NukeMarine

I agree, and your pure's coming along quite nicely. Well done. OT: While i do agree that RS needs a free economy, maybe the limits were for a 'Greater Good'.. Nothing can replace pre-GE.. good ol' days. :) Oh yeah, world hopping only to have your time wasted by a scammer attempting to change steel bars into iron bars, or claim those 1000 unid herbs were all ranarrs. Not having a clue what the current price of an item was without wasting time on RSOF trade and item forums. Sorry, pre-GE were not good ol' days for me. Yeah, I made lots of cash (herb merchanting mainly) but that was the nature of the system. In my opinion, it's the great potential of the GE that has still been kept in check by Jagex (due to fear of manipulators) that is causing all this heartache. Once (ok, if) the 5% window and price floors go away, these "limits" on buying will be considered by the average player as irrelevant. Only the "merchanters" will be affected. Let's face it, NO BODY outside of merchanting needs the numbers even the current GE limits have set up.

Before the GE, merchants had a very important use: getting products from small amounts from various skillers, combine into large amounts, then selling to those that wanted large amounts. This was essential to the flow of Runescape as a MMORPG. I will always consider this to have been an honorable method of merchanting. Those that bought rares to flip them, well, WTF did they actually add to the game? Nothing. Just drove up prices. The honorable side of merchanting is gone. The GE removed that need and I'm glad for it. Merchanters now are nothing but flippers. They add ZERO value to the game with the exception of high priced items, and items that cannot be corrected with the GE. Even that specific need will disappear in the coming months. Once Jagex lifts the 5% window (assumption on my part seeing the higher restrictions on the GE), and removes price floors (to get rid of junk trading loopholes) then Merchanters will not make any money. As for skillers, pkers, combat kings, mini-gamers, role players, questers: We each play the game for our own reasons. Jagex's updates the last year seems to cater to all the above.

For the "moaning" about this: You can still buy AS MANY AS YOU LIKE from others players outside the GE. You just can't have an impact on the internal working of the GE in that case (hmm, no market manipulation). This looks to be one step to removing pricing limits on the GE. Consider, I can SELL as much as I want. However, it must be sold to dozens or hundreds of people and not to one person. That's been the one problem when there was no limit on how much can be bought, manipulation by organized, rich groups, and this helps control that. Then again maybe I'm overthinking it. I wonder now if this means we can soon see a lifting of the 5% limit and removal of the floors and ceilings. If you remove the price floors, soon "junk items" stop being junk since they'll approach their real player value. So now, what are all the limits for buying at the GE? PS: Only a moron would compare real world economics as a one to one to Runescape economics.

This article once again confuses exploits (emergent gameplay) with bugs (also emergent gameplay). When I say confuse, the article uses the "ban" word a lot. Assume this: all people that abuse bugs will be banned. Stupid assumption as anyone that got two or more ghost speak amulets would be banned. Assume this: all people that abuse a bug that A) hurt other players outside of PvP areas B) caused rapid XP or item gain (Waterfall quest bug great example) would be banned. Pretty good assumption. Certain bugs are not exploits, but look cool. The moonwalk bug or sliding easter egg are good examples. No use in gameplay, but just look like fun. Certain bugs become exploits, as they were unintended but gave players an advantage in playing the game. Great example would be the Crystal Bow exploit, or Boss sticky spots. Jagex, at their own whims, can fix these. Certain bugs are abused, as they give unfair advantage or allow damage to other players where it's never intended. Duridal (sp?) with Construction, the Abyss on release, Waterfall quest allowing multiple quest rewards. Certain bugs are deadly, but cannot be abused by players. The instant death at Juna's cave is a good example here. Ok, someone might have lured you down there, but that's another issue. I doubt the article writer can point to a single case where players were banned cause they caused the Boss to not kill them. Yes, Jagex plugs the hole (Kalphite queen eating the cannon, Barrow Brothers walking through people, Random Events, etc.) but players up to that point kept the spoils. To abuse a bug means you have to use the "reasonable person" argument: Would a reasonable person think this bug should not be used as it'll harm other players or gameplay unreasonably. Oh look, I can get a million XP in 1 hour without spending a dime, sure Jagex intended that to happen. Oh look, I can kill people in my house and keep their drops, Jagex must have wanted this to happen.

the whole game? umm dks, kbd, minning, collecting snape grass, talking to friends, selling a goblin mail to a store, alching, killing a chicken...from what you say they are all distractions :wall: I cannot constantly do MTK, Farming (trees), Slayer Vine, Chaos Tunnel or D&D. They are limited events. I can constantly Alc, Kill Chickens, Mine, etc. If my list was not obvious, they are events that can be performed once every certain amount of time (once a day or once a week). These are not events that you can grind. Now, would you care to offer distractions in that vein?

Out of interest, how many total diversions are there in Runescape at the moment? I can think of: 1. Manage thy Kingdom 2. Tears of Guthix 3. Slayer Vine 4. Chaos Tunnels 5. D&D Technically, farming was a distraction as it was run around digging and planting trees. Any others?

Quote from Jagex's "Future PVP Updates" News article: "Attack any player within a certain level of your own. Level range depends on the area, similar to the old Wilderness levels." Would be ridiculous any other way. It's been my theory (for over 2 years) that it'll increase the farther from the safe spots (banks most likely) you get. The only area with no level restrictions will be the Wilderness. Let's face, you can't call it the Wilderness if it's the same as all the other areas of Runescape, so making it a free for all is the only thing that makes sense. Of course, that means you cannot teleport out of the Wilderness at all so I guess that means the ditch will remain for "safety" reasons. Basically, you won't be owning noobs at Lumbridge, but you can own the morons stupid enough to site see in the Wilderness.

Hopefully you cannot save your top three items on death on a PK anywhere server. That'll limit the skillers that want to level on PK servers (they'll lose their pick or axe). On the other hand, I agree with others it'll be cool if skilling on PK anywhere servers bring unique benefits.

Jagex could get rid of the merchants (well, get rid of the "need" for merchants) in a month with the following: 1. Remove Price Floors and Caps - Without price floors, "junk" items reach their actual player based value. Without "junk" higher prices, the loophole to get around balanced trade is closed. 2. Allow bidding outside the 5% window - Players can place the bids outside the window, which will help determine the shift of prices. However, until your bid falls within the 5% window, it will not get processed. 3. Post publicly items that bring profits via alchemy/store selling for low priced items, and purchase for store bought/easily obtained items - The reason for this step is to prevent "back door" and out of sight market manipulations. If million plus players start to notice "1/3 cake" is selling for 500 gp or higher (due to attempt to manipulate prices for quick RWT), then players will flood the GE with "1/3 cakes". It'll also help those that want to alc or store sell for profit to know what items to grab (or what items to stop selling). 4. Allow decimal bidding for low price items - A gp difference is nothing if an item is 500k gp, but immense for a 25k items at 12 gp instead of 13 gp. Allowing decimal bidding for items under 100gp means a smoother price change. Not to mention it removes those stupid results on the big movers page (cause going from 5gp to 6gp is 20% increase, but 5.48 gp to 5.53 gp is a 1% increase). With the above, you fix issue with the GE with market manipulation. And without price floors, junk disappears because now it's at a price players will pay.

You misunderstand, when I say "loose your stuff" it disappears entirely. The killer does not even see your stuff at all. It's gone, vanished, resting in that place all the left sided socks go when they disappear from the washing machine, ie Cleveland.

You areeeeeeee IGNORANT Hah, you really think people just guess on what item to invest in? It is the most efficient way, to make money if you are actually smart. A bunch of brats just cant merchant,, they don't know what to invest in, they don't know how, they don't know how to speculate and all they can do is buy rune full helms at 20k each and sell a 25k each. You literally need to know the investing laws, and use them in the game. No real investor never randomly bought an item EVER, they have to use careful thinking and have good speculation skills. There is no way in hell that anyone without skill can ever start investing. Well, that was awkward. Wonder if he'll reread the post he flamed?

Hmm, I calculated only 37k xp, with about 39k if you used the fire ring and glove combo. Here's the kicker: YOU CAN USE WILLOW LOGS and get the same xp. So, get the Ogre quest done so you have infinite run option, load up all the pyres, get your infinite run, light each and everyone in less than 10 minutes. The question then is: How fast can you do all this? 280 yews (417 each) costs about 117k. 280 willow logs (about 18 each) cost 4320 gp. So the cost saving is there to use low level logs. Only saving point then is the time it takes to do a full round to load up then get 14 pyres lit. I assume it takes 20 minutes to burn 280 yew logs, so use the 40k XP, 4500 gp cost (plus travel costs which I'm sure is high per round) and time to compare to yew's 117k gp cost, 56k xp and 20 minutes.

Most likely it'll be when you're killed all your items disappear and your killer gets a random drop from a pre-determined drop table (not items from your inventory). I hope that Jagex uses the gravestone though, and your killer can loot the tombstone for his random drop (destroying all your things in the process).

Wait a minute, where did they say the item would be untradeable? There will be unique PvP items (usable only on those servers), and drops that can only be gotten from PK. What that means is that these PK unique items will garner MUCH, MUCH higher prices as the cost to get them are high. **High rewards for kills. To avoid any RWT issues the reward for a successful PK will be generated by the game, similar to when you kill a monster at the moment. We're creating generous drop tables based on factors like your levels and the impressiveness of the kill. **These drop tables will include "PvP world specific" items like XP-modifying gear, lvl 70+ equipment and new, glorious, short-term but hard hitting gear. These will once again make PKing a viable source of income. Granted, it'll be easy to "game" the system. Two level 130's can hammer away at each other, eating sharks, carrying what the GE considers expenisive items (but players consider junk). So it looks like a long battle with lots of risk (items) at stake, ergo an impressive kill. And you know what, I think Jagex wants that in a way. It's no more than players that make hundreds of runs through the barrows day after day. Items leave the game, prices go up since the demand for the items will increase (players have to replenish stock).

Well, that's part of the point of this thread. If items like that LEAVE the game, then it means prices will not be dropping as fast. So, either you pk without the AGS, or risk it so that you get a chance at a better item. So, you lose the 75m gp but that means the other player has a greater chance of getting an outstanding drop worth (assuming it drop table is affected by player value of items lost in the kill). What I wonder is if other areas of the game will be different on PK anywhere servers? Better drops from monsters, better skilling, etc. I personally hope not, as it'll feel like the old wild where Jagex kinda forced "targets" (aka skillers) to go to the wild to get better drops or training. True, you'll find less players skilling on a PK anywhere server, but some will go there as the resources will be more open.

I love how Barrow's has gone down to almost a science. As for the "magic" number, here's my take: It doesn't help your chance of armor drops. It gives you the best ratio of reward/effort is all. At 11, you've maxed out the non-armor drops that creatures offered. PS: Anyone remember the first day of Barrows where every other run you could get a half key, and a not too uncommon Dragon Medium drop? Great day for prayer pot makers.

No, I think the ones that were glad to see pk'ing ruined are not happy it's coming back even bigger than before. I never had a problem with pk'ing, in fact I thought it could have been better (including being PK anywhere). Now, I did hate some of the tactics pk'ers used, mainly tag teaming in solo and ambush/retreat. The luring was just flat out item scamming (not to be confused with luring were you were getting other pkers to chase you to a multi zone where your friends were). Hopefully all those are removed when it comes back proper. I look forward to the return of pk'rs, even though I've not been one myself.

There's one flaw in all of our debating and discussing: No More Drop Trading! Before, Pkers claimed to have boosted the economy with all their spending. The thing was, their characters could not get wealthy on their own. It was the "main" that made the cash that ultimately created a good pker character. Without drop trading, unless you have an established, wealthy, pker; you're not in the position to buy tons of stuff to build a pker and fight for high stakes. Guess it's a subject of another thread, but where's the wealth going to come from that the pkers will use to finance their lifestyle?

I hope there are still gravestones. I'd hate to think someone accidently died (from a monster) and his friends couldn't protect the items via blessing just because you happen to be on a PK anywhere server. You're going on a server where you can get killed by every other player on it... I think dying accidently form a monster isnt much of a problem, and if you did, then kudos for being the one person who managed it that day... That said, gravestones should be allowed... But I should also be able to whack that person, should he come near his gravestone trying to retrieve his stuff... This is th eonly way the 'economy' can pick up again... People need to lose their stuff more often :) (not me of course) Oh, of course you can camp out a gravestone in the hopes some moron will come to get their stuff. Naturally you'd wait UNTIL they get their items, right? For the person worrying about friends killing each other to get rare drops. It'd be interesting if Jagex allows staged kills. I think they will for the main theme of this thread. You're gonna lose MUCH, MUCH more in items trying to increase the "remarkable kill" factor. Oddly enough, I think that'll be another use of the "junk" items. Pk'rs becoming the ultimate money sink. Who'd of thunk it.

I hope there are still gravestones. I'd hate to think someone accidently died (from a monster) and his friends couldn't protect the items via blessing just because you happen to be on a PK anywhere server. Granted, if it's hard death with a random drop, that still works. No one will be going to many boss fights on those servers. As for the one that said different level servers, I doubt that. PK anywhere will have levels of wilderness everywhere is all. Further from safe spots, the more people outside your combat level that are able to attack you. HOPEFULLY, the wilderness will have zero level restrictions. Imagine a free for all battle there?

Let' me reel in my statement a bit. Really I'm just saying armor and weapons will now become perishable items. This benefits smithing. Food and potions will go up in use, bringing about a boost to fishing/cooking/herblore/farming. However, fish comes into the economy so quick, I doubt even pk anywhere will help it that much. What we cannot predict is how big a drain to items this will ulitmately become. Are players willing to risk losing millions in armor and weapons to get the edge on another player (also wearing millions) to get the "impressive kill" factor up high enough for a decent drop? How fast will Rune Armor get depleted on free servers? This still looks like the biggest update since the GE/RWT changes. Yeah, the graphic change seemed big, but that was still cosmetics. It did not alter the way I really approached the game. PK anywhere will.

Assuming Jagex can program it right: The wilderness levels (the whole world is a wilderness) determine only when you can ATTACK somebody who has not attacked you. After that, until a certain time period has passed (say three minutes or death), then that person can retaliate no matter where you happen to be. So no more ambushing then running back to a safe spot. Example: CowPker (Lvl 102) ambushes Uber Stubble (level 115) at level 20 area. CowPker wimps out and runs to level 0 (varrock bank for example). Uber Stubble chases cow pker to bank, and since Cow Pker had attacked him, Uber Stubble unleashes fury upon CowPker inside the "safe" bank. Cow Pker can fight back, or run. Uber Stubble however cannot attack anyone else.

An epiphany if you will. First my opinion of how drops of Pk Anywhere will happen: 1. If you die on a PK Anywhere world, you leave behind a gravestone of all your items (you can save only one item with the prayer, not the top three). So you have upto the requisite time to run back and get your stuff. Unless.... 2. Your killer (and ONLY your killer) can plunder your gravestone. If that happens, he gets his random drop (however Jagex works that out), and your grave is destroyed along with all your stuff. The side benefit of this is no looters in clan wars. What that means to skillers? Think about it: Right now, there's armor and weapons in the game that were created 5 or more years ago. That stuff does not easily disappear as you had to die far away from the ability to run back to get your stuff. Mainly, items changed hands but never disappeard. With the above theory #2, very common PvP items will begin disappearing (armor, runes, weapons, potions, food, etc.) as they cannot be picked up by the killer and friends. That means that smithing, barrows, gwd may very well start seeing an increase in use again. High and mid level armor and weapons will disappear meaning skillers and mini-gamers will be needed to resupply.

Here's how I see it working: 1. Minigames, Certain (or all) Banks, and paths from certain teleport spots are safe zones. 2. Levels come into play the further you get from safe zones (from 1 just outside, to however high it can go). So no pile jumping newbies in Lumbridge. Lumbridge likely will be entirely a safe zone. 3. The wilderness area becomes free for all (no level restrictions) 4. Dying still means you leave behind a gravestone with all your stuff. However, your killer can now "plunder" your grave for his random reward. Reward is based on your level and GE value of what you were carrying (hmm, more use of Junk Items?). 5. There may be some limits to going from a PvP server to a safe server. I think it should be a time limit based on the last time you attacked someone (not in defense). This can be anywhere from 20 minutes to three hours.

When I suggested a similar PK anywhere idea two years ago, there was skulling and no gravestones. Seeing what Jagex wrote, likely it'll be the following: If you die with a skull (on a PvP world), your tombstone can be plundered for a random drop, but only by your killer for the first minute then anyone afterwards. The value of the drop depends on what you left behind I assume. Problems with that is of course with "junk" items that are still considered valuable in Jagex's GE eyes. Granted, the random drop may make this a moot effort. We shall see. PS: I bumped my original suggestion in the Bugs and Suggestion forum. Looks like a few of the ideas are being implemented (question is whether Jagex used mine or just came up with it on their own).