NukeMarine

Well, today will (edit: should) be the first day a skill is at 100 legitimately (non-boosted). I know there's some glitched screen shots of every skill at 120 but this is interesting none-the-less. So, think the top players are going to grind it out to 100 million xp for the level 120 or call it quits when it takes 5 mill xp+ ie 100 hours just to get the next level.

You lose in the logic department only because Dungeoneering is the only skill that goes above 99. If this guy continues with the skill he'll always be on top cause when everyone else is reaching 99 he's at 102 or 103. When they're at 104 he's likely at 107. If he keeps at dungeoneering (though it looks like he stopped), he'll have a top spot for long time to come. Then again, if Dng 2.0 allows prestige up to 60 then it's likely to see a few 120's in this game three months after that release.

I wouldn't mind seeing jagex modify the Herblore skill to justify it affecting the combat level. The easiest way of course is to create 20 or so "untradeable" potions (spread throughout the skill every 5 levels or so) that boost combat stats in some useful way. Then, anybody that has these untradeable vials in their inventory would have their combat level affected. Imagine a Level 10 Boost Str potion that adds 4% to your strength but lasts for 5 minutes without reducing or a Level 70 potion that can combine potions into a single superset vial. Barring that, seems summoning is best, followed by prayer, then herblore.

I detailed some binding ideas on this thread: Quick find code: 149-150-497-60791177 Here's the more lengthy synopsis though: Players can bind any number of items. Any item above the free binding (which maxes out at 4 for level 120) gets an experience penalty at the end of the dungeon. This is determined by the Tier level of all the extra items bound. Ex: A level 50 can bind two items for free. She has Primal 1h sword (T 11), Primal shield (T 11), Primal helm (T 11), Gorgonite chest (T 10), Gorgonite legs (T 10), Primal boots (T 11), Primal gloves (T11). She binds all the items. Now, what is her penalty? For now, we'll keep it simple and say the Tier % penalty is equal to twice the Tier level of the item modified by the type of item (Tier 5 is 10% penalty, Tier 10 is 20%, etc.). Smaller items such as helms, gloves and boots give smaller penalties based roughly on the number of ore/leather/cloth needed to make an item. 2h Weapon (not bows), Chest = full Tier% penalty 1h Weapon, bows, Shield/Legs = 3/5 Tier% penalty Helmet = 2/5 Tier% penalty Gloves, Boots = 1/5 Tier% penalty Here's her penalties then: Primal 1h and Primal shield are both 13.2% each (3/5 of the 22% penaly); Primal helm is 8.8% (2/5 of the 22% penaly); Gorgonite chest is 20% (5/5 of the 20% penalty); Gorgonite legs is 12% (3/5 of the 20% penalty); Primal boots and gloves are 4.4% each (1/5 of the 22% penalty). She's not penalized on the two highest percentages (the 20% and one of the 13.2%) due to her level 50 dungeoneering. So, her actual penalty is 13.2+8.8+12+4.4+4.4 which is 42.8%. It may seem a bit complicated, but I think it becomes second nature very quickly. Higher level, more powerful items penalize you more. You have the option to bind anything you like, but the penalty is there to stop it from being abused. So, do you take the experience hit but go through the dungeons faster, or gather your supplies as you go along slowing you down a bit. I do like the idea of boss drops having a "dungeon counter" where you can keep it for a certain number of dungeons even without binding it. Something tells me that it'd be a bit too complicated to implement.

It's because of this that I'm suggesting they allow players to bind all the items they want, but they get an XP penalty equal to the sum of the Tier levels of the equipment (or maybe a fraction of that if it's small item like a glove or helm). It replicates the XP loss when one does a complexity level 1 through 3. A level 50 player will bind a weapon and a chest, but will he want to bind that Tier 11 skirt for an 11% penalty on XP? Maybe, maybe not. If they allowed that, they could also give tier levels to herb seeds and charms allow players to bind up to five of them. Would you bind 5 crimson charms or 5 featherfoils for a 7% penalty? Or Jagex can just keep it as it is, and players get a primal glove drop that they just as quickly drop.

Indeed, seeing how slow this is, I doubt many will use it outside of binding a weapon, chest armor (at level 50), and poisoned arrows. The dungeoneering equivalent of low level merchanting. Wonder if players will "sell" their services to help players get level 10 bound weapons and arrows though?

Yep, I think salve eels were over 200 xp in thebeginning; Just another example of just how poorly integrated Dung is to the rest of the game. Many pages ago, training of the other skills was one of the cool points about Dung. HA FREAKING HA. The developers keep finding new ways to distance Dung from the rest of RS. I fully expect all the runes to be renamed in Dung 2.0, and for any skill you train in the hole other that Dung to give negative XP. /sarcasm To be fair, it's easy to see Jagex would like Dungeoneering to be easier if you HAVE the other skills, not to be the place to train the other skills. What they're likely doing is monitoring XP gain in all other skills while in the dungeon. If something pops up as leveling pretty high in a dungeon, they'll investigate and see if it's unbalanced. As time goes on, expect to see XP nerfed as players unintentionally reveal to Jagex the exploits. PS: I really like the Tier level for the fires. That's something Jagex should implement with firemaking skill in real Runescape. I'd cook on a Magic log if it reduced my shark burn rates at least 2 per load.

Expect it to be nerfed soon. I doubt it counts as a bug exploit, but I also doubt Jagex wants people able to spend a little time in one dungeon making enough cash to max out their bound weapons. That's the only real benefit to infinite cash in dungeoneering (well, loads of "free" cooking, crafting and smithing experience on top of it but that's just tediously slow).

Seems easy enough to integrate. Resources can be lost due difficulty of the resource, level of your own skill, and the item you use. Ore: 6 max, based off pick and mining Log: 6 max, based off axe and woodcutting Flax: 6 max, based off farming Herbs: 6 max, based off farming Fish: 10 max, based off fishing Hides: 6 max, based off trap and hunting Jagex just needs to be sure to warn us when we lose resources like it does with ores. Speaking of which, if Jagex integrates dungeoneering around RS, it's not a stretch to put similar resources like the above through other dungeons. It can be tier based, where your Dng level allows you to see/utilize it. It'll still be RS normal resources (lobsters Tier 4, yew Tier 4, adamantite Tier 5, etc.), tied to the individual player (like the shops are now), with limited resources that respawn slowly (say like once every hour per tier level).

About the time to complete Solo: If it helps, draw or print out a largish 4x4 card with connecting squares for doors, mark resources and door requirements. Seems overkill to me, but can be useful if you get a layout with a lot of back and forth running. Hopefully Jagex creates an automap that'll post room resources and doors as you find them. Like others, I go through the small on solo in about 15 to 20 minutes. The longest part is setting up for a boss that's mage or range specific (buying cloths and wood to make the armor/weapon). Which is exactly why so many people hate slayer, right? Oh wait. People love slayer. The only thing that makes you better at slayer is outside skills (combats) and the only thing a higher slayer level lets you do is more slayer. Yeah. Its clear to me. Crystal clear. Nobody enjoys this type of a skill :unsure: :rolleyes: Wow, you took my post, which in no way insinuated people hated Dungeoneering, then applied that strawman to slayer. Well played sir, well played. I'm fairly sure the tone of my posts toward Dungeoneering has been mainly positive. I will post constructive critique and defend them though. It's true slayer and hunter and now Dungeoneering seem to be the least integrated skills in the rest of Runescape. At least dungeoneering has saving grace of integrating other skills (well, all the skills) into itself. What Qeltar points out is that this skill can be integrated into all the other dungeons of Runescape. What I added was that it'd be cool if a high level in dungeoneering can give you access to cooler ways to train or use other skills in other dungeons. Think about Hunter, would it had been cool if you could use the hunter skill on all types of monsters throughout runescape and not just those at hunting grounds? Would anyone had loved a way to "trap" unicorns or hobgoblins or spiders getting useful secondaries for herblore or hides for crafting while using a non-combat skill? That's integrating the skill into the rest of Runescape. Plus, I don't think you need many other skills to help improve hunting so the rest of Runescape is not integrated well into Hunting.

Once Qeltar began posting some legitimate solutions, the tone of the discussion changed. Arguing about whether it's a mini-game is moot: It is a mini-game. Arguing about whether it's a Runescape skill moot: It is a Runescape skill. It's a part of the game, and you have to utilize the experience point system to improve at it. Now, how can Jagex make it a more enjoyable part of the game? Remove it entirely like IHL seems to say every post? That gets us nowhere. Add some tangible benefits throughout the Runescape game like Qeltar posted? Now we're talking. It would be cool if higher dungeoneering let's us get more tangible benefits in other dungeons around Runescape. Things that make playing in these dungeons more cool. 50 Dungeon - At the Steel Dragon cave on Karamaja, your character notices that an outcropping of rocks can be used as an Anvil. 70 Dungeon - At the lava pool by the Blue Dragons, your character notices that he can tan dragon hides there. 30 - ?? Dungeon - In certain dungeons, your character notices that there are places where you can plant seeds of various types. In other words, Dungeoneering is a "skill/mini-game" that is enhanced by being high level in other skills. Likewise, having a high dungeoneering should benefit your other skills in the other dungeons around Runescape. Qeltar really hit the nail on the head with that one.

Hopefully when Dungeoneering 2.0 gets released in the not too near future, they give players the option to sell back these items (fully charged mind you) so that they can get likely better items. Also, do these items have a "destroy" option, and if so what does it say? It'd be kind of cool if these can be retrieved if lost, almost making them worth buying. Course that'd likely make them a no-no on PvP worlds.

This has probably been asked about already, but: Why can't Jagex put a "Base XP" counter on the screen as we're playing through the dungeon? It's more encouraging to see what XP you can expect as you play and see what's getting you experience and what isn't. Also, assuming you get 1/6th base XP in event of quitting the floor, players can at least know what they're losing out on. Would you enjoy this "skill" better if you didn't have to wait 45 minutes to tell what your experience actually is?

I'm wondering is: Can you buy and use more than one Coal Bag. Imagine 12 of those in your inventory. By the way, I'm guessing you're limited to one gem and coal bag, and if you do get more than 1 then they'll all register the same count (much like the dung necklace .... I forgot we had a dung necklace)

That's terrible, for prestige 35, its around 1 hour 15 minutes for 45-54k xp do large 5 man it's alot better Now I'm wondering how prestige is determined. My guess is, it's a multiplier only. So, that means how does the "base XP" of a dungeon get determined? Is it solely based on the number of rooms you enter? Is it based on the skill level of the various rooms, based off your team's skill level. Something tells me that the only way to get a good gauge on what experience a typical floor will give can only be determined if someone does the following: 1. Start off at Prestige 0, best as a team but simple difficulty. 2. Complete each floor and as many rooms as you can. Note the number of rooms you can actually enter. 3. Note the Prestige and Floor base XP. Note it for ALL members of the team. 4. See if there's a correlation. Then again, it could be each individual room is determined by what's needed to enter it ie it's the doors that are creating the the XP in all of this. If that's the case, this will get a lot more complicated. Reason being, are guardian door XP based off the levels of the guardian? Are skill door XP based off the skill level of the door? Are challenge door XP (not skill level based) just determined by the challenge? Course with that, you get to find out what the "Boss Exit Door" xp happens to be. Seeing you get a 1/6th penalty for not exiting a dungeon, that may be the highest XP door. So, you get a Floor or Prestige multiplier, that's multiplied against the XP of any door on that dungeon you can open. Then there's any mulitplier at the end that offer minor boosts.

Finally, some reasonable complaints about Dungeoneering as a skill (they've been there, but usually people glued on to the "it's a mini-game" point). Me thinks Jagex needs a bit more clarity on Prestige as it's generating a lot of valid heat. First off, just getting the prestige system number at it's max took some lucid posts on here to clear up. Now, it's apparent that it's tied not only to your number, but to the dungeon and it's rooms. That's ticking people off cause we see "Bonus Room" percentage and think that's what's the final impact on our XP. Prestige is overly complicated, but it looks like it's a reward geared toward the level of dungeon you as a player cause to be generated. High level players playing on a high level dungeon, even if it's on Floor 1, will get enourmous XP from Prestige should they do (or at least can do) bonus rooms. Has there been any headway is figuring out how Prestige stacks up against Dungeon Floor, Player Level, Team Level, Number of Players, and room completion? Somehow, I think it'll turn out to be that high skill level players advance is this skill will level faster than low skill level players (yes, pures fall into this category). Like someone posted earlier, it could be a skill that benefits from all your other skills. I'd liken that more to Slayer that levels faster more from having higher combat than a higher skill level in Slayer. Maybe it's the Prestige system that's doing it. Eh, too many maybes.

It's a complaint because this shows every sign of being a recycling job, and not even one very well done at that. They had this game they didn't want to launch separately, and they didn't want to put in the effort it would have taken to make a real skill, so they shoehorned this thing into RS. If they had taken a few more months and done the job properly, it could have been really good. The whole thing smells of a half-assed effort. Again, they ADMITTED, before it even got released that it was adapted. You're acting like it's some grand secret. It doesn't take much to tell there was a lot of effort put into this update. I'd also be a moron to claim there's nothing wrong with it either. I have a nice wall here I could talk to instead -- more convenient and would yield the same results. I don't mind them putting in a skill I don't like.. heck, there are many I don't like right now. But this isn't a skill at all, and anyone who approaches the matter honestly will see that. I doubt anyone could list even three major things that make this a skill if SC and BA are not. Yeah, most of anything posted there is ignored. Hopefully with the forum shake-up they'll take some sage advice more frequently. You offer good advice at times, and your posts on the main forum a few years back brought a lot of attention from players. But yeah, it is brick wall most of the time. Stealing Creation and Barbarian Assault could easily be adapted into the skill system. Heck, Mobilizing armies could have done this.The skill SYSTEM is not about skills in the real world. The skill system as designed by Jagex is an exponential leveling system utilizing the Skinner box (leveling brings awards, however it takes more effort to level each time). Looking at the effort put into Dungeoneering, I think they adapted the system in a very nice and enjoyable way. Yeah, hopefully they find ways to integrate it into other areas of the game. PS: The only skill I consider a failure thus far (outside of firemaking) is Hunting. There's so much potential to that skill that's been wasted. Now it's just used for Chinchompas and occasional implings.

I think NukeMarie was actually trying to make that same point. Some decisions are arbitrary, and it is part of the game design. Yeah, I meant that as a reply to Qeltar. I added his name to my post. I'm not going to get all hung up that Jagex messed up on some items. So long as they listen to feedback and make reasonable changes then I'm cool with how they do business. It is, like you said, a game so should be fun above and beyond anything else (especially realism).

Qeltar, There's all sorts of problems with how Jagex approaches any number of skills. -Why is Constitution or Hitpoints leveled by doing damage to a monster, shouldn't it be leveled by healing yourself with food? -Why is Defense leveled with doing damage to a monster, should it be leveled by avoiding hits from a monster? -What does the end of an agility course have to do with so much experience? -What does the metal of a weapon have to do with whether I can hold it in my hand? -Why can I hunt a chinchompa in a controlled area, but not a bear or a wolf or a unicorn? Let's not forget that Jagex adapted skills over time to at least make them sort of useful. Agility and Firemaking were almost entirely useless. Prayer had no real purpose past the big three for a long time, and those were horribly overpowered for their benefit (100%/50% reduction of damage). Let's not forget level 40 armor was the norm (except for level 70 ranged black) until barrows. As far as Dungeoneering being a mini-game: Jagex tells you in the development diaries it started out as a mini-game not even in the Runescape game. Yes it's a mini-game that's adapted to use the skill system, why is that even a complaint. Slayer is a mini-game that does the same thing. So yeah, Jagex messed up a new skill. Big deal, it's always messed up skills even when it tweaked them. So Dungeoneering is a mini-game. Big deal, so is Slayer, Hunter and Agility in how they're trained. So Dungeoneering is closed off. Big deal, so is Farming and Construction. Why not head over to the Dungeoneering feedback and post lucid suggestions about improving the minigame/skill. I posted a few (allow binding of any number of items, but the item's tier level is an XP penalty; Spend tokens on gaining XP in all skill; reduce cost to make arrows; better random team organizer) which may or may not get accepted. Hell, my idea for God Wars dungeon apparently went over real well in the last two years, so Jagex has no problem adapting player feedback. Just don't be mad when they don't accept it either.

Well, I think Jagex is "kind of" fibbing on this. However, if you take an 8x8 dungeon (the large size dungeons), and multiply that by 7x5 (35 as that's the number of floors) you get a 56x40 room Dungeon. Obviously, that's a huge layout for a team of five guys starting from floor 1 to floor 35 to travel through. It may even be bigger than 60 Faladors.

Isn't that evidence to how slow the skill levels? Out of interest, one week after the release of Summoning, Hunter, Construction, Farming and Slayer what were the number of people with greater than 100k XP? If they were all greater than 7000 then I could accept your theory as valid. I thought that you were a family guy over 30, and you're using poor arguments like this? Where's the Qeltar of old that developed a following with well thought out treatise of various Runescape knowledge.

Skill and key icons would be nice, but I think it should only appear on the guided mode. So, you can choose to sacrifice a bit of EXP for a more convenient map. There shouldn't be experience loss for giving players something they can get in third party program. All it needs is a quick legend telling what are the resources (just like it marks the boss and where other players are at) in addition what type of lock is on the door. This is something very simple to program (right click, add room, right click, add key, right click, add resources, right click, add boss, etc.) The whole point of the guided mode is to provide convenience at the cost of slight XP loss. Obviously something that makes your trip go much faster and easier goes here. It's not a matter of how easy it is to create such a legend. So you either use the guided mode for convenience, or learn to spread your team out and communicate. If you're soloing, use the orb of oculus. No, guided mode is giving you info that you haven't found out on your own yet, mainly the straight path to the boss. Now that saves time and is something a third party program cannot do. Being penalized for using something that you could use outside of the Runescape program is silly and only encourages use of a 3rd party program. The map is just a quick reference of what you already found. Including extra info is not a bad thing and certainly not worth an XP penalty..

Skill and key icons would be nice, but I think it should only appear on the guided mode. So, you can choose to sacrifice a bit of EXP for a more convenient map. There shouldn't be experience loss for giving players something they can get in third party program. All it needs is a quick legend telling what are the resources (just like it marks the boss and where other players are at) in addition what type of lock is on the door. This is something very simple to program (right click, add room, right click, add key, right click, add resources, right click, add boss, etc.)

For me, it's only going to be 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 3:2, 4:2 or 5:3. There's no way I'm going to waste all that time just to be left high and dry at a five man boss.

Out of interest: Are there groups that form a real combat triangle team: mage (bind staff and runes), range (bind bow and arrows), and melee (bind weapon and maybe runes or arrows). It would seem a team like this could muscle their way through a 3:1 or 3:2 dungeon, with the forgotten mages/rangers/warriors providing most of the armor. Seems this is how Jagex wants it set up, seeing the strict limitations on binding but easy way one can "make" the best armor if you have the cash.