Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Because unlike you and many others on both sides, I am open minded about other people's beliefs. How am I not open-minded about beliefs? Now, I must be biased. I sit down with the boy and girl and explain exactly how abortions are carried out as I would explain the local adoption situation. I have my biases to make me Conservative. Why must you be biased? You agree with people hearing all options whether you are for or against the options. Using that, you must be able to see that on a larger scale hearing all options is more helpful to those people in particular situations. If anything I would go as far to say that you were not pro-abortion, but pro-choice. Whether you agree or not is not the question. it's whether you think choice is better for society or not. Since you practice that choice giving yourself, i would have to say your more pro-liberty. That doesn't mean you support things like aborition, it just means you accept people's right to choose. Lets take an example for myself. I personally don't really agree with sadomasachists however my opinion doesn't make me right, nor does it give me the right to ban such an action. My opinion doesn't neccessarily help society because we as humans are not infalliable. We should hear all opinions to develop truth as long as the actions people choose to take do not harm other people. Wow, enlightening. You think someone's right to choose what happens to them is more important than someone's right to live. Well next time someone tries to kill you because you are an inconvenience to them, make sure you don't infringe on their right to choose. Of course not, i don't myself know too much about the stages of when abortion becomes murder, or if a foetus can survive on it's own or has feelings. This isn't about personal bias when voting it's about what we think is best for society. Which is why I am questioning Bari's conservative stance. When he appears to me to be for liberty rather than for authority. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destro3979 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Obama!!! New Sig Coming soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jin_sakura226 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I think it's the black guy against Hillary Clinton.. I would vote for Hillary... hehehe so we can have a 1st woman president.. plus she's getting the majority of NY voters yall plus maybe woman voter =) wanna play ??^_^ total=1650+ =)time pass by so fast -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Because unlike you and many others on both sides, I am open minded about other people's beliefs. How am I not open-minded about beliefs? Well, you are constantly hounding me about mine, after all. Why must you be biased? You agree with people hearing all options whether you are for or against the options. Using that, you must be able to see that on a larger scale hearing all options is more helpful to those people in particular situations. If anything I would go as far to say that you were not pro-abortion, but pro-choice. Whether you agree or not is not the question. it's whether you think choice is better for society or not. Since you practice that choice giving yourself, i would have to say your more pro-liberty. That doesn't mean you support things like aborition, it just means you accept people's right to choose. Lets take an example for myself. I personally don't really agree with sadomasachists however my opinion doesn't make me right, nor does it give me the right to ban such an action. My opinion doesn't neccessarily help society because we as humans are not infalliable. We should hear all opinions to develop truth as long as the actions people choose to take do not harm other people. Exactly. I'd be happy if abortion was banned, but I can't stop people from doing it. It hurts me that thousands of fetuses are killed (whether or not you believe they are alive or not) every month. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Because unlike you and many others on both sides, I am open minded about other people's beliefs. How am I not open-minded about beliefs? Well, you are constantly hounding me about mine, after all. Does that mean i don't accept them or that I disagree with them in some respects? My whole philosophy on life is that each opinion has as much weight as the next mans, whether I agree or disagree with it or not. That doesn't mean I can't contest your views. Exactly. I'd be happy if abortion was banned, but I can't stop people from doing it. It hurts me that thousands of fetuses are killed (whether or not you believe they are alive or not) every month. Personal opinion as you say doesn't dictate your beliefs in what is best for society as a whole. You have given people the ability to choose what decision they make and given them a rational and honest veiw of abortion. Thats pure liberalism. Take this as an example: If either a public officer or any one else saw a person attempting to cross a bridge which had been ascertained to be unsafe, and there were no time to warn him of his danger, they might seize him and turn him back without any real infringement of his liberty; for liberty consists in doing what one desires, and he does not desire to fall into the river. Nevertheless, when there is not a certainty, but only a danger of mischief, no one but the person himself can judge of the sufficiency of the motive which may prompt him to incur the risk: in this case, therefore, (unless he is a child, or delirious, or in some state of excitement or absorption incompatible with the full use of the reflecting faculty,) he ought, I conceive, to be only warned of the danger; not forcibly prevented from exposing himself to it. Which is exactly what you are doing, you from what you say appear to be a liberal not a conservative. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Baffles me. My job entails me to be liberal. I don't like it, but it pays the bills. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So if the situation occured outside of you're work you would not even bring aborition into the conversation, and you would dismiss the very option of even informing them about it being an option. Then you would use your judgement and tell them to keep the baby? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So if the situation occured outside of you're work you would not even bring aborition into the conversation, and you would dismiss the very option of even informing them about it being an option. Then you would use your judgement and tell them to keep the baby? Outside of work, yes. I also work infrequently with social workers who could find another family to take care of the child. These are private case workers, not working for the state. That means they take pride in finding good homes. If it weren't for my job, I wouldn't have even brought up the abortion clinics. And to take it further, I'd probably chastise them for having premarital relations based on my religious doctrines. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Outside of work, yes. I also work infrequently with social workers who could find another family to take care of the child. These are private case workers, not working for the state. That means they take pride in finding good homes. If it weren't for my job, I wouldn't have even brought up the abortion clinics. And to take it further, I'd probably chastise them for having premarital relations based on my religious doctrines. So you would have no problem in enforcing your morality over everyone else in society whether they beleive in it or not. Which goes against any form of empirical process to finding truth, under the opinion that you have the truth already. Which is justification for banning what you deem to be immoral acts under law. So, you are of the opinion that if someone beleives an act is immoral you have justification to censor such act? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 My thought on that is if my opinion carries no weight with them, they can do whatever they want. I'm not going to go tie them to a pole to force my will upon them. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So you don't wish to censor non-illegal acts which you beleive to be immoral? So why would you only tell the pregnant girl about your own beleif and not about the abortion clinic if you don't wish to force your view upon them? Holding such infomation back is forcing your view upon them. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So you don't wish to censor non-illegal acts which you beleive to be immoral? So why would you only tell the pregnant girl about your own beleif and not about the abortion clinic if you don't wish to force your view upon them? Holding such infomation back is forcing your view upon them. I would imagine that if such a situation occured, they would already know about abortion. They would be talking to me as a friend or acquaintance, not in a professional capacity. Of course I would be frank with them. However, I can't really think of a situation like that outside of my professional responsibility. Not many strangers off the street would ask you about pregnancy woes. And my friends would know my opinions on the matter in the first place. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender2516 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So you don't wish to censor non-illegal acts which you beleive to be immoral? So why would you only tell the pregnant girl about your own beleif and not about the abortion clinic if you don't wish to force your view upon them? Holding such infomation back is forcing your view upon them. You lack the knowledge of the definition of "force". ~Defender~ If you love me, send me a PM. 8 - Love me2 - Hate me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubsa Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Ah, screw you guys, I'm voting Christopher Walken! --> :shock: This is how much you all raised for charity. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I would imagine that if such a situation occured, they would already know about abortion. They would be talking to me as a friend or acquaintance, not in a professional capacity. Of course I would be frank with them. It doesn't really matter if the issue is abortion or not, any act which you deem to be immoral you have said you wouldn't force onto people. Why wouldn't you force it onto someone? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So you don't wish to censor non-illegal acts which you beleive to be immoral? So why would you only tell the pregnant girl about your own beleif and not about the abortion clinic if you don't wish to force your view upon them? Holding such infomation back is forcing your view upon them. You lack the knowledge of the definition of "force". ~Defender~ 4. power to influence, affect, or control; efficacious power: the force of circumstances; a force for law and order. 6. persuasive power; power to convince: They felt the force of his arguments. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender2516 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So you don't wish to censor non-illegal acts which you beleive to be immoral? So why would you only tell the pregnant girl about your own beleif and not about the abortion clinic if you don't wish to force your view upon them? Holding such infomation back is forcing your view upon them. You lack the knowledge of the definition of "force". ~Defender~ 4. power to influence, affect, or control; efficacious power: the force of circumstances; a force for law and order. 6. persuasive power; power to convince: They felt the force of his arguments. Nice dictionary quote, but you still lack the definition of force. ~Defender~ If you love me, send me a PM. 8 - Love me2 - Hate me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I would imagine that if such a situation occured, they would already know about abortion. They would be talking to me as a friend or acquaintance, not in a professional capacity. Of course I would be frank with them. It doesn't really matter if the issue is abortion or not, any act which you deem to be immoral you have said you wouldn't force onto people. Why wouldn't you force it onto someone? Is it a requirement to be a Conservative Fundamentalist Christian who votes Republican to force their beliefs onto everyone? My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 How can I lack the definition of force, when that is the definition of force? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I would imagine that if such a situation occured, they would already know about abortion. They would be talking to me as a friend or acquaintance, not in a professional capacity. Of course I would be frank with them. It doesn't really matter if the issue is abortion or not, any act which you deem to be immoral you have said you wouldn't force onto people. Why wouldn't you force it onto someone? Is it a requirement to be a Conservative Fundamentalist Christian who votes Republican to force their beliefs onto everyone? No, I'm asking why you won't force your beliefs onto everyone. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender2516 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 How can I lack the definition of force, when that is the definition of force? Yes, that is the definition of force, you lack the understanding of its meaning though. ~Defender~ If you love me, send me a PM. 8 - Love me2 - Hate me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So I don't lack the definition like you said, i now lack the understanding of it;s meaning, how do i lack the understanding of it's meaning? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender2516 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 So I don't lack the definition like you said, i now lack the understanding of it;s meaning, how do i lack the understanding of it's meaning? You believe the meaning of force is passing knowledge from conversations and any lack of knowledge is "forcing" someone to hear your belief. However, this is wrong definition of force and impossible because everyone believes something. Therefor, by your understanding, no one could ever talk due to "Forcing" someone's belief on the other. Real Force is having the hearer having no choice in the matter. However, they always have a choice. Information passing from 1 mouth to the other is not forcing. For example, if I was to tell someone about christianity, you may come up and say i'm forcing my belief on them, because what if they don't want to hear about christianity? Is this forcing? It is not. Because that person can just say "stop, I do not wish to hear" or do the most simplest thing "get up and walk away". I have no control or forcing them to listen. If they do not wish to listen, then it is up to them to bring it up in the conversation. Therefor, the only force in passing information is one to be stubborn to hear something they do not wish to hear and then claiming they was forced to hear it. Thats quite arrogant and foolish. ~Defender~ If you love me, send me a PM. 8 - Love me2 - Hate me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubsa Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Well please, Defender, oh knowledgable one, instead of posting one line put downs (for a change), how about expanding and explaining? This is how much you all raised for charity. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defender2516 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Well please, Defender, oh knowledgable one, instead of posting one line put downs (for a change), how about expanding and explaining? Hmm I think you spoke alittle too soon. ~Defender~ If you love me, send me a PM. 8 - Love me2 - Hate me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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