zubeedoo

Normally I'd be all over the OP's whiny self absorbed ONOES JADEX R MEEN CUZ IM DED!,especially given his picture (oh he replaced a j with an f and evaded a wordfilter by posting an image, that is so witty and clever!) but this is actually one of those few times when I actually agree with the OP when he says that the system sucks. Back when jagex went and gave their game a good solid kick in the groin with the GMS (thereby severely crippling my ability to make money as a merchant which was one of the reasons I stopped freaking playing in the first place) there was absolutely no reason for them not to integrate that into the death mechanics. Hell by now they should have introduced a system wherein you can CHOOSE which items you keep, but failing that they could at least make the damn system run off of the REAL (stop calling it the street price, it implies that it's not the proper price to be using when describing the value of an item) price instead of the arbitrarily decided high alch prices. (and yes the values are arbitrarily decided by jagex, because not everything can be made) And to the people saying that it was the OPs fault for losing his stuff, you're missing the point. Someone messing up and seeing how messed up the drop system is because of it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the system itself needs an update. Him being a derp and dying/losing his stuff doesn't change the fact that he should not have lost the specific items that he did. To make a more extreme example: Let's say that the OP encountered a bug, wherein when dying he not only loses his items, but one of his skills gets reset. Now say he goes and dies doing something stupid (like, say, forgetting his d shield, and forgetting to teleport...). The fact that he died doing something stupid doesn't change the fact that the consequences for his death are any less ridiculous.

Lately? I stopped playing this game 4 years ago, started playing 6 years ago, and at no point have I EVER seen runescape full of people who weren't taking the game seriously. Christ I used to be one of them :D

And Zubeedoo. They tore up rants together. Nice to see I'm still remembered :D And for the record: Assuming you deserve anything because you're a higher/lower level than someone else is stupid. Period. If you find yourself being beaten out by someone who's a higher level then you, move. There are lots of places to do damn near everything, so why the hell is it such a big deal if someone's beating you out for this one particular spot? That said, I don't condone people acting like munchs and running in and KSing/HKing/whatever else you crazy runescape kids do nowadays to win out over other people. Act like a derp and you'll get treated like one, mmk? God I haven't read these forums in ages, I'm gonna go spend some time absorbing all the rage in this subforum :D

The issue with RWT was that there was a massive flood of macro users all over the place. I was f2p at the time so I couldn't comment on p2p worlds but f2p ones were always crowded with the damn bots, making it very difficult to make money if you liked to WC (other professions were affected as well, but not very much, but again this was on f2p so I can't vouch for p2p). That was the driving force behind jagex' removal of the pking of old and free trade. Comparing your personal beliefs to something like murder is ridiculous. Murder is viewed as bad by most everyone, hence it's a very well drawn line that most people abide by. There's also the fact that there are several very logical reasons why murder is bad, and no I'm not going to list them because quite frankly I doubt anyone here doesn't already know them :P All you've done is declared something as being bad, saying that it's your opinion and that opinions can't be wrong despite there not being supported by any sort of facts or logic. Well it's my opinion that you're an idiot, so there. What exactly makes runescape, well, runescape? When I first started playing I loved mining and smithing, I later switched to mining due to the imbalance of how XP is obtained by both, but because of that I played a lot less, because the game didn't interest me nearly as much. Eventually I found that I loved trading, and that took over as my main passtime in RS, with mining becoming the thing I'd do when not in the mood to trade. Now, because I was an F2Per, p2p things had nothing to do with me. I can honestly say that had jagex completely removed the entirety of their p2p content I'd have barely even noticed, let alone actually cared. But that's because p2p was not the RS I played, and as such removing it would have in no way killed the game for me. That being said, given that f2p content if something like under a third of the total RS content, it would in no way be unreasonable to say that removing all p2p stuff would be as close to killing the game as you could get without shutting down the servers. Weird isn't it? Jagex could have killed their game and it'd have not bothered me a bit, but had they removed mining, I'd have stopped playing something like a month in. Any time you remove part of the game, you're killing it for the people who enjoyed that part. Though this does also sort of fall under the my-opinion-is-superior category, what they say can at least be backed up, as though it is true that the game itself may not have been killed, it's easy to see that parts of it were, not to mention the fact that even if you ignore my first argument about opinions, you realize that by defending your opinions as being right because it's all subjective you're also defending their subjective view of what RS is and what exactly kills it, if you yourself believe that a perspective can't be wrong then you shouldn't be here arguing that someone else's perspective IS. People make mistakes all the time, the thing that separates the people who deserve to get yelled at from the people who don't is how they go about handling said mistakes. If lots of people were complaining about a specific update ruining the game for them then yes, jagex SHOULD listen, and in what way is undoing a patch 'unfeasible'? If jagex doesn't keep copies of older patches then they're idiots and deserve whatever criticism they get, and if they do have older copies then there shouldn't be a problem. RWTers? What are RWT...ohhhhhh you mean those things that every mmo in existence has to deal with but somehow manage to do so without killing PKing and free trade, those RWTers right? A dead RS is exactly what they're aiming for by...No, I can't do it. I can't dumb myself down enough to actually believe that a single update or lack thereof would actually completely shut down the server, not gonna happen. The only thing that's surprising here is that people actually believe that the game was/is going to die completely, it's not. The fact that people are STILL complaining about 2 specific updates doesn't mean that these people are being unreasonable, it's that the 2 updates in question were really, really bad ideas. Remind me again why RWTers were some unstoppable force in RS but not in other games? Jagex dealt with RWT in a way that was poorly thought out and ruined the game for a lot of people. I do miss arguing on these forums, it's fun ^_^

It's fine to be upset that PKing is gone, but there is definitely an unwarranted amount of complaints about it. I can either believe there are people out there who actually deify a simple video game feature to an unjustifiable extent (some even made it seem like their lives revolved around it), or I can believe that they are just looking for an excuse to complain - since that's what human beings are geared towards doing anyway. After all, nostalgia does tend to blow things out of proportion. That's not to say that people didn't enjoy it - I just have the feeling that a lot of people make PKing out to be something so extraordinary and great for argument's sake. What exactly makes the number of complaints unwarranted? What number of complaints WOULD have been warranted? And while I'm on this topic at what extent would it be justifiable to deify a game feature? You're trying to make people who whine about the death of the wildy seem unreasonable by claiming that they cross some sort of line, one that I assure you only exists on your head. Most people have a handful of things they enjoy in RS, which is why they play it, take away the part of RS that they enjoy and you've effectively killed the game for them, so I'd say just about any level of whining and complaining is justifiable, or at least as much as would be said if they decided to shut down the servers, which for many hardcore pvpers they may as well have. I myself am not a pvper though, I always liked playing with the market. I recently log on after about 3 years of inactivity, I even upgraded to a member's account (something I had never done before, and I had over 1000 total skills as an f2per). I try out all the new skills, new places, new quests, and get bored after about 5 days. Without the ability to merchant stuff like I used to, the game got incredibly boring for me, and has effectively been 100% ruined. As for what ratchet said:(too lazy to quote :P ) While normally I would agree that doing something as stupid as listening to your customers and actually using the feedback they provide to better their game is absurd, but in this case I think it may actually work. There's a difference between radically changing a game because people say they want it a certain way, and NOT changing a game because people are unhappy with the changes. If a change is made and the result is the majority of the community disliking it, it should be obvious to just about anyone that said change was a bad idea, no harm done by going back if that's what the customers want, whereas people suggesting to radically change the game rarely look at the consequences of their changes (though that being said player suggestions are not inherently bad, comparing all of them to guns and lasers is kinda...)

Who is this moad and why is he usurping me? For the maybe 3 of you who know who I am, I've grown bored of pretty much everything so I'm hopping back into RS for a bit, and in hopes of finding some of the people I used to hang out with I googled myself and stumbled across this topic. The fact that ANYONE remembers me makes me giggle though, since me and raichase were little more than trolls who loved to argue about everything :P

So I'm sort of bored atm, figured I'd look back into RS, I'm f2p, always have been and always will be, and I'm curious as to what changes the game has seen since I quit 3 years ago. First and foremost I want to make some money, without resorting to selling my green h'ween mask (worked my [wagon] off for that thing an I'll be damned if I'm gonna have to sell it :P) I have the ability to mine runeite, would that be the best way to go about pulling some cash? Are there better ways to make money for an F2Per? Also if anyone here actually remembers me say hi, I'd be very interested indeed to see if anyone I played with back in the day still log on ^_^

Welcome to the point of the thread. Neither pking nor skilling are needed to keep the game going, and what the OP suggested was removing the skills like mining,fishing, wc and other such things, not all skills. The point is that what jagex did was ridiculously stupid, but there are some people who think that it's acceptable because it limits the use of gold selling. Well, removing a bunch of the previously mentionned skills would also reduce gold selling, hell, removing gold altogether would all but eliminate it, but doing so would ruin the game, much like BH did for many people. You simply cannot put fourth any argument for keeping skills that couldn't be used for keeping pking the way it was, which is the whole point of this thread.

I see the point in this thread pretty clearly, when it said that he wants the non-combat skills taken out because they are the source of the autoers gold. You clearly don't see the point of this thread,it's one big statement showing how stupid and unfair it was of jagex to destroy pking in the name of stopping RMT. The OP makes this statement by making a suggestion that is NO DIFFERENT yet viewed as absolutely ridiculous. The EXACT way that you feel about having skills removed is what the PKers felt when THEIR favorite aspect of the game was destroyed. Removing skills from the game would NOT destroy the game, technically, but it would ruin it for a lot of players. Destroying PKing did not technically ruin the game, but destroyed it for a lot of people. That is one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen posted on these forum, and I've been here a while (anyone remember striker? :lol: ) Do you have ANY proof that it's only the pkers that buy RS gold? Or is this an assumption that you pulled out of thin air? I'd say a skiller desperate to get a rare or one who's working on a skill like smithing or fletching is every bit as likely to go to a GP selling site as a pker. And before you justify this ignorant statement by saying that skillers make money while pkers do not, how do you think the pkers got their combat levels up? Those lvl 90s running around the wildy didn't get their lvls by hitting a training dummy :? Skilling != all of RS (It's been a while since I last did an RS/RW comparisson, so forgive me if it sucks :P ) Timmy likes to play games on the computer. Billy likes to watch TV. Billy tells Timmy that because their electricity bill is so high, he can only play on the computer for half an hour a day,thereby severly limiting Timmy's play time. Billy then goes and watches as much TV as he wants. Timmy likes to PK. Billy likes skilling. Because the the number of macro users and RMT is so high, jagex severely reduces Timmy's ability to PK Billy then goes and skills as much as he wants. PKing is every bit as much a part of RS as skilling is, so yes, if you truely believe that is was right for jagex to ruin it like they did while whining that removing (some) of the skills from RS would be bad then you are a hypocrite. It's either right of jagex to ruin important aspects of the game to limit RMT or it isn't.

To be quite honest I don't see how thinking differently of someone in RS compares at all to racism. The biggest problem with racism the reason why most people view it as bad, is the fact that we have no control over what race we're born as. Levels in RS are not pre-determined. Your level is directly proportionate to how much time you spend playing the game. A more accurate coparisson to real life would be having someone where you work who does nothing but slack off, and he gets promoted while you do not. In both instances you put more time and effort into what you do, only to have someone else come along, having invested less into what they're doing, and advance over you. Levels = actions, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I think of it as a bad idea to think differently of someone based on their actions.

Let it be known that zubee approves of this thread :mrgreen: I could stop and pick at every argument saying that this would be a bad idea for whatever reason/that skills are more important then pking becase... ... ... ... but quite frankly if you're arguing against removing skills from the game then you've completely missed the point of this thread. A lot of people now find that the fun has been sucked right out of RS, in the name of stopping macros, and tbh if you agree with the recent updates but think that it would be unjust for big bad jadex to touch skills you are a hyprocrite :|

Runescape has not become a grindfest, it was like that from the beginning, but when you started you'd not done enough to be aware of it. The quests you run as a p2per are no more monotonous then the f2p ones, try running the f2p ones several times over on new characters and you'll get sick of them pretty soon.

Guildwars has no grind, guildwars 2 will however. Eve uses a passive skill system, you plug in the skill and go about your buisness :mrgreen: Only downside is there's no real way to catch up to the people who started before you =\

/whistles Nice to see you're still here Duke :mrgreen: I should have known to check a rares argument for your posts :P Anyway I've got to leave soon so I'm going to make this really short: The only real reason rares and RMT go hand in hand is because once you start merchanting rares GP becomes a helluva lot easier to make. Really anything that allows large amounts of GP to be made eases RMT, but quite frankly until I see dragon drops being sold in armor stores at a fixed price I refuse to believe that jagex' hating rares is based purely on their contributations to RMT, it's pretty widely known that jagex hates rares just for being what they are, and I'd like to thank Duke for brining up that quote because I would have been way too lazy to do it myself :mrgreen:

1)Yes, YOU did say that, you SAID one thing but MEANT another. If I have to I could start disecting sentances to show you EXACTLY why what you said and what you meant were dfferent, but I'm hopeing that you've got the common sense to read both my and your original posts on the subject to see specifically what it is I'm talking about 2)You supported it AFTER I accused you of not supporting it, nuff said. 3)Amazing, I've stated and restated my point and you STILL don't get it. The fact of the matter is that (for example) police follow a different set of laws then everyone else. They can do things that others cannot (go try to arrest someone and see what happens). The same goes for mods and admins, they follow a different set of rules then the rest of us so stop complaining about it. No rules were broken, the mods just follow a different set of rules, just like minors/adults/seniors have different laws affecting them, just like cops/ambulance doctors/everyone else has different laws affecting them. Got it? I'll reword it again just to make sure: The exact same thing that you're complaining about on the forums happens IRL all the time. YOUR RULES =/= THEIR RULES, kapeesh?

1)Learn to speak/type proper english, go back to school and learn how the subject of a sentance is determined etc. Because what you meant and what you said are 2 different things. 2) If something is "clearly innacurate" it should be easy to support such a claim by stating the specific innacuracies, such as WHY the comparisson is not valid or what signifigant differences there are between the 2 situations being compared 3) So if the people writing laws say it's ok for some people to do things that others cannot, it's ok, but if a system admin (who unlike the politicians have 100% complete control over what happens here) says that some people can do things that others cannot it's somehow wrong? How is saying that minors can't drink any different from saying that non-mods have to follow certain rules that mods don't?

Makoto, while you bring up some interesting points I'm afraid you're missing several very important things: 1) Jagex keep rares in the game not because they want to, but because they don't want people to get all mad and leave if they deleted them. They have stated in the past (and as you said concerning databases I will say about rares, do your HW before challenging me on this) that rares were never meant to become the trade items they are today, and that making them tradeable was a mistake, but they've also stated that it would not be fair to the players who worked to get these items if they removed them, this being the main reason for their choice to keep them. 2)As far as deleting party hats that had been duped, there are a few reasons why they didn't: -They didn't want to waste the manpower needed to track them all down (we all know how they are with CS as it is...) -Deleting the items would be effectively ripping off anyone who'd bought them, rather then punishing the people who did the actual dupes. 3)As to why they havn't made them untradeable, many people bought these with the intention of re-selling them. How would you like it if jagex went and made all of your items worthless? The only real value of rares (looks aside) is their worth in terms of GP. Take that away and you'd be robbing a LOT of players of the majority of their wealth. 4)Saying that doubting jagex is enough on it's own to compromise ones judgement is ridiculous. NOT doubting jagex would hinder your abilities to think rationally more then doubting them would...

1) The proper way to word your last post would have been: "I'm still curious as to why we can't delete our own posts honestly." I don't usually correct grammar related stuff, but what you said was that you wanted the ability to delete/edit OTHER people's posts. 2)Somehow that doesn't surprise me... Here's what I did: In response to your post, I posted something that seemed false, offering no proof to support what I said. Sort of like what you did when you said my comparissons were "clearly innacurate". If you can't back up what you say with some sort of logic/proof, then don't bother posting it because it will have all the impact of calling someone a watermelon now see what I did? 3)The bouncers/bars were seperate examples. What I meant by them was that the bouncer can say that person A can get into the club while person B can't, and as such different rules apply to person A (is allowed to enter) and person B (who is not allowed to enter). The bar example sees person A (who is of legal drinking age) who is allowed to enter/drink while person B (who is underage) cannot. This is the exact same concept as forum mods getting to break certain rules. Rules are rarely the same from person to person, and special roles/status allow you to follow a different set of rules. As for the gun thing, I'm canadian, no guns allowed :(

Because anarchy is bad mmmkay? And you are a watermelon. see what I did there?

Rules ALWAYS differ from person to person, ESPECIALLY when private sectors are concerned. Here are a few examples for you: Bouncers at clubs Bars having a minimum age requirement (as well as many other things) Ever try going backstage at a concert without a pass? Why do some people get in while others don't? Why can police officers carry guns when I can't? Is it fair that seniors get discounts in stores? There are double standards everywhere, get used to it or you're going to lead a very miserable life. BTW by your logic is it not also unfair that mods get to delete, edit, move and otherwise mess with other people's posts? Why can't the rest of us? Oh and one more thing, the server admins here can do whatever the hell they want, it's their server. If that includes allowing some people to be above the rules then that's their decision. Don't like it? Well no one's forcing you to stay here now are they?

TBH I don't see why the idea of jagex using the GE to buy up rares is so ridiculous. Back when I was last playing there were several discussions on how jagex could (theoretically) remove most of the rares from the game without giving a giant middle finger to the people who owned them, and the suggestion that popped up quite often was a shop that bought rares for a decent price, thereby removing them from the game. I'm not going to say that the GE was created for this purpose, but is it really that hard to believe that while they were coding this someone might have said ''Hey, why don't we toss in a couple lines of code to help get rid of rares?'' Seriously, if jagex were to do something like that the GE would be the perfect place, specifically because people wouldn't know about it. They put a rare-buying store into eve and the prices of rares would skyrocket before anyone even sold a rare, specifically because people would think that their rares were getting rarer because of it. The genuine rarity of discontinued items plays a large part in their price, but the perceived rarity is even more important, if people think that rares are getting suddenly rarer then the market will react as though they are. Now, no one here is trying to say that this is what jagex is doing, it's all hypothetical/theoretical, but come on, if you're gonna scream LOL JADEX CONSPIRACY at least back it up with something, because as far as I can see it's a perfectly reasonable, plausible theory with nothing really disproving it.

1)Is it bad that shaz is the only one of these names I remember? Jeez I've been gone too long... 2) Jessy, these are not your forums, the fact that they are privately owned means the people chosen by the administration get to do whatever the hell they want. Don't like it? Tough, if it bothers you that much go and make your own forums and you can run them as fairly as you want, but what you're doing now is akin to complaining that employees at a store get free/cheaper stuff there, or that police officers get to walk around with guns (well it matters if you're canadian :P ) Quite frankly rules change depending on the person, not just in these forums but IRL as well. 3)Anyone here actually remember me? :mrgreen: What've I missed in the last year or so?

There are politics in eve, and I suspect any MMO where you can control land/space/sea would have it's own form of politics :mrgreen:

Eve is the reason I quit runescape, those that remember me knew that I played a lot, and spent a ridiculous amount of time on the forums, most notably the rants section before we had a debate club sub-forum. RS VS EVE: PVE: The play styles are similar in both games, choose your target and lock (right click) then shoot, and wait. As the level of difficulty progresses you need to make sure you have the right gear and the right skills to accomplish your goal. TBH the only real difference in how the pve is done is that EVE has much better graphics. PVP: This is where the differences get a lot bigger. EVE is a PVP game. In a high security system, if you shoot at someone CONCORD will blow your ship up. This acts as a deterrent when it comes to high-sec killings, but does not stop them completely. If you're hauling something worth more then my ship, and I find out about it I may just kill you and take your stuff, regardless of where you are. There's also something else that makes eve PVP better then RS: It serves a purpose. In eve, you can control space. The POHs of RS don't hold a candle to the Player Owned Starbases of eve. In eve you can do production, moon mining and other such things to make a POS worthwhile (The equivalent to having a bank, rune rock, furnace and anvil in your POH) POSs can also be shot down, and large fleet battles happen often (POSs are equipped with guns) to try and take out POSs, to keep people from having sovereignty (People own the systems, and owning systems has tactical/strategic/cash benifits) Corporations VS Clans: Clans in RS serve no real purpose.They're not even technically part of the game. In eve, corps are required to run POSs, they share funds, declare wars (allows people to be shot in high-sec without CONCORD interferance) and a host of other things. I'm going to stop here, since I've walked off from the computer several times since I started this post and no longer feel like dragging it out any more :P In short: EVE>RS :mrgreen: [/b]

When did you stop playing? Roughly 10 months ago Why did you stop playing? 2 reasons: My clan died, and the one that rose from its ashes died as well (both died at the whim of their owners, much to my annoyance) I found EvE-online :mrgreen: Do you still keep up with the updates? Only the holiday ones Do you still log on occasionally? I logged in today, and decided to see how long it would take me to get full guthix starting with a steel pickaxe =P How has your life changed? RS took up pretty much all of my free time, now I alternate between several games. What do you do on the computer now? Eve online, anarchy online, watching anime on dailymotion (just finished death note) Are there moments when you want to start playing runescape again? Had one earlier today :P