NukeMarine

What Jagex will probably do in retaliation of the Morgan Javelin suggestion on this thread is: A: Stackable items/perishable items do count toward EP. This messes up rangers and mages, so likely not a good solution or B: In PvP fights, arrows/missiles are visible to everyone. Messes with rangers, but it's fair since if you did throw something at someone they should be able to keep it. If they go with B, people trying the Morgan Javelin trick lose their javelin while their opponent gets a javelin and loses 0 EP since they killed someone not carrying enough.

First, the +1 BH world you have to purposefully go to. If one thinks it sucks, then just like the PvP worlds, just avoid them. Even those using Brawlers on BH world will still be risking 75k gp most likely if they want to add EP while they train, making them legit targets. Now, to solve the teleporting problems. 1. Give rangers a bow and/or arrow (via special) that can teleblock. If range beats mage, why should a level 25 teleport spell beat a level 80 dark bow? 2. Give mages a telefollow spell. Certainly someone with 85 magic should have a spell that can follow the person that teleported away with a level 25 spell?

Very useful posts by the powers that be. The first post is a good explanation as for the why's (and again brings up this has been a long term problem in PvP). In addition, it adds a bit about the "death pot" which means the game realizes when you're losing (and hopefully causing others to lose) large amounts of wealth in PvP. I like this. The second post helps quells the problems with uber items. Hopefully those that dumped Claws and AGS early on buy them back in anticipation of this update. That the uber weapon will ALWAYS save without accidentally running out of prayer, or double clicking accidents will make these even safer weapons to use than before. The third post explains the problems with summoning icon. Not much for or against this. Makes sense though. I still contend that Mages and Rangers get the short end here with second post. Jagex should change it so the wealth of a item block is counted. So if you put 30 dragon arrows in your inventory, it's 150k gp for saving on death, and not just 3 arrows. Basically, stacked items as a stack can be saved on death if its value is high enough (1000 law runes is 200k and all 1000 will be saved above a rune kite, while 10 laws runes is only 2k gp and won't save above rune kite.).

Considering there's a Number by it (isn't 99 in the picture), it has to have something that changes and is of use to you to know. Oh I know, it's your character's Honor rating. Kill or steal from good NPC's it goes down, kill or steal from bad NPC's it goes up. Honor affects how the Runescape NPC's reacts to you. PS: Think Jagex will make the World Map icon a freaking right click option? Or is there a way to disable that that I didn't read about? PPS: Yeah, it's not honor or a light bulb or sailing. It's your phase point. Jagex is making it to where you can go to a secondary realm of runescape for limited time, and that's your phase count. PPPS: Yep, BS too.

The next question will be: Will it teleport you to that area even if the items have not refreshed yet (Mage Trees and Runite being most obvious)? Most likely the answer will be yes, but really only applies to runite and Mage trees. Next Question: Will it teleport to areas you've not been given permission to go via quests or levels or such? Most likely answer is no, so Runite is limited to the wilderness spots which is not necessarily a bad thing. Next Question: If you're already in an area with that resource, will the item teleport BACK to that same location, or purposely choose another. Hopefully the answer is go to another location, but likely it's random. May turn out to be a useful teleport item for the rarer resources as it'll be fairly consistent.

The amount being risked is irrelevant. It can be 100k and people will still do the 26k trick cause they're not losing 75k gp when they're building up EP. You have to make a way that there's a reasonably good chance that players will lose 75k gp at a minimum if they try to earn EP. Disabling Teleport is one way, but on PvP worlds that's a BIG annoyance to inflict on players. It's doable, but there'd be an outcry about it. (PS I think it's a good idea). Another is some way to prevent teleporting while in combat BESIDES teleblock. If you can teleport at level 25, then people that low should be able to stop you from teleporting and not a level 85 mage. I still think another is to let you easily find players that are building EP, then get some sort of reward for killing them. In addition, Jagex should track how much cash/items are being lost to player kills on PvP worlds. It should balance rewards against that to prevent inflation.

Low-key = Loki The Norse Gods have come to Runescape. All hail Thor, the god of thunder and lightning!!!

Or at least a spell that "tracks" the person after he teleports and just tells you where is he ... its up to you to follow him then (and me it better .. something like vengeance , you can activate it and use it .. later) We're splitting hairs at that point. The main thing is remove this big safety net called teleporting without forcing players into level 20 wilderness and without removing teleporting in PvP worlds (no real benefit to teleport in BH worlds).

Step back and realize the big problem: Nobody is actually "risking" 75k while they're standing around getting EP. If constantly getting EP were an actual risk, would the system be broken? How would you change the game so that someone that steps into a Hot Zone risking 75K gp actually has a good chance to lose it if the player's not prepared. In addition, the risk must come from players and not the game. Create that situation, and you fix this 26k problem. Seriously, would any of you moan if the person that built up 100 EP had lost 750k gp due to being killed 10 times while trying to achieve it?

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all The above article kind of relates to this. It deals with playing the game within the rules that the game allows, but not how everyone else wants you to do it. Some quotes: Hey!!! No Fair!!! You wanted to win more than I did!!! Compromise: The fine art of cutting a cake so that everyone thinks they're getting the biggest piece. Honor: Anything that gives me an advantage Dishonorable: Anything that gives you the advantage Personally, I think at the very least Jagex should create a spell called "Tele-follow". If you're fighting a person in combat and they teleport away, this spell lets you go to their last teleport location (so long as you have the levels and quests to go there) so long as you cast it within 10 seconds of combat. This removes the one unfair aspect of Player v Player where a level 25 spell essentially makes you safe almost anywhere. Basically, don't complain about honor. Your opponent is in it to win within the rules of the system. If you don't like it, don't play with him.

There's some things that seem simple, but you have to worry about unintended consequences. 1. Fights lasting over 5 minutes with the same opponent stops the timer. This should be obvious. Now, what really is needed is some reason to encourage PKers to kill those training with 75k. 2. Anyone risking 75k and has built up at least 25% potential shows up on the radar as a white X instead of a dot. Well, that's great to point out easy targets. Now, why bother killing easy targets when there's the 26k trick which means willing victims. 3. If the target is not one of your last XX victims, you get 75k value at a minimum. I think 30 is a reasonable number for recent victims. Please note, this applies to getting the minimum 75k value regardless of your drop potential. Perhaps let the radar show targets that have 75k+ gp, 25%+ drop potential, and not a recent victim as a white X. Finally, you need to find targets that are in out of the way areas. Maybe allow a bracelet that puts an arrow on the radar guiding to nearest potential target. It seems simple, people are supposed to be RISKING 75k gp in order to increase drop potential. Now, if nobody is getting killed or the likelyhood is low then there's no risk ie free money. Now, I'm not active in PK worlds, so I don't know what it's like to train in hot zone. However, I'm pretty sure it'll be annoying if pkers are coming by to kill you once you put up 25% potential. So, what are the best ways to attract killers to those risking 75k?

There's one flaw in that: There was no REASONABLE risk of dying. See, in RS, there are set patterns you can follow to keep your character from dying in most situations. That includes Boss areas and PvP areas. It's called training, skills, and knowledge of the system combined with appropriate equipment. In addition, armed with high speed modem instead of a quirky dial-up increases the safety even more. Add on to that team mates that'll bless tombstones reduces chance of losing anything of value to almost zero. This bug was not isolated to a single server (like Falador Massacre), or single area (Juna cave's insta death). This thing went anywhere on all servers. Many, who otherwise would not reasonably die, did die and lost a lot of equipment that represents invested REAL WORLD TIME. Now, I don't know about you, but an hour of my time is 20 dollars (yeah, I'm over paid). I'm picky with how I waste it. If anything warrants a rollback, this thing looks like a top contender.

It's very, very simple: You have to have XX minutes in the game to claim zeal. I think 10 minutes is fair here. Yeah, you can join afterwards to help out your team mates, but you don't get zeal. Switching sides will reset the counter. In Castlewars, it was annoying but the only benefit was decorative armor. Here, you're getting faster XP than other players ie exploit abuse. It's not bug abuse as you're doing what the game allows, but this is exploiting the system. As the video shows, it's bad enough that it'll ruin the enjoyment of the game. Anyway, simple fix with no impact on those that play within the spirit of the game.

Although it contradicts what I read on the RSOF** some time ago, here's my theory: Like langer says, you have an attack number based off your attack skill and every boost and bonus. Now, it's my theory that the bonus are multipliers of your base attack and boosts. Anyway, a 130 atk (super atk + prayer) is boosted 80% with a Godsword giving 234 number. Defense works the same way, with armor multiplying your natural defense and boosts. Let's say you also get a 234. The success of attack is a number rolled 0 to (Defense number + Attack number). In the above example that's a random number from 0 to 468. Anything above 234 in that "roll" means a successful attack. It stands to reason that lower defense or higher attacks means better chance "to hit". When you actually hit, then the game just calculates a random number based off your max damage. This is easy to see as we've been noting hits for years. Now, those that create max damage calculators probably know for sure, but it seems that like Attack number and Defense number, the Damage number is based off your Strength and is multiplied by your bonuses (that means someone with a 40 Atk and 1 Str will not do max out much with a Rune 2h). Since average damage has added up to being half your max damage, it stands to reason that damage is a random number from 0 to your max damage (for that hit only). This is easiest to realize if you don't use STR boosting items, and have a consistent damage chance. **Reason I'm saying it contradicts an RSOF post is that one Jagex mod mentioned that armor reduces the chance of higher damage by your opponent. As I've not noticed this, I wonder how much of it is true.

Some other things of note 1. A tool shed near Varrock Castle for the king - not sure if this was a joke or a hint at a useful update. 2. Accumulator working on knives - I'll be honest, I thought it worked on them already. Is this a hint that if it doesn't work on knives that it will in the near future? 3. Goofy videos by Jagex - seeing the goofy photo, it's possible Jagex posts a goofy videos on it's YouTube channel. Ok, I'm stretching here.

Do you think that Jagex will upgrade the diaries over time? Certainly in a year's time, there are new things to do in an area. However, you do not have to do new tasks if you fininshed the diaries previously. In addition, do you think Jagex will allow a way for players to replay the diaries? I thought it would be cool if you could re do the diaries, but on a timer to see how fast you do them. This would have a high scores list minigame ranking.

You all are making this too complicated. The way to end junk trading is to get rid of artificial price floors. Nothing more, nothing less. If the system stops thinking unstrung maple bows are worth 158 gp and begins thinking they're worth 2 gp or less, then there is no more junk that can be traded. To prevent abuse, just have a "best profit makers" list on the GE page listing items that have best profit from high alchemy and selling to stores. Prevents clans from messing with items for quick profits.

It's misunderstanding of chance that has caused very juvenile arguments. When it was revealed Dust Devils drop dragon chains, people moaned that such a low level creature could drop one of the more expensive drops. They could not wrap their head around that 1/10,000 chance. For them, it's the same as the chance of getting feathers from a chicken. My problem with the article is it needs to point out both sides. Chance from the beginning of a series and chance at the end of a series. Say the chance of dragon leg drop from steel dragons is 1/200. If you know you're going to kill 1000 steel dragons, there's a 99.4% chance of getting at least one leg drop. If you killed 999 steel dragons without a leg drop, well, sorry, but that last kill is only 0.5% chance of a leg drop. Another problem with misunderstanding chance, is since it's random, player's argue you can't know what's going to happen. They can't wrap their head around the idea you can go in with reasonable expectations of outcome. I know after killing 1000 steel dragons there'll be 5000 steel bars, 1000 dragon bones all but guarenteed. I should also see about 800 blood runes, 300 soul runes, 2 dragon plate legs, 30 runite bars, etc, etc. It won't be exact, but chance reveals itself over time. That's the reason I know roughly how many yew logs I get an hour. The chance of getting a yew log is 1/6 per hit. So I can sometimes go a minute or more without getting logs, sometimes I get 10 or more in minute. However, over 3 hours that chance narrows down to the average of 3 logs per minute. By the way, the "I'm due for a drop" is called the Gambler's Falacy in logic.

well if the decent items are for combat (they always are as far as boss monsters are concerned) then they should come from combat as rare drops, its what makes them lust after and precious and also expensive so only those that put the effot in can have them. elysian shield is a perfect example of this. Hmm, makes perfect sense. From now on, the best foods, potions, and runes shall be from monster drops. Though it begs the question from where did these items come from prior to being in the belly of some fantastical beast? Why is the use of high level combat skills and equipment to kill high level monsters ok, but the use of high level skills and high level equipment to make high level items not ok? I'll be honest, I don't buy the risk versus reward argument for the most part. All non-boss monsters can be engaged for a long time with little to no risk of death if one went prepared. Most boss monsters (if not all) are engaged either with tactics that allow camping (Daggonoth Kings), allow little risk of loss on death (4 item the kalphite queen), or is engaged with just 4 items due to 1 hit kills (spirit beast). For the well prepared, it's not risk, it's annoyance. You spend time, effort (concentration, clicks on mouse), and gp (food, potions, etc.). But who here seriously goes to the Daggonoth Kings expecting to die? I bring food, armor, spells, and one-click teleport. I've died there only to lag and lost little compared to the gains from every other non-death trip. Ok, any high level item should be difficult to obtain originally. One difficulty is boss drops, another is quest via quests, another is mini-games. There are countless other ideas floating around to make it difficult to create/obtain a high level item. I don't think combat should be the only way, but should remain a way. I also agree, there can be tradeable and non-tradeable high level items. The fire cape is a perfect example (although it's obtained through combat). It represents one to two hours of effort and combat prowess. Anything that takes six hours to obtain will be charged quite a bit. Now, if that's six hours to anyone (f2p for example), then that charge has to be low. But imagine that's six hours of effort from a person that has to have 98 in 8 different skills. Since the number of people with those numbers are lower, those that bother will charge more. Worried about the value of an item degrading in time? Make it a part of the higher level item. Imagine if you had to use a Dragon Chain to make a Dragon Plate. The lower level item is removed from the game to make the higher item, which means both need to be farmed (and keep prices up). Another way is add degrading to an item, which only a player made item can refresh. Don't want combat to lose it's perch as gatherer of god slaying weapons? Different weapons and armor are dropped than what can be made. These are not new concepts. However, for the idea of player made high level items to be feasible, Jagex.

Hmmm it seems like you want to avoid my arguement at all costs now. What I'm obviously trying to say is that the supply is controlled by monster drops because monster drops are completely random and cannot be produced according to the player's whim. That's why you can't create high level items because then they would be too cheap. There are over a million people playing runescape... If you were to have a new high level creatable then whoever can make it will constantly make it until there is an oversupply of them. Alright now counter this with a "No 99 Melee you seem to be talking nonsense. Let's move on.." But what you did was say that because something was chance, there's no REASONABLE assumption of results. Tree cutting is completely random chance. However, you get reproducable results over time. Something like yew trees have a 1/6 chance of getting a log per axe hit. So if you limit your time to just 1 minute of wood cutting, you could get 20 logs or no logs (neither are likely, but those are the extremes). If you limit yourself to an hour, your range of possibilities increase, but it begins to narrow down to 3 logs every minute on average. You, my friend, ignore averages in your argument, thus making your argument unreasonable. Monster drops follow a pattern. That pattern appears over time. Thus, you can farm a steel dragon, kalphite queen, daggonoth king for a steady income so long as you go for the long haul. I know this cause I've done it. I'm not childish to look at one drop. I looked at all drops over time (even posted drop chances on it), and did the math

Yeah, part of it's my fault in answering all the tangents and being a bit sarcastic about it. Again, I did not want this to be a suggestion thread. One, Jagex ain't gonna read it, so it's moot to get all detailed. And two, it quickly can tangent off the main point which is we need high level player made items. I was trying to argue that high level drops like divine shield and godswords are "player made", but Tripsis pointed out it's better to think of these are "player extracted" like sharks, mage logs, and runite ore. Granted, that created the ways one goes about balancing player created items. I say you increase number of skills (that cannot be shared or assisted) needed to make an item, add in tedium, add in cost, etc. Now discussions along those lines are worth going off on tangents. Kind of like the bit of getting a rare chance at an item from common training, then using that item to make an even better item. Anyway, thanks for bringing me back on point. I'm of the mind that just like a warrior that combines Attack, Summoning, Prayer, Hitpoints and Magic in a manner to get some good income (decent drops on average, uber drops on lucky few times); then a skiller should be able to combine skills for decent income on average, but some lucky high income now and again. Granted, anyone who read the tread "How am I lucky" realizes that luck is just skill over a long period of time for the most part.

I think not. Level 3 - xp = 174 ........... 174 x 2 = 348 xp .................. Level 3 + 7 = level 10. ................... Level 10 xp = 1154 Level 13 - xp = 1883 ....................... 1883 x 2 = 3766 ....................... Level 13 + 7 = 20. ................. Level 20 xp = 4470 Well, gosh, you got me there. Here I was talking about high level skills and you prove me wrong with low level numbers. It's like I made a comment that men generally outweigh women on average by 50 pounds and you post the average weight of 8 year olds to prove me wrong. However, let's show my rebuff to your rebuff using the skill levels I mentioned: Level 85 xp - 3,258,594 (x2 - 6,517,188) (x4 - 13,034,376) Level 92 xp - 6,517,253 (x2 - 13,034,506) Level 99 xp - 13,034,431 Now, I know that four level 85 skills is 55 xp lower than one level 99 skill. And we all know getting those extra 55 xp is MUCH harder than that oh so simple 13 million xp. However, let's stay on point and consider it close enough for government work and move on. Look, this isn't grade school or the RSOF. Saying one part (and irrelevant to the main discussion) of an argument wrong, does not invalidate the entirety of it.

No_99, you keep changing your request. First it was the mathematical formula for all heads (in answer to a two sided coin flipped 1000 times, that's 2^999-1 to 1 against). Put bluntly, that's winning the California powerball lotto (a 1 in 100 million chance) about 40 times. Now you want exact numbers which doesn't play into the discussion. So again, you want to be absurb, I will not answer your critiques and questions. Tripsis, you make a great point that killing monsters is akin to cutting down trees or fishing. You're either getting finishing products or products that can become something else. So combat skills are EXTRACTION skills, and not PRODUCTION skills (well, Magic is a production skill at times, with alchemy and enchant). However, that's splitting a hair. It's still a limited set of skills for the EXTRACTION of high level items. With other skills, such as fishing, mining or woodcutting you're limited to 1k gp items or 15k gp in case of mining, but not guarenteed. Now, as Boss monsters require multiple skills and effort and cost to extract items, it's not a stretch to think similar difficulties and cost can be place on other extraction skills. Then just further apply that to production skills.

If you want to talk absurdity, it won't be with me. However, I'm feeling sarcastic, so I'll answer. Now, if you used a two-headed coin, the mathematical chance is 100% assuming you don't count the times it lands on it's edge, and a flip is guarenteed each time. If you used a 1 headed coin, the mathematical chance is 1 to 1. If you used a coin with no heads, it's a 0% chance. If you used a coin with 20 sides and one of them is heads, then the chance is 19 to 1 against getting a head. So, for your mathematical formula, you have to tell me A: Which type coin I'm using. B: How many flips (very important for the formula). Where did I say people will charge what they think is a fair price? They charge what they want, people pay what they want. If the two intersect (and an item is part of it), then you get what's called a transfer. The trick is that merger of item a person wants to sell (supply), that item a person wants to buy (demand), the person actually having the item and wanting to sell it at a price, and a person having the cash and wanting to buy the item at that price. It can get pretty complicated, but it boils down to simple supply and demand.

Look, changing what I said then arguing against it is not good discussion tactic. Here's how random works: I can roll a six sided dice 6000 times. Now, there is a CHANCE that the number five will never come up in all of those rolls. However, it's absurb to use that in a reasonable discussion about chance. In those 6000 rolls, you're going to get about 1000 fives come up. That's a reasonable discussion on chance. That there's a random chance for a dragon leg drop from Steel dragons, it's absurb to say "Well, there's a chance I can kill 10,000 of them and not get a drop" as an argument. Cause that chance is so low as to be pointless. It's like comparing the drop of D Chain from a Kalphite Queen (1 in 100) to that of Dust Devils (1 in 10,000). Yeah, you don't get it every 100 kills, but on AVERAGE should you kill 10,000 kalphite queens, you should have ABOUT 100 D Chain drops. This is simple mathematics here. Anything can be made more difficult to create or get. You increase: Tedium, Time, and/or Cost. If something cost 5 magic crystals to make, then the cost of the final product will be near cost of five magic crystals. As these are pricey items, fewer players will make them. If something takes you 6 hours to make, players will make them and charge what they think 6 hours of their time is worth. If no one want's to pay that cost, people stop making it. If something takes 5 days to wait to get, then players will know that the item enters the game slowly. All these are ways to limit supply. Player made items can be just as limited as the player made items we call combat drops. On the opposite side, there has to be a demand for the items. If everybody wants it, then the cost goes up. If the supply is too high, demand is filled and cost goes down. This is simple economics. People "mined" the abyssal for whips so much that the price dropped from 30 million gp down to it's current price. That it was a "random" drop did not matter cause over enough kills that "random" drop was still a consistant drop. The whip is still a player generated item like the rune plate. You're just "making" it in a different way.