scn64 Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikithera_mechanism As I have said before the Greek and Romans were more advanced than any other people in the world up until the recent century, but this is crazy! I know theres the Coliseum, the Pyramids, the miles of roads and aqueducts running throughout Europe, but we really should not underestimate the knowledge of ancient peoples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 Apparently the Chinese empire in those years were even more advanced :-k Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialcharacter Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 The Greek were incredibly advanced for their time. Just looking at what wiki wrote about " another not available until the 18th century" thats like 800 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurinEthir Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 Apparently the Chinese empire in those years were even more advanced :-k That's why Chinese people are smart. :wink: No racism, even though it's true most of the time I forget when the abacus was invented, but it's also pretty advanced. Not to mention the Chinese were the first to use gunpowder, as well as non-papyrus paper. So basically, the ancient civilizations have given us so much. Nearly everything today has a root in the ancient world. Cenin pân nîd, istan pân nîd, dan nin ú-cenich, nin ú-istach.Ithil luin eria vi menel caran...Tîn dan delu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcap_laughs Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 This was a Modern Marvels on the History Channel back in like 2003, its pretty old news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scn64 Posted June 16, 2007 Author Share Posted June 16, 2007 The Greek were incredibly advanced for their time. Just looking at what wiki wrote about " another not available until the 18th century" thats like 800 years. I wonder where we'd be today if the world, as a whole, could have put these ancient devices and technologies to greater use/study. It seems like so many of the discoveries of the ancient world were lost, causing the world to take steps backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurinEthir Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 The Greek were incredibly advanced for their time. Just looking at what wiki wrote about " another not available until the 18th century" thats like 800 years. I wonder where we'd be today if the world, as a whole, could have put these ancient devices and technologies to greater use/study. It seems like so many of the discoveries of the ancient world were lost, causing the world to take steps backwards. I wonder where we'd be today if the library at Alexandria still existed. The destruction of it was one of the ways those technologies were lost. But at least some lasted...Imagine if the Greeks lost the Persian Wars, we wouldn't have democracy...Yep, we rely so much on people that have been dead for thousands of years. Cenin pân nîd, istan pân nîd, dan nin ú-cenich, nin ú-istach.Ithil luin eria vi menel caran...Tîn dan delu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 Apparently the Chinese empire in those years were even more advanced :-k That's why Chinese people are smart. :wink: No racism, even though it's true most of the time Since when is China so smart, have so seen the state of China? Anyway, it's more a mechanical device than a computer very good nevertheless. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Eggz Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 That's not a computer It's a wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malo2 Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Apparently the Chinese empire in those years were even more advanced :-k That's why Chinese people are smart. :wink: No racism, even though it's true most of the time Since when is China so smart, have so seen the state of China? Anyway, it's more a mechanical device than a computer very good nevertheless.since the past 6000 or so years? Lastfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Apparently the Chinese empire in those years were even more advanced :-k That's why Chinese people are smart. :wink: No racism, even though it's true most of the time Since when is China so smart, have so seen the state of China? Anyway, it's more a mechanical device than a computer very good nevertheless.since the past 6000 or so years? Have you seen the state of China? With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malo2 Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Apparently the Chinese empire in those years were even more advanced :-k That's why Chinese people are smart. :wink: No racism, even though it's true most of the time Since when is China so smart, have so seen the state of China? Anyway, it's more a mechanical device than a computer very good nevertheless.since the past 6000 or so years? Have you seen the state of China?why do you keep going back to the state of china? yes I know what state china is in, and its because of one very crappy leader. But that's completely irreverent, unless you have been sleeping under a rock your whole life you would have known that until before the industrial revolution, china was the most powerful, and the most advanced empire in the world. The fact that they were slacking and didn't industrialize their country in time, allowed the imperialistic countries pretty much take control of it for a while, setting it back very far, and allowing a bad leader to take control during the cold war. So anyway, you must have slept through all of your history classes or something, so just so you know, china was the most advanced empire in the world for the past 6000 or so years. Lastfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 You can still argue China is the most powerful country in the world on an economic level. At the exploitation of it's citizens. If China is such a intelligent country then it would never be in the state it is in now. China isn't being exploited soley because of slacking industirialization, it's only ever been prolonged by Mao and his successors. It's citizens had the chance to stand up to the regime after Mao's death, and they failed to do so instead believeing lies about Mao's innocence for the cultural revolution which affected every chinese person and resulted in seventy million deaths. They have had many chances to end their own exploitation, revolutions have happened at a lot lesser death tolls. The only thing intelligent about China as a country at the moment is it's population size and all the ways in which it can be exploitated. Im not talking about the past, im talking about now. In a argument against "Thats why Chinese people are so smart". With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurinEthir Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Clarification on my post: I was making a joke...Sort of...Haven't you ever heard the stereotype that all Chinese people are smart? (If not, then I guess where you live is a lot different than where I live.) Cenin pân nîd, istan pân nîd, dan nin ú-cenich, nin ú-istach.Ithil luin eria vi menel caran...Tîn dan delu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionheart_0 Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 That's not a computer It's a wheel "The Antikythera mechanism (Greek: O ÃÆýÃâüÃÆýÃâ÷ÃÆà Sig by IkuraiYour Guide to Posting! Behave or I will send my Moose mounted Beaver launchers at you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovelydude Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Therefore.. Computers are hundreds of millions of years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azntemplar_00 Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 You can still argue China is the most powerful country in the world on an economic level. At the exploitation of it's citizens. If China is such a intelligent country then it would never be in the state it is in now. China isn't being exploited soley because of slacking industirialization, it's only ever been prolonged by Mao and his successors. It's citizens had the chance to stand up to the regime after Mao's death, and they failed to do so instead believeing lies about Mao's innocence for the cultural revolution which affected every chinese person and resulted in seventy million deaths. They have had many chances to end their own exploitation, revolutions have happened at a lot lesser death tolls. The only thing intelligent about China as a country at the moment is it's population size and all the ways in which it can be exploitated. Im not talking about the past, im talking about now. In a argument against "Thats why Chinese people are so smart". Ok...maybe he didn't mean every single Chinese person in China. But the Chinese who happen to live in the 'west' do tend to focus more on school and such... maybe that's what Penguin is refering to? That's what my friends usually mean when they say something like that. And why all the hate on China? Every country has its faults and you can't blame an entire country now for the actions of their predecessors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Imagine if the Greeks lost the Persian Wars, we wouldn't have democracy... Well, there's a ridiculous assumption. Darius actually allowed the Ionian city-states to retain their democratic institutions even after the Ionian revolt and the burning of Sardis. Xerxes did nothing to repeal this concession. There's no reason for him to have done away with Athens and Sparta's laughable excuses for democracy. Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron8000 Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 But could it play solitaire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurinEthir Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Imagine if the Greeks lost the Persian Wars, we wouldn't have democracy... Well, there's a ridiculous assumption. Darius actually allowed the Ionian city-states to retain their democratic institutions even after the Ionian revolt and the burning of Sardis. Xerxes did nothing to repeal this concession. There's no reason for him to have done away with Athens and Sparta's laughable excuses for democracy. That's what a documentary about the battle of Thermopylae on the history channel said. Go complain to them. And yeah, Azn, I was referring to how Chinese people living in the west tend to be more concerned with school and seem smarter. Glad to know someone actually understood what I meant. : And Sparta never had a democracy when it was independent. It might have switched a while after the Peloponnesian Wars, but before, during the Persian Wars, it was an oligarchy. Five ephors and two kings. And what do YOU think is a democracy? Cenin pân nîd, istan pân nîd, dan nin ú-cenich, nin ú-istach.Ithil luin eria vi menel caran...Tîn dan delu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scn64 Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 But could it play solitaire? It must have been able to. Otherwise, I don't know how it can be considered a computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 That's what a documentary about the battle of Thermopylae on the history channel said. Go complain to them. The History Channel is a credible source? Holy hell. You learn something new everyday, even when you are, you know, a student of ancient history at university. And Sparta never had a democracy when it was independent. It might have switched a while after the Peloponnesian Wars, but before, during the Persian Wars, it was an oligarchy. Five ephors and two kings. And what do YOU think is a democracy? Ever since Lycurgus' reforms*, Sparta was essentially a democracy, with every man expected to serve on the Assembly once they could no longer serve in a martial capacity. The two kings had little actual power, most of that being purely symbolic and ceremonial, even though they were important parts of the Spartan hierarchy. In the same vein, the Ephors served in a largely religious capacity, with the greater part of legislative power residing in the Assembly. For the very large part, Spartan society was a democracy, provided that you were an actual Spartiate in the city state itself, rather than being a Helot or otherwise residing outside the city. *Although those are actually of debatable value as there is no evidence to really show that Lycurgus actually existed, rather than just being a fictional historical figure as the ancient Greeks tended to make when they wanted to justify some big change in their society or system of rule. Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurinEthir Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 That's what a documentary about the battle of Thermopylae on the history channel said. Go complain to them. The History Channel is a credible source? Holy hell. You learn something new everyday, even when you are, you know, a student of ancient history at university. I trust a few historians that are also history professors over a student. They might be wrong, but there's more of a chance of them being right. And Sparta never had a democracy when it was independent. It might have switched a while after the Peloponnesian Wars, but before, during the Persian Wars, it was an oligarchy. Five ephors and two kings. And what do YOU think is a democracy? Ever since Lycurgus' reforms*, Sparta was essentially a democracy, with every man expected to serve on the Assembly once they could no longer serve in a martial capacity. The two kings had little actual power, most of that being purely symbolic and ceremonial, even though they were important parts of the Spartan hierarchy. In the same vein, the Ephors served in a largely religious capacity, with the greater part of legislative power residing in the Assembly. For the very large part, Spartan society was a democracy, provided that you were an actual Spartiate in the city state itself, rather than being a Helot or otherwise residing outside the city. *Although those are actually of debatable value as there is no evidence to really show that Lycurgus actually existed, rather than just being a fictional historical figure as the ancient Greeks tended to make when they wanted to justify some big change in their society or system of rule. Like you said, it's debatable. But I don't want to debate it. You're probably right about Sparta being a "democracy" during Lycurgus' time, but that was the Peloponnesian Wars. We're both right, how about that? Cenin pân nîd, istan pân nîd, dan nin ú-cenich, nin ú-istach.Ithil luin eria vi menel caran...Tîn dan delu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonorhc Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I trust a few historians that are also history professors over a student. They might be wrong, but there's more of a chance of them being right. To paraphrase a number of history professors I've actually spoken to, the History Channel and other representations that are marketed to the masses are, for the large part, a load of rubbish. I'm inclined to agree with them, considering that I've actually spent a good part of the past six months reading about this subject. Like you said, it's debatable. But I don't want to debate it. You're probably right about Sparta being a "democracy" during Lycurgus' time, but that was the Peloponnesian Wars. We're both right, how about that? Not quite right. The Spartan democratic institution was actually one of the most enduring systems in the ancient world. You said it yourself, right up to the Peloponnesian Wars, the Spartans hung onto their ephors and kings. Those were part of Sparta's democratic institution. Varrock Library: Shattered Sky | Silent Thunder | The Emperor's FinestAstri @ MythWeavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurinEthir Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 To paraphrase a number of history professors I've actually spoken to, the History Channel and other representations that are marketed to the masses are, for the large part, a load of rubbish. I'm inclined to agree with them, considering that I've actually spent a good part of the past six months reading about this subject. Interesting, I've never heard that before. But those historians/history professors probably have spent more than 6 months studying the subject. But they could still be wrong and you could be right. I'm not going to bother finding out. Not quite right. The Spartan democratic institution was actually one of the most enduring systems in the ancient world. You said it yourself, right up to the Peloponnesian Wars, the Spartans hung onto their ephors and kings. Those were part of Sparta's democratic institution. So let's call that a mix between an oligarchy and a democracy. It's not entirely either one. Let's leave it at that... Cenin pân nîd, istan pân nîd, dan nin ú-cenich, nin ú-istach.Ithil luin eria vi menel caran...Tîn dan delu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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