acenator

But I wanna post.. :( No, you can't.... Someone lock this please before someone posts? :pray: Yeah, lock it now, so I can winz.

Banned for mentioning zombies.

Guys, does it really matter what it would be classified as in real life? It would be illegal and that's all that really matters when trying to compare this to real life.

Banned for winning (over) 15,000 TET points.

^ THAT PERSON'S FACE

Skadoosh.

Banned because I just got home from my high school graduation ceremony and I'm extremely happy!

So it's a sad day when a company intervenes on a major problem that is hurting their players and the economy? I think not. Thats like saying it's a sad day when macro's were banned..... Don't be mistaken; I'm not suggesting that these manipulators are in the right--far from it. It's just that crucifying the mass-merchanting clans is only scapegoating writ large. The players engaged in manipulation practices are merely opportunists making use of the trade system Jagex made available in lieu of a free-market economy; they do not deserve to be vilified and banned to cover for Jagex's mistakes, as they are not the root of the problem--only a symptom. The people at Jagex are brilliant; as part of the gaming company which has gone farther and been more successful than any other in combating RWT, I'm sure they can devise some solution to this problem which will be agreeable to everyone. Hunting their own players is not the answer, rather, they should be working with us to solve this. I couldn't agree more. It's just that, while formulating and working on a plan to fix this, they could also do a few basic things (such as adding a rule with a grace period to allow people who don't want to break the rules time to get out and "resetting" prices in the middle of a buyout using the afore-mentioned rule as the reason for their actions) and try to at least limit the manipulation.

Yeah, I still mourn the loss of free trade. I think it can be :P So lets say......Irits and eye of newts are being controlled, and I have enough money in my bank to buy 99 herb with irits. So I do. But I get Deployed, can't afford the vials or 2nds and try to make them I deserve to be treated the same because I hoarded and mass bought? Sure hope not. What if I change my mind and think herblore sucks and sell them? or what if I buy irits thinking 'man, irits are in style, i can make cash with these" unbeknownst to me - an entire clan is making a false demand - now I get banned with them? is that fair? The first part is easily avoided by looking to see whether or not you dump with/before the clan since your dumping clearly shows that you really didn't want to use said items. With the second, I can see your point, but any honest merchant would probably be smart enough to see what's happening and get out of the way. Maybe you're right and trying to ban everyone involved is the wrong way to go. Maybe Jagex should make the rule against organizing a group to manipulate prices and just target clan leaders while also (purposely) repeating what happened to limps and discouraging clans by costing them a bunch of money (again, they could use trade histories for this and is it really that hard to look at an item's price graph and what's going on in-game in regards to that itme and tell whether or not it's being manipulated?).

how will players report people in a faceless economy? How will they gain entry to very guarded private forums, that if it was outlawed, people would use fake names on probably. How would a trade history differ from an independent merchant? Big Brother is not an economist. :lol: With instructions on what to buy spreading from person to person, word would (evetually) get out on who was leading a merch clan. As for private forums, they could cross-reference the trade histories with what is being said on the private forums (gaining access might be a problem, but I'm sure they could figure out a way) and single out groups of people buying up large quatities of a certain item (or jsut drop the search for private forums and just look through the trade histories). Any honest merchant trying to steal a bit of profit from the clan by joining in the buying and then dumping early would have to be treated the same as an actual clan member as, by buying the item without the intent to actually use it (this could be determined by looking at whether or not they bought anything that is needed in order to use said item; if nothing like this exsists, they could jsut wait until the dump and see who just resells everything), they are helping to force the prices up just as the actual members are. EDIT: As for extremely rich solo merchants who can influence prices with what htey have in their banks, it would be easy to see that only one person was involved and that a ban is not necessary. Also, the lack of intent to use an item would, of course, need to be applied to all involved in order to make sure innocent people aren't also banned.

Why haven't they done that already? But if they do How can they prove you are with someone and not a solo merchant? I see your point and I don't have an answer other than that Jagex could go off of player reports, find private forums and track players from them and, possibly, use trade histories. All they really have to do is ban a few rich clan leaders and scare off at least most others from trying again. Not to mention that they could also have their GE Team get to work and (purposely) do what happened to limps and just lower the prices during the middle of the [bleep]es and make the clans lose a ton of money while using the rule as their reason for doing so.

Yep, that'd certainly be nice. Unfortunately, it'll never be so--too much freedom will precipitate RWT, while too little will inevitably result in Jagex setting rigid price restrictions. There is no middle ground in this conflict, and since rampant RWT is not an option (as Jagex has made clear), we'll have to make due with a flawed system. At least manipulators can't cause any permanent damage; the prices of the items they merchant will always rebound at some point. The formation of mass merchanting/price manipulating clans is a necessary evil 'scapers will have to tolerate, because Jagex can't allow free trade but will only make our current situation worse if they try to rectify the "problem" posed by these clans. 'Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Jagex could easily end the influence of merchant clans by introducing a rule that organizing in game to buy out a product was a bannable offense. No messing with the GE or any game mechanics that restrict trade; just add the rule and start handing out bans and the clans will disband.

Banned for superheating mith bars.

I'm loving the history lesson, but, frankly, that was then and this is now and, personally, if one person, like Bluerose, is the only one able to make something, they should be able to have power over anyone who wants one and can't get one from any other source. Doing what she did took time and planning and skill. What merch clans are doing requires pretty much nothing except for members and money. As for the "I want it NOW" mentality, I will agree that people should be patient and/or more willing to get their own supplies, but that is still beside the point: people who want to buy something should be able to do so without having to wait several days (or, possibly, a week or two) to do so simply because a group of people wanted to buy up all of said item in order to make a profit off of anyone not paying close enough attention. Again, this problem has two causes: merch clans and the fact that the GE pricing system is faulty. Maybe I should be pushing more for fixing the GE since allowing prices to flow more freely would make merch clans' influence shorter-lived if not impossible, but price manipulation that defies the laws of supply and demand, no matter the circumstances, is, in my mind, wrong.

@ FooK-A-Ji: On the issue of the consumer:gatherer ratio, there is no way to know for sure how imbalanced it is (or if it is even imbalanced at all) and, even if it is imbalanced, stable prices (which we generally have), in my mind, mean that there is balance in that supply and demand at said prices are being met (with the exception of items at their price floors/celings or restricted by price ties, of course). This is because, with stable (unmanipulated) prices, items are generally easy to trade. I will agree that people blame merchants in general for too much, but who else, other than the clan buying out an item, is to blame for said item's being completely unbuyable when said clan is obviously buying up as much of said item as they possibly can? When it comes to price manipulation being against the rules/Jagex policy, I see your point and will have to concede that it isn't a rule or an official Jagex policy of any kind. As such, my position is that Jagex should add a rule banning price manipulation and my hope is that that is all that is needed to bring an end to it (I don't see how the threat of bans wouldn't discourage the leaders of the clans from continuing their operations, but I guess you never do know). If Jagex takes a more extreme/stupid route, believe me when I say I will fight it just as I am fighting their apparently doing nothing. As for the topic of this thread, I stand by what I said. The topic is what Mod Mat K did specifically (or, really, what happened on the GE) and how merchant clans have responded. We are discussing this by discussing our opinions on what merchant clans do and whether it is right or wrong. You opinion not seeming to get received well is simply because you seem to disagree with the majority here and I see no problem with your (or Das's) disagreeing with the majority. As for the question of Das's modship, I see no problem with him continuing to be a mod. Mods have just as much of a right to voice their opinions as anyone else here. As long as they don't express their opinions with bans or the locking of threads, I see no problem. P.S. Don't worry about sounding like a prune. As long as nobody starts throwing around insults, I really don't care what anyone's tone is.

But Jagex has said they will take action when price manipulation is taking place. Have you not seen the excerpt from the KB that has been posted several times? This doesn't necessarily make what these clans are doing against the rules, but it does support the idea that price manipulation is wrong and that Jagex doesn't like it. And when did anyone say that they couldn't make money because of merch clans? I have yet to see someone say they can't make money. The most popular argument is that merch clans make everyday items that people want/need for a certain activity(s) unbuyable. I agree that the GE has problems other than the fact that it allows for this blatant price manipulation, but that is not what we are discussing here. If you were to start a thread to discuss all the problems of the GE, I would gladly discuss all those with you, but right now, the topic of discussion, in my mind, is merchant clans only.

Username: Acenator Location of Circus: Falador What were you wearing?: Nothing Agility Event Description: 9x emotes (Flap, Slap Head, Zombie Walk, Zombie Dance, Scared, Bunny Hop, Snowman Dance, Air Guitar, Safety First) Agility Event Points: 27 Mage Event Description: 10x emotes (Flap, Slap Head, Zombie Walk, Zombie Dance, Zombie Hand, Scared, Bunny Hop, Snowman Dance, Air Guitar, Safety First) Mage Event Points: 30 Ranged Event Description: 10x emotes (Flap, Slap Head, Zombie Walk, Zombie Dance, Zombie Hand, Scared, Bunny Hop, Snowman Dance, Air Guitar, Safety First) Ranged Event Points: 30 Sorry about it taking this long for me to get around to this. I graduate high school today ( \ ) and this last week has been a bit busy. As for your theory about the preferred things, that could very well be true. It'll be interesting to find out.

Those items that update more than 5% are generally low-value items that, if they weren't given more than the 5%, would only have a med price or would not have the ability to change by any percentage close to 5%. Items like the batta tin, for example, have to be able to change prices which is why they have a +/- 1 gp price range instead of the +/- .2 gp that they would have if the 5% rule applied to them. Also, items like the big fishing net are allowed to change ~6% or 7% because, if they were to be kept under the standard 5%, they would really only be able to move ~3% or 4%. Those types of items are the only ones you are likely to find on those lists and, from what I've seen, the only time other items are on there is when Jagex interferes or the GE does something we didn't know it was supposed to do (which one happens cannot be confirmed unless Jagex tells us and that, generally, isn't going to happen). Actually, that's only a money sink if you don't buy your supplies from other players and chances are that didn't/won't happen. If I were to start training herblore right now, I'd go straight to the GE to buy my supplies and all that does is move money from my bank to someone else's. As for the rest of your example, that is purely your opinion. Yes, you bettered your character's stats and made finished products to be sold, but whether or not that is something you really wanted to do just because you wanted some zammy brews is your opinion. EDIT: I don't care if anyone is making or has more money than I do. Heck, if RS turned truly communist, I'd have to quit because I'd probably lose most of my stuff and wouldn't be able to do anything. I just don't think it's right that these clans are allowed to make money off of everyday 'scapers just because they have enough money to manipulate prices and create their own demand by buying up most of the supply of an item(s).

You forget the fact that they also differ in that lone merchants just play off of real supply and demand while clans monopolize the supply in order to make their own demand, make life harder and more expensive for anyone else trying to get whatever they're buying out, and then screw over any members not on when the dump happens (or, more likely, any members who don't dump early). Yes, you can also profit off of these clans by buying after the dump when prices drop below what they were before or by selling items during the buyout, but, overall, they do more harm than good. Now, I agree that free markets that can easily operate off of supply and demand with little government intervention (government, in my opinion, should really only get involved in the economy to stop fraud and monopolies*) are a great idea and work better than any socialist system out there. My problem is that these clans aren't working off of supply and demand, but, rather, form a monopoly on an item to create an "artificial" demand in order to push prices up and make a profit off of regular 'Scapers and the clanmembers who get screwed during the dump. *There are also some other situations that should warrant government intervention, but they are relatively minor and that discussion belongs in Off Topic.

I'm glad to see something's happening to these merchant clans. Personally, I'd just ban all the clan leaders (maybe give them a week to shut down just to be fair... maybe... ;) ), but dropping the price on items being manipulated seems to have entertaining results, so maybe they should just keep doing that. :lol:

This pretty much sums up my thoughts except I don't really have any goals on RS right now and I am, for all practical purposes, semi-retired (I'm in the "I only play mini-games for maybe 30 min's a day" phase :lol: ). The only reasons I'm sticking around, really, are that I have nothing else to do and I'm hoping the $5/month charge will transfer over to MechScape with my account (once MechScape comes out, I'm going to try it, switch over completely if I like it or, if I don't like it, retire from both games and just hang out in Off-Topic and Forum Games if I feel like staying on here at TIF).

Banned for noticing my spelling mistake.

Banned fro having a name without any capital letters... And because I pretty much just banned myself as well.

Because Elvis Presley got annoyed that they were drowning out his music and killed them all with a microphone. Why is the human brain so powerful?

Granted. Your cake is now a bomb that explodes as you go to cut it. I wish I could shoot mind bullets.