rethinking the "no returned items" policy

[ixfd64]

Currently, Jagex has a strict policy on not returning items that are lost, due to people misusing customer support. Even if Jagex is sure that the player has unfairly lost items, Jagex only offers the player an apology.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, some people do lost expensive stuff, such as party hats, to major glitches, such as the 666 massacre.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since Jagex doesn't return items even in this situation, it has often been criticized. Some game companies, do, however, return items in certain cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, this would alos lead to fake scams in an attempt to gain items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imagine this following scenario:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Player X creates a fake scamming account, Y.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Y "scams" X out of 2 million, and X reports Y. After a while, Y transfers the 2m back to X, breaking rule 8 at the same time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since Jagex cannot link X and Y because the use of a proxy, Jagex bans Y and gives X 2m. X has scammed 2m off Jagex at the cost of a "disposable" account.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In summary, here are the pros and cons of returning items:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pros:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Makes game more fair

 

 

 

2. Other companies do it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cons

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Encourages misuse of customer support

 

 

 

2. more workload for staff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think should be the solution? Personally, I have no idea.

[fly_to_fall]

They should leave it the way it is..

 

 

 

Ifs your fault if you die from a glitch. (because its so hard to go upstairs/teleport away from someone attacking you..)

[HardyZ003]

well.. it would be better.. but they should make the report system more advance so its harder to scam Jagex.

[Duke_Freedom]

Ifs your fault if you die from a glitch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The logic of people here at tip.it is just so great. The whole idea of a glitch is that it's not your fault, but hey, we'll just say it's your fault anyway. :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I have always had mixed feelings with this. It is my opinion that if the game company is really at fault and if the game company is undeniably and directly the cause of the loss of a person's items then the game company is obligated to give the items back to said person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In all other cases I'd say it could be misused too easily, which is something you don't want to happen either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex' policy is however the easiest and it seems that Jagex always takes the easiest road whereever they can.

[WookieeMania12]

yes, I can also imagine Jagex returning pked items :ohnoes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

luckily they won't do that, but, because CS gets abused by idiots, Jagex works harder and returning items would cause trouble.

[Gin_and_Tonic]

Keep it as it is...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People in the 666 Mas lost items long ago... How d'you think they'll feel if people are allowed returned items now and they're not?

[GrimHams]

Jagex would need to be completely full proof which is impossible, it would cause more problems which i doubt jagex wants to walk in to.

[zubeedoo]

Jagex would need to be completely full proof which is impossible, it would cause more problems which i doubt jagex wants to walk in to.

No, they wouldn't. Let's be perfectly honest, do you really think that it's a bad tradeoff to have the occasionnal little kid getting something they didn't earn in exchange for the safety of only being able to lose an item to circumstances you control?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually this is another one of the things I love about eve, if you lose something to a bug (or even lag, assuming the lag is happening server side) it gets replaced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually as I was typing that something occured to me.

 

 

 

Why would jagex returned scammed money to someone? A bug is one thing, but I see no reason for them to go as far as to return scammed items, (unless the scam involved a glitch or bug) because that is in no way their fault, if you get scammed it's your own damn fault.

[meb]

They should leave it the way it is..

 

 

 

Ifs your fault if you die from a glitch. (because its so hard to go upstairs/teleport away from someone attacking you..)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I, unlike you apparently, do not carry 10 sharks adn a teletablet aeverywhere I go.

[fly_to_fall]

 

They should leave it the way it is..

 

 

 

Ifs your fault if you die from a glitch. (because its so hard to go upstairs/teleport away from someone attacking you..)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I, unlike you apparently, do not carry 10 sharks adn a teletablet aeverywhere I go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well maybe you should. (i carry 3 monkfish btw) >.>

[123Yourgone]

So what do you do if some one has a glitch where they can attack anywhere and teleblock you?

 

 

 

Im sure you would be like "oh well i lost a blue hat but it was my own fault".

 

 

 

Think before you post.

[fly_to_fall]

So what do you do if some one has a glitch where they can attack anywhere and teleblock you?

 

 

 

Im sure you would be like "oh well i lost a blue hat but it was my own fault".

 

 

 

Think before you post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regular magic doesnt do much damage anyway. And it would be my fault, you should always be prepared for anything. And besides that, its just a game. (oh my gawd!!!1one my fake hat, that wont help me at all irl is gone!!! ahh!!)

[123Yourgone]

 

So what do you do if some one has a glitch where they can attack anywhere and teleblock you?

 

 

 

Im sure you would be like "oh well i lost a blue hat but it was my own fault".

 

 

 

Think before you post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regular magic doesnt do much damage anyway. And it would be my fault, you should always be prepared for anything. And besides that, its just a game. (oh my gawd!!!1one my fake hat, that wont help me at all irl is gone!!! ahh!!)

 

 

 

#1 regular magic does identical damage to ancient, 30 is max on both, you can do 30 damage on normal magic 14 levels sooner then ancient, you can also drain prayer with it.

 

 

 

#2 BS, if its just pixels and you honestly dont care go drop your entire bank right now, whats that? you do care? then stop with the stupid posts.

[dino_slayer2]

I think it'd be more fair if you got your items back if it's a glitch and jagex's fault, but it's too unrealistic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's Extremely rare to lose items by dieing from a glitch, and people would misuse it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if anyone remembers the 666 massacre, there was a crowd of people with over 50 people claiming they had lost party hats, but in reality, no more than a few people really lost major items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, it'd make it more fair, but only if they could figure out a way to make it work without people claiming they lost items, and i don't think that's possible.

[ianer101]

#2 BS, if its just pixels and you honestly dont care go drop your entire bank right now, whats that? you do care? then stop with the stupid posts.

 

I hate people to come up with arguments like this. They are akin to the people who say "If you think that 1M is nothing, why don't you give me 1M?" Runescape is a game after all, but that doesn't mean she's going to drop all of her things because of that. Although Runescape is just pixels, we put time and effort into those pixels, which makes it fun. Losing a phat in Runescape is disappointing, but it shouldn't be a big deal to you in real life.

[123Yourgone]

#2 BS, if its just pixels and you honestly dont care go drop your entire bank right now, whats that? you do care? then stop with the stupid posts.

 

I hate people to come up with arguments like this. They are akin to the people who say "If you think that 1M is nothing, why don't you give me 1M?" Runescape is a game after all, but that doesn't mean she's going to drop all of her things because of that. Although Runescape is just pixels, we put time and effort into those pixels, which makes it fun. Losing a phat in Runescape is disappointing, but it shouldn't be a big deal to you in real life.

 

So you spend 6 months of your real life working to get a party hat, some loser takes it with a glitch and you shouldnt care?.

 

Words cant describe the stupidity im seeing in this topic, honestly i doubt any of you have actually had a party hat, or even worked to achieve something or you would know that the feeling of loss is very real.

 

Runescape takes time and dedication, if you dedicate yourself to ANYTHING pixels or not, losing it is a kick to the gut.

[zubeedoo]

#2 BS, if its just pixels and you honestly dont care go drop your entire bank right now, whats that? you do care? then stop with the stupid posts.

 

I hate people to come up with arguments like this. They are akin to the people who say "If you think that 1M is nothing, why don't you give me 1M?" Runescape is a game after all, but that doesn't mean she's going to drop all of her things because of that. Although Runescape is just pixels, we put time and effort into those pixels, which makes it fun. Losing a phat in Runescape is disappointing, but it shouldn't be a big deal to you in real life.

 

I fail to see how that argument, and even the example you give, aren't valid. Runescape is either important or it's not. It's either worth something or it isn't.

 

If you think it's just a game, and that losing large sums of gp isn't a big deal then yes, you should give your stuff to someone who appreciates it. If you're not willing to do so then clearly you don't believe your own argument, and you DO hold some value to your pixel items.

 

 

 

To many people, being rich in runescape is what makes the game fun for them. Take away their wealth and all of a sudden you've ruined their fun,more or less permanently because of the horribly large amount of boring things they'd have to do to re-obtain it.

 

 

 

The first time around, most people enjoy earning the gp needed to buy their expensive gear. You look back and think you didn't, but think of what it felt like like each time you made another million gp, it was another milestone and the feeling was similar to the one you got when you got your first full set of armor. The second time however, it's all been done before and getting the money seems more like a job then anything else. Since it takes months to accumulate enough gp to get a rare (if you're dedicated, if you're not it's nearly impossible to obtain),most people either give up right away or try, realize just how hard it is to get a rare and stop.

 

 

 

I'm working purely on speculation here, but I say that most people with rares in runescape in this day and age (who still play) are fairly dedicated players. RS is a sizeable chunk of their lives, and is most likely their main passtime. Now immagine having someone ruin your favorite passtime, and then tell me how it is that the game is "just pixels".

 

 

 

Oh and while I'm on the subject of just pixels:

 

Your bank account? Just Pixels

 

The money in your wallet? Just paper

 

Your car? Some plastic, glass and metal

 

Things are worth as much as people believe they are worth. If someone says that their phat is worth a lot to the then guess what? It is. Since when did YOU get to decide what should and shoudn't be a big deal for others? As someone who owns a rare I can honestly say that even now, months after I'd stopped playin (I do occasionally log on though) I'd STILL be really mad if something that I had no control over cost me my green mask, so I think it reasonnable to say that others, with more valuable rares who still play runescape on a near daily basis would be even more upset.

 

 

 

Now I'm sure you've noticed a bit of hypocrisy in my post, as I go on about not telling others what certain items' worths should be, only to do it myself. There's a reason for that. I'm working under the assumption that at least one person out there would be really upset if they lost their rare to a glitch in the game. It's an assumption, but one that I think we can all agree is a reasonable one. Now, if jagex introduced an update that helped even ONE person, without hurting anyone else, why shouldn't they do it? If you had the choice between completely ruining the game for someone, or making an update that 10 people didn't agree with (in principle only, as returning item lost to a glitch would not actually hurt anyone) would it really be a bad idea to do the update?

 

 

 

Jagex has claimed in the past to be able to track the transfer of gp (something they do to find RMTers), so would it really be that hard for them to track rares and expensive items as well? Surely they could tell if the person actually lost it to a glitch if there was a bug near where they were, and the item in question dissapeared (rather then being transferred to another player, actually, if they'd looked to see who'd lost phats in the world of the massacre and who's phats had turned up in the hands of whatsisname, they could have easily replaced all the lost goods).

 

 

 

Well I seem to have started rambling again :mrgreen: I'll stop here, since I've been typing long enough to have forgotten what it is I was originally rebutting :P

[shurikennin]

 

Ifs your fault if you die from a glitch.

 

-.- That's about the dumbest thing I heard today =D>

[shurikennin]

 

 

 

#2 BS, if its just pixels and you honestly dont care go drop your entire bank right now, whats that? you do care? then stop with the stupid posts.

 

Ok let's say you spent 3 hours on this painting and then someone comes and burns it.How would you feel?You just wasted 3 hours of your life doing something you enjoy(if you don't pretend you do).Oh but it doesn't matter the painting was just some canvas.Nah not a big deal right?Right? :wall:

[123Yourgone]

 

 

 

#2 BS, if its just pixels and you honestly dont care go drop your entire bank right now, whats that? you do care? then stop with the stupid posts.

 

Ok let's say you spent 3 hours on this painting and then someone comes and burns it.How would you feel?You just wasted 3 hours of your life doing something you enjoy(if you don't pretend you do).Oh but it doesn't matter the painting was just some canvas.Nah not a big deal right?Right? :wall:

 

Why qoute me then make the same point as me.

[ianer101]

#2 BS, if its just pixels and you honestly dont care go drop your entire bank right now, whats that? you do care? then stop with the stupid posts.

 

I hate people to come up with arguments like this. They are akin to the people who say "If you think that 1M is nothing, why don't you give me 1M?" Runescape is a game after all, but that doesn't mean she's going to drop all of her things because of that. Although Runescape is just pixels, we put time and effort into those pixels, which makes it fun. Losing a phat in Runescape is disappointing, but it shouldn't be a big deal to you in real life.

 

I fail to see how that argument, and even the example you give, aren't valid. Runescape is either important or it's not. It's either worth something or it isn't.

 

If you think it's just a game, and that losing large sums of gp isn't a big deal then yes, you should give your stuff to someone who appreciates it. If you're not willing to do so then clearly you don't believe your own argument, and you DO hold some value to your pixel items.

 

 

There's a difference between generosity and nonchalance when talking about money in a game. I do like having Runescape money, but I wouldn't care if I lost it because of a glitch. Things like that are beyond my control. Giving money away is different, as it is willfully done.

 

So you spend 6 months of your real life working to get a party hat, some loser takes it with a glitch and you shouldnt care?.

 

Words cant describe the stupidity im seeing in this topic, honestly i doubt any of you have actually had a party hat, or even worked to achieve something or you would know that the feeling of loss is very real.

 

Runescape takes time and dedication, if you dedicate yourself to ANYTHING pixels or not, losing it is a kick to the gut.

 

The difference here is the amount that we dedicate ourselves to the game. You clearly take Runescape more seriously than I do, the most time I spend playing in a day is one hour, if I'm fishing, which doesn't require my attention (that's why it's my favourite skill), I can even play up to two hours. Your estimation of 6 months for a party hat suggests that you play quite a bit more than me; it would take me more than 18 months at the rate that I play to get that much.

[zubeedoo]

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There's a difference between generosity and nonchalance when talking about money in a game. I do like having Runescape money, but I wouldn't care if I lost it because of a glitch. Things like that are beyond my control. Giving money away is different, as it is willfully done.

 

 

I think you've missed the whole point of that argument. It's not that the person SHOULD give away all their stuff, the idea is to prove that even runescape's pixel items hold value. Naturally how much value would depend on the person, but the items are worth more then just the pixels they appear as on the screen, which is why someone nearly always brings it up after some idiot comes along and says "ZOMG itz just a game nub"

 

 

...

 

The difference here is the amount that we dedicate ourselves to the game. You clearly take Runescape more seriously than I do, the most time I spend playing in a day is one hour, if I'm fishing, which doesn't require my attention (that's why it's my favourite skill), I can even play up to two hours. Your estimation of 6 months for a party hat suggests that you play quite a bit more than me; it would take me more than 18 months at the rate that I play to get that much.

 

I ask you this: If you stand to lose nothing by people who've lost items to glitches having their items returned to them, then why would you care if they do? Where exactly is the argument against returning items here? Sure YOU may not care, but other people DO, so why not give them an update that would stop jagex from ruining their favorite passtime?

[ianer101]

 

There's a difference between generosity and nonchalance when talking about money in a game. I do like having Runescape money, but I wouldn't care if I lost it because of a glitch. Things like that are beyond my control. Giving money away is different, as it is willfully done.

 

 

I think you've missed the whole point of that argument. It's not that the person SHOULD give away all their stuff, the idea is to prove that even runescape's pixel items hold value. Naturally how much value would depend on the person, but the items are worth more then just the pixels they appear as on the screen, which is why someone nearly always brings it up after some idiot comes along and says "ZOMG itz just a game nub"

 

Calling me an idiot now? :notalk:

 

The value depends on the individual player, and in my opinion the value isn't very high. The items have as much value to each individual player as that player places in them.

 

I don't recall saying "ZOMG itz just a game nub," I just think that people shouldn't let Runescape take over their lives.

 

 

The difference here is the amount that we dedicate ourselves to the game. You clearly take Runescape more seriously than I do, the most time I spend playing in a day is one hour, if I'm fishing, which doesn't require my attention (that's why it's my favourite skill), I can even play up to two hours. Your estimation of 6 months for a party hat suggests that you play quite a bit more than me; it would take me more than 18 months at the rate that I play to get that much.

 

I ask you this: If you stand to lose nothing by people who've lost items to glitches having their items returned to them, then why would you care if they do? Where exactly is the argument against returning items here? Sure YOU may not care, but other people DO, so why not give them an update that would stop jagex from ruining their favorite passtime?

 

You're taking this out of context, I was responding to 123Yourgone about how much value I think that people should see in the pixels that make up Runescape. In my opinion, of course.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Um... see I also have mixed feelings. Yes, of course it would be awfully nice of them to just give itmes out as compensation, but there's three big problems:

 

 

 

1) CS is inundated with, well, everything already. How do you suppose they could deal with such a sensative issue in a fair way in such a squashed space of time and pressure?

 

2) Little kiddies would flood CS, adding to problem 1), but also setting a belief that "if you beg hard enough, whine and do crocadile tears, you'll get what you want eventually".

 

3) It would, once again, raise the issue of fairness. Jagex may not be so concerned over giving out free rune scimmies as compensation for a glitch to a low-level player, but a brand new free party hat? I don't think so. So therefore, the whole issue of high level Vs low level gets swung into the frame again.

 

 

 

Until you can solve these three issues (and I believe there's no cure for 2) and 3)...), what you have pushed for isn't realistically gonna happen.

[shurikennin]

 

 

 

#2 BS, if its just pixels and you honestly dont care go drop your entire bank right now, whats that? you do care? then stop with the stupid posts.

 

Ok let's say you spent 3 hours on this painting and then someone comes and burns it.How would you feel?You just wasted 3 hours of your life doing something you enjoy(if you don't pretend you do).Oh but it doesn't matter the painting was just some canvas.Nah not a big deal right?Right? :wall:

 

Why qoute me then make the same point as me.

 

the last two sentences were sarcasm as you can see by the smiley