TheAncient

inb4 logdot invokes FT chat o wait 2 late Like I said, as long as you realize fully that what ur doing is suboptimal, whatever, I'll still laugh at you but I won't really care. Just don't encourage others to do the same. It sounds like you aren't, so fine

grats you effigy prod :shades:

LOL'D As a rule of thumb, read whatever Golv has to say. Then laugh at it OT: Rapier. CLS is marginally more useful (arguable) in a bunch of rare cases but rapier is by far the better overall choice

Pre-1.06 patch, the AK-74u was the most overpowered weapon in the game. I would shoot a guy from 2-3 feet away with a shotgun, and by the time I rechambered the bullet, he had enough time to turn around and gun me down with the 74u. Outside of that, I agree. The 1.06 patch 'nerfed' the 74u with Grip and the hipfire ability of the 74u. Really off topic here, but I always did much better with normal AK and famas than 74u grip/rapidfire, idk why >> i'm like 1.5 on 74u and 1.8 on ak/famas

So is this a borderline confirmation that we are still getting a smithing update and it wasn't all those dungeoneering armors? Nice catch. Dang it if only I had an extra 100M to train smithing <_<

Good to see jagex continually works on their engine. Also good to see Jagex releasing actual specifics about their development process. Though I'm not really sure I can agree with the fact that they script their forums in their own format, i'd rather have them just use some kind of normal phpbb format. Yeah things like " A. One that is hard to do is to enable Summoning creatures to take untradeable items, because technically you are trading with them when you give them items. " " really bug me. why would they code it this way... it seems so unnecessary/hardcoded I wish they could give some examples for how things are coded, but I highly doubt Jagex would do something like that.

No, theatre mode is the ability to record any game that you have played. Using this mode you can see the match through any player's perspective, in first person or third person. Considering the size of maps, length of matches, and amount of detail, both recording games and exporting them in a time- and size-efficient manner to whoever wants to download them is pretty difficult. They download fairly quickly, which has always really impressed me. I won't fault you for being wrong here, but just to clarify - I mean jagex systematically has issues with how they code. They've fixed a lot of small things, but that's pretty much a result of the problem I outlined (they sometimes have bad coding, so it takes longer for them to code than for other developers) -- Golvellius, I like your graph. A step in the right direction. Your next step is to learn some math! Maybe you should start with pre-algebra.

It's clearly something that's meant for users to do and to spend time on. Not officially an in-game update but it's still something Jagex planned on having us be active with.

We're comparing a development time of 1.5 years, not of RS's whole lifetime to 1.5 years for bops. TO make a fair comparison over 10 years we'd have to think of every single cod game. Other than dungeoneering, which I agree is a large update, the other RS updates are tiny in comparison. Curses? Aside from the quest that would take like an afternoon to code (excluding debug time and graphics). GWD? Maybe 2 days to get a basic model of nex going. Bops maps are orders of magnitude more complex and detailed than RS. As far as soundboard goes, RS just uses random in-house people and effects, and they have a lot of the same (and boring) sound effects. There aren't that many new sound effects that have been recently introduced. Treyarch actually hired external people and employ a lot of different sources for their sounds. Theatre mode would require a LOT of debugging and thought to design properly. Bops weapons are actually VERY well balanced. Pretty much NOTHING is overpowered. A lot of thought and time went into designing them.

Now that you've backed away from your ridiculous argument, let's take a look at the bigger picture. First, it's relevant commentary that shows how lame and terrible Jagex can be. If I see a half-baked update like this, I have good reason to voice my opinion why I think Jagex does a bad job coding. This update itself is bad but not terrible. It's not as if I'll just say "oh this is a terrible update" and not give any precedent for why I think so. This "update" is just one among many such lazy updates that shows a trend of ineptitude and disregard. I already showed you some numbers and statistics. What do you want me to do, graph them in 10D space, integrate all the functions and provide you some formula for the overall "laziness" of jagex? Do you want me to define a laziness coefficient and provide it to each update, then sum all of those laziness values together? I have a problem with the way Jagex updates the game because I am avid fan of RS. As much as I love the game, I hate the developers.

Another interesting point to bring up is the likelihood that Jagex's debugging issues are probably a result of their terrible coding. What do I mean by terrible coding? They hardcode so many things in this game it's ridiculous (for example, there is no actual variable of "magic damage" that modifies your magic damage. In fact, each magic-boosting item individually boosts damage, so the final damage boost is quite different than the nominal one). Had they had the foresight and coding intuition to set aside a new "magic-boost" variable, such an issue wouldn't exist - moreover, it'd be much faster to code). Another example is the terribly complicated and convoluted formula for melee max hit. Hardcoding is a sign of coding immaturity and ineptitude. Based on how poorly designed and coded certain things are, you can reasonbly extrapolate that a lot of Jagex's development time is unnecessary debugging (which is VERY time consuming) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_coding

Treyarch and IW are separate developers. MW2 was made by IW, Treyarch made Cod. The last Cod game treyarch made was WAW and Bops engine i'm pretty sure is significantly different. Let's not forget that Jagex probably also has basic templates that they use to prime new developments, especially quests. To be fair, there is a significant amount of completely new and complicated features that treyarch added to Bops. You ignored and failed to address any of my other points. If you really care, only about 15% (7+8%) of treyarch's employees count as game developers, which puts the total number of developers somewhere around 30-35. (http://www.linkedin.com/companies/treyarch) We know that RS has at least 50 developers on it. By that logic you have to ignore time for making graphics for RS, which I believe was one of the main arguments supporting Jagex's slow development time. And no, you still have issues with clipping & compatibility that you have to address in terms as a coder. And why you wouldn't include graphics and only coding as part of development makes no sense. Bro, you like my cool story? I'm ready for whatever new faulty logic you're ready to provide as a veil for your stubbornness.

disagree, i'd say plate>hex>neck for people without a perm team for keying, plate>hex and i'd never ever consider a neck bind

I'm not only taking to you, lol - my post was partly directed to people supporting armor making. No need to be defensive. And lol @ you collecting textiles and branches. I really have nothing to say. I can't tell if you're making stormbringers or magic armor because both are equally as useless. And what are you doing with branches? Cooking? Fletching bows?

Black ops took around a year and a half to make, and Treyarch is smaller than jagex (in fact, Treyarch has about HALF of Jagex's employees). Compare: Graphics Sounds Gameplay Engine complexity Bugginess/Quality Control Physics Game design/balance Compatibility with multiple consoles In the past 1.5 years, the major new updates to RS (not tweaks) include: -- Dungeoneering (large) ----- Which is really only like 5 floor layouts ----- Floor logic ----- Boss design ----- Reward design ----- Very few new monsters -- Curses (small) -- Kuradal (small) -- Thieve's guild (moderate) -- Herblore Habitat (moderate) -- Conquest (moderate) -- Effigies (small amount) -- GWD (moderate) -- Hati (small) -- Elite Diaries (small) -- Couple quests (large) In comparison, COD: -- 10+ Map design for multiplayer (moderate) -- ~10 different normal multiplayer game modes (moderate) -- ~5-10 Prestige and wager modes (moderate) -- ~20 levels for singleplayer (large) -- Extremely detailed graphics for everything listed here (large) -- Weapon balance/design for 40+ weapons (moderate) -- Attachment balance/design for ~20 attachments (small) -- Equipment balance/design for 10+ pieces (small) -- Killstreak balance/design (small) -- 4 zombie modes (moderate) -- AI practice mode (small) -- Storyline design (large) -- ~10 hours of gameplay for singleplayer (this is probably on the same order of magnitude of all of the quests in the last 18 months) -- AI for zombie bots, AI for multiplayer bots, killstreak AIs (large) -- Complete soundboard (RS's is tiny compared to COD) -- Theatre mode and recording (large) -- In-game statistics (these are very thorough) -- Achievements and Contracts (probably more of these than elite diaries/tasks) -- Complete leveling system (small) -- Ability to make a totally custom avatar (small) -- Significant compatability issues and debugging (large) Graphic quality in a single normal gameplay shot is arguably better and more detailed than anything Jagex has ever produced out of its graphics AND marketing departments. You also have to account for the fact that some of the time that I'm including as Treyarch's development time included things like licensing, marketing (jagex's is a joke compared to black ops marketing), distribution. /// So, tell me I don't have a realistic grasp of how slow jagex is with development.

That is correct, but because an opinion is more realistic does mean it's closeR to the truth.

That is correct, but just because an opinion is more realistic doesn't mean it close to the truth. What? I don't even.

Let's be honest here - since none of you code for Jagex, no one is a final authoritative source for how long updates actually take. However, just because you aren't an absolute authority doesn't mean your other experiences (coding, basic knowledge of computer science, etc, which grimy has experience with) can't give you a more realistic opinion than people who have had much less experience. This "update", to me, is really half-baked. It's a continuation of their pitiful attempt at forced "emergent" gameplay.

But Izenheim, that's not a fair comparison because you're comparing people who are totally uncoordinated (randoms in 148) to people who are coordinated. Put a group of 148ers that know each other well and have a general idea what to do, and 40 minutes really is not a fantastic time. When comparing anything, you always must consider the tradeoff and not just the goods alone or the bads alone. Armor is helpful - I agree - but not for the amount of time it takes. When everything is running smoothly, there really should be no time for you to make armor. And even if you do have time, it'd be much better spent farming lycs or making ragers. Moreover, making armor does not increase your kill time for anything. There is no guarentee that the time you invest in making armor will pay for itself. Of course, a lot of people slow down / stop moving if they have no food, but ideally food is not an issue. In a coordinated team where people don't randomly go off soloing hard GD's, it isn't too hard to survive. With a plate bind you can do an entire floor (excluding boss) probably with 10 or so salves and SS flash. It's not about rushing, either. There are people who RUSH - and I mean like 20 minute floors - and yeah that's both fun and stressful. 30 minutes is a very reasonable pace for a floor; the only person doing much "rushing" is the keyer. If you call teleporting to GD's stressful, then you should probably play a lower APM game like chess. Of course, if you like making armor just for the heck of it, fine. You're slowing down the team but if the team is fine with it, more power to you. But at least be smart about making it. Make it when there are no outsanding GD's, or if you're one-wayed at a skill door. Don't just blindly make armor while the rest of your team needs you.

Welcome to TIF, but this thread will get locked, sorry lol.

Also depends on what else is in the room. If there's a book, for example, I'd do slinger first.

i bind a primal pickaxe. it lets me mine ore faster and more effectively. i can get multiple ore per rock. sometimes i get 2 ore, that's very good. it allows me to make armor. so that i can dungeon sweep. and tank zombie axe throwers. i bound it over a hood, because hoods are junk for efficiency clows.

Seems that the confidence is recovering then. When all phats where crashing (2 days ago), people were guessing purple at 300-250 m and ely at 200-300m. I think you could've scored some deals these days, liquidating eggs and whatnot. (unless eggs suddenly gain trust too, but I don't see that happening) That's the huge problem with junk trading... I definitely would have taken advantage of cheap elys had I had the junk to do so.

I expect ely to stablize at 425-450M by the end of FT day 1. Current offers are around 375-390M on day of FT.

Random question to anyone who has a Nex piece: If you wield your armor, eat normal food, then take off your armor, does your LP stay above 990 and your max LP go to 990 (like a normal person drinking a brew - 1190/990) or does it just go to 990/990 If the latter, what if you drink a brew (not normal food) and then take off your armor?