god knew, didn't he? He created it! If teh bible contains none of these things which god created then it has gaps. It's not teh whole story, it's not teh whole truth and my best bet would be that god gave us science, as he made everything, right?. He gave us science to figure out what can't be put in a finite book. Again, live your life within teh confines if you want, it just seems so limited and shut off from god's creation to me. You speak a lot about limitations. I'm my opinion you are limiting God. Why wouldn't he be able to create a book containing what's most important in life? A book that is sufficient. Sure man wrote the book, but that just makes them a tool for God to use in order to say what he wants to say. The rest, that God chose to leave out of the Bible is not of the same importance. Instead people are free to gain as little or as much knowledge about the less important stuff out there. It doesn't make everything else pointless, it's just not as important as what the Bible says. We're not meant to be isolated with our Bibles. We are meant to live life focused on what's important. And what's most important in the Bible? Jesus. I'm limiting god? You're the one who feels the need to live his life by paper. God's creation is everywhere, god made everything and science is a gift to uncover the mysteries of his creation. This argument isn't really going anywhere so I'm done. I just don't agree that science can't be as important to our lives as the good book, that's all. It helps us in so many ways and if nothing else, gives us a picture of an incredible universe, or an incredible creation, if you will.

My question/point is: What is more important 4 teh followers of God, what teh Bible says or everything that teh Bible doesn't say? Science seems more liek a hobby to me rather then necessary 4 a life with God. My whole point is that god is infinite as is the universe he created (possibly, aside from phisical limitations, I'd say the knowlege we can gain is close to if not limitless). If you want to live your life by the confines of a book, thats your choice, but there is so much else out there, so much of god's creation you're shutting yourself off from because it's not necessary according to the limitations of bible. People wrote the bible, people have limitations, and therefore the bible has limitations. The bible conains nothing of modern science or amazing discoveries of the universe which god made. You may argue that no one back then knew of these things... well god knew, didn't he? He created it! If the bible contains none of these things which god created then it has gaps. It's not the whole story, it's not the whole truth and my best bet would be that god gave us science, as he made everything, right?. He gave us science to figure out what can't be put in a finite book. Again, live your life within the confines if you want, it just seems so limited and shut off from god's creation to me.