Banning of nazi symbols

[Darkluniux]

Disclaimer:Sorry for that title, I'm not a Neo-Nazi/skinhead/KKK person, just wanted to put as title of the the thread something that can impact and surely make come 70% of the mods :P If I need to change it then I will, but when I think on a better title

 

 

 

 

 

 

The original title was uspossedly to be:

 

 

 

Germany banning the swastika and other nazi related symbols = Ignorance!

 

 

 

 

Read the whole before saying "Z0MGBBQROFLMAO NAZI n00b!!1111"

 

 

 

I saw with preocupation how the goverment of Germany banned the Swastika in that country and now tries to convince the whole European Union to ban almost all the symbols related to the nazism, but I found this completely absurd by many motives that I will expose here.

 

 

 

*The Swastika: That modified version of the greek cross that we all know, was taken by Hitler to be in the flag of the NationalSocialist German Workers party, among with the red and white colours resembling the principle of "blood and land". However, Hitler knew very well what resembles this symbol: The progress, the power of the sun's wheel going all the time ever right to the best it can be, a sacred symbol for many oriental religions like the Hinduism that made this symbol thousands of year before the existence of Germany. But, to the german goverment, this means nothing, and banned it just because they do not want that the pro-nazis use it (and these groups, have choosen to use an imperial war flag of the WWI that is totally legal he he he). At this point I would like to mention a thread made some time ago by tip.iter that is Hindu and went more deeper in the meaning of the Swastika as a holy symbol that gives good luck.

 

 

 

But, the porpouse of this thread is not to defend the Swastika, because if the Swastika weren't an important religious symbol, but just a sign made by Adolf Hitler, I would defend it anyways, because it is part of the history, and just because we do not like it it doesn't give us the right to erase it from the books or to prohibite its use.

 

 

 

I'm really tired when the goverments try to make freedom by shouting people's mouths, is innaceptable that we consider as something impacting the apparition of a t-shirt being selled in Wal-Mart for just having a skull that looks like the Totenkopf (In german "Death's head", important symbol used by the nazi SS resembling the loyalty until the death).

 

 

 

My hearth is full of wrath when I see rockers doing the horn hand salute and people say "wohooo! Heavy metal rules!", but when they see a guy doing the nazi salute, they scream "Look at that nazi idiot! Let's burn him to death and send him to hell!". The nazism is more that an ideology, it left behind a complete culture. Hitler just took an old salute made by roman soldiers and modified it a little to make it part of the third Reich.

 

 

 

Adolf Hitler was a great leader that was cursed by the humanity for doing the big mistake of being a rascist and an anti-semitist, and now he is demonised and being despited like the Anti-Christ, "just" for being the responsable of 6,000,000 people. But, when I say "just" is because there were worst people than Hitler, but the history gave them a place of glory.

 

 

 

The history is written by the victorious people but that's just completely unfair in Hitler's case, because I have seen how communist people gives the name of "STALIN" to their sons without thinking that Stalin killed even more people that Hitler and even didn't care about the destiny of his son when he was captured by the Waffen-SS. We see examples of dictators as Fidel Castro and that doesn't matter, because you can see how people keeps dressing in red clothes while holding a Sickle and a hammer, we can see how Bush and Putin are going to start a second cold war, but we donnot care about it, because the most evil is Hitler.

 

 

 

Atila the Hun is known as "the scourge of God", the Tsar Iban I is known as "the terrible" but none of these titles are bad as "Mein FÃÆÃâÃâührer".

 

 

 

Hitler had an incredible brillant mind, he liked to hear the beautiful music of Wagner, he was obsessed with the Montserrat's Saint Grial and the Longinus' spear, item that he had in his power and as how the legends say, he died the same day he lost it, as others characters that had the Holy Spear, like Carlomagne for example, or Friedich I the Red-Bearded, emperor of the Sacred German Empire.

 

He took the best he could of his country's culture, the acient pagan rites, the nordic legends and the runical magic and with those elements he made a strong nationalism resulting in people's love for their land.

 

 

But the really main porpouse of this thread is that we can't read the history with blind eyes, we can not remove important periods of time like the nazi regimen, that is how forgotting about Napoleon or Alexander the great, we just can not let our freedom to know all what trully happened because a goverment choosed to ban the swastika. We just can't let our leaders be like the acient egyptians, who just removed from the scriptures the pharaohs they didn't like, for example, Akenaton who made the first monoteist religion by removing the egyptian panteon, and putting instead the cult to the solar god ATON. Because of this, the priests erased his name from all the existing documents with the propouse that no one remembers him and his heretic cult, the next pharaoh (Tut-Ank-Amon) putted again the polyteist religion. So I refuse to say "in the period 1936-1945 happened some war was started by a crazy dictator, there wasn't holocaust or something so don't worry, but if you want to know the truth, ask permission to the goverment and then go to the ultra-secret area of the national library".

 

 

 

So what's the main problem with the nazi symbolism? There is not more Ku Klux Klan, and the actual pro-nazi groups are forgotting what a really nazi was, and thing that writting in the walls "88" followed by a swastika means that they are truthly nazis.

 

 

 

I'm not here to say "A r y a n s of the earth unite and let's make a fourth reich", no, I'm here to say "never forgot the history, remember ever its heroes and villains so we donnot commit the same errors of the past".

 

 

 

Because freedom of speech is not only to say what we want, but to know too what we want!

 

 

 

Because I'm tired of seeing some "X" instead of swastikas in games like Wolfenstein and medal of honor just because this stupid prohibition!

 

 

 

 

And because I'm 100% against the conduct that is taking germany in this moment, her eis the nazi swastika in all his glory, among with other nazi symbols:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And tip.it mods and administrators, please donnot be as the spanish Inquisition, let there be some disscussion instead of closing the thread.

 

 

 

Disscuss! (and donnot kill me, I'm not a nazi!)

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:Just removed some errors in the text! Now it is a bit more easy to read and understanding.

[Biabf]

Actually the Swastika was a Hindu symbol for something like hope or luck?

[megakiller32]

The Swastika isnt a modified version of a greek cross, its from the Hindu Religion which means good luck.

 

And whats with all the hitler topics recently?

[Darkluniux]

The Swastika isnt a modified version of a greek cross, its from the Hindu Religion which means good luck.

 

And whats with all the hitler topics recently?

 

 

 

*Ahem*, the swastika was BEFORE the greek cross, before germany and before all, quite obvious Isn't it? But I'm saying it because there are people taht donnot know the name of that symbol.

[Mazpot]

Wasn't the swastika a symbol of peace?

 

 

 

Barclays bank in the UK are also talking about ditching their eagle logo incase people thing it refers to the nazi movement

[highlanders]

Don't write donnot, write do not, it's very annoying to see that error repetively in the thread.

 

 

 

A very flammable topic this is... A spark and it's finito.

 

 

 

Well, yes, it's a little absurb Hitler has been so demonised. It's as absurd as all the talking we heard about the terrorist attacks of 9/11 while millions of peope died in Africa or other places in much more sad sittuations in that year and we barely heard of it. But that's like that, people are only interested into things that concern them and their little world. It's also absurb because nazis are hated, but people nowadays are still very intolerant towards jews. If you ask someone who hates Nazi symbols why he hates them, he'll most likely say 'Because I hate Hitler' instead of saying 'Because it was the symbol of the people who killed millions of jews'. They hate the killer, and dislike the killed. People are stupid like that.

[The Dark Lord]

It's kind of hard to understand what you're saying in a few places.

 

 

 

So basically you think it's stupid to ban the swastika because it's a Hindu symbol of peace and you're Hindu? Oh and you're saying that we shouldn't consider the most evil person in history because Stalin was worse?

[Ginger_Warrior]

I don't agree with the actions of Hitler OR Stalin, despite being an extreme left-wing radical. Stalinism wasn't Communism as Marx describes, and there is no way the NSDAP can be described as a Socilaist party.

 

 

 

Germany, perhaps understandably, is very self-conscious of its past. This however, doesn't mean they can ban the icons of an extreme-right party. Banning a political group from publishing their ideologies, simlarly to religion, is a very messy business and it's a road you don't want to go down because you get accused of being oppresive.

 

 

 

Right-wing groups should never be allowed in power so far as I'm concerned, but to take away their rights to freedom of speech is taking it too far for me...

[Darkluniux]

It's kind of hard to understand what you're saying in a few places.

 

 

 

So basically you think it's stupid to ban the swastika because it's a Hindu symbol of peace and you're Hindu? Oh and you're saying that we shouldn't consider the most evil person in history because Stalin was worse?

 

 

 

I'm just saying that Hitler was more than a "demon that ate many jews", Stalin was even worst but you do not see people screaming when listening his name.

 

 

 

I'm not Hindu, and I really wouldn't care if the swastika Isn't a sacred symbol for a religion, because it can not be banned, after all, it's prat of the history.

[Darkluniux]

I don't agree with the actions of Hitler OR Stalin, despite being an extreme left-wing radical. Stalinism wasn't Communism as Marx describes, and there is no way the NSDAP can be described as a Socilaist party.

 

 

 

Germany, perhaps understandably, is very self-conscious of its past. This however, doesn't mean they can ban the icons of an extreme-right party. Banning a political group from publishing their ideologies, simlarly to religion, is a very messy business and it's a road you don't want to go down because you get accused of being oppresive.

 

 

 

Right-wing groups should never be allowed in power so far as I'm concerned, but to take away their rights to freedom of speech is taking it too far for me...

 

 

 

And even worst if they are planning to erase them from the history!

[Darkluniux]

Don't write donnot, write do not, it's very annoying to see that error repetively in the thread.

 

 

 

A very flammable topic this is... A spark and it's finito.

 

 

 

Well, yes, it's a little absurb Hitler has been so demonised. It's as absurd as all the talking we heard about the terrorist attacks of 9/11 while millions of peope died in Africa or other places in much more sad sittuations in that year and we barely heard of it. But that's like that, people are only interested into things that concern them and their little world. It's also absurb because nazis are hated, but people nowadays are still very intolerant towards jews. If you ask someone who hates Nazi symbols why he hates them, he'll most likely say 'Because I hate Hitler' instead of saying 'Because it was the symbol of the people who killed millions of jews'. They hate the killer, and dislike the killed. People are stupid like that.

 

 

 

Thanks for your feedback, but when I say to not flam this, I reffer to people saying "lol n00b nazi go 2 h3ll", but I allow to the debate that is trully democratic and is intelligent talk.

 

 

 

By the way, thanks for telling me about the "donnot" error, I thought it wasn't an error because I have seen how many people writes it! Besides, I donnot speak english. Thanks for helping to erase these errors in my tongue.

[Zonorhc]

You can't bloody well just get rid of the symbolism. That's essentially pretending that it didn't happen.

 

 

 

We should keep the symbols of the Nazis around, if only to remind us of what can go wrong.

[swordwindtrtrtrt]

If you stopped to think for a moment then youll realise that Hitler actually killed many more people than Stalin.

 

 

 

Hitler was responsible for WW2. Hitler's invasions of neighbouring countries began the war, among other things. Not sure how many people died in that, but I believe it was 60mill+. Not only did he start a war that could easily have been avoided, he also murdered 4mill+ innocent jew's in the holocaust.

 

 

 

Stalin did kill many people, in the purges, labour camps, the liquidation of the Kulaks, etc, but not nearly as many as Hitler.

 

 

 

Hitler was responsible for the single biggest loss of human life ever.

 

 

 

Thats why swastikas are banned.

 

 

 

However there is also the need to remember, and Nazism cannot simply be forgotten and ignored.

[Kashi]

Flame me if you want, but I support Hitler 100%.

 

 

 

He just did one thing wrong. Instead of killing Jews, he should've killed every stupid person.

 

Don't kill people for their religion or their ancestry, kill them for their actions! Kill them for

 

getting behind the wheel of a car after 13 beers, or kill them for being racist, or kill them for

 

smoking cigarettes through a hole in their neck after they had to have half their throat

 

removed. Just don't kill them for their race.

[Ginger_Warrior]

If you stopped to think for a moment then youll realise that Hitler actually killed many more people than Stalin.

 

 

 

Hitler was responsible for WW2. Hitler's invasions of neighbouring countries began the war, among other things. Not sure how many people died in that, but I believe it was 60mill+. Not only did he start a war that could easily have been avoided, he also murdered 4mill+ innocent jew's in the holocaust.

 

 

 

Stalin did kill many people, in the purges, labour camps, the liquidation of the Kulaks, etc, but not nearly as many as Hitler.

 

 

 

Hitler was responsible for the single biggest loss of human life ever.

 

 

 

Thats why swastikas are banned.

 

 

 

However there is also the need to remember, and Nazism cannot simply be forgotten and ignored.

 

 

 

Trust me, there's not one historian in the world that denies Stalin was responsible for the killing of more people than Hitler...

[swordwindtrtrtrt]

Flame me if you want, but I support Hitler 100%.

 

 

 

He just did one thing wrong. Instead of killing Jews, he should've killed every stupid person.

 

Don't kill people for their religion or their ancestry, kill them for their actions! Kill them for

 

getting behind the wheel of a car after 13 beers, or kill them for being racist, or kill them for

 

smoking cigarettes through a hole in their neck after they had to have half their throat

 

removed. Just don't kill them for their race.

You support him 100% but dont condone the holocaust? He killed a lot of other innocent people too you know.

[Darkluniux]

If you stopped to think for a moment then youll realise that Hitler actually killed many more people than Stalin.

 

 

 

Hitler was responsible for WW2. Hitler's invasions of neighbouring countries began the war, among other things. Not sure how many people died in that, but I believe it was 60mill+. Not only did he start a war that could easily have been avoided, he also murdered 4mill+ innocent jew's in the holocaust.

 

 

 

Stalin did kill many people, in the purges, labour camps, the liquidation of the Kulaks, etc, but not nearly as many as Hitler.

 

 

 

Hitler was responsible for the single biggest loss of human life ever.

 

 

 

Thats why swastikas are banned.

 

 

 

However there is also the need to remember, and Nazism cannot simply be forgotten and ignored.

 

 

 

Trust me, there's not one historian in the world that denies Stalin was responsible for the killing of more people than Hitler...

 

 

 

 

 

Then I'm by the good path lol. I want to be Historian and Engineer in Systems and communications ( A 1337 Haxx0rz that knows history).

[swordwindtrtrtrt]

If you stopped to think for a moment then youll realise that Hitler actually killed many more people than Stalin.

 

 

 

Hitler was responsible for WW2. Hitler's invasions of neighbouring countries began the war, among other things. Not sure how many people died in that, but I believe it was 60mill+. Not only did he start a war that could easily have been avoided, he also murdered 4mill+ innocent jew's in the holocaust.

 

 

 

Stalin did kill many people, in the purges, labour camps, the liquidation of the Kulaks, etc, but not nearly as many as Hitler.

 

 

 

Hitler was responsible for the single biggest loss of human life ever.

 

 

 

Thats why swastikas are banned.

 

 

 

However there is also the need to remember, and Nazism cannot simply be forgotten and ignored.

 

 

 

Trust me, there's not one historian in the world that denies Stalin was responsible for the killing of more people than Hitler...

Stalin was responsible for only 20million deaths. While Hitler was responsible for 42million.

[Kashi]

You support him 100% but dont condone the holocaust? He killed a lot of other innocent people too you know.

 

 

 

There is no such thing as an innocent person. Anything that

 

reduces the population of the human race is a good thing.

 

 

 

Maybe I'm just being umm .. is vindictive the right word here?

 

 

 

I hate humans! Humans killed my father, and raped my mother!

[Laikrob]

Flame me if you want, but I support Hitler 100%.

 

 

 

He just did one thing wrong. Instead of killing Jews, he should've killed every stupid person.

 

Don't kill people for their religion or their ancestry, kill them for their actions! Kill them for

 

getting behind the wheel of a car after 13 beers, or kill them for being racist, or kill them for

 

smoking cigarettes through a hole in their neck after they had to have half their throat

 

removed. Just don't kill them for their race.

 

 

 

I'd like to reply with a poem by Pastor Martin NiemÃÆÃâÃâöller (1892ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ1984):

 

 

 

First they came...

 

 

 

First they came for the Communists, and I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t speak up,

 

because I wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t a Communist.

 

 

 

Then they came for the sick, the so-called incurables, and I didn't speak up,

 

because I wasn't mentally ill.

 

 

 

Then they came for the Jews, and I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t speak up,

 

because I wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t a Jew.

 

 

 

Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left

 

to speak up for me.

 

 

 

 

 

This poem exist in different versions.

[Kashi]

 

I'd like to reply with a poem by Pastor Martin NiemÃÆÃâÃâöller (1892ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ1984):

 

 

 

First they came...

 

 

 

First they came for the Communists, and I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t speak up,

 

because I wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t a Communist.

 

 

 

Then they came for the sick, the so-called incurables, and I didn't speak up,

 

because I wasn't mentally ill.

 

 

 

Then they came for the Jews, and I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t speak up,

 

because I wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t a Jew.

 

 

 

Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left

 

to speak up for me.

 

 

 

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your meaning. :(

 

 

 

That's a beautiful poem, though.

[Darkluniux]

Flame me if you want, but I support Hitler 100%.

 

 

 

He just did one thing wrong. Instead of killing Jews, he should've killed every stupid person.

 

Don't kill people for their religion or their ancestry, kill them for their actions! Kill them for

 

getting behind the wheel of a car after 13 beers, or kill them for being racist, or kill them for

 

smoking cigarettes through a hole in their neck after they had to have half their throat

 

removed. Just don't kill them for their race.

 

 

 

I'd like to reply with a poem by Pastor Martin NiemÃÆÃâÃâöller (1892ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ1984):

 

 

 

First they came...

 

 

 

First they came for the Communists, and I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t speak up,

 

because I wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t a Communist.

 

 

 

Then they came for the sick, the so-called incurables, and I didn't speak up,

 

because I wasn't mentally ill.

 

 

 

Then they came for the Jews, and I didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t speak up,

 

because I wasnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t a Jew.

 

 

 

Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left

 

to speak up for me.

 

 

 

 

 

This poem exist in different versions.

 

 

 

Thanks for it, I have read that poem before, but I didn't know who was the writter.

 

 

 

But basically, is that poem referring to the fact that we must help and defend ourselves or else, when the time to be us the judged we will not have anyone speaking for us? Or is the poem talking about we can not judge others because in the same way we will judged?

[Laikrob]

A good thing with poetry, is that it can mean so many different things to many people.

 

 

 

I just think it's something to think about, personally I find it scary that some people so easily think they can decide who is worthy of life and who isn't. All of us have or will once or more likely several times in our lives, make a wrong decision.

[Darkluniux]

A good thing with poetry, is that it can mean so many different things to many people.

 

 

 

I just think it's something to think about, personally I find it scary that some people so easily think they can decide who is worthy of life and who isn't. All of us have or will once or more likely several times in our lives, make a wrong decision.

 

 

 

And the worst part of this, is when the victims transforms in the executioners.

 

 

 

It is like the proccess of making an Utopia, a perfect world without errors, how do you know who deserves the life and who not? Faces we see, hearths not.

[Kashi]

No, no, I understand the poem itself. I mean I don't understand what you're trying to say

 

by applying it to my quote.

 

 

 

EDIT: But surely, Laikrob, you cannot think that a person who gets cirrhosis from years of

 

alcoholism, gets a liver transplant, and then goes and ruins that one with excessive drinking too,

 

surely you cannot think that person has a right to live.

 

 

 

If there were two choices for a liver transplant, and a hospital could only take one, I'd choose

 

a 90 year old who never drank over a 30 year old on his second liver.