Satenza Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Everything is subjective, however. But let's not digress. So science is subjective? And as I've said. I'm using the love that's being shoved down my throat. But love is subjective not objective, so those feelings do exist it's just you don't want to label them as love. So take another feeling you have towards your girlfriend and describe that as love. Maybe it's a collection of feelings, i don't know since it's up to you. We aren't meant to be with just one person forever. How do you know? And why does that matter, we can still feel whether we label those feelings as love or not. Why do you think people cheat? They don't do without a reason. The whole idea of dating is pretty [bleep] retarted, but again, not the point. Does everyone cheat? If we were raised to just have sex, love never ever even mentioned. Do you think we'd still have relationships? Marriages? Divorces? Yes, because whatever we call love it is worth it and better to have it than not have it. And we always strive for what satisfies us. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild_goat_14 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Bad thing for me is, I like to know the girl before I date her, thats why I always get screwed over :? . Anyways, its hard to jump from friendship to relationship, because I'm stuck there now. :? I shall take my flock underneath my own wing, and kick them right the [bleep] out of the tree. If they were meant to fly, they won't break their necks on the concrete.So, what is 1.111... equal to?10/9. Please don't continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Jokes Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Everything is subjective, however. But let's not digress. So science is subjective? Possibly. Not as much as morals, justice, what's fair and not, beauty is also subjective. And as I've said. I'm using the love that's being shoved down my throat. But love is subjective not objective, so those feelings do exist it's just you don't want to label them as love. So take another feeling you have towards your girlfriend and describe that as love. Maybe it's a collection of feelings, i don't know since it's up to you. Well, with the love that's shoved down our throats. The impression I got was. "I love you. I want to only be with you, and nobody else. I have to make you happy." We aren't meant to be with just one person forever. How do you know? And why does that matter, we can still feel whether we label those feelings as love or not. Look at the animals. We are animals, except we can communicate more clearly, build/discover things etc. But deep down inside we're still animals. Don't you ever follow your instincts? Why do you think people cheat? They don't do without a reason. The whole idea of dating is pretty [bleep] retarted, but again, not the point. Does everyone cheat? Didn't say everyone does, but the temptation is there. Always will be. If we were raised to just have sex, love never ever even mentioned. Do you think we'd still have relationships? Marriages? Divorces? Yes, because whatever we call love it is worth it and better to have it than not have it. And we always strive for what satisfies us. If, there is such thing as 'love' then it's been bastardized. Only if. But I don't believe it exists. It's only been put out there through the media and church to keep monogamy. And 'love' makes quite a bit of money. Look at the OP. "Tom" bought flowers and a gift. Surprise, surprise. Proud founder of the Myriad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 If, there is such thing as 'love' then it's been [bleep]. Only if. But I don't believe it exists. Then you may aswell not believe that anger, doubt or any other emotion exist. Love is just a label given to a feeling or group of feelings by yourself. Doubting love doesn't make sense, it's just a label. Like if i were to say "I am mad" it could possibly sum up a few emotions like anger, hatred, disgust ect. Do you doubt madness exists? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Jokes Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 If, there is such thing as 'love' then it's been [bleep]. Only if. But I don't believe it exists. Then you may aswell not believe that anger, doubt or any other emotion exist. Love is just a label given to a feeling or group of feelings by yourself. Doubting love doesn't make sense, it's just a label. Like if i were to say "I am mad" it could possibly sum up a few emotions like anger, hatred, disgust ect. Do you doubt madness exists? Nah, I believe anger, hatred, disgust and all that exist, As does happines and all that. But. Not love. Proud founder of the Myriad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 So if i said i thought love to me was attraction, acceptance and happiness you would say that love does not exist? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigra00 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Haven't finished reading yet, but I can say this so far: Don't worry about not having dated in highschool or anything. I dated like 10 different girls the first 2 years of highschool and it was just a large waste of time in general. People date in highschool in a feeble attempt to get laid and be "cool" among their peers. Well, most do. I never really did. Didn't get laid in highschool (by choice, was offered, turned it down :P) and didn't want to. I was always looking for a long-term kind of thing, and I never really found it. I did date one girl for almost a year...She moved though. Might still be with her today, who knows. Anyways, my point is, dating should be taken seriously only after you're 18 and highschool is done. The whole purpose of dating is to find someone you'd like to be with long-term, more ideally, forever. There aren't many people who find this in highschool. Granted, I'm not really one to talk since I've been with my girlfriend since I was 15 and I'm 20 now and we're PRETTY sure we're getting married. :P A little more directed toward you personally, Trapical...Dude, didn't you say you're going to be a doctor? It doesn't matter what you do, women are going to flock. :P I don't know what it is about doctors, but the second a woman hears "doctor" she goes "REALLY?". One would assume it's all about how much money they make, but they never seem to have the same effect when you say "lawyer" or "software engineer", which make about the same money. :P Maybe she'd just like you to give her advice on her menstrural cycle..I don't know. :lol: But anyways, don't worry about it. Focus on your studying, and if that girl you like is smart, she'll see the light and give you a shot...I mean, really...She's dating some little kid who probably has no ambition, certainly not the ambition to be a doctor. She'll see the light, it just takes time. The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past. - Me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarddude Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I have to say you are an exellent writer, you capture the moment and are able to describe it vividly with grotisqic vocabulary. Anyhow, I am able to get a relationship with a girl, however, I am not able to keep it for very long; And I don't no why! :ohnoes: :uhh: :wall: :?: :-s :boohoo: :pray: "I have the Midas touch, anything I touch turns to mufflers"Feel free 2 pm me in game...( 0 people PM me so far)..You can do better then that!Donations of coal, gems,ess, and iron always accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Jokes Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 So if i said i thought love to me was attraction, acceptance and happiness you would say that love does not exist? Perhaps. Like I said, to me, 'love' seems like a tool that is used by people to get what they want. Use by companies to make money. Used by religion to keep society stuck in monogamy. (Which isn't that bad of a thing now that we have such an STD epidemic) Proud founder of the Myriad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 So if i said i thought love to me was attraction, acceptance and happiness you would say that love does not exist? Perhaps. Like I said, to me, 'love' seems like a tool that is used by people to get what they want. Use by companies to make money. Used by religion to keep society stuck in monogamy. (Which isn't that bad of a thing now that we have such an STD epidemic) If you doubt my own subjective love exists then your doubting attraction, happiness ect exists. Since you already told me you don't doubt they exist it's logical to assume that you don't doubt my idea of love exists. Therefore, my idea of love does exist and since love is subjective thats the best we can hope for. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Jokes Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 So if i said i thought love to me was attraction, acceptance and happiness you would say that love does not exist? Perhaps. Like I said, to me, 'love' seems like a tool that is used by people to get what they want. Use by companies to make money. Used by religion to keep society stuck in monogamy. (Which isn't that bad of a thing now that we have such an STD epidemic) If you doubt my own subjective love exists then your doubting attraction, happiness ect exists. Since you already told me you don't doubt they exist it's logical to assume that you don't doubt my idea of love exists. Therefore, my idea of love does exist and since love is subjective thats the best we can hope for. AHa! Your idea of love. But your idea of love is not what is being shoved down our throats. Proud founder of the Myriad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 That does not matter, we already established love was subjective. Whatever is being "shoved down your throat" is subjective to the person shoving it down your throat. It exists, just like my idea of love exists and like your idea of love will exist. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild_goat_14 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Satenza. I don't care what the argument is, he wins it. I shall take my flock underneath my own wing, and kick them right the [bleep] out of the tree. If they were meant to fly, they won't break their necks on the concrete.So, what is 1.111... equal to?10/9. Please don't continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Jokes Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 That does not matter, we already established love was subjective. Whatever is being "shoved down your throat" is subjective to the person shoving it down your throat. It exists, just like my idea of love exists and like your idea of love will exist. Hmm, I'd agree with you. But then we wouldn't have an idea what good and evil is. And apparently we do. Murder is evil. Rape is evil. Theft is evil. So, obviously, there is something univeral about this love thing as well. No? Proud founder of the Myriad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolgool Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Excellent post, once again. :) I do understand the friend--\>relationship thing, although there would definitely be people I'd be willing to cross the line for. The code in my sig should say 1032 not 0132. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 That does not matter, we already established love was subjective. Whatever is being "shoved down your throat" is subjective to the person shoving it down your throat. It exists, just like my idea of love exists and like your idea of love will exist. Hmm, I'd agree with you. But then we wouldn't have an idea what good and evil is. And apparently we do. Murder is evil. [assault] is evil. Theft is evil. So, obviously, there is something univeral about this love thing as well. No? I'd argue good and bad are subjective as well. If we take your theft example for instance i could ask the question "Is it right for someone to steal a peice of bread to feed his starving family". If we all had some innate absolute idea of good and bad we would all either condemn that action as bad or good. However that question has been debated over for centuries. So it's obvious we don't have an absolute stance on it. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Grim, I think you're overlooking those animals that form lifelong relationships. Scientifically (which I hate to reduce something like love down to) love could be seen as a misfiring of the brain to produce an overly strong attraction towards another female in order to form a stable relationship to propogate our genes. Sounds awful doesn't it? But of course, love is so much more than that, the wave of emotions it can produce is unparalleled. It is definitely something that we should strive for, in ourselves and others. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Jokes Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 That does not matter, we already established love was subjective. Whatever is being "shoved down your throat" is subjective to the person shoving it down your throat. It exists, just like my idea of love exists and like your idea of love will exist. Hmm, I'd agree with you. But then we wouldn't have an idea what good and evil is. And apparently we do. Murder is evil. [assault] is evil. Theft is evil. So, obviously, there is something univeral about this love thing as well. No? I'd argue good and bad are subjective as well. If we take your theft example for instance i could ask the question "Is it right for someone to steal a peice of bread to feed his starving family". If we all had some innate absolute idea of good and bad we would all either condemn that action as bad or good. However that question has been debated over for centuries. So it's obvious we don't have an absolute stance on it. We have a general idea. And theft, regardless of reason, is frowned upon, however. Meaning there is a general idea of love as well. Grim, I think you're overlooking those animals that form lifelong relationships. You know, I'll admit. I believe I am. Could you tell me some animals? Proud founder of the Myriad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Sure, chimpanzees (who actually show signs of depression when they lose a loved one), in fact most of the higher apes, prairie voles, certain species of penguins (off the top of my head, emperor penguins), elephant herds form lifelong family bonds (actually mourning their dead for several days) etc... It's not limited to our species. Indeed, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_Monogamy "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaidinWoT Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Though I can't name any specific species off the top of my head, a number of bird species will have only one partner throughout their life. Additionally, while I, like assassin, don't like taking love in scientific terms, it does have some scientific basis. Love *could* be described as your body having grown used to and taking pleasure from the chemicals/hormones released when you think about/interact with the person you love. A quote from Wikiville: Recent studies in neuroscience have indicated that a consistent number of chemicals are present in the brain when people testify to feeling love. These chemicals include; Testosterone, Oestrogen, Dopamine, Norepinephrine, Serotonin, Oxytocin, and Vasopressin. More specifically, higher levels of Testosterone and Oestrogen are present during the lustful phase of a relationship. Dopamine, Norepinephrine, and Serotonin are more commonly found during the attraction phase of a relationship. Oxytocin, and Vasopressin seemed to be more closely linked to long term bonding and relationships characterized by strong attachments. Add your blog to the BlogScape Index!SaidinWoT can now be tracked easily on weekends - Erm, maybe when I start playing again.Levels do not measure intelligence OR maturity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celeste Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I agree with the female chart in a way.. but that's not how my current relationship worked out. Yeah I was best friends for a little over a year with my current boyfriend but it wasn't because I didn't want to go into a relationship with him.. it was that I didn't know if he wanted to... so I kept shut.. well at the end of the school year, I found out that he wanted to.. (sweeeet).. we started hanging out more... and *fell in love*... :D Formly known as TheKat146.Retired in 2003 on RSC at combat level 111 <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionheart_0 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 =D> Well done post. This explains so much too me. Perhaps i am right in thinking i should just wait and find the right girl.... Sig by IkuraiYour Guide to Posting! Behave or I will send my Moose mounted Beaver launchers at you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easonadam Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 more love sciency type thing lol, thought i too don't think love should be taekn scientifically. In the begining of realationships (thought to be a year or so) the brain's judgement center is practicaly turned off just like the old saying 'everything is rosy when your in love' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Don't you ever follow your instincts? So following our instincts is "right"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkmage099 Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I sound like your example. I don't have any major flaws (that I know of). I'm not stupid. I'm not incredibly ugly. I'm not unpopular. I guess I just have no balls. :pray: Please Santa. For christmas...could ya? It'd be nice to have them before prom :pray: EDIT: I'm a sophmore so I was just kidding (I don't plan to go to pron). Can't say before homecoming because homecoming is before Christmas! Trix.--quit WoW as of 12/07Thank you 4be2jue for the wonderful sig and avatar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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