NukeMarine

Hmm, I wonder if EW IV or EW V will involve the ability to craft Soul Armor parts. I can just imagine it now: 80 Smithing, Runecrafting and Magic just to make a Soul Bar. Then, for the magic armor parts, all three of those skills must be at ever higher levels to smith them: 87 for the helm, 92 for the shield, 96 for the legs and 98 in all three to create a soul platebody. Wonder what stats should be like to justify such high requirements and tedious time it'd take to make?

Look up Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength". While doing that 5x5 routine in Deadlift, Squat, Bench Press, Overhead Press and Power Cleans, in addition to a normal diet, drink about a gallon of milk a day. You'll put on mass and raw strength that translate to better overall physical fitness when combined with another fitness routine. Don't do bicep curls. It only makes you good at doing bicep curls which is pointless. Want to build biceps functionally? Do pull-ups. If you can do a pull-up with 90 pounds on your back, you'll be surprised at the size of your biceps (and lats and shoulders and upper-back).

First things first, you're not going to find all you need or can use in one thread on a role-playing forum. Personally, after doing high-school football, Marine Corp, endurance training in the Navy, and finally CrossFit, I found that CrossFit and variants of it worked GREAT for military type lifestyles such as ROTC. You'll find good info at www.crossfit.com 1. Increasing strength helps in ALL other areas of physical fitness (speed, endurance, stamina, agility, power, mobility, etc) with exception of flexibility in a small part. Good way to get mass is follow Mark Rippetoe's book "Starting Strength" which is about 40 minutes a day of strength training 5 days a week. In addition, you'll be drinking a gallon of milk day (trust me, milk will put more muscle on a beginner faster and more effectively than steroids). 2. Interval training: Usually you see this with running, but I use it with various types of exercises to great effect on my endurance. Basic idea is about 2 minutes of some exercise done as fast as you can. Rest 2 to 3 minutes then do another 2 minute or so exercise again to full intensity. Record your time on all rounds. Here's an example of my routine when I started it up in Africa early this year. CrossFit Miles though I now adapted to include Louie Simmons conjugate method in the mix. With just the above (base strength increasing, coupled with variety of endurance intervals) you should find it exactly what you need to get strong and ripped over the summer. You'll also find that your long distance running endurance improves even though you're not running everyday. Reason being, while running helps you get better at running (endurance), it doesn't build any other aspects. While during interval training can build endurance, strength, speed, mobility, etc. In Runescape terms, it like doing Dungeoneering which improves all your skills at once while just doing agility courses only builds agility XP (yeah, kind of a stretch but you get the point). PS: Get an live coach that knows what he's doing. Training yourself can cause problems even if you know what you're doing. If there's a CrossFit affiliate in your area, maybe check them out.

Well, there would be no discontinued items on such a server as none of the characters would have been around for the Christmas events all those years ago. There'll be no bunny ears, yo-yos, zombie heads, etc. either I guess. My main point was that such items have a major effect on the economy would be interesting to see what would happen if they were obtainable elsewhere and thus not "rare" or something. About as much impact on the economy as Toy Horses and the Flying Dragon Kite you can buy from Diango ie no impact what so ever. Now, Jagex could offer these up to players with accounts that were active at that time in RSC history as an untradeble purchase from Diango, but I think it's best to keep tradeable discontinued items out of a new server economy.

Well, there would be no discontinued items on such a server as none of the characters would have been around for the Christmas events all those years ago. There'll be no bunny ears, yo-yos, zombie heads, etc. either I guess. You know, thinking on that, although there won't be discontinued items there should be no reason for Jagex to give your character access to holiday untradeables if your RS character on the normal server also has it. It is all the same account anyway and has minimal impact on game play. Be a way to show you have an old account even though it's on a fresh character. I'll add that to the first post.

I don't think people won't believe that you suggested it, it's just that you were just one of the probably thousands of players to suggest it. I highly doubt you were the first and the one they listende to, because: 1. They implemented it mostly for other reasons than you stated, and 2. Because it would probably take a lot longer than half a year to create something as complex as the GE and implement it. Well, that's the problem with the suggestions is Jagex doesn't give at least a little credit if it originated in the forum. Yeah, it's easy to offer suggestions where the real work is in the thousands of man-hours of development of said idea. Still, why have the player suggestion forum if you're not going to acknowledge it's help in the process (and the person who proffered the idea. In addition, there's no way to call up a lost thread to at least offer proof that "Hey, I did suggest this for a number of weeks on the forums" after it bites page 50. So unless someone remembers to back up your claim, you kept screen shots/copies of the thread, or there's some 3rd party archive then you're SOL if some asks for proof. I remember 3-Hit-U's thread about skill as it was still active when the capes were released. Those were the days where one could post a Suggestion in the Rants Forum to give it more visibility as it wouldn't be bumped off page 50 as fast. Some of my own suggestions that were implemented - Remove the 5000 rune refresh during reboots at mage stores (posted in the rants thread and was still active when that happened), - God Wars Dungeon. The high level suggestion thread where I posted that was still up after the release of GWD so it was easy to prove this. Yeah, it included all the major aspects: Frozen armies of the god wars becoming unfrozen, battling each other and even players, must sneak or fight your way past to the various base camps where Generals and their Lieutenants await. Defeat them numerous times for claim to their armor and even title. I was a bit more evil in that I wanted it in the actual wilderness where other players could also attack you. - Slayer axe. Mod Craddock loved the idea of a tree that required a slayer level, though I offered as more of a high level item to eventually lead to dark bows. Suggestions that were popular but not implemented. - Combo skills: players with 80+ in multiple skills offered abilities to make higher level items. Actually voted top suggestion by other players in the high level thread. - Assassination: players with agility and attack levels equal or above thieving level for an NPC gets option to "assassinate" for quick kill, plunder and refresh - Crystal Axe: more of the mechanics in that it degrades when you miss getting a log, making it degrade faster on higher level trees. - Dwarven Recycle Center: melt down old metals to get reusable bars - Paid NPCs Runners: May have become the Butler in Construction Suggestion/rant not popular but at least Andrew commented on it: - Let Steel and Iron Dragons drop notes instead of bars so players will pick them up. In hindsight, suggesting that metal dragons drop metal scales that a Dwarf NPC would convert to bars for a fee would have been easier to swallow and in keeping with the leather hide types. I only remember this because Andrew said it didn't seem "realistic" for a dragon to drop noted items. It was much easier for a good idea to stand out from the crowd a few years ago. Now, I don't think there's much that can be offered for a radical change. Unless one is on constantly bumping not many are going to notice it. Those few months though where Mod Craddock actively moderated the High Level Suggestion forum were enjoyable to participate in though. You felt that Jagex was not only listening but utilizing suggestions made by players.

That's an administrative issue. I'm sure, like anything else, that as more players play on such servers Jagex would dedicate more servers to the issue. No more complicated than when Jagex would add another PvP or BH server based on how many players utilize that aspect of the game. As for high level items, that gets complicated and cannot be predicated with certainty. Let's say 50,000 players decide to devote a large amount of their playing time on a fresh server. It'll still few weeks or months to get the base skills up high enough to start getting high level monster drop weapons (barrows, whips, god swords, dragon weaps, etc). It's not like RSC where the only source of a high level weapon was the guy with 99 smithing making an R2H. In RS now, getting level 40 weapons and armor are rewards from quests. Level 60 weapons (dragon and obsidian) can be bought or dropped. Some level 70 items like barrows, could enter the game the first week just due to players being familiar with that mini-game, while the whip will take over a month or two to come out. Then comes what type of "expensive" is it going to be. You won't have trillions of gp flowing into the game like on regular RS. There's no F2P slave support gathering yews and ore cheaply. There'll be no 92 RC creating a nature running market for quite a while. So a million gp on a fresh server would be like 100 million on the normal servers. Again, there's no way to predict the final economic results. However, it'll be fun to get there. Some things will not be as popular such Manage thy Kingdom because that's closely tied to the economy of another world. Other things become popular again (mining for example) because an 85 mining is now a unique quality in the early months of such a server.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I realize little to no changes are best. I edited my first post to reflect that. There'll still be some problems on such new servers. For example, Construction would be a messed up skill just because all the prices were based a high GP economy. Still, even that's reasonable as it'll be an early money sink.

Submitted lots of ideas back in the day, some that even got accepted (well, I can't prove that since Jagex doesn't state which player initiated an idea that led to an update).

Here's some other food for thought. Without the slave labor we call F2P, all the production resources on a Fresh Server (yes, I keep changing the terms for a new server) will draw a higher value. That means EVERY new player on the server is a valuable commodity that can demand a reasonable price for iron, essence, logs, maples, fish, etc. The easiest version is compare essence to pure essence. One needs membership to enter the system so it calls a much higher price. Now, that means getting 99 in some skill is not as easy as gathering cash. There'll likely not be enough material harvested in the system to get anyone to 99 in any skill for quite a while. The benefits of low level producers (members starting out) will be better on new servers than old as you point out. So yeah, it'll be a more stable economy even if they leave in high alchemy. Actually, that only became a problem thanks to bots doing essence runs and harvesting yews (dumped massive amounts of GP into the system).

Jeez, This is not difficult to solve even with a 32 bit system: x10 Coins (Mith Coin?) trade 10gp for 1 x10 coin x100 Coins (Addy Coin?) trade 100gp or 10 Mith coins for 1 Addy coin. x1000 Coins (Rune Coin?) trade 1000gp, 100 Mith coins, or 10 Addy coins for 1 Rune coin For the introduction of just 3 items that are trade locked to the above GP value, you've effectively made new max amount 2 Trillion gp without messing with any programming. Just have any banker or maybe an NPC at the Grand Exchange be the "seller" who offers to exchange at the above rates. K I S S

Speaking of which, isn't it about time Jagex made it to where ALL the rune rocks respawn time are attached to the player? Ie, it's always there till you mine it (still shows as good if someone else does) and even if you switch worlds it's still out till XX minutes pass. Considering there are a few rocks within teleport distance, the respawn time will need to be balanced. Yep, turn rune rocks into a profitable diversion and distraction.

Not quite, that was for selling servers for RSC with options of game play open to the administrators. Don't know if that was completely dropped but I never heard anything past the developer's blog. The idea of a Runescape New World of course could only be done by Jagex as it's the RS regular game, and will need to be updated regularly and be attached to player accounts. Saying they make plenty as is is not a good rebuttal against nor a good argument for. Profit will be a motive, but it should not stand fully in the way of a good idea nor allow for a bad idea. Something tells me though that such an idea is not only a good idea, but will be profitable also. There are attractive points to older and younger accounts. Again, the most attractive to older accounts is the idea of a fresh world where strong knowledge of game mechanics give you the upper hand. On the current economy, a strong bank says more about who gets the upper hand. In addition, a new account may like the idea of being on close to even footing to those who've had accounts for 3 to 8 years. You got to give me more to work with if you expect a lucid reply to your post. I can't even tell if you were replying to me or someone else.

I never played Diablo, but I can see your point. In fact, I think it was realizing there are thousands of players on the current high scores that just don't play anymore yet still impact the rankings. Hell, I once suggested that there should not only be a "member's high score" for the skills that are also F2P, but a "Active player's" high score where only players that played within the last six months are listed. Truth be told, I'm more interested in how the economy would develop on such a world where you don't have all the resources being gathered by F2P accounts. I'd think that getting a reasonably high level on such a world would merit greater respect as you do have to depend much more on your own abilities. The more I think about it, the it seems Jagex should do this. Turn about 5 servers into a closed off world. As time and popularity and use goes on, add more servers including PvP and Bounty Hunters. For "theme worlds" maybe let one server represent multiple themes. Much later, should this second world become a force of nature in its own right, create a third world like I posted about above. To help stem the tide of new character accounts, Jagex could even limit these servers to member accounts that are at least 6 months old then slowly ease that restriction to be any member account.

Omali, thanks for the reply. I edited the first post with a TL:DR, and added a new thought. If such servers existed, Jagex could update them with two week lag. Essentially turns the normal Runescape into a million player beta test so all players on the Second World servers would have a relatively bug free update (in addition to having two weeks to prepare for it). Heck, they can even be told the exact date and time since surprise is not a factor. The reaction to such prior knowledge on the second world (economy impacts, playing patterns) could help Jagex decide if a "beta server" could be created for update testing. Would make players like Qeltar happy to be sure.

The MMO I was thinking about was Ultima Online myself. There you had isolated worlds where the economy and players on one server had no impact on another server. That was an extreme situation and one I did not like, which is ironic as this discussion simulates that very idea in a way. However, it'd be an isolated world where there can be more than one server attached to it (based on player load). So let's step back one step. What if it was just an isolated world where to play on it you had to start with a fresh character? Everything else about it is a RS server except there's no F2P and the Grand Exchanged is closed off to only the same world's server? It's still your account just that it's a different character (same name, different stats and equipment) like your RS Classic character is kept separate. Would such a group of servers be feasible and profitable? The other point you bring up is extremely important. I agree that if Jagex has to divide resources to upkeep two parallel worlds then it's not worth it. However, my question still is if Jagex can implement changes to this new world and still allow for parallel updating, what are some reasonable changes to implement on such a world. I offered up some of my ideas but really it boils down to 1. No changes - Just a new RS server closed off world that updates parallel to regular RS 2. Some changes - A few tweaks to take advangtage of a new world, and still updates parallel to regular RS with minimal fuss. 3. Major changes - Major tweaks to the entire gaming mechanic that means divided efforts in developing any update. Personally I'm for choice number 2, though number 1 would still be extremely popular to many members playing RS. In fact, choice number 1 could happen in almost no time at all. Choice 3 is something that will not happen as Jagex might as put all that effort to creating a new game. Also, thanks for the intelligent dissent. Ideas cannot be developed without reasonable critique to smooth out problems. PS: In the long term, should such an idea prove very popular, Jagex can slowly introduce new isolated Worlds (once every 3 years for example) which can give not only to new members but guys that would like to see what a fresh start a chance to see what it's like on a fresh world.

That's a reasonable statement. You have a server with no access to all the stuff easy to get on normal servers. In a way, it is like the RS Classic server as to get an account on that you start with fresh stats and inventory. Plus, yes, I think some things would be changed to be more cumbersome (the high alc for example). Again, it's like being relegated to trying to level in RS Classic with only a Runepick when you've gotten used to a Dragon Pick. However, I don't think it would be as dead as RS Classic. Remember, it's still Runescape so it'll get updated every time Runescape is updated. That right there changes the palatability of the idea. Players start new MEMBERS accounts all the time trying to play RS in a different manner (skillers, pures, RPG's, whatever) so I think there's no doubt that players would play on a Blank Slate server. Downside to all this is that in a year, then such servers would have built up internal economies and own issues developing. Still, I like the idea and I bet others would love it.

Guys, don't get too distracted by my suggestions. That's just a wild hair to go along with the idea of a closed off RS server where there's no F2P or 8 years worth of material thrown into the economy. As such, suggestions reflect what I thought would have worked with RS if it had happened early on. Well, I guess you'd either have to make them, buy them or trade for them yourself just like you would in any MMORPG. All those items weren't magically there at the beginning all those years ago, so they can make a come back. It'll just be that items you found as easier to buy than to get (essense) all of a sudden might be better to collect yourself. That's the beauty, if such a server exists nothing is broken because all the other RS servers exist. That's why PvP servers had minimal impact on other servers (aside from all the gp being dumped into the economy). New members can just play on a normal server which allows world hopping. As for the combat level being exponential, there's a reason behind that idea. Your current combat level represents only what you are if you carry ZERO items. A level 138 with nothing else will trounce a level 100. Now, give the level 100 armor, weapons and food and the results flip flop. So in part, your true combat level is based on what you are wielding and not your base stats. Second, your base stats determine what you can wear, but that only happens in multiples of 10. A person with 69 in all their stats wielding max armor MIGHT beat a person with only 60's in all stats wearing same equipment. HOWEVER, that first person gets 70 then they get access to MUCH better equipment allowing him to devastate the player limited only to Dragon/Obsidian weapons. Ok, this is more an argument for another discussion about the combat system, but I think there is merit to an exponential based combat level. Because smithing is limited to a level 40 item (Runite) while Crafting allows players to make up to a level 70 armor (black dragonhide). Around 2004 before the barrows, that made Range the top dog in the combat triangle, on top of a level 50 weapon Magic Shortbow with special that took only 35%. Now, I'm all for players being able to make high level weapons and armor (see my thread about combo-skills) however that was and still is an unbalance after effect. Because it throws too much money into the economy is all. Personally, I'd rather alchemy had not existed at all. However, if Jagex had had two magic skills (support and combat based) then we would have players becoming magic killing machines by killing stuff. For now, players can become magical warriors by turning paper into coins and teleporting in front of Camelot. It's a NEW account (no XP, no items, no nothing) on a closed off MEMBER's server. That account CANNOT travel to normal RS server. You give up membership then you cannot play that account. This is not a new idea, as RS Classic is now members only IIRC. Now, how should it be approached? Is it a benefit of having a member's account that you can create one new account on this RS Blank Slate server? Is it a new account all in itself? I'm more for it being a unique account (ie you pay for it) only to test the financial feasibility of rebooting RS on a larger scale. If you get enough players that enjoy such a server, then there's no reason to not expand it. However, that means a smaller user base which hurts the MMORPG aspect. Again, don't get distracted by my suggestions. That's all they are. The main point is would a Rebooted server be a viable idea. As such, what else can be changed to make the game more enjoyable on such a server.

This discussion is about a Runescape server, not an upgrade ala Classic to RS2. Any changes done to Runescape (quests, skills, areas) would also be done to that new account server. It could not and would never be about a RS3 transition. A transition means you bring all the baggage from RS2 and RS Classic (Rares, economic busters, established in game wealth, outdated or overpowered items) that's built up over the last 8 years. Runescape is how it is in part because it's accounting for things that were done eight years ago without the benefit of hindsight. Another part is things would be done differently back then if the technology existed back then to let it happen (greater server memory, stable programming code, etc). As for the changes I suggested, that's the point of this discussion. There's lots of things wrong with Runescape that cannot be cured without a blank slate. Obviously, Jagex is not going to destroy it's user base by bank and stat wiping everyone. A blank slate server though is possible and open to those that are willing to pay for a new account to use it. If you have a blank slate, what changes do think should be made to the benefit of gameplay? If you think about it, Dungeoneering is a small example of this. You go into that mini-game/skill only with your skills and nothing else. As such, Jagex was able to tweak the combat triangle in addition to armor, weapons and other items because it didn't have to worry about the impact on PvP or how it affected teleporting in level 30 wilderness. The idea of a blank slate server is just logical extension of that idea. I honestly think there are RS members that would purchase a new account to try out such a world where aspects of F2P and remnants of RS Classic and 8 years of RS is not a factor.

**Edit: Here's a TL:DR cleared up version of the post based on the replies** Jagex could offer a few servers that are sort of a "Second World of Runescape" where member accounts can create a brand new character (similar to how a new character on RSC servers are done now). These servers are self contained so will have its own Grand Exchange, High Scores lists and no free to play or eight years of impact on the server economy. These servers will be updated with the same RS updates, just two weeks later (Beta Phase). **End TL:DR** This is not necessarily a mental exercise. This is something Jagex might consider in the future. The thought came about when considering Classic Runescape Server, the BH and PvP Servers, and the Dungeoneering game (a mini RS in some ways). The idea was: So what if Jagex created a server (or servers) where only new member characters can play on? The servers would be closed off just like the Classic RS server is in that your character cannot go to a regular Runescape server (you can chat with other servers though). It'd have Grand Exchange but even that would only trade with other closed off servers. That in itself sounds likely. I can imagine if that were all, that many would create fresh characters and try their hands at this virgin world as it were. However, if Jagex bothered to do such a thing, would they change up how the game is played? Do you need to keep certain game mechanics the same on a Runescape server that has no characters that were around during Classic? So here are some questions: 1. What do you think of the idea of a Runescape Blank Slate server? 2. What would you change about how Runescape is played on such a server (skills, NPC's, locations, quest, rewards, combat, etc.) Personally, I would love to see the game mechanics on such a server radically altered (ex: Protection prayers require 70+ prayer level and only protect 1/2 damage from NPC's, etc.). However, that means such a server cannot be updated with new Runescape content easily. **EDIT: I deleted a list of suggested changes as it distracted from the main discussion of Fresh Servers, so that's what some replies are talking about** Here's some points made and suggested: 1. If you have a member account, then you can make a new character on Runescape: New World (maybe limit to accounts 6 months or older at first). 2. The trade limit for your character is based on whichever of your characters on that account has the highest quest points. 3. The New World will have it's own High Scores screen and Grand Exchange prices based on the economy of those servers only. 4. The New World servers are updated two weeks after the normal servers get an update (yep, the regular servers become the beta test for the New World servers). 5. If your character on the original servers have untradeable holiday items (Bunny Ears, Yo-Yo's, Chicken Suit, etc) then your fresh character on the same account gets access to them. No, the 'rares' will not be making a comeback as a tradeable commodity.

In this instance, I think it's fair for Jagex to consider awarding a fair amount of XP to anyone in the middle of dungeoneering when the system update warning happens. It already knows how much XP you've gained in the dungeon just based off the small amount you get from leaving early. In other words, you'll get the xp you'd get for leaving the dungeon early, but no penalties are applied since it was jagex's update that kicked you out. Sounds balanced and fair (I'd say Fair and Balanced but that's trademarked apparently).

Be interesting if there can be a PvP variant of Dungeoneering (no, not SC). That'll really show if the combat triangle is balanced inside dungeoneering. Also make for a nice proving ground to further tweek the triangle.

Kind of hard to fault Jagex for following a model that seems to be working for them. Instead of spending millions in Q&A and customer feedback during development stage for large releases, they spend little on Q&A and depend on player feedback for many small releases. For most computer games, a release is like a Hollywood movie: millions spent in development over a couple of years so there's tons of screening and feedback and tweeks and rewrites and reshoots. Jagex is sort of doing it like a weekly TV show where there's weeks and maybe months of development with a bit of change after the fact when problems and feedback come in. There's no beta testing for the same reason there's no need for nation wide pre-screenings for next week's episode of Lost, just not necessary. In fact, a Beta test will reveal surprises that's part of the reason people stay on members. HOWEVER!!!! Jagex does do very large releases now and again. Usually these are skill based but sometimes it's other large content like a Quest or Mini-game (Kind of all three with Dungeoneering). In cases like that, there's merit in having limited Beta testing. In other words, don't Beta test every update but be willing to Beta test major updates. To control disclosure, I wonder if there's some way to put a "Graphical Coding Identifier" so that you can tell which account a screenshot came from in a way to further control leaks. Beta testing Dungeoneering would have had zero impact on the economy as there's nothing economy based about it. I'd argue that's one update that would have truly benefited all with a Beta test.

Because 99 is hard enough as it is, and because if the max level was increased to 120, that would defeat the purpose of a 99? The point of having 99 in a skill, is you can do everything that skill offers. Or do it the best, such as mining the fastest, hitting the highest hits, etc. The point of a 99 isn't that you have level 99, it's that you have the highest possible level. You do realize 99 is an arbitrary number right? Likely it was chosen at first due to display limitations (2 digits versus 3 digits). There was no "point" other than that and some other programming mechanics. Anything beyond that is creating reason after the fact. Also, getting 99 in any skill is not "hard", it's time consuming aka "tedious". However, as time goes on the ability to raise levels in skills goes on, thus it's in the interest of Jagex to raise the cap to another arbitrary number, in this case 120 though it's limited to 126 or 127. Should they change the coding to allow larger numbers (current limit is 256 million or something due to decimal counting of xp, right,?) they're given even greater ability to adapt. I read you argument, I just don't see it as reasonable in this case.

Definitely will be interesting to hear what they plan to do with Dungeoneering with the rest of Runescape. All those Dungeons out there so it's just a matter of creativity. Remember how getting higher agility was finally cool thanks to various short cuts in dungeons. Same concept can work here on a bigger level. Don't see why anyone would hate the skills to go up to 120. First, it'll help spread out the high scores again. Second, it'll help bypass the problem Jagex created when it let skilling become more faster over time. Personally, I'd like them to open up each skill at separate times (maybe once a month over the next two years), where each skill at every level above 99 offering a cool and tangible benefit commiserate with the time and effort involved to get it. PS: About the firemaking beacons being what became of Wilderness Tag: Makes complete sense. Only real failure of firemaking beacon mini-game is it doesn't let you keep lighting beacons that burn out. Would have been cool trying to constantly keep 10+ beacons lit up where the difficulty justified the XP gain.