NukeMarine

Perhaps not. I mistated the power of pures. Pures work best in the duel arena where they want you to not use armor or prayer. The combat boost for str/atk of 70 using a whip makes it like having 150 atk/str. That's +100 to combat level plus 20 for his con (120). For a level 50 atk/str using full rune, he's about 95 atk/str in addition to 260 total def. That's about 120 combat level once prayer and hits are added in. Sorry about giving that example. Should have added the caveat about not using armor which does balance things considerably, not to mention prayer. Pures had more power back when armor was limited to adamant and/or rune when rune armor was much, much harder to obtain (pures were god like when mage and range both added individual, not if greater than atk/str). As prayers, armor and weapons advance then getting balanced skills is not a detriment. However, this does not invalidate my humble offer. Consider that the BEST items in the game requiring enourmous investment of time and/or money (divine, chaotics, Nex items, etc.). In the current system, getting these items mean a HUGE boost in potential without any increase in one's combat level. This will become even more apparent when Level 90 and 99 items come into the game. As now it's items that more and more determining one's combat potential, and cost instead of xp being the limiting factor in obtaining that potential then it's useful to take those items into account. Wield full torva and chaotics and divine makes you a much higher combat level than one in full barrows.

Ok, this has been ponied out twice now, and I'm calling foul. To say it isn't broken assumes: A level 138 using melee utilizing all equipment availble in the game (limited by inventory slots) has better chance against a level 138 ranger and worse chance against a level 138 mage. Likewise, to say it isn't broken assumes: A level 57 with 60 atk, 60 str, 80 range, 80 mage, 10 def, 60 con, 0 prayer has an equal chance against a level 57 with 40 str, 40 atk, 52 rng, 52 mag, 40 def, 40 prayer and 40 con, with each decked out with the best equipment and items they can use. IF the above cases are true, then you're right. Nothing needs to be changed. Of course, under the current system, you can't have a level 138 mage UNLESS you raise atk and str. That alone tells you something is wrong in RS land. That the pure can use whips, ancients and plethora of other high level items also tells you that equal levels does not mean equal combat potential. Take away all the items, then yeah, they might have an equal shot. However, kindly offer up reasons why you think it's not broken. Perhaps I'm wrong, and merely misunderstood people when they talked about op pures or about the combat triangle being broken.

You don't have to physically say "You're dumb" for it to be apparent that you think they are. It also isn't just on this thread I've noticed it. Don't like to much into it, it happens on like every other thread that's made here. If anything, people being jerks makes it more fun to read. I think in this case, he was refering to one of the choices and not the person offering the choices. Back on subject: I included firemaking because of the hand cannon, agility because of energy for running, and herblore due to non-tradeables. Heck, in reality, quest completion gets you access to some nice gear and abilities but that can be accounted for what you have in inventory or what books you have called up. In reality, if Jagex modified the way they approach the combat potential (level), they can also make other skills have direct impact on combat. Imagine if higher woodcutting gives you better bonus when using axe based weapons for example. Anyway, thanks for all the feedback so far.

Believe it or not, it was the Barrow Brothers and the evidence that their combat level was based on the idea of having 100 in atk, str, and hitpoints that initially excited this idea many years ago (I made a thread here called 'What would your NPC level be?' or something like that because of it). These guys were more powerful than their level suggested because they counted as having armor and weapons, unlike most other npc's. It didn't take much to develop the idea that players have a better combat pontential than just their skills suggest. Really, Herblore if they modified a bit can be like Prayer and Summoning. Been discussed before, but it's a simple matter of adding more untradeable but beneficial potions at the lower end of the skill. The other things are really, really iffy though Agility, Firemaking, and Slayer have a slight impact on combat potential in some ways. Now, if Jagex allowed that, they can actually be more creative in how other skills can come into play in combat. I know, I mention it as being complicated, but that's mainly meaning for a player to keep track of it. However, it's not complicated for the game system to calculate. In addition, I think allowing it updated on the minute would be cool. As for hybriding, that would not change as the system I talk about looks at what you have in your inventory and what you're actively wearing. That's why it undercuts pures and sand baggers in the duel arena. About the duel arena, it'd be cool if you see how the changes in rules affect both you and your opponents combat potential. Talk about removing a major method of scamming. Again, I doubted there'd be 100% agreement. Thanks for the reasoned replies.

I don't think it's that complicated. For direct offense and defense it's easy, as you can see that when you bring up your equipped screen. This just puts those numbers into an easier to understand combat pontential. At the top of the equip screen you see all three combat pontentials. By your player name would be your highest combat potential (maybe even a little symbol for the type you are). Only difference is, it's not based on what you actually equipped but what you have in inventory (and can potentially equip fast). The complicated part comes from regenerative or boosting potions and foods. Even then, it's not that complicated. Being able to restore prayer and lifepoints in a big factor in combat. Likewise, boosts are so important that PvPrs had overloads removed from PvP. Anyway, the way it works now is just not good. A level 138 with Barrows is just not as powerful as a level 138 in full Torva, divine and chaotic. Radically different combat pontential despite the same level.

**On page 3, was talking to another about this being more important for those in the endgame of RS ie those with 99 in all combat skills now looking for the best items. Of note, by letting items affect combat level on the theory the better then the more expensive, players with the highest combat levels in the game are carrying the best items. As such, they can only be attacked in the wild by players with nearby combat levels ie equally expensive items in inventory. Perhaps a point to consider, but remember that it would then impact lower levels** With the return of the wilderness and free trade, all players are going to be impacted by the Combat Formula again. As such, now is as good as time as any to say that the thing is still as broken as it was since 2001. It's been my argument that the current Combat Formula only represents the combat potential of a unarmed, unarmored player with nothing in inventory. You should fair as well against such a player as the equivalent NPC with the same combat level. Adding foods means he has higher life points. Adding armor means he has higher defense (somewhere in the triangle). Adding a weapon means better atk/str or range or mag. Adding potions means boosts to various combat skills. Put it this way, what's scarier: Steel Dragon or a fully equipped Level 138? So, for discussion value, should the combat formula be revamped in such a way to take into account more than just skills? In other words, have a Combat Potential based on skills and inventory. My opinions on the matter: -Each leg of the combat triangle can have it's potential displayed for the player -Highest potential and type can be displayed to other players -Game balance mechanics: Every minute outside of wilderness, your highest combat level achieved in that minute will be displayed -Game balance: In the Wilderness, combat level can immediately increase (friend gives better weapon). It will reflect true level if out of combat for one minute like above. -This can fix the combat triangle, as any superior weapon, spell or bow introduced would increase the combat level of whoever wielded it. -Removes any benefits of pures, as their true combat potential is displayed. -Some detriments as it's very volatile. Changes with every bite of food. Prayer, Summoning and Herblore have enormous impact on changing levels making this a complicated process. -Detriment - spells, depending on the book, represent more power than the mage level suggests. Access to these can be determined by book and runes in inventory. FACR (Freq. Answers to Common Replies) R- This is too complicated A- Agree. Instead of worrying if minor skills or food could boost levels, let's just concentrate on weapons and armor. We can all agree that adding better weapon makes it like you have more str/atk. Likewise having better armor is like having better def. In addition, these are easy to see when looking at the equipment status screen. R- Why did you list firemaking, slayer, dungeoneering, etc A- Some quests or skills offer an item or latent ability that offers some advantage in combat. This was most notable with Extreme Potions, though other things like fire cape, RFD gloves, chaotics also come about. Anyway, as this is too complicated, I think Jagex can fix matters just by letting weapons and armor affect combat potential. R- Levels would change just by switching armor or dropping it. A- It's based on what's in your INVENTORY, which is both equipped and unequipped armor. Switching armor in the middle of a fight won't change how the game views your combat potential. In addition, there's also a time gap of 1 minute OUTSIDE of combat before you combat potential will be considered lower. However, if you pick up more powerful weapons and armor then your combat potential will raise immediately. R- It's fine just the way it is A- Depends on if you think the Wilderness levels are a good idea. If you think being gradually able to attack outside your level as you go deeper, then I don't think things are fine. Back when Wild levels were developed, a Level 126 was limited to Rune armor. Back then, difficult to obtain high level combat skills seperated players so seperating the Wildy based only on that helped a lot w/ exception of pures. Now, large number of players are 138 (or at least 99 atk/str/mag/rng/def/con), but it's the armor and weapons that determine who's the most deadly. Instead of skills, now it's time and gp in getting the equipment that seperates power of players. As such, adding in armor and weapons to determine who can attack who in the lower and upper wild makes sense. Here's a really good benefit to this: High level armor costs more in time and/or money. It stands to reason, that 138's that wear the best armor and weapons have the highest combat potential. In the current system, a 138 not risking anything can attack him and has a slight chance of killing him with no risk. However, in a new system only those with nearly the same combat level can attack a fully equipped 138. In other words only a guy risking equally high level equipment could attack him. If you think about it, it offers method to reliably risk high level gear as those you can attack at your combat potential will drop high level gear if you kill them. Now, if you think gradual increase of the wild is a bad thing, that it should be free-for-all in the wilderness, then combat levels are a moot point. In such situations, it's all about who can kill who. R- What about NPC aggressiveness? This will radically change that, such as the dogs in Brimhaven. A- The new NPC's in Nex's dungeon actually have a different aggressiveness rules. IF you can bring the relevant combat stance (mage, range, melee) in defense to above +200, then NPC's of that attack type will not attack you. Jagex could easily apply this to all NPC's in the game, so now being attacked depends not on your level but on how much defense you have against their attack.

Careful with such a silly argument, as it can be used against you in a court of reason. First, it's obvious that combat level does not reflect the ability to do damage. A level 126 from five years ago could not do anything near the damage (or resist it) of a level 126 of today. It is, and always will be, the equipment, food, potions, etc that determines true combat potential. Second, many, many things that impact combat potential are not related to one's combat skills (easy example are barrow gloves). Third, your argument would lose merit if the Chaotics had a level 40 atk/70 dng requirement. Better yet, Jagex could say one needed a 40 in all the direct combat skills (atk, rng, str, mag, def) to use overloads to undercut your silly pre-req argument. Reality is the combat level system is sorely broken. Pretty much, it only means anything as you gain 10 skill levels, as that gives you access to exponentially better equipment. Right now, a level 100 going against a level 100 does not tell you a darn thing. Jagex could easily put together a more fair set-up that takes into account what players actually carry and wield (food, potions, weapon and armor). Imagine this: the instant one walks into the wilderness they're given a virtual combat level for all three attack types based on not just skills but equipment and armor. However only the highest one shows above you. So, walk in with load of sharks, full torva, god sword and you'd have a combat level of 300+ in melee. Heck, pures advantage would be neutered because the system looks at their powerful weapons and adds it to their combat level. That's the ticket. Have Jagex revamp the combat level so it takes into account skills and carried equipment, then alter rules of wilderness based on that (maybe levels 1 to 100 now). I like the idea, but there could be problems depending on the way it works. If the combat level is determined when a player enters the wilderness and is fixed, people could find ways of exploiting this by going in and have someone else give them armour/weapons/other supplies to keep a low cb level. On the other hand, if the combat level remains flexible, someone's cb would decrease when he eats or drops his armour, making him unattackable by other players his cb level, meaning he could escape a fight by 'altering' his combat level. True, a system can be exploited. In a better system the exploits are easy to cover up or fix. For example, you gave a good problem with the system offered. I think an easy fix would be that combat level can go up but can't go down in the wilderness. In addition, there can be a 10 second window to let combat continue between players even if they are outside allowed levels because a player ran to lower level or changed his level for whatever reason. Another thing that can help is that your combat level can be re-evaluated after 1 minute without combat. Sad thing is that Jagex will just keep the combat system that was made 9 years ago.

Careful with such a silly argument, as it can be used against you in a court of reason. First, it's obvious that combat level does not reflect the ability to do damage. A level 126 from five years ago could not do anything near the damage (or resist it) of a level 126 of today. It is, and always will be, the equipment, food, potions, etc that determines true combat potential. Second, many, many things that impact combat potential are not related to one's combat skills (easy example are barrow gloves). Third, your argument would lose merit if the Chaotics had a level 40 atk/70 dng requirement. Better yet, Jagex could say one needed a 40 in all the direct combat skills (atk, rng, str, mag, def) to use overloads to undercut your silly pre-req argument. Reality is the combat level system is sorely broken. Pretty much, it only means anything as you gain 10 skill levels, as that gives you access to exponentially better equipment. Right now, a level 100 going against a level 100 does not tell you a darn thing. Jagex could easily put together a more fair set-up that takes into account what players actually carry and wield (food, potions, weapon and armor). Imagine this: the instant one walks into the wilderness they're given a virtual combat level for all three attack types based on not just skills but equipment and armor. However only the highest one shows above you. So, walk in with load of sharks, full torva, god sword and you'd have a combat level of 300+ in melee. Heck, pures advantage would be neutered because the system looks at their powerful weapons and adds it to their combat level. That's the ticket. Have Jagex revamp the combat level so it takes into account skills and carried equipment, then alter rules of wilderness based on that (maybe levels 1 to 100 now).

I would not doubt that some extremely good defensive end, decathlete, triathlete, soccer, etc could do well in CrossFit Games, but it would not happen without some months of preparation. I think one lady, who was a finnish polevaulter, did extremely well after only 4 months of practice. Yet even she was destroyed with the more technical aspects, basically not able to do a single muscle-up. Problem was, before this year, if you were VERY GOOD at your specialty (boxing, football, soccer, etc.) why would you take time out of training to claim some title? However, now it's a title tied to a large amount of money on top of sponsorship. Even then, I still think it would take a few months of getting the general stuff down to be even close to competitive in the men's league. As for your definition of fitness, the founder I think was trying to be a bit more scientific about it. In other words remove the subjectivity from it. One shouldn't just give examples like Mark Armstrong can do x sit-ups, y push-ups and run z miles in 24 hours THEREFORE he's the world's fittest man or Mike Tyson defeated his opponent in 90 seconds therefore he's the world's fittest man. Instead, use measurable results with many subjects doing many things. The guy or gal that can generate the most power on average in a variety of times and variety of activities is the most physically fit, period. Now, you don't need to be the most physically fit person to be a world class boxer, biker, soccer player. In fact, it can work against you at that elite level given your example (stronger people generally are heavier which hurts distance athletes.) And of course, remember I'm trying to keep CrossFit (a workout concept) separate from the CrossFit Games (a competition to find the most physically fit). One does not have to do CrossFit to try out or even dominate the games. However, previous results seem to indicate that if you don't incorporate general physical preparedness training a few months ahead of time, you're not getting to the games regardless of your fitness level in a specific sport. That's not opinion, that's fact based on evidence. You're talking about a competition that can include running 7 miles through the hills, wall climbing, hammering a 4 foot stake into the ground, swimming, olympic lifting, carrying 600 pounds of sandbags across a stadium, etc. Basically, you have to be able to perform tasks you may never have trained for and do all of them better on average than other guys that may or may not have trained for those tasks. Personally, I like it. It's like when ultimate fighting first came out and all these Martial Arts disciplines really went against each other. It was no longer XX discipline is better than YY variant of jujitsu. It came about, through competitions of the best, what discipline on average did best in that format. With CFG, you have a format where you can put your money where your mouth is. To a results based guy like myself, that sounds pretty cool.

Believe it or not, but a gold medalist decathlete was invited to participate in last year's CrossFit games. Now, decathletes are very, very physically fit people but this guy's coach turned down the offer. Reason being, he though the decathlete would not be able to handle the intensity required to do well at such an event. It's not an insult to the decathlete's ability, just that CrossFit Games offer up really serious events that can literally kill you if you did not prepare yourself. Consider this event called "Long Helen": For time (22 min cap): Run 1,200 meters 63 kettlebell swings (55 pounds, swing from below the knees to up above your head) 36 pull-ups Run 800 meters 42 kettlebell swings 24 pull-ups Run 400 meters 21 kettlebell swings 12 pull-ups Followed immediately by having 90 seconds to lift the most weight you can overhead. The winner did the long Helen in 18 minutes, then lifted 285 pounds over his head. Now, 285 pounds is NOTHING to a professional weight lifter. However, such a specialist would never had been able to complete the long Helen. Likewise, a decathlete might be able to do Long Helen to completion, but not have the upper body strength to put up over 200 pounds. A specialist like Lance Armstrong would not even be able to do either (can he even do 72 pull ups?). To put it in Runescape terms, imagine a fight between someone with 99 atk using an uber 99 atk weapon (promethian saber), but 1 in all others going against a guy with 78 atk, str, range, magic, prayer, sum and def using level 70 weapons, armor and spells. Both have 99 hitpoints, and both have the same experience points in combat skills. One specialized in attack, the other is a well rounded. Who wins in 21 duels? On average, I'd wager the well rounded player. Now, if you limit them to the same weapon and no armor/spells/range etc, then the 99 attack will win out. Oddly enough, CrossFit hits on this idea in that any person can get reasonably good fitness by spreading out the training in different areas. You must lift weights, do body weight exercises, do endurance type events such as running, rowing, swimming, bicycle. You must do things in short times and long times. You won't be outstanding in one thing (99 atk), but you'll be better on average at all things (78 across the board). Thing is, until recently, people only cared about the specialist which would be who can ride a bike the fastest, who can run 100m the fastest, who can put up the most weight, who can shoot the most 3 point shots in Basketball, etc. These CrossFit Games offer up a method to see who's better on average at many things physical.

Thanks for unlocking. Hopefully the edit allows for better discussion. I think CrossFit is a great workout routine, and I do think the CrossFit Games is a legitimate way to determine the most physically fit. Oh yeah: DO NOT DO ARM CURLS IN THE SQUAT RACK!!!

Got two personal records today. Did a 1rm Deadlift at 425 lbs (failed the 445 lbs attempt) and a Bench press at 275 lbs (failed the 285 lbs attempt). Kind of cool as I never maxed out on a benchpress in over a year. Now for fun, I could later use 50% of those 1rm weight in a 21-15-9 rep couplet for time. Basically, that means I use 210# deadlifts and 135# bench to do 21 reps of dl, 21 reps of bench, 15 reps of dl, 15 reps of bench, 9 reps of dl, 9 reps of bench as fast as I can. Makes for a short (3 to 5 minutes), but very intense workout (feels like you sprinted a mile).

Depends on the exercise. For strength training you do not go to failure though. Your 1rm or 3rm or 5rm is based on what you make, not what you missed. Going to failure on 5x5 or other low sets just increases recovery time without increasing your strength. For body weight exercise like Tabata's, the point is to go to failure though it can be gamed with set reps also. A Tabata is 6 or 8 rounds of 20 seconds doing max number of reps followed by 10 seconds of rest. By the last couple of rounds, you're hitting failure early if you are maxing out the earlier rounds. Doing interval training is a variant of muscle failure in the cardio area. It could be running 400m as fast as you can (rest 2 minutes, do it again for 8 rounds total). This can also be done with bike 3/4 mile, row 500m, 25x burpees, 50x 45# kb swings, 50x jumping pull-ups, etc. By trying to finish as fast as you can, you actually are going to failure. But for usual strength training, don't go to failure. Louis Simmons has a 'conjugate method' where you train with weight based off your 1rm, and hit them hard. For example if you have 270# Bench, do 10 rounds of 2 reps at 75% or 205# with a round every minute (so in 10 minutes, you're done). That means bench 205# weight 2x as fast as you can, rest till the next minute and do it again. You're not hitting failure, and you got stronger so when you try a 1rm in 3 days, you'll have increased it most likely. In other words, getting stronger is a mix of finding your max strength, then doing a set portion of that very fast to train power. Works with deadlift, squats, press, pull-ups and variants on those (bands, chains, wobble weights, etc.).

**EDIT: This is not an advertisement, though it kind of reads like one, so let me preface it. There may be one or two people that read this forum that CrossFit and few more that are aware of the workout routine. Any that follow the results of the CrossFit games know that no one on this forum has any real chance of being crowned the best. (discuss CrossFit and it's method of defining fitness as how well you are in strength, speed, agility, endurance, stamina, accuracy, flexibility, and power) The main purpose of the thread is to show: 1. There's a competition called CrossFit Games starting with sectionals in March, regionals in May and the final games in July. The producers of this claims it's a legit competition for the title "World Most Physically Fit Person" (discuss if such a thing is possible, and if this competition is doing that.) 2. To try out for the sectionals, one has to perform a pre determined workout while videotaping herself or himself. That video is submitted on YouTube for verication. This is done once a week for six weeks, with six different workouts. I don't think anybody is charged for it (discuss if this makes for a legit claim that millions if not billions have the potential to tryout for this game). 3. Your score is based on how you did against the other people did in each week's workout. So, if you submit a video on week one and 590 people's video did better than you, you score 591. If on week 2 your results were beat by 248 other people you score 249 points for week two with a combined score of (591+249)= 840. If you are the best on week three, you score one point with a total of 841. At the end of six weeks, the top 600 scores will be selected to go to compete against each other in person at one of twelve different regionals (discuss if using different workouts each week and this scoring method is a viable way of finding the best overall 600 fittest people) 4. Likely at regionals (twelve events across US and Europe), 60 people compete against each other to find the top 4 people to send to the finals. These are likely multiple workouts over two days scored similarly ie how many did better than you determines your individual score for each event. (discuss if it's fair for some to have to travel far to compete at regionals). 5. At the finals, the top 50 people compete against each other in many strenious workouts. Each workout event gives a score based on how you do compared to everyone else. This is spread over three days in the heat of California summer. 6. The winner (both male and female) after all this is given the title "World's Fittest Person" and awarded $250,000 in addition to whatever else sponsors care to offere. (discuss if such a large purse will encourage non-CrossFitters to try out, and if "World's Fittest" is a legitimate title). Hopefully, this brings about better discussion and looks nothing like an advertisement now.

Personally, I thought the life boost would only be +200 life points. Pleasantly suprised they made it as high as they did. Seeing that the full set boosts life points +400, any speculation Jagex will later release lower level armor that boosts life points. A full level 70 set that boost +300, a level 60 set that boosts +200 and a level 50 set that could boost +100? Could be a cool upgrade/option for when Jagex upgrades the smithing skill. Personally, I like the idea of players with 98 in smithing, mining, firemaking and crafting being able to make full Obsidian armor which also boosts life points to +200.

Well, like they did on PvP servers, Jagex can create some +1 worlds. Skillers that use the wilderness and "real PKers" will just avoid such worlds. Plus, as items are not destroyed with return of free trade, I think you'll find PKers willing to risk high priced items since they can also win high priced items. Oh SNAP! Great idea about keeping revenants, but letting them be neutral to skulled players. Post that idea on the main site immediately. About the skull rule, what I meant was a non-skulled player cannot attack another non-skulled player in case anyone misunderstands. Now, it still allows for Dharok abusers, then again it's easy to ignore such cheesy players. Also, it probably can help to where you only lose your skull if you're out of the Wilderness for over 20 minutes (don't want to lose your skull waiting for a target now do you?). Sounds cool, and can give new reason to artifacts. Kill a guy wearing a Tier 1 artifact and get an expensive artifact.

Seeing that we now have Damage Absorption in armor, and that even the highest level armor only absorbs around ??% (too lazy to look up), is it reasonable to say that Jagex needs to remove or adapt the PvP prayer? Currently, Protect Prayer is like 50% absorption for damage above 0 hits. Would there be such an outcry if it counted only as 50% for damage above 200 hits? I'm not a PKer, but I think protection prayers are overpowered all around. You can't remove the PvM aspect from the game as a lot of current content was based around the ability to pray. However, there's little reason to not adapt PvP protection prayers especially seeing we're getting back PvP Wilderness. It's a level 43 skill that overpowers level 80 armor, so something is off.

It's easy to find that mentality in RS. Try putting on protection prayers and read all the pkers complain about it. Same can be said about complaints on teleporting, potions, safing, etc. It's basically saying don't do stuff that makes it harder for me to kill you and easier for you to kill me. Oh yeah, what's the opinion on Castle War flag holders? Players that just deliver minimum amount of kills in Pest Control? Buying skills? It's people who think others should play the game how they play, even though there's nothing in the games code that enforces that opinion. Now, complaining about the game allowing such tactics is not being a scrub. Unlike Street Fighter, Runescape will change its rules based on player feedback. Perhaps if you have lots of players following "honor rules", then that's a hint that such a rule should be mandatory via a change in the game's program. However, until that change comes about, if you're not using every advantage offered within the rules then you're not really playing to win. I might teleport while skulled during a fight, but I still feel such action should be prohibited or have some type of retribution attached.

So maybe this means they're looking at things like claws and extremes and K-swords? Yes, MMG posted that last month in the article talking about the first referendum. I'll be honest, a lot of this can be solved (with a lot of pain) by just removing +1 prayer and making untradeables disappear on death (current PvP rule on many servers, no?). If you're skulled then you don't get to save any items on death through prayer or untradeable items. I personally think most won't care about over powered items when it turns out the guy using it is honestly risking it when he dies. Course, that means making untradeable items with useful combat boosts difficult or costly to recover. Hopefully though, they make some rule to help deter PJ. Not being able to see the death pile AT ALL if you didn't kill the guy helps. I don't know if this is the case now, but if Player A gets down to 10 lp when killing Player B, only Player A can see the death pile of Player B (invisible even to player B). If Player A gets PJ'd at his 10 lp, as Player B did the most damage (despite being killed), only Player B will get to see Player A's death pile. If that's the case, then PJers to get any drop need to let their potential victims heal up enough so a majority of the damage is done by the PJer. Was it already that way?

Knowing Jagex, that's probably how people will get Statius and Vesta and such stuff when the update takes effect. That would actually be something I think I could agree with. Me too. It's a good way to solve the loot-related issues caused by people who PK in mostly untradeables. The only problem with it that I can see would be how to value the untradables lost. Since otherwise, you'd get people killing each other both wearing full achievement diary armor and making millions. Glad to know that bringing back PvP Wilderness is not a simple as "Restart '06 Rules". 1. There's disagreement on the 1-item rule as you now have 1-items that allow 1 hit chances with minimum risk. Some solutions can be creating a "risked on death" rule like now, or even removing item protect altogether. Given the outcry when item protect was removed on PvP servers, I doubt that would happen. Another solution is creating 0/+3 and +1/+4 servers while removing item protect prayer for everybody. 2. These powerful untradeable equipment are more noticeable than in 2006. Some agree there needs to be a fair in game value added to them, and some method to let their killers get compensated with that value. What Jagex can do is evaluate all the common untradeable equipment, and alter items that offer decent combat advantage. Basically, those items have a cost replacement added to them while your killer would get 3/5 that value in a coin drop. Or just let players retrieve their untradeable items with no penalty like before. I still think the skulling rule can be improved. The auto-skull of current PvP seemed like an improvement, as there was no question what you are risking on those servers. Is there be anything wrong with requiring players to be skulled ahead of time to allow being able to attack non-skulled people in the wild? Basically, you can get skulled if you enter the abyss, talk to a chaos wizard at Edgeville who'll skull you, or attack a skulled player that didn't attack you. I also think left-click attack of players should be a selectable option in addition to friends and clan mates. I'm cool with the idea of risking death in the wild, but not with rules that encourage attempts to kill others while risking little on your own. Requiring legitimate risk to rate reward, on top of making it obvious if a player is there to kill other players (skull rule) improves the game I think.

Well, there'll likely be 1 million+ yes votes by the 14th. I hope Jagex thinks about ways to improve PvP in the wild. Yes, PvP is coming back, but what changes should be made taken into account based on what happened on PvP servers and the game during the last three years? Current rules that didn't exist back then affect protect prayers, auto skull, level limits, and teleportation penalties. Plus some of the "old rules" of the wilderness weren't actually rules at all. It was limitation based on the program. At one time, you could not attack a player engaged in combat with an NPC, and could not attack that NPC. At one time, you didn't count as being in combat if you weren't actively attacking another player even if he was attacking you. At one time, the system only tracked the last 20 players that attacked you to allow non-skulled retaliation. So, since three years has passed, and we've had updates to the game that improved since that time, what are some reasonable changes to PvP wilderness? I've been posting my opinions but haven't seen too much else from anyone aside from one guy claiming the old wild was perfect and didn't need to be changed at all. Would you like to have a rule that your killer must be risking at least 76k gp to even see your items drop? Would like a rule where untradeables disappear if you die wearing them in the wilderness? Would you like better restrictions on teleport? Would you like removal of item protect prayer and have it replaced with +1/+4 for all players? Would you like item saved on death based on GE values? Would you like some sort of rule where you must be skulled before you can attack an unskulled player?

Never mind, but I think players are smart and can adapt to scams. In addition, Jagex will change the game to adapt to scams that are difficult to avoid.

Yes

nty, the game is already idiot-proof enough :thumbdown: Obviously, you are not an idiot, so would not need to use such devices. As such, what's the problem with including something you can choose to opt out of? It's not like it's for your opponents, as a non-idiot like you would not duel with idiots that would need such devices either. Because seeing things like these makes me feel like I'm playing club penguin. It's already bad enough having the ditch, trade screen, warning signs everywhere, etc. And you can't 'opt out' for any of these. No offense, but making the game easier or require less effort is not the same as making it idiot proof. Removing unids with grimy herbs made it easier to trade herbs. Giving color names to phats made it easier to confirm the trade. Adding the exclamation mark and price amounts made it easier for confirmation of trades. Adding prayer, lps, run, etc on the main screen made it easier to keep track of status. The ditch made it easier to operate near the wild without worrying about entering it. Etc, etc. Now if Jagex really wanted to idiot proof the game, they'd remove all player to player trades all together in addition to letting people keep all their items on death. If they wanted a hard core game, they'd put pk everywhere with no level restrictions and no item saves. Oh and people would be able to use the thieving skill on you.

nty, the game is already idiot-proof enough :thumbdown: Obviously, you are not an idiot, so would not need to use such devices. As such, what's the problem with including something you can choose to opt out of? It's not like it's for your opponents, as a non-idiot like you would not duel with idiots that would need such devices either.