TheAncient

Expecting ely/div to drop significantly in the long run due to new corp teleport (games necklace)

GF CORP/DIV/ELY EASY SOLOING

That's not really a fair calculation, since realistically chaotics uncharge at a rate of <100K/hr, and a lot of people use tokens to charge chaotics OT: Can we get like a running list of expected FT prices of: -- all p hats -- ely/div -- nex gear

Your range def is probably too low, you should have near max range soak and max range def. by the time you get to the second half you should have eaten so that you have, at the minimum, about 500-600 HP left; even if he hits you once (250~ max with soak) you still have 250-350 HP left which is fine. Even if supreme does hit you 3 times, you should be fine if you drink a super restore a little bit before supreme dies (not afterward, cause thats too late). The time it takes to lure rex will be enough for your ovl boost to kick in.

You should brew only in the time between after you finish rex and in the first half of supreme. Do not brew after supreme has 1/2 hp; if you find yourself having to do this you should have brewed more during the first half of the kill. If you bring half super rests half regular ppots your mage level should never be an issue.

Maul is good if you can ss flash CLS+ely/div is better than rapier+defender supposedly. i dont have one to test with I have had a CLS for quite a long time and have consistently used rapier more Damage soak barely does anything if you paid attention to my previous analysis; it is barely comparable to ely/div

Your argument, which I have already addressed, is really only relevant for Bandos - and it isn't even that relevant if you're good at timing brews to your overload boost. And no, I did not miss the factors that make divine superior. If you read carefully I mention a lot of reasons why divine would be better than elysian. Don't exaggerate these abilities; in the big scale of things the math shows that in at least 2 (DKs, Nex) of the 3 most important shield scenarios, elysian is a strong competitor to divine.

The conclusion is more or less the same as mine (on the order of ~2 brew difference assuming 35 brews)

Theyre pretty common drops. In a few weeks they'll be basically worthless.

Regardless, it's not as if divine completely reduces brew's negative attack bonus. At the end of the day, you will still have to brew regardless of whether you use ely or div; div will just make you brew less often. We're talking about, on average, a difference of 15/2=7 seconds (so about 2 hits) where your stats will be ~115 versus ~125, on maybe like 1/3 to 1/2 of your kills depending on how good you are at timing, and that div will make you brew on average one time less than ely. So if you account for good overload-boost timing, the difference you're talking about is really quite small. And no - if you're assuming a competent monster hunter, I think good 15-second overload timing is not hard. Just run a clock on the side of your RS window and have a good memory.

Like I said, against a boss which deals moderate DPS (such as bandos or supreme) this is not that big of an issue. you should only be eating when your ovl 15-second boost is right about to hit, thereby completely negating the negative effects of the brew. Only when you need to brew more than two times per 15-second boost (such as at nex) does the brew consideration really come into play. Assuming you're good at potting, this is true. Div makes you more susceptible to panic potting is all. Under ideal circumstances this panic pot argument is less relevant

Graar is still moderately good money since youre not goign for hilts; youre going for armor pieces. armor pieces are much more common (~1/150 for both). DKS is actually pretty bad profit nowadays - at least nothign compared to what they used to be. rings, axes, and bones have all gone down significantly To your edit: I think Pernix + Ely is a better comparison to divine than pernix against divine. im pretty confident pernix top will not go for 600M+, and ely will probably be 350-400M; div will be around 800-1B

Meh if youre considering the melee accuracy tradeoff, you can only fairly compare pernix vs karil and not pernix vs arma. in that case you trade off 8 attack bonus for +10 magic defense bonus, +8 ranged attack, +1 pray, which is easily worth it. questionable for bandos, but i'd still strongly say ely+pernix >> div for bandos Idk who does Zil/Kril seriously nowadays; theyre pretty irrelevant as far as profitable bosshunting goes (~1/600 droprate for something thats like... 30M)

You obviously wouldnt use torva, but you use pernix top for all major bosses where Div>>Ely (Nex, Bandos)

For bandos, if youre good at controlling your HP level well you can get a lot of healing off SS minions Also, if youre good you can time your brews to 1-2 secs before your overloads restore. bandos damage rate is moderate (less than nex) so if youre good you definitely can do this. This makes the "brewing more with ely" argument less relevant. Not trying to be defensive here, but as of yet I don't see whats wrong with my math. Is there a QFC or something to that other post? I also don't always use super prays because makign them is time-consuming, also I sometimes like to mix in super rests in my yak; also, the difference is not that significant because you usually won't have purely super pray ( a large majroity will still be super rests ). even with pure super prays that's only like a 1.3x multiplier I mentioned those downsides and I agree with them. Div is clearly better than Ely, I just don't think its enough to warrant a twofold price difference This really depends on how much HP youre willing to safe to; also, youre assuming you always eat right before you go under your "safe limit" which isn't always optimal (sometimes better to eat a high HP at beginning of kill if youre timed right before an OVL boost) Also have to account for the fact that with div youll have to praypot more (potentially even panic pot) b/c of chance you might get smited out ___ At any rate, let me re-emphasize the main point of my argument: I agree completely that Div is uncontroversially better than Ely, I just don't think this difference is worth giving up a lvl80 armor piece for. In other words, when considering buying pro gear, you should first go for a ely and/or lvl80 armor before div.

I can totally understand that, but not everyone can buy a 800M+ shield and still have money to spare. 350-400M is a much more reasonable price for most people. Div/ely are not really *THAT* good (curses/ovls are much more powerful and cheaper). Ely only saves ~6 brews. At the end of the day, they are luxury items. What do you think the calculation should be, then?

It is well established that Divine is superior to Elysian in both PVM and PVP settings. However, exactly how much better Divine is has been a murky subject. Seeing how Elysian's street value is less than half of Divine's, one should seriously call into question choosing Divine over Elysian. For pvp, Divine is much stronger than Elysian. KO's are the biggest issue in PVP, and Divine does a much better job by consistently preventing damage (opposed to Elysian's 70% activation percentage). For pvm, the two shields are comparable. Of course, Divine is better, but the difference is actually small. Since this is a pvm situation and not pvp situation, KO potential is a much smaller issue and we can instead look at average protection over time. Elysian prevents an average of 17.5% damage at no cost, while Divine prevents an average of 30% damage at the cost of 15% of the damage reducing your pray. Therefore, Divine prevents an additional 12.5% at the cost of 15% damage being diverted to pray. Assuming maxed stats, a prayer potion restores 31*4 = 124 Prayer Potions. With a Divine, a prayer pot can account for 1240*12.5/15 = 1030 Damage. This is obviously better healing per slot than a brew, which only restores 169*4 = 676 Damage. Moreover, brews reduce your stats which lower your DPS. Clearly, Divine is a better choice for overall damage protection. Assuming no SS (all your healing comes from brews), you can only apply this Brew->PPot conversion for 12.5% (30%-17.5%) of your brews. Assuming 35 brews per trip (valid for Bandos and Nex), 12.5% of your brews is 4.375 brews. Each brew that you "convert" from Ely to Div is 1030-676 = 354 damage saved. 4.375*354 = 1548.75 extra damage prevented by using a Divine per inventory; this is only a difference of 2.3 effective brews per trip. This is actually pretty insignificant compared to the 400M+ difference in street price of the two shields. Moreover, in situations where a lot of your healing comes from SS (DKs tribrid) and you need to bring a much smaller number of brews, the effectiveness of divine is reduced to only 0.5-1.5 extra brews worth of healing per inventory. Elysian is a strong substitute for Divine; it is hardly a strictly inferior shield for PVM. It clearly has its weaknesses (brews reduce stats, ppots do not; higher KO region). However, so does divine (easier to get smited out, 400M difference in cost). The cost is an even more important issue now that the 400M you save by buying an Elysian can be spent on pernix or torva.

Um... very little chance. No offense, but I don't see this topic having much discussion value

I'd use rigour I did a 6-kill trip using nothing but uni for the boss, summoning potions, and ex range / steel titan for kc

I'm thinking it's still better to do larger teams that can stay for 5+ kills. banking/regrouping takes a lot of time.

Nex seems to have some kind of stat restoration over time. Last night we tried using SWH on her most dangerous forms and it barely worked.

nex is in multi so KS sucks

Still, any chaotic C bow setup should work better, unless there's something about this bow I don't know about. Yes, better for damage output but considering chaotic risk and cost it's a fair enough tradeoff that the new bow will be situationally better

ain't even mad

600K an hour is not nothing, lol.