NukeMarine

Ah dueling scams. Most center around deception of the player via stats or duel set-up in one form or another. One easy cure for staking scams is for both persons have to approve duel options individuall - if player A selects one hand, no magic, no pots he sees yellow on those selections, then player B sees those selected as red which will turn green if he selects them (ie both player A and B have selected the same option). Changes to the selections removes the opponents approval. Another easy cure is "View Opponent" where you see his stats, items, and equipped items. Personally I think these two can solve most problems. Then it's just a matter of dealing with guys that think 70 ATK can wield the best weapons but 70 DEF must not be able to wear the best armor. PS: Anyone like to see wagering items included with Faruq's clan tools? How about a NPC combat arena (example, two Kalphite Queens vs three Dag Kings) where you can wager on the outcome?

But now Jagex (well MMG) can say "Unfortunately, 30% of those that voted were on newly created "throw away" accounts that weren't even played. These appear to have been "bot" spammed votes so will not count. As only 700k actual accounts voted, we'll not be re-instating free trade." Remember, this is the guy that's implying (flat out stating) that the 1.2 million votes from the "just put a name and click enter" were all legit votes, so getting a million votes with logged in accounts should be no problem. I didn't have a poor opinion of him until that post of his.

Doubtful, as all that does is effectively increase the soak %. Adding lifepoints automatically after taking damage is same as not taking the damage. Likely, it'll be a permanent boost to your max life points while you wear it. So, even if you take damage you can heal up to that new max. Would +300 be too much? That'll be like effectively having 129 Con if you're maxed out at 99 con.

His lieutenants are the Daganoth Kings. Good luck everyone. :mrgreen:

Wow, about time. When I suggested the God Wars dungeon back in Oct 2006, I originally said it should be five or more generals. Then again, I suggested it be in the wilderness with no limit PvP, which I'm glad they didn't do. Looking forward to see how the mechanics of Life Point Boosting Armor works. Great way to balance the offensive side of things and reduce or remove the 1 hit chance.

With Free trade on the table, there's actually no reason to have such a restriction. All it takes is two people working as buyer and seller, free trading between themselves to flip items. First, selling items should have no restrictions. However, having a limit on actual number of items you can buy within a certain timeline in the GE is cool. For example, it could 10,000 per four hours for consumables, 10 per 4 hours for high priced items (I don't have the real numbers). With free trade, Jagex is justified to making the GE even more strict on amounts you can purchase over a time frame. For example you can only get 1000 per hour of consumables, 100 for non-consumables, and even stronger limits based on the value of items: 100k (10/hour or 120/day), 500k (5/hour or 60/day) or 1 mill plus (1/hour or 12/day). So, if you REALLY, REALLY wanted 100 santas in less than a day then buy from players directly and don't use the GE.

Problem with that plan of buying/selling above market value is you have to do it in the GE with it's anonymous buyer/seller mechanic. I doubt any clan will risk that as it has a fatal flaw. Say Clan A wants to raise Santas for the 500 santas they have using 30b gp. As such, half of the clan puts up 50 hats for 500m while the other half slowly buys them for 500m. Well, because it's the GE, other players not involved in the process are also putting their hats up for sale. All it takes is for "jerks" that want to sell their Santa for 200m, 300m or even 500m to slowly whittle away at Clan A's capital. Clan A keeps buying Santas at 500m, but the gp is going to people outside the clan. Clan A has to resell those hats at a loss to make that capital back. Plus, assuming it actually could work, all you've done is changed a suggested number anyway. Just because Santas are averaging 200m does not mean I have to buy at 200m. And when you get players that get annoyed at waiting for a slow sell at 200m, they'll sell for less. Still, there's no reason not to have cool down periods for GE trades of high value items, in addition to limits on bulk sells. With free trade, if a player thinks that trading in the GE is too slow, they can do player trades. Win/Win.

There's no reason for graphs to disappear. The amounts traded and prices of items are based on completed trades within the GE. The GE server(s) can track that just as easy after removal of limits as before. Though Jagex can track average price of items outside the GE, I doubt that data will be made public. Mind you, that's assuming you care what the average price of an item happens to be in context of completed trades in a system that matches what person A wishes to buy with person B wishes to sell. A vast majority of trades will still occur in the GE even after free trade returns. That system is just too convenient for the average person. As such, you'll have hundreds of thousands of trades a day which is plenty of data to create really pretty graphs.

Remember though that Jagex had to take into account the ability to abuse GE mechanics to transfer wealth. Problems arise because now you have junk items and price manipulation clans created in response to those protective measures. With Free Trade coming back, many of the "safety" features can be removed, so there's no reason not to update average prices hourly. Hell, even that's more of a nicety since anyone can bid or sell at the price of their choosing. I like the GE mechanics better than an auction house. With the free trade GE, you get a better idea on what players think items are worth. I just wonder how the mechanics work in more detail. The best I think is person offering the lowest price for items sells first, but those items are distributed evenly among all the buyers. With respect to single items or items where there's too many buyers, it seems better for a random sell but more weight given to older bids.

its a lot of effort to turn it into a true auction house. I doubt Jagex will bother, although it would be nice. Would an auction house be better? I kind of like the current system, though how it works can be improved. Yeah, it's not transparent, but that allows a system where you get a great idea of overall player perception of item's worth. PS: I assume Shared Loot will change so that the players get the gp as if the item is sold for the average price. It'd be awesome shared loot worked with PvP (reduce risk of PJ even more).

Not sure where I lost you. The ability to get higher combat level has not made players more deadly. It's been the release of items that have not affected combat level that did that. True, some items you need a 70 or 80 range/atk/mage but others required no combat skills yet still make for a deadlier player. About herblore combat level, I've posted a number of times that IF combat level is affected, that Jagex release a number of lower level but untradeable potions. That way, you get herblore combat benefits from skill level 3+. Such potions can be something as simple as "Mixed STR + ATK" potion, or ability to mix Def with Range Potion, or a Super ATK potion that keeps the boosts for 5 minutes with no degrade, etc. Just toss those potions all along the herblore skill. As such, if you have any of these untradeable potions in your inventory your combat level gets boosted. To prevent abuse (shifting combat level while in the wild), just have it to where you can't mix untradeable potions in a PvP area.

I can see both sides of the argument, but I think it's a good idea not to allow untradeable pots in the wild, especially since herblore doesn't raise CB. Prayer and summoning both have advantages in combat that you can't trade, and they both raise CB. Does bring into question whether or not chaotic will be allowed though Here's the biggest reason why it's irrelevant that Overloads do or do not raise combat level - 2003 versus 2010. Ok, so two characters both with 99 in every combat trait minus summoning. Both are Level 126. So, if I pitted both of them against each other in the Wilderness the 2003 character will have an even match with the 2010 character, right? I mean, sure, the 2003 guy only has sharks, super sets, dragon chain and dragon long, protect prayers but he has that AWESOME level 126 combat. He can go toe to toe with a that other guy armed with curses, ancients, barrows, god swords, etc. So yeah, anyone complaining that overloads don't raise combat and shouldn't be allowed missed the bigger picture that ALL EQUIPMENT whether worn because of combat, quests or other skills will raise combat potential. For the longest time, the best weapons and armor was limited to level 60 (70 for range armor) so getting skills above that level did not accomplish much. Then came level 70 and better. All of a sudden guys that were level 126 became deadlier despite already being maxed out in stats. NEWSFLASH: The combat level system has been broken for years. Pardon me for not really caring about your CB level argument wrt herblore. However, it's easy enough for Jagex to modify herblore to affect the combat level. Then there's no reason to complain as players use millions on the best equipment, they'll use millions on the support combat skills. Just think of these support skills as benefits of respective gods. Saradomin is prayer, Zamorak is summoning, Guthix is herblore.

Make sure I got this right: The wild is supposed to be a dangerous place, and all noobs afraid of dying should stay out. However, Extremes and overloads make the wild too dangerous for pkers and should be banned. Hmm, so altering the mechanics of the game to ensure a enjoyment by the subset is ok. Anyway, since we're shifting subjects to virtual combat level, that's been suggested for years now. Consider, your "combat level" only applies if you have ZERO items in your inventory. Having a weapon increases your STR and ATK, having a bow and ammo increases your RNG, having food increases your HP, having pots can increase many items, having armor increases your DEF, etc, etc, etc. Trust me, a fully decked out player with 99's in all combat is MUCH, MUCH more deadly than a level 138 monster. However, a level 138 with ZERO items would be killed easily by a player with only 60's in skills yet fully equipped. This has been the major drive behind pures allowing them to have a much more powerful weapon at the expense of no armor yet still puts them at a virtually more higher combat potential. It's actually not that difficult for the game to display virtual levels. Heck, it can show three levels each for Mage/Range/Melee. Not sure how you can implement that in the way the Wilderness currently works ensuring only those within certain combat levels can fight each other. Personally, I think it can work with some effort to balance it out. Plus, imagine at the duel arena where you get to see your opponents virtual combat level which alters based on the dueling conditions. No more people pretending to only being able to wield rune or certain scams designed to restrict combat ability covertly.

I'm still of the opinion Herblore can easily be modified so that letting it add to the combat level is a fair situation. Again, just create 20 or so untradable combat potions spread throughout herblore to just the skill adding to combat. Then, just make a rule like summoning where not having a vial of any sort in your inventory lets herblore not affect your combat level. While they're at it, modify prayer to remove "protect from" but make it so that defense prayers allow for damage soaking. The protect prayers are great for PvM but they're still way overpowered for PvP. However, having a prayer that lowers the limit of damage soak to 19 or 17 or 15 while others can boost defense and the damage soak makes for more versatile prayer use. Ultimately, we can have a system where anyone can 1 hit an 99 hp if that moron has no prayer, defense, summoning or herblore of some sort protecting him. Get a guy with 99 in the combat support skills in addition to using the items those skills allow and he becomes a hard person to kill in one shot depending on his combat stance.

Anybody wonder if in reaction to free trade they'll lift the limits on the skill assist system? I think they should, because if they do not, it'll encourage more and more 'trust trades' after the 30k xp limit is reached. Before this was not a problem thanks to balanced trades, which won't be a road block after the change. Granted there may need to be changes done to the effigy system, in addition to other things not coming to mind.

I hope not. In fact, I'd like to see even stricter controls placed on mass purchases. With that, you can see the return of a real merchant class like before. The guys that bought small numbers of material so that they can resell it in bulk (with a slight mark-up). Remember when merchants actually served a real purpose? But removal of price windows will be the best thing for the GE.

Ah the Herblore overload issue rears it's head. Now comes the guys with silly statements like "let's keep RS proper separate from PvP". That, combined with many, many non-tradable quest items that offer combat benefits with minimum risk or loss will be a problem like pre free trade changes. First, it's very simple to allow Herblore to affect combat level just like Prayer and Summoning already do. However, to do that, Jagex needs to offer non-tradable combat benefits from Herblore potions from skill level 3+. Pretty sure players would love ability to merge pots, pots that give a 5 minute non-degradable boost, damage absorbing benefits, etc. Then if you don't want herblore to affect your combat level, just never have a flask of any kind in your possession similar to what is the case with Summoning. Hell, it'd be easy for Jagex to offer the option to deactivate prayer so it can't affect your combat level. Face it, being better at other skills and quests will give you access to items that improve combat. By bringing back the Wilderness to all of RS, it's silly to then say not to have major aspects of RS have an impact in the Wilderness. Balance is cool, but complete boycott is not.

But the only options should be nothing, free trade and wilderness. You can't have free trade without staking, or vice versa... It is pointless and just doesn't work. But lets face the facts, regardless of what options there are free trade and wilderness would always win. Yes, there would be a smaller majority, but by how much? 5% less? 10%? It would still be nowhere near enough to change the poll significantly. If you think it would be more than that you are kidding yourself. No, those aren't the only options. The biggest option is FREE TRADE. Without that, the rest just would not be feasible as they can skirt free trade. Why does the Wilderness for PvP need to be on every world? Why do the PvP servers need to be removed? Why do the Revenants need to be relocated? Free trade is the key, but the other stuff is optional and not covered with a simple yes/no poll. By the way, I think you'll find most want free trade. A MUCH SMALLER number care about the Wilderness returning to PvP. There's plenty of existing polls about the number of players that PvP that can determine that, though I'd prefer another poll to be sure.

You're hilarious. The 90% is in favor of free trade- wilderness on every world is more like an idiot rider attached to a good bill. I've been playing since 2001, so... This ^ Jagex was always bad with polls, but both of these polls were noticeably bad. You can have free trade without the wilderness of old (and staking), however you cannot have the wilderness of old (and staking) without free trade. When Jagex did "Phase 2" they should have given an option of 1. no free trade; 2. free trade +staking, 3. free trade +staking +wilderness. Then at least we'd have a good idea of how much people wanted free trade and how many wanted the wilderness back to the way it was. Actually, what is the best way to do a poll? I think a "Select all you would like to return" sort of poll is best. 1. Free Trade 2. No limit bids GE 3. Unlimited Staking 4. PvP Wilderness Area on all worlds 5. PvP Worlds with "keep what you kill" etc. Then it's a matter of listing possibilities and seeing what actual accounts think. PLUS: Jagex can show the results between member and non-member accounts.

I'm sure it'll be like now where only trades completed on the Grand Exchange will affect average prices. P2P trades will show the price indicator at the bottom, but that trade you make has no impact on the item. However, I can see Jagex having a simple algorithm to allow P2P trades to affect average price for high priced items trade without gp. They just have to account for silly stuff like the above from affecting the price. That's not too hard as you just let trades further and further outside the average to have less weight on the impact of the price. On that subject, it'll be great for ALL ITEMS to be bought and sold on the GE again. Really cheap items like burnt fish, chef's hat, etc were removed as there was a minor exploit that allowed wealth transfer on GE. I think it dealt with selling 1 million chef hats for 1 gp, then the next player reselling them all for 2 gp. Each trade changed 1 mill gp in wealth with little risk as the demand for bulk chef hats (or burnt fish) was zero (apologies if this was the wrong exploit). However, now, there's no reason to not have anything banned from the GE no matter how trivial.

That you were the victim of a rule breaker and came to terms with it does not make that any less of a rule break. I've been bit a couple of times when the loss was minimal, but it still teed me off. I made darn sure to report those I didn't fall for (happened way too often as a unid merchant). These weren't positive learning experiences and are not experiences I'd encourage others to enjoy. That said, I'm still for free trade and am happy with all the little warnings people people get. If you don't notice a big exclamation, or that you're paying millions for something worth 10 gp then my pity is limited. Not so much that I say the victim deserves it, but that jagex did all it reasonably could short of cutting off your ability to trade at all. The person breaking the rule still needs to be reported. As for being hacked, something tells me that's more a "giving friend my log in info" or downloading a bot program. Of course, with free trade coming back, such tactics will make a come back. Definitely an issue to consider. PS: You're using a different example of luring. Chasing bait in a PK situation is legitimate. The other situation with luring had to deal with tricking players into the wilderness, usually with trades. This eventually led to the "ditch". Of course theres the DK luring also. Problem was, people hear luring is illegal (wrt tricking people into the wilderness) and thought that meant other forms of luring were wrong (which they were not).

Plus the return of the wage slaves ..... I mean w16 airs will be awesome. I remember having an addy smelting company that went really well at the Blast Furnace that became all be impossible with trade limits. I even like the idea of the Wilderness so long as it has real PKrs (guys actually risking items to make real kills), but sadly we'll just see the 1 itemer rushers all over the place. Assuming the Wilderness comes back on all worlds, what are some legitimate changes to before should be made? Consider all the experiments on PvP and Bounty Worlds to help this case. Here's one brought about with auto-skulling on PvP: Remove item protect prayer. EVERYONE saves one item, but non-skulled saves four items. Here's another brought about from EP penalties on teleporting: NO teleporting in the wilderness if skulled. Here's an oldie but goodie to stop 1 itemers: To see player kill drops, you must be risking at least 76k gp.

I'm all for free trade, and I'm all for Jagex tracking the real value of items and I'm for the Wilderness returning for the most part. However, I still don't get how Jagex is going to stop RWT enough to discourage the use of credit card fraud to make fake accounts. Are we going to start seeing enormous implementation of this fabled anti-cheating system? We know they're starting to reset stats of people using skill bots, but that's an internal matter. Do they actually believe they are now capable of noticing bot or sweat shop farming at the earliest stages that'll discourage organized crime from attempting this on RS?

It's very possible that GE flipping will be made substantially easier with free trade. Imagine...no more volume limits or 4 hour buy/sell limit. You could leave a buy offer at the low end of an item's spread then a sell offer at the opposite end and watch them fill simultaneously. Or it might not work like that at all and make flipping harder, who knows. I think by free trade they meant the way it used to be. No trade limits between players. The GE didn't exist when free trade existed. Yeah, I think the GE will still have volume limits, just no more price windows. If you want to buy large bulk, you can still do player to player trades.

Are you the Nuke Marine that used to post long detailed posts on RSOF? I think you are describing more of an auction aspect to the GE. I agree with the idea of setting a price range that your item can sell for that makes the most sense. I predict that useless junk will settle down at the 1gp or so mark. Merching clans will be devestated, old style RS merch takes much more thought then manipulating prices through an artificial system. I disagree that there should not be limits on GE bids. I think realistic limits are still needed maybe 100k of something vs the 100 allowed currently. There is so much pure cash held by many accounts in this game, that having unlimited GE trade limits won't be practical. If a gravestone is destroyed before someone returns outside of wildy then it should be lootable. Also the wildy needs to be no rules besides the old one where you can't teleport out after level 20 wild. No honour pker's aren't worth killing anyhow they rarely carry that many valuables. I wonder if old pking clans will be resurrected. Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I'm the same guy. Since I've played back before and after the trading changes, this peaked my interest a lot. About my "desires" if changes come about, I didn't fully express them so it's easy to misinterpret a few things or even the main reason for it. I'm for the removal of price limits (floors and ceilings) on all items. If they include "decimal bids" then the price of some items can drop even farther like 0.01 gp for truly useless items. For bidding, it would be like it is now, the seller sets his price and that's the price for his item. The buyer puts in the price he's willing to pay, and gets the cheapest offer for that item that's below his price. Want to sell that candle for 2 billion, go for it. Want to offer to buy a mask of 500 gp, go for it. Yeah, it opens a way trade cash, but who cares with free trade back. Once you put "reasonable limits" on prices, you find out quickly that people's opinion of reasonable don't mesh. However, like you I do like the restrictions on how many items you can buy over a small amount of time. Yeah, it's annoying when a player wants to buy a 99 skill right then and there but it's been the main way to manipulate prices. It still allows for merchanting, and clans which I'm cool with. On the gravestone, I'm sorry, but let it stay keep what you kill. If players can "loot" gravestones, then it brings back problems that don't benefit gameplay and encourages exploiting the environment. Hell, I'd go one step further and even in the Wilderness the items are only visible to the killer and the killed and will not appear to anyone else even after a minute (exceptions for clans and friends similar using loot share programming). It helps limit the benefit of PJing and certain scams. About additional rules for the Wilderness we're just going to have to disagree. It's not about my desire for "Honor PKing". It's more to do with imbalance to PvP that early, early aspects of Runescape hurts. Protect Prayer, 3 Item, Protect Item, and Teleporting are great tools to avoid getting PK'd and reduce the risk of it. However, successfully PK'ing a PKer difficult. That these encourage negative (but fun) behavior because it mitigates the risk tells me these aspects need to be modified. Plus, I love the idea of PKrs being able to attack any other PKer anywhere in the wild. Heck, it'd be cool if "red skull" guys can attack each other OUTSIDE the wilderness (shades of my PK anywhere suggestion which has merit again) with similar level restrictions of current PK worlds. Actually, would players like that? A way to allow PK anywhere, but also allows normal players to opt out on the same server. Those that opt out still are at risk of attack in the wilderness of course.