NukeMarine

Thanks to the Grand Exchange and the ability to unnote ores at the Blast Furnace, I've noticed it's become either reasonably priced for grinding experience or decent method to profit in trading. Consider: Level 70 smithers - 26 addy ore (1250 gp each), 78 note coal (162 gp each) and 1680 gp to unnote the coal for a total of 46.8k gp to make 26 addy bars (2500 gp each) which sell for 65k. That's a 18.2k gp profit per 3 minute trip (on a busy world where you usually don't even have to run the machine). Oh yeah, you get 1k smithing xp a trip. Now, before the Unnoting update, this was not safe as you needed a full store to make unnoting cheap. This could not be done at a busy Blast Furnace as someone always bought out the store. So you lost the benefit of a team at the cost of profitable smelting. Now you get BOTH! Second Example: Level 68 smithers - 1000 noted Mith ore, 2000 noted Coal, 200 natures. At the cost of 20 mith ore (325 gp each), 40 coal (162 gp each) and 2300 gp for unnoting plus 4 natures (250 gp each), you get 20 bars for 15.3k plus 1k to alchemy the 4 Mith Platebodies 12.4k. That's about 3k gp for 1600 smithing experience (plus 320 mage xp). That's pretty cheap for the fast experience you'll be getting. Much cheaper than the Gold method suggested elsewhere (smelt gold, make bowls, alc the bowls). Third Example: Level 60 smithers - 20 iron ore (81 each), 20 coal (162 each) and 700 gp to unnote plus 4 nature runes (250 each) you'll spend 6560 gp to get 4 platebodies that alchemy for 4800 gp. I think you get 1120 smithing xp and 320 mage xp from this. Fourth Example (Addy Bar Runners): Level 70 Smithers - 1000 Noted Addy Ore, 1 noted Addy Bar, 500k gp, 3000 noted coal, 1 hammer in inventory. This is complicated, but you trade 23 noted addy ore, 23 unnoted addy bars and running payment (like 5k gp) to an addy bar runner that gives you 23 unnoted addy ore and 23 noted addy bars. Now just load up the addy ore, and unnote the coal at the store to get the next set of bars for the next runner. When you're up to 1k addy bars, sell them at GE and buy more ore and coal. This is VERY fast XP (~60k an hour or more xp) with high profit (100k to 200k an hour), however it won't be possible once Balanced Trading is made mandatory. Use it while you can. Here's the math: You get a 700 gp profit per addy bar you make (1250 for ore, 63 to unnote coal, 486 for 3 coal totals 1800 gp, which you sell the bar for 2500 gp). At 23 bars a trade, that's 16.1k gp profit a trade. Anything you pay the runner under that therefore is net profit. You can do about 60 trades an hour if you're going smoothly. Granted, if the GE gets flooded with addy bars and the demand for ore goes up, well, the numbers will change. However, at the moment, you're looking at something that puts smithing on par with Level 91 runecrafting. 5th Example (Runite Smelting!!!) Level 85 smithing: Buy 1k runite ore at GE for 12450 each. Buy 4k coal for 132 gp each. Smelt and bank bars (about 450 bars an hour). In 2 hours, you can then sell bars for 15,000 each. That's a 2000 gp profit per bar or 900k gp an hour. Yeah, it's faster than duel nat crafting with current prices. Anyway, just saying that the Blast Furnace (at the moment) is THE place to be getting your smithing done. I won't mention the use of adamantite ore runners as that'll likely be impossible after the balance trading comes into full swing. Too bad, that would have been very popular. So, any thoughts or additions to how the updates are helping the game for you? ********************************** Ok, just finished 1 hour at the Blast Furnace doing 100 sets of mith plates. I went with 1k mith ore, 2k coal, 100k gp and 200 natures. If I could buy mith or coal from the store, I did. I used world 58 which had a haphazard group working it so the last half was slower than it needed to be (I had to pump and fix last few sets). This is due to it being 10pm in California I guess. Any, end results: ~108 Mith plates per hour (100 sets in 56 minutes) I gained 110k gp I used 140 Mith (324 each) - 45.36k 540 Coal (162 each) - 87.48k 100 Nats (250 each) - 25k Total Spent: 157.8k gp Please note I was using the store a lot. You time and cost will vary slightly depending on how well the group there works and you luck in using the store efficiently.

And here we learn never to post drunk. The truly sad part is that he probably thinks this is the height of intelligent discussion and that he offered a superior retort. Eyehawk 78 wrote Hence you have it based off a mix of the three. One with high in quest points, skill points and player age is able to trade more unbalanced than one with only 1 of them high. Plus, that means a RWT would have to "invest" a year or more to make a useful throwaway character that compromises any other character he has in store (Jagex records all your IP addresses believe it or not). Not really, if you do the math, it would only allow a small financial return akin to high alchemy. However, high alchemy only works best with plate armor and no other items. This offers a fun way to replicate what high alchemy does but without introducing tons of gp into the game. Anyway, the Blast Furnace has made smithing pretty easy. With the ability to safely unnote there, it is even more so.

No matter the number they give for unbalanced trades, it will never be high enough. I still think it should be attached to all three aspects of a character's age (quests, skill points, game time) that way there's benefit to any manner one goes about using a character. We'll see in time how Jagex really implements changes for the better. The future updates post looks promising.

Does it work at the barrows? PS: If it does work ANYWHERE, Jagex will soon fix that little issue. So no moaning when they do *WAAH! They let NPC's walk thru snowmen now and didn't tell me. I lost 5 billion at Barrows and Dagg Kings. WAAAH!*

Well, it beats manually dumping and filling the vials again.

Danka. Plus, I did post these in the RSOF, so perhaps someone at Jagex saw it.

Yes, I do believe Jagex needs to have consideration for veterans. These guys and girls invest many, many hours into a game. Many have tried to improve it in what little ways they can. As for the ess, you misunderstood. It's not asking for stackable ess. When I said merge, I mean to remove the Pure Ess or at least allow regular ess to work on Combo Runes and at the ZMI Altar. When trading (for running), unnoted ess has a different value at the altars than anywhere else.

Nudge

Assuming that "letter" is real, I'd offer the following: Jagex should be able to allow the player to give a better name that Jagex approves of. Next, JAGEX transfers the items and JAGEX makes the stats and everything else match up. Reason: The ENTIRE point of next months update is that some things are worth more than others. Paying 5 dollars a month on an account you worked on for 3 years IS NOT the same as 5 dollars on an account you just got. There's no excuse that can be given about why a game company cannot change something as simple as a Character Name. I do think the letter is fake.

It basicly was macroers that caused this dearth of 99 skillers. No, I'm not accusing the guys that got 99 did macro. I'm saying that with so much GP (from macro'd high alchemy from macro'd yew longs for example) and excessive items sold cheap (again, from overuse of macros) there was a surplus of items to level up even with a modest income. Now, let's consider: Sharks should be expensive. It's LOUSY experience so the only reason to fish sharks is for the cash. If I can get more CASH from monkfish (5 per minute versus 1 per minute for sharks), obviously I'll fish monkfish since I get more XP to boot (assuming I did the quest). Same goes for Mage logs. Look, prices will begin to rise which encourage players to produce those items bring the price to a stable medium. It's simple as that. In addition, Jagex will still give us our pseudo version of macros called Manage Thy Kingdom, Hand in the Sand, and Battlestaffs at Varrock (probably missing some). By introducing variants of these where high level players can get their own resources to use or sell, it also stabablizes the market (except in case of maples). Yeah, prices will be higher or lower, but it will still be because PLAYERS either want it more than other PLAYERS want to provide it, or vice versa. Now your effort will determine the price, not the never tiring bot.

Jagex knew the average price of items because it monitored ACTUAL PLAYER TRADES!!! You, the player, and the 6 million other players, continually traded ores, rares, weapons, herbs and other items ALL THE TIME. When you paid cash for your items, Jagex can easily track that. Jagex could tell the average price of items people were ACTUALLY PAYING. Note Advertising what they were paying (such as forums), but the end trade as in Player A and Player B hit accept. Now, with the GE, it shows there's a slight flaw. People were paying more for items before the GE because it was inconvenient. Now with convenience, people want to pay less. This is very simple as a concept. Of course, I will say Jagex could do with the following: More displayed average prices at the NPC's, very easy to do with tabs. Don't just show ores, show bars. Don't just show one type of armor sets, show them all (tabbed) and some weapons too. Update prices hourly, but let the average be decided over the last day. Remove the lower limit price of ALL items that alc for less than cost of a nature rune (but not lower than a store would buy it for).

That's likely a whole other legitimate thread in itself. ~~What Anti-Macro Updates Can Now Be Removed~~ 1. Pure Essence re-merged with Essence. A stop gap could be allow regular ess to be used at ZMI altar and Combo runes (less likely to use runners here). 2. World Hopping delay removed 3. Lengthy random events removed 3a. If not removed, update randoms so that it takes a player's level into account when offering the reward. Any others? I'm sure Jagex would look at such a thread.

Like it's been said, RWT can still happen, but it's so annoying to do that no one will do it. Even Dragon Arrows (should the exploit work), is the Buyer having to wait around while a bot (that SOMEHOW got the cash to buy enough Dragon Arrows) shoots these Dragon Arrows (so he SOMEHOW got the range for it). It may be trading outside the 3k limit, but the only practicle way to do it is with a main character, which few will risk for a RWT. Conveniently getting something for nothing (outside of Chance, such as at the Party Palace), has been stopped.

Amazing, you claim this is real, then later posts by you suggest it a possibility and not a reality. So, unless you post the link or a pic to the above "loop hole" discussion, I'm just going to think you made it up to back up your own idea of a loophole. See, the GE sets a price cap on stackables. You cannot buy feathers, runes, arrows, etc. at higher than the stores that sell them. Trust me, people are using the GE to buy feathers. Right now, the only RWT that can occur is Account Trading. All others would revolve around using a Bot to expedite your skill gains (ex: you pay for a chinese bot to run essence for you for free ingame). Any and all convenient means to get something for nothing ingame (with chance being involved) have been cut off.

Loot Share MUST be improved in some fashion to take into account the Uber drops. That's a given. Now, how to do this that takes into account ALL the variables that go with being on a team that got that drop? I can ONLY think of this one thing: In you GE slots, there's a right click option called "Loot Share". You have to activate this slot in order for any drops to allow for loot share. So you have upto 6 slots that can share loot. Now, when you Team Up, your team can activate "Hi Value lootshare" prior to combat. All members on that team must activate it in order to get this advantage. Each member must have at least 1 bank slot allocated for "Loot Share" While in Loot Share, so long as you're a team mate with a "Loot Share" box in the GE not in use, then he and ALL others that also have an open "Loot Share" box get the drop worth over 250k sent to the GE. This happens AUTOMATICALLY. The sale gets split evenly amoung all teammates that had a LootShare box open and kept it open during that time. Sorry, but the price is set at the going average price at the GE. What happens if A player cancels his box: He loses his split of the sale if it did not happen yet. A player goes f2p: Does not matter, he's cannot retrieve a Loot Share item once it's in the GE. From my understanding, if you have more than 2 slots at the GE prior to going F2P, then you can still let those sales go through anyway (you just can't sell or buy anymore to you have 1 or no slots in use). It does not sell: Sadly, in Loot Share, you have to sell it at the mid-range price. Each day the price resets to the middle. No other item will do this. Why this works: Memory issues - Jagex using character memory of all players in the clan instead of just one character. My "loot share" box, just has the item being sold with a marker that will split the sale with other accounts with the GE marker. Pretty simple actually. Problems: Well, you all have to share GE slots. Otherwise, what prevents a player from canceling his sale? How do you track the different clans you're in? It's a problem, but at least it allows for uber drops to be shared with NO chance of back stabbing. Even the risk from an untimely death is removed. Variants: Clans are allowed to dictate the value the item must exceed in order for it to be used as GE Loot Share. Perhaps clans of 50 people would not care for a 250k drop, but will care about a 50 million gp drop. I think this is complicated, but workable with the limits of character memory.

This idea was suggested back when Dueling was limited to 3k. Now it's even more important for Jagex to implement it. The should range from 3k per 15 minutes to 250k per 15 minutes. Basicly, it's Time character has been in Runescape Skill Level Quest Points (including Achievement Diaries) Now, I doubt Jagex will make this change instantly. They want to get rid of all traces of RWT first. Perhaps later they'll offer up this carrot. In fact, with the scourge of RWT gone, perhaps more creative ideas can be implemented into Runescape. It's just a matter of wait and see.

Yeah, I always wanted an account with stats 70+ with the name: 023ntho2455 Tis a dream I often had. Come on, most accounts sold were scams (to get you to put good stuff on it then they password recovered), pures (not the most useful character now), and old accounts that were legitimately played till the owner got bored. Funny thing is I think Jagex will be a bit more lenient toward macro use now that you pretty much do it for your own than to make RW cash. Nah, they'd still hammer you.

Hmm, how many of them have pure stats (low defense and high attacks). In fact, any pures out there finding these beasts easier to kill? Seems a pure has the advantage against revenants just going off descriptions.

Posted additions. Oh, and a bit about tournaments: I think that Jagex can improve touranment participation with the following: First Round: Winner gets half the loser's entrance fee and all of his own. Rest of fee will go to tournament pot. Second Round to Semi Finals: Winner gets half the loser's current holdings. Final Round: Winner gets the tourney purse. So, if 1000 gp entrance for 64 man tournament means: Round (players) - Win, Lose 1st round (64) - 1500 gp, 0 gp (16k to tourny purse) 2nd round (32) - 2250 gp, 750 gp 3rd round (16) - 3375 gp, 1155 gp 4th round (8) - 5000 gp, 1690 gp 5th round (4) - 7500 gp, 2500 gp 6th round (2) - 22500 gp, 7500 gp

**Edit: Posted exactly what the guy above said** Yes, I can see the remerger of essense happening. Any other anti-bot and anti-RWT aspects of RS you think will go away thanks to these updates? Perhaps a few of the more annoying Random Events perhaps? Granted, this would only happen if the presence of bots begin to drop more dramatically.

RWT took up resources. If it were only players, legitimate players, doing this, yeah, I'd think Jagex went overboard. However, we're talking organized use of mass labor and bots. Basicly, it made the use of gathering skills pointless. IT would only get worse. Plus, Jagex was losing money thanks to fake credit cards. I'll be honest, when the bots were limited to f2p, ok, annoying but that impacted P2P on certain goods. It's when they went for member items that began to dilute my five dollars of enjoyment. How can you compete with sharks, or magic logs, or nat runners that did not sleep? It made an obvious impact on the market once the curtains were pulled back with the GE. With the bots gone, prices will stabilize. Soon, the mass amounts of gp and items stored on bots will go away (or be evenly traded for like). I hate to say give it time, but in this case we have too. It's too unpredictable on the long term impact. I just think the overall will be positive.

I kinda wonder if a Pure can dominate a revenant like he does normal players? If revenant drops are worth it, maybe there's a sub-genre of monster hunters in there. Oh wait, never mind.

Do you REALLY think Jagex is suprised? They POSTED that they expected this in the Development Diaries. Yeah, it's gonna hurt. It's gonna be a hard pill to swallow. However, I think this may be the best thing to happen to MMORPG's. Think of Pking: For now it's kinda like it was before (clans dominate). So there'll be updates like: Solo only bounty (no rogue in that area). Another variant like the Duel Arena where you pay an entrance fee, and every kill nets you the victim's entrance fee. Maybe a Pk anywhere option down the road. Heck, they may allow us to pk in the wild again. Sure you don't get drops, but you get to annoy people and that can be fun sometimes. Right now, they did a major shift. Now it's to build on that shift.

Yes, I always wanted a character with all the stats in the 70's name ao1234snth334 Tiss a dream come true. Seriously, no Asian based gold farmers are going to crank out stat based characters for sale. Yeah, you'll get the occassional character sold cause a guy got bored (or is trying to scam you). However, the GOLD FARMER as shown by Jagex (and supported by documentary evidence) was making a killing and making the game worse. Yeah, the game got harder. That's good. Now we can depend on new players to supply the items and not bots. Maybe that'll cause inflation in a good way. Who knows. But no, we're not gonna get a dirth of character sales that has not already been happening.

Two very nice articles that intersect my own thoughts on the matter. Right now, the two issues people are bringing up are: Gift Giving: Sadly, it has to stop. There's no way around this. Now, it may change if Jagex implements a Veteran system. Loot Share: The idea of putting a "lock" on high value item dorps so that it can only be sold to the GE is good. Another is allow a "pay clan" where you can unlock the item if you offer the GE value split amoung the clan. You know, think of it this way, Jagex will change up the trading and staking system in the coming months. No reason not too. The Bounty Hunter game will probably be improved over time. Here's the amazing thing: Many of these changes bring about EXACTLY what I've seen ranted about. Now you can't scam anymore with log switching. Now the PKers only need to worry about PKers. You get auto-skulled. You can TELL how much the guy is carrying. His Protect Item does not work, he cannot log out, there's no NPC's blocking his combat. Heck, even on death, you now have FIVE minutes to get your stuff and UPTO 1 hour if a Friend blesses your tombstone. Imagine that at the Dagganoth kings where you die on purpose so that your friend can bless the tombstone so that you can run and get more items at the bank. No more lost Guthix spears or Verac helms basicly. I think this will rate one of the best updates by many.