NukeMarine

Hatebringer, combat generated drops are not that random. If you take the random argument to its extreme absurdity, you have a chance to get a Mage Log on every chop while another player has a chance to NEVER get a mage log. Given time, you will average about 1 mage log a minute. Likewise, given time (and number of kills), you will average a D Chain drop from the Kalphite queen every 100 kills. As for limiting supply, you are correct. But this is no more than me saying: Ok, in order to make Drakan Armor Plate, you'll need (in addition to other stuff) five Anthracite. Anthracite is untradeable and can only be gathered from Coal rocks. However, you must have 85 mining and even then it's a 1/500 chance of getting Anthracite instead of regular coal. Ok, right there, you require a player with 85 mining to spend on average 5 hours to get material to make Drakan Armor. Yeah, it's random so he could get all five in his first minute. Then again, he could spend 10 hours and not get one Anthracite. Now see what I did? Players that fight monsters for "rare" drops also get not so rare drops that have value. With the Anthracite example, the player will be getting coal but might luck into the more valuable Anthracite. Heck, look at the Spirit Bow example, where a Spirit Seed is needed so you can grow a tree (83 farming) that you must cut down (85 woodcutting) to dig up the roots to spin (85 crafting) into a Spirit Bow String which you can make into a Spirit Bow (85 fletching). The limiting factor would be the Spirit Seed which is difficult to get via woodcutting, and pricey and time consuming via Manage Thy Kingdom. In addition, you have to wait five days per each. I can come up with dozens of ideas to justify that non-combat skills can make high level items and still be on par with the difficulty of combat drops.

Please note: I'm not offering this as a suggestion thread. I've made a very detailed suggestion in the past dealing with producing high level items using a combination of skills and non-tradeable intermediate items. Basic idea being that you and only you can make this item if you had the skills and then put in the time to gather the material. No sharing the effort. How to justify higher level items. 1. Risk - When I did Barrows or Kalphite or Steel Dragons I did not really risk too much barring a lag at the wrong time. My "production" skill of combat was high enough that none of these could kill me in a manner that I lost items of high value. That's akin to lagging out with the poison plant random. Still, risk is introduced either by roving monsters, traps, the path to get to an area, damage taken gathering items or producing them, etc. 2. Effort (skills) - If you didn't know, you need DOUBLE the xp of one level to gain 7 more levels. So level 97 is twice the xp of level 90. A person with 85 in 2 skills has the same xp as someone with 92 in 1 skill. So a person with 85 in 4 four skills has the xp of someone with 99 in 1 skill. You can argue the guy with 85 in four skills has put in effort. More so those with level 98 in many skills. 3. Effort (time) - How much time does it take to gather the materials or process them? One way is you have a long travel time to get to an area (say, level 9 of pyramid plunder, bottom of Karamja, etc.). Another is have it take a long time to randomly acquire the item. 4. Time (waiting) - There's a right way and wrong way to do this. The wrong way is long respawn times. This only encourages world hopping (shades of runite rock). The right way is attach time to the player. Consider a made up item called the Spirit Bow. Imagine one of the ingrediants being the roots of a Spirit Tree. Seeing that you can only have 1 spirit tree at a time, and it takes 5 days to grow, you're not getting many of these items very quickly. It's not difficult to think of ways to make the above tedious enough to justify high level player made items. In none of them are combat with high level monsters really necessary.

1. Combat Level - Top 10% of active member players (I think 110 CB Level is this) 2. Total Level - Top 10% of active member players (I think it's 1750 atm) 3. Skill Level - Top 10% of active members in that skill (85 fletching, 71 smithing, 68 farming, etc.) 4. Quest Points - Top 10% Get the point? I don't think you need to point at a number as that number will shift. However, if you use how you place with all players in Runescape, you get a better idea what is "high". In my opinion the top 10% are at that high level. Skill Level is the best example. Getting 85 fletching is nothing compared to 85 mining. Getting 85 cooking is nothing compared to 85 smithing. Hence the top 10,000th player in each skill will be at very different numbers. To make it fair, I think only active member skills should be considered (less likely to have been botted to that level).

A. What's not going to happen? B. What's fine the way it is? In a discussion, it's good to be clear about what you're talking about.

Don't get distracted by the specifics in the post. This is not about the godsword. It's that all high level items in the game tend to be generated only through combat. Even the D plate takes combat to gather the parts, though a relatively tame level 92 smithing to put them together. Off topic: I wished Jagex had made the D Chain one of the needed items to make a D Plate. Would have kept the value of the D chain higher.

Got your attention? Think that I'm lying and/or have no clue? I'm not posting a rant, just an observation. Consider what qualifies as a player made item. A player sometimes takes ingrediants, sometimes tools, sometimes a specific area then with a certain skill generates an item. For a log, this takes a tree, an axe and the woodcutting skill. For Black Dragonhide Chest, this takes thread, needle, tanned black dragonhide and the crafting skill. For Tele tablets, you need clay, runes, spell, and a lecturn. Etc, Etc, Etc. Back to my catchy title. Why not consider a drop from a monster a player made item? Using a specific skill (atk, range, prayer, etc), you use a specific area (Sara boss), with a specific tool (unicorn, another godsword), and in time generate a Godsword. You can apply this to any and all monsters that drop something. You're using your combat skills to generate items. Great, so I'm stating the not so obvious but makes sense if you think about it type of thing. What's the point Poindexter? Jagex is calling 2009 it's "upgrade" year. Consider that with combat skills in the 70's, you can solo the Kalphite Queen and generate Dragon chain. With cooperation, you can generate a Godsword. Isn't it about time Jagex starts increasing the variety of high level items players can generate outside of combat? Why should the best player made items be delegated to the combat sub-set of skills? Please note, I'm not saying someone with 99 in one skill (like smithing) be able to make a Blood sword. However, what's wrong with a player with 98 in smithing, crafting, firemaking, and mining be able to generate an Obsidian chestplate using a process that takes about 6 hours of time of his time and 2 million gp (gathering material by both purchase and non-tradeable means then processing it). Would that be any different than a player with 98 in Atk, Prayer, Defense and Summoning taking 6 hours and lots of gp in Sharks and prayer pots soloing the Kalphite Queen likely getting 1 or 2 Dragon Chains?

Guess we just have to wait until someone does detailed research on brawling gloves. I'm assuming that they're like SC items in that they last for certain amount of XP. I also assume that you as you get 4x XP for hot spot training, they'll last for more XP than the non-hotspot areas. So is skilling on PvP worlds worth it? Jagex all but screams that we can just skill in hot spots, then do the friendly fire pk'ing for decent drops. Course that means if you see a guy skilling in PvP worlds he likely has 75k on him as loss potential meaning he's a good kill. Now that I think about it, makes the friendly fire pk'ing legitimate as a way to cash in.

For people moaning about his use of 500k - It's a baseline figure. "YOU" can use the exact same calculations for "YOUR" choice of income and time to skill. It's a good chart, it plays off popular threads that wanted players opinion on GP per hour tasks and XP per hour tasks. It helps you decide - should I go the slow route which cost less gp to advance a skill (chop and burn willows), or just chop willows and burn maples. Should I fish monks for more xp, less profit or sharks for less xp, more profit? For it to be more detailed would take the effort of more than one person. One guy may like to bank his logs, another guy may like to burn them. One may bank gold items from Pyramid Plunder, another may just drop them. One may smith items at the blast furnace, another at the bank. To make matters worse, little changes and updates will radically alter the equation (big duh there). So again, good chart. If you have a problem with the numbers, he gave you how he got it so make your own changes to fit your needs.

Oh, sorry. Yeah, the Wallasakie exploit was true. 1500 CBs, 2 Crystal Bows (the decay exploit), prayer gear, telegrab. Lasted me about an hour. Got about 4 skeletal sets, and some high end seeds and decent runes each hour. 400k cost in parts, but sold the sets for 1.6 mill gp (they were 400k each then). Netted about 80k range experience, though Tomisme got much more since his range was 99. Here's the kicker: doing this was not well known, yet Paul Gower all but screamed it on RSOF to do it. He was making fun of people using a cannon at the DK lair when there were much better places to use it. The Crystal bow was you can not alc them on member servers. You could not even withdraw as a not. Thing was on F2P, you could withdraw it as a note and then alc it (like other items, hence an oversight on Jagex's part). So, players would buy crystal seeds for 50k, recharge them for 180k, and alc them for 450k. The Experience lamp from quests is that you can bank them on F2P. I think you're still able to do it. Useful to store XP up for future skills. I'll be honest, I kind of giggle whenever someone says such and such reward is useless the DAY it comes out. There's probably an exploit out there they'll miss (then moan about missing) that takes a bit of thought.

Good point about different weapons for other diaries: Yanille/Orge (location of Mage Guild) - Staff Burthorpe/Trollheim (location of Warrior Guild) - Sword Seers/Ardougne (location of Range Guild) - Crossbow Desert reward should be legs just because of the leg armourer there. Morytania feels like an amulet would be a great reward Grand Diary would be a cape. You have to have done other diaries and be able to wear Quest Cape. Well, maybe for trimming. Don't care about tasks or what the rewards will do. Such suggestions if they're valid should be put in the RSOF, since Jagex might actually use it.

The bug about the stat boost was from Ultima Online (gods, that thing had bugs beyond belief). Runescape had some pretty bad bugs: Insta death at Juna, Repeatable quest reward from Waterfall Quest, Falador Massacre, Pk'ing inside the abyss, One-hit the Kalphite Queen, Long range fire breath, Attacking people outside of Castle Wars from inside, and the all time favorite duplicating bug. Interesting oversights that I recall: XP from barricades, Guthix tea not counting as food, Cannon the Kalphite Queen, banking XP reward lamps. I'm sure there's many more, I'm just drawing a blank. Pretty much every nerf deals with oversights. Interesting exploits: Snapdragon seeds (could buy for 5k each, which potions sold for that price too), Magic tree roots (sell amulet for price of the seed), Unid herbs (buy for 1k each with little chance to get scammed), Chinchompas, Mage stores on server resets (5k runes in stock, minimum price), Veracs at Kalphite Queen, safe spot at DK's and many, many more. These of course were worth millions or great training till word got out. Then either the market flooded or the spots got swarmed.

With the spirit shield that actually takes your prayer points as damage instead of you hp, Jagex is showing forward thinking. Imagine a level 90 armor called Tortoise (or Manta) Armor where the full set has a unique feature: It automatically uses raw tortoise (or manta) from your inventory to counteract damage, every 1 point of healing counteracts 1 point of damage. You don't have to eat. Now, some would call that armor useless. Others might consider it too powerful. Still, you've effectively given a 90 hitpoint warrior the potential of 500 hitpoints. Granted, such armor means you can justify having heavier hitting weapons. Maybe a Blood Sword that uses 10 blood and death runes in the special attack for chance of 150 damage. So yeah, I agree that there's not too much to be gained by lifting the 99 cap. A level 106 takes 26 million xp, while 113 takes 52 million, etc. That's A LOT of effort for little gain. Jagex can compensate by providing unique and diversified weapons and armor and spells.

I'm in the category that one should live with the idea that Jagex will change things at a moments notice (sometimes without the notice). Now, I do think they should announce it when it can get a character killed. About the update. Just hearing that you can make cash off items depending on the GE value stinks of bad news. Anyway, it was not a bug, it was a major oversight. As the game continues to get larger, every single update has untold (and unforseen) consequences. People have got to stop moaning that Jagex does this. They've been doing this for 6 years, at what point are you going to stop suffering from amnesia. Example of bug: Player A realizes that if he takes a stat boost potion, teleport to the wilderness and log-outs, his character keeps the stat boost permanently when he logs back into a server. This is problem with coding, timing, servers and a host of other issues. As said, the Falador Massacre bug is such an example. Example of oversight: Player B realizes he can alchemy noted crystal items on F2P. Another player realizes he can bank his 10k experience lamp on F2P. Both are programmed by Jagex, they just didn't cover eventualities. Example of exploit: Player C realizes he can cannon the five wallasakies, netting 100k range experience and 1 million profit per hour selling full skeletals. This is an exploit since as soon as word gets out, then price of skeletals will drop due to flooding. Ok, guess it just goes to one's viewpoint. Still, this flatpack thing was a big oversight and one that should not have happened.

It's against the spirit of the game, but so are many things. You're playing it in the way it's describe, following the rules JAGEX ITSELF put out you'd have to adhere to to get a good drop. 1. Risk 75k+ in inventory 2. Multiples of 30 Whole minutes spent in danger or hot zones (may be training) 3. Kill player risking 25k+ on him, while you're risking at least 75k. Every drop decreases your potential. Better drops decreases your potential more. That's what Jagex tells us to do. Yeah, you can do the killing on purpose, but Jagex seems cool with it. You still spent time risking cash, and you killed a guy that lost cash. Seems fair to me. Ps: It "feels" like Jagex probably takes other things into account (level differences, how fast you're killing people) to restrict those trying to game the system.

The problem with many people studying a language (and why they suck at it) is they never spend any time in that language outside of class. Anyway, I see this as being beneficial not only to French players (it's more enjoyable to play a game in your native language), but for those that are learning French. Yeah, 5% of the vocabulary used is going to be Runescape specific, but that other 95% will carry over to other areas. For those of you that use Runescape for learning French and German, make sure you're listening to music in that language, and watching TV shows and movies in that language (with that language subtitles on if possible). Now if only they'll do a Japanese version of Runescape, I'll be set (come on Jagex, Japan is the second largest economy in the world with the second largest online presence).

I think the question is this: What is the xp per hour using 90 atk, 70 str versus 70 atk, 90 str. Everything else being equal (Whip, Rune defender, other bonuses, same monster). Is Str or Atk the better skill to train. Yeah, Atk gets you the better weapon, but after that is Str better than Atk. Say a Sword A gives me +5 Str bonus benefit over Sword B. But Sword B has +20 Atk bonus benefit. Sword A - 80 Atk bonus, 85 Str bonus Sword B - 100 Atk bonus, 80 Str bonus Which is the better sword (for training and treasure gathering). I think the Max Hit ego trip relates only to the "kill shot", which is pointless when it comes to long haul training and treasure gathering. This has made Str bonuses all the rage as the benefit is immediate (does not take much to see your max hit). Plus, the max hit is the same on all creatures. The atk benefit takes time to figure out. Even then, to explain the benefit that extra 20 atk bonus gives you it hard to do. Know what! I WISH that Jagex would let the Lunar Spell (scan creature?) give another hint such as "Weak Defense to Range, Slash. Strong Defense to Magic, Crush". Sorry, random thought.

There's an easier way to track this. It works on the assumption that every hit averages to half your max. So, just track the number of rock crabs (or hell hounds, or dragons, or unicorns) you kill and how long it took you. Anyway, the process: Set your attack to the level you want (don't use potions as that alters over time). Get a stop watch, be able to quickly pause during periods of lasped combat (or random events). Attack. Keep an accurate count on how many you kill. Let's say you have a max damage of 24 using a whip. That averages to 12 damage per successful hit. You kill 200 rock crabs over an hour. That's 10,060 damage done (200 kills * 50 hit points + 60 healed). Divided by 12, that's about 838 successful hits in 1 hour. Ok, what does that mean for attack chance? You're using a whip. It attacks 24 times a minute, or 1440 times an hour. 838 hits means a 58% chance to hit.\ For data, just give the following information: Attack skill, Attack bonus. (80 atk, 100 slash bonus) Max damage, and weapon speed (24 max damage, 24 hits a minute) Animal used, number killed, time took to kill (rock crabs 50 hps, 200 killed, 60 minutes). With the above, it's easy to get a attack chance. With that, we only have to look at how well an 80 attack does with 100 bonus, versus one with a 50 bonus. Notes: It's best if the same creature is used (defense level is same). It's better if the creature is not a low level trainer (easier to tell benefits of bonuses this way). It's best if the same attack style is use (slash for instance).

In my experience: Luck = Skill applied over Time (L = S * T) To quote Samuel Goldwyn "The harder I work, the luckier I get." It's easier to dismiss things as Genetics or Luck. Makes you feel better that you have no control in what you don't have.

Well, there's this current idea that's been boiling about how there are no child prodigies, or that every child has the potential to be what we call prodigies. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/nov/15/malcolm-gladwell-outliers-extract You begin to rack up hours on anything, that by the time you approach 10,000 hours you are world class level expert at that "thing". Granted, there's the kicker that each and every hour you have to push yourself. Either you refine what you are doing, or you study something new to add. Reason why no one does this is you pretty much have to like what you're doing. You have to like piano, tennis, golf, basketball, writing, Japanese, whatever to rack up hours like that in a short amount of time (8 hours a day for 4 years or 4 hours a day for 8 years). Then, you're not just in a holding pattern. You're adding new vocabulary (Japanese), new music (piano, flute), new techniques (tennis, golf). Translation, if you found the above as fun as you found Runescape, and you practiced everyday then you'll become an expert as you approach 10,000 hours. Thing is, I doubt many find the above fun enough to dedicate 10,000 hours of their life. Another reason Jagex gave that they will not show hours as it would encourage account selling. Kind of a bs reason, seeing most care about stats and not hours it took to make the stats.

Firemaking Mining Hitpoints (the most ignored skill in the history of Runescape, and nobody gives a darn). Jagex messed with the beacons by omitting one simple thing: Letting us continue getting bonus xp when we relit a beacon that burned out. Think about it, you'd not keep 14 beacons lit for long, but imagine a player running to the bank and back along the network trying to keep 6, 8 or maybe even 10 lit, each time getting a 4k xp bonus. It'd be the FM equivalent of Pyramid Plunder, with MAYBE having. Plus I could higher runners and pay using junk trading. For updating firemaking, it's easy to update. If they allowed bonfires (higher levels can light multiple logs at one time), let the skill have on impact on fighting fire based monsters (resistant to damage, deals better damage). Heck, imagine being able to wield fire weapons. Mining is easy to update if they did little bits like allowing higher levels to get multiple rocks from the same stone, allowed trace mining (prospecting rocks reveal trace element of higher ore, which offers chance to mine it). Create a Dragon or Obsidian pick. Better skill levels let you attack stone and metal based monsters easier. Tie the skills to combat and to each other to allow players to create higher level items. If you think about it, combat is an item creator. Combat creates the best items in the game. So why can't someone with 85 in farming, fletching, crafting, and woodcutting to grow a spirit tree, cut a log from it for a bow frame, cut it down and dig up the root to craft the string and fletch a level 75 bow? Why can't someone with 99 in firemaking, smithing, crafting, and mining not use those skills to mine obsidian ore, smith it with runite and black dragon hide using high heat from 20 mage tree logs on a beacon to create Obsidian Plate mail? It's not rocket science.

Some of the logic shown by Runescape players (ok, people in general) is astounding. Consider that you have kids RANT that a 30 million gp piece of armor does not have better stats, never thinking that it's 30 million in eyes of the players and not the game. Like they say above, time and effort translates into gp. If spending 100k gp nets you 100k xp 30 minutes faster, that's a good bargain as most mid to high level players can make that up in 10 minutes (for you math geniuses, that's 20 minutes saved). The true cost of skill is equated by: Time - how many xp can you get in an hour. This varies depending on your training method. Effort - how much concentration and clicks you have to invest. Cooking is 5 clicks every 90 seconds. Mining is almost 20 clicks a minute (if you're not doing pure essence). GP - how much you spend to advance a skill. It does not matter if you gather the material yourself. If you could have sold it, then it's factored in the cost. If it makes you cash (collection skills), then it a positive aspect. Fun - how much do you enjoy doing that skill. There's no way to guage this. Plus, using the "relaxing" qualifies as I found farming a relaxing skill. Something that's "fun" can over ride all the above. I'm sure I'm missing some things, but the above determine what's the most "expensive" skill to train. Firemaking, thanks to that annoying 2 clicks to advance (plus banking, meaning you're always running 3 screens away) means it's a simple but expensive in time, effort, cost and is just not fun.

Turn on the tv, go to the ESPN channel. There, you'll see the dumbest nerds who don't realize it. Think about it, they dedicate whole hours out of the day and days out of the week watching a piece of cow flesh move up and down a lined field. They don't consider themselves nerds, probably think they're jocks (hint: Jocks are the guys they're watching, you're just an overweight spectator). They memorize stats, fantasize about what if so and so were on so and so's team. Dress up like their favorite player. Paint themselves up. They're nerds, and just as addicted to an ultimately pointless entertainment venue as any of us. So, people want to dress up for fun (and look good doing it), more power to them. I just hate the 300 pound Krispy Kreme moms dressing up like Inuyasha assaulting my already failing eyesight.

What bites is that Jagex could have made D Med and D Chains (and in the future, D Kite) retain value if they made so that you needed a D Med to smith a D Full or a D Chain to smith a D Plate. So now, the d chain and d med drop to even lower prices when a little foresite could have helped out all players.

I hated how I would put in large effort creating some sort of help guide, and the ability to keep it alive dictated babying the darn thing (bumping) two or three times daily. For the longest time*, the suggestion forum was useless. It was spammed with useless junk (a large number were on the "do not suggest" list) and little discussion. SUPPORT LISTS!!!! What a waste of space. As if Jagex would not go through a thread looking at the pros and cons listed by the participants. No, these creators would waste 5 to 8 pages for support list on the "Dragon Light Saber" suggestion. Rant Forum - second most spammed forum. Hard to get a decent discussion going. *That said, others including myself, have had actual impact on game content thanks to the official forums. Sometimes it was fairly rapid (unified rants about the Mage Runes going to 5k in the stores at 1/8th the price every server reset had a change within the month). Some content took six months to a year to come into play (God Wars dungeon was 9 months from my suggestion to implementation, skill capes took almost six months I think). The suggestion forums are now broken up into categories, move slower, and have the high level content sticky in all of them. Yeah, the forums are full of kids that act like they do in the game. There's definite low brow types of debate ("you idea sucks cause you're a low level moron who's not a true pker", "umm, thank you, but what has that to do with a suggestion about armor storage in POH for Repaired Barrows?"). However, it is monitored by Jagex developers. You'll have more impact on the game in the RSOF than here.

Gold bars are smelted not smithed so no sadly. I did this mistake myself went through calculations and all and then realized that they aren't smithed. So how about smithing of the gold helmet and gold bowl? (no, I haven't tried SC yet, so I can't try smithing them myself).