pulli23

Give me 30 minutes and I'll make a bot with human-like mouse movement and at least 1000000 variations of a drop ... Bots certainly cannot be stopped, but making their "life" harder is fun indeed :twisted: counter started!

lol no bot would use colour or something.. They use the internal data of the applet (the server tells your applet simply: hey at x,y should be a monster, or better: "at x,y is item I"). Then your applet thinks by itself: "alright item I should be drawn there, now that means this and that model has to be loaded and drawn". Now the bots have learned how to read that data (not that difficult anyone with professional java & asm experience should be able to make it) and understand it (just requires a human interface to link the indices to real items). Towards runescape nothing else (in the most basic format) than: "hey I clicked at position x,y". - A bot would just sent this data (no need for a mouse or anything).

Everybody would earn the same, flipping doesnt make money dissapear from the game, it just redistributes the wealth somewhat. And with flipping, the only reason we can buy items cheap or sell them high is because someone is WILLING to buy for higher or sell for lower, if someone puts in an offer for max and we sell it for max, we arent harming them, they simply chose to buy it for max because they needed the item faster. If someone puts in an offer for min, then they need to sell it faster obviously, and im merely taking the items from them. No one gets harmed in flipping, unless they choose to get harmed. (In which they arent realy being harmed) Uhm nope, it's not that I'm willing to sell for lower: I have to Simply since for prayer if I don't sell immediatelly the goods I get, and buy bones for it, then the amount of coins I need to earn become faster higher than the amount of coins I DO earn.

So if you aren't the brightest person you don't deserve much? The ideas here are offending me more and more.. And less and less I feel like I want to be drawn on one line together with people like that! - Where is social aspect of playing a game together, and actually helping the persons around you? Merchanting is just wrong and no matter how you put it, without merchants everybody would earn more. But I guess since most people here are from the US it's normal to see those enormous focus on the asocial attitude about only earning money and not giving anything about the people behind.

And this comes from a jagex' employee? Wow.. Really a 32 bit OS can handle 4GB(!) RAM 2^32 = 4GB

Hey I got my first elite clue scroll Yet I seem to be unable to find the location (it's a location scroll) The scroll says the target can be found at the wilderness volcano: this means the most north east volcano right?

I believe the aggressive area is (almost) the same as the wander area of the monsters..

prayer gear isn't for protection prayers, it's for ultimate strength..

Hi, I have a desert strykewyrm task and am wondering: what should I wield? Just standard slayer outfit (whip, excalibur, slayer helmet, soul wars cape, glory, proselyte top, veracs bottom, dragon boots).. Or something different (to handle the heat?) I'm allround 90 combat stats btw.

doesn't hcange the point: then consider someone with 80 in everything...

What I am saying is that the combat requirements for these diaries are the most difficult to get.. And that's with all updates/quests/new skills All updates which introduce new items since the summoning have been geared at those who have HIGH COMBAT. - Making it more and more profitable. The only high level content for skillers I can remember are rocktails (which are pretty low level required). Now these diaries I say are another example at content geared to those with HIGH COMBAT (and high skills aren't exactly needed). I highly disagree. 91 fishing and runecrafting is Jagex laughing at EVERYONE, not one or the other. 95 prayer, 92 herblore, and 93 summoning are a walk in the park compared to 91 fishing alone. I'm a combat-orientated player, for the record. I hate slow AFK skills (fishing). uhm explain how these are a walk in the park (time wise?) - DO you have a calculation which shows that you can get those 3 skills faster than 200 hours from level 1?

What I am saying is that the combat requirements for these diaries are the most difficult to get.. And that's with all updates/quests/new skills All updates which introduce new items since the summoning have been geared at those who have HIGH COMBAT. - Making it more and more profitable. The only high level content for skillers I can remember are rocktails (which are pretty low level required). Now these diaries I say are another example at content geared to those with HIGH COMBAT (and high skills aren't exactly needed). High skills aren't needed? Have you even looked at the elite diary requirements? uhm yes, and please check my long calculation: as I showed the prayer requirement is the most difficult requirement to gather! (Mostly since all skills can be boosted at least 5 levels, thus highest is effectivelly 91 fishing). Even when earning in excess of 4M an hour it takes ~60 hours for 95 prayer to gather.

What I am saying is that the combat requirements for these diaries are the most difficult to get.. And that's with all updates/quests/new skills All updates which introduce new items since the summoning have been geared at those who have HIGH COMBAT. - Making it more and more profitable. The only high level content for skillers I can remember are rocktails (which are pretty low level required). Now these diaries I say are another example at content geared to those with HIGH COMBAT (and high skills aren't exactly needed).

It's irrelevant. Producing gp is what you are talking about, and neither method is good for that. Also you can look at merchanting as a pyramid scheme- you gradually make yourself toward the top, losing money as you start out and gaining money once you are near the top, and there will always be players starting out from the bottom. This way, merchanting is just an effective way of distributing wealth to those who can use it better. And yes, it is a moneymaker, and yes, it's the most efficient moneymaker in the game. You ignoring it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just as the fact that you don't have 85 dungeoneering doesn't mean frost dragons don't exist. uhm WHAT, you consider a pyramid scheme of distributing wealth moral acceptable? - Even worse: a good method one should participate in? You know they are a big financial crime in reality - for good reasons! Sorry but if you consider that something one should do there's not much we can talk about, of course it "works" for the top players: however you make many, many others suffer! (wow if the youth considers this acceptable I fear for the future of earth)

They do produce WEALTH though! merchanting doesn't produce anything.

Actually these & manipulating bots are the big issue in the botting communities now (I'm "seeing" people with around 200 bots, all with ~2M coins made by other methods now trying to use the ge to merchant).. These bots are only 10 days "old" when they are effectivelly earning money for the bot-owner. Thus jagex currently has a 10-day gap in between they should catch a bot! @bows: They came first for the Jews, And I didn't speak up because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn't speak up because I was not a Trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up.

as said: for each gp YOU earn, someone else has to LOOSE 1... HENCE the average runescape person will make 0 coins with merchanting - so it should never be considered when talking about the generic runescape population!

Since when is merchanting a necessity? - really merchanting is just stealing money from others: for each gp YOU win someone else has to loose 1! I refuse to merchant (or even buy at low/sell at high, I'm sticking to the mid). Such an attitude that merchanting is a legitimate method of making money is sickening me! But really: tell me what better method than runecrafting there is too make money as a skiller? - and 91 runecrafting I had since 2007 already (spent my money on other things than skills, such as gathering the gold cw set) and even then with abbys-runecrafting without summoning I earned around 1M an hour.. Really skilling doesn't make any more money these days compared to other methods!

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Snowy_knight_%28item%29? wow 1 item to help someone else.. Now how feasable is this item to use en masse?

Yeah, you're right, the update gives an unfair advantage to people who already trained their skills to the required levels! :roll: Wellthese things would be a good argument in a non-changing stable environment Runescape changes faster than most (note, not the top 10% of the players, but the mass below) can adept: For people who started 5 years ago there were say "2 similar time routes" - 1 who went to try to gather money with skilling (RC, gold mining, fishing) and with that money tried to buy the combat skills. The other same speed method was by first levelling combat stats and then having the money to power yourself through fishing, cooking etc levels. Now the problem raises: those who trained prayer 4 years ago, and now only have left the non-combat skills have it much, much easier than those who first trained their non combat skills. Actually it goes so far that the price rise of bones is faster than the money some people can earn by skilling, and I know quite a few people who have left for the simple reason that the goal they had was getting further and further away with time even though they were playing! This is the problem: the last 3 years (effectivelly since the GWD dungeons) all new content catered towards high level combat people. Sure for skilling there are now faster method: but again those come at the cater mostly for those who can already earn millions.. The money gained from skilling really hardly changed AT ALL. (Yet there has been a mass-inflation) A game should be balanced, so that the routes one can walk are different: yet take similar time. Runescape is becoming more and more of a "all do the same thing with the same set up, otherwise you're left out".

I'm sorry, but I take offense at that. Most free play friends I know are great friends to talk to, and aren't actually showoffs in any way (aside from what they wear, but that doesn't really count). There's this maxed free player that comes into this dungeoneering clan chat that I go to (they are GOOD, btw), but does she ever mention anything about it? NO. In fact, this other day, while I was slaying greaters on my p2p account, some 105 comes and was like "gtfo black mask noob, go to the other side". I don't recall hearing anything like that in free play, at least not when I was cockroach killing. Yes I know that since it's free, there will be more players and a greater chance of immaturity, but please, don't assume that just because it's free it will be full of immature [wagon]es. The free community is better than you think. i definitely agree that there are mature people in f2p and i also definitely agree there are immature people in p2p as well. but if you play f2p FoG you'll get a lot of comments like that (prayer n00b, pure gtfo pl0x, etc). and the same goes for p2p castle wars. I notice the link between combat, especially PvP, and immaturity. Maybe this is just the result of how combat is designed in Runescape? Barring lunar magic, which only sees play in a limited number of situations, there's no real content that actively involves teamwork in combat. A team in WoW is much more effective together than if the individuals rush in separately, Leeroy Jenkins style. A Runescape team can really only function as individuals fighting the same targets, and there's very little you can do to aid your allies. Maybe this is just something that needs tending to by Jagex? Dungeoneering, Barbarian Assault, and Castle Wars, for example, all operate on a pretty teamwork-heavy paradigm where an organized group is much more effective than the sum of its parts. You clearly don't have too much esperience with good combat-based multiplayer games. Barbarian assault is still "single player" (each player just has his task) - you can't help each other really much with what they do. Castle wars is exactly as the OP suggested: limited to piling. Dungeoneering is the only place where teamwork is really good!

uhm which situation was not relevance? I made the statement: Those who went for combat stats at most have the task disproportional easier than those who went for even stats Then I was given a counter argument that I wasn't right and thus demanded for some "proof". So what I did was an example calculation for a person with even stats at lv 85.. VS someone who went for combat (and thus had the prayer & herblore requirements).. Also it shows that the prayer requirements are by far the most difficult requirements to get. 138 hours when earning 1M/hour.. Or 55 hours when earning 4M (which is impossible unless you have the prayer requirement already).. This update again makes the gab bigger between those who levelled prayer & herblore already, and those who still are lowish prayer/herblore!

Actually, the biggest required skills are 96 fishing and 91 runecrafting in terms of how difficult they are to achieve, and those cater largely to skillers. While no combat based character will have 91 runecrafting(once the best moneymaker, remember) and 96 fishing, the skillers really shouldn't consider themselves elite without 92 herblore and 95 prayer- the fact that those cost money is no reason for skillers to not train them, being unable to make alot of money without combat, afterall, is not a sign of being elite(particularly nowadays, other people actually used to bury bones for their prayer xp and had to go to the market and communicate with people in order to buy or sell anything). The argument of not being elite without 95 pray & herblore is moot: same could be said about fishing (most relaxing 99 for a long time) and 86 rc. Let's do the math (I define a skiller as someone who levels equally, so having 95 prayer would also mean 95 stats in everything else) ok lets consider a skiller someone who has equal stats, and lets say he has lv 85 in all stats (with 91 rc for simplicity).. And for simplicity: his fishing level is 91 (which is pretty generous, not many skillers train fishing). Also lets say he did level for the ardougne diary: he has 92 summoning. A monster hunter is someone who's purelly combat stats (& herblore).. maxed combat, 95 prayer & summoning and 88 herblore (for super anti). The rest is around 30-40 (neglectable xp) Considered both about equally difficult right? With these stats the skiller could make 1M an hour (rcing), combat stats would be too low to get in any team or solo (you would get crashed) The combat based person can make 4M an hour (frost dragons, TDs & dk) Well the skiller would need: 22k dragon bones (around 5600 each) = 123M - about 15 hours burying them, thus a total of 138 hours for 85-95 prayer now for herblore, similar: at 40 gp/xp (which herblore is these days or so I heard), it's for 85-87 around 1M xp: thus add another 40M = 40 hours. Also he needs an excess of 2.2M summon xp.. - At around 100 crimsons an hour (and 400 xp a crimson), this is another 55 hours of gathering charms, making 5500 wolpertinger pouches (costing around 6300-3575). The summoning levels thus cost another 16M (= 16 hours). Now I ignored the time actually spend on "making pouches" (which will add another 4 hours or something). Thus the pre-elite skiller would need around 250 hours before he's a "true elite". - And notice that I didn't even take slayer into account (which is also a lot of efford to level from 85 - 93) Now for the combattant: his "only" problem is 86 rc and 91 fishing. The money for feathers for fishing will be ignored basically. Thus the time is equal to the time leveling. RC is a bit of difficult to guess (low levels are slow leveling), yet in 80+ levelling with 75K xp/hour is possible.. On average lets say you level with 50K xp/hour. for 86 you would need 3.6M xp: that's thus 72 hours fishing also levels at around 85K xp/hour, you would need. For 91 you would need 6M xp: that's thus 71 hours. the third high level skill is smithing 85 is necessary: for easiness sake consider training with mithril platebodies the whole time, morphic hammers will be used (the total time to smith + gather hammers earns the same xp/hour as normally, but half the gold is needed): 32.5k mithril bars, a 1.8k each = 58.5M coins. Thus around 15 hours for the combatant to collect. Now the problem would be smithing them, but lets say this method is around 250k xp/hour (which is pretty low): that means for the 3.3M xp we need it takes around 13 hours to smith. Finally agility might pose a problem, a level from 75 is needed. This is around 1.2M xp. Being slow to level (30k xp an hour at these levels) this would take another 40 hours. Summing all time needed: 72 + 71+ 15 + 13 + 40 = 210 hours.[/b] The difference between someone who levels equally, and someone who didn't is: 250 hours needed to become elite, vs 210 hours needed (and now I was really exaggerating the time needed for the combatant, and since I assumed the skiller had 92 summoning: was reducing the time for him - also I didn't include slayer, but this would even make the skiller fall more behind on average). There still is a 40 hour difference - or a "20% gab" between a well rounded character and a character who's only combat based. And really is "85 in all skills + 91 fishing" 20% worse than "88 herblore 95 pray, rest 1"

I really dislike how prayer & herblore are again the big requirements.. Again an update which caters for those who train combat (and thus gain money) mainly.. For skillers it's a real pain to get 95 prayer/herblore nowadays.

And I actually see it as an example of very good quest design: You're not dependent on "take item Y to point C, and solve puzzle X which has nothing to do but I just like to give it to you" type of quest.. You're given a task at start (beat the problem that is in the center of a passage), and then slowly progress towards the end.. The quest was a "complete" experience and you never had to go back outside the quest to gather things or take things - everything is handed to you inside the dungeon! I consider the follow up quest (roving elves) to be much worse: first you have to go through everything again to find a person (not too bad), but then suddenly mid-way you have to do it again.. And again. And in the end it was all just a task-list of: hey deliver this package to .... for me. You didn't get the feeling you were "in" the quest! i see your vew, and it have truth in it. but i think underpass is a badly made quest. at least in the elf quest, i may not of felt like i was in a quest, but i dident feal like i was in hell (i hate underpass quest sooooooooo much) yes i like the idea of everything required being inside there (say but your levels and food/money you take with you), but its tormenting players becouse thay got bad luck. failing to do a quest becouse a random number genorator hapens to deside to dislike you for a while = bad. i dont care what you say, my vew of that one line will not change. where is the skill in clicking a rock and moveing over it, or not. where is the skill in clicking a opening a chest for a daimond, or not (and loseing your lock pic at the same time). etc. well on a side note, one good thing comes from underpass, at one point you have the option of skiping a hole room if you got 50 theafing. thats what im talking about!, not required but faster/easier with high skills. hmm, speeking on bad quest design. legends quest. running from a to b does not make a quest. but seamingly running from a to b to c to e to a to e to b to e to c to a...... makes a quest. Legends quest is "relic" quest from the very beginning of runescape.... Also, strangely I only went out once to gather items.. And (with 60 agility) back then I failed only 7-8 times. - But this also added amazing excitement (I was really happy for the few stews I gained, it was exactly enough).. - Also isn't this a good example of quests which get easier with higher (agility) levels? (with 65+ it was peanuts when I went through it for mep 2, and now with 80 I simply don't have to think at all).