Tip.It Times Presents: Letters to the Editor 24 June 2007

[Unleasher10]

Wow. Malo2, I must say that in the real world people DO go out and DO get drunk, go to a club/bar/party. This happens in the real world, nearly everyone does it. Maybe you are not of age yet so I guess you wouldn't understand - that's why I must explain these things.

 

So, just because lots of people macro or scam or get drunk does that make us suddenly free of all blame for doing it? No.

 

 

 

That's ridiculous. To use a very common stereotype: a woman get's mugged on the street, loses her purse. Guess it was her fault for going out for groceries that day tsk tsk, of course that naughty burgler shouldn't have stolen, but why did SHE go out? Should make better choices..

 

No, because nobody is advising us against going out shopping for groceries, and the woman had no way to know the was at risk of losing her purse. On the other hand, people are advised by just about everybody not to get drunk, if you choose not to listen it's your problem.

 

 

 

I feel very strongly about the fact that rape is a very violent act, that should by no means be blamed on the victim. Runescape is very different from an offence punishible by law. It's a horrible act, and to see even a hint of you defending a rapist Malo, makes me feel like vomiting a little.

 

Nobody's defending the rapist. However, you're defending the woman, and that 'makes me feel like vomiting a little', especially when the woman also deserves blame imo.

 

 

 

First off, I am very respectful of you willing to present such painful memories to share with us -- I can't imagine how terrible it must be -- so we may have some background to draw conclusions from.

 

I think that was just an example, not, ya know... XD

[estarayella]

actually unleasher, it has happened to me, its not just an example. and getting drunk, as in so drunk you cant walk, then yes, but after 1 drink our reactions are impaired, hence why that is the drink drive limit in the uk. do you think that she was asking for it if she only had 1 drink? because that could have been enough to stop her getting away.

 

 

 

also i fail to see how defending the victim of a crime "makes you vomit a little", are you really that unfeeling?

[berbatovsky]

i am quite frankly appalled at the letters this week.

 

 

 

yes stupidity is a factor occaisionally, but so is ignorance and forgetfulness. sometimes you simply forget to check the second trade screen, no ones perfect, but according to those letters the victims are to blame because they forgot? because they are only human? if a newbie honestly doesnt know how you get trimmed armour and falls for the trimming scam, its their fault for not checking up on fansites( which i may remind you jagex warns us against because of viruses keyloggers etc)?

 

 

 

i cannot believe that anyone would ever say that a girl who got raped was to blame for being drunk while out clubbing. yes she was stupid to get that drunk, and ignorant to believe it wouldnt happen to her, but that doesn't give the scumbag who rapes her any justification for doing it.

 

 

 

yes, its an extreme example, but its true. just becase someone rushes through a trade doesnt mean they are to blame for being scammed, the only person you should be blaming is the creep who is scamming in the first place! should we allow criminals to run riot in the real world simply because the victim didnt know they could get murdered in that part of town?? i dont think so.

 

 

 

i know people will respond to this and say that the real world has nothing to do with runescape, but all i have to say to them is this..... why leave your morals behind on a game? the people on the game are real people too, just because you cant see them doesnt make that any less true, think about that.

 

 

 

 

 

off topic:Actually a lot of women (i.e:nearly all*) who claim to have been 'date raped' have in actual fact not had their drinks [bleep]ed, they just drink waaaaaaaaaay too much and forget what happened, or worse remember and get embarrased so they file false rape charges. :)

 

 

 

on topic:I know far too many people have pmed me telling me they've been scammed, lured etc.. and tbh 99.9% of the time its because they got greedy, the funny thing is a lot of these people continue to get scammed, because they arent clever enough to learn there lesson.

 

 

 

 

 

*based on a series of news reports i saw recently on English terrestrial television.

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:after seeing some posts i hadnt read - women should not drink at all, they have a lower percentage of water in their bodies, they have smaller livers, in short the cannot process alchohol the way men can, women get way messier than men when they drink in my experience.

[estarayella]

berbatovsky, that may be true, i dont know about the date rape statistics, in my case that wasnt true, although it wouldnt suprise me, however i wasnt talking about date rape, just rape in general.

 

 

 

regardless of this fact, i agree with you, many people who say they have been scammed are actually beggers, and trying to find the difference between the two is ridiculously hard.

[Blaze_9555]

NO.1: Malo, a good debate should contain no personal attacks on the opponents. The crack pipe reference has to stop. It is ruining everyone's view on your character and that view will influence their decision as to who to agree with.

 

 

 

NO.2: Estaryella and Malo, you two are the extremes of each side of the argument. While this is all good entertainment for me, it is still a serious issue. Whether you agree that it was the scammer's or the scammed's fault, you have to look past your argument and listen to the key factors in your opponents argument. You hav to find commom ground before this thing gets out of hand and spreads a rift between runescape players.

 

 

 

NO:3: If a girl decides to get dressed up for the purpose of attracting mates (which is the reason they do it whether they realize it or not) and goes to a club and gets drunk, anything harmful that happens to her is PARTLY the fault of her ignorance or her stupidity. her ignorance in that she does not often go out to clubs and is unaware of the dangers of alchohol. Her stupidity in knowing beforehand the dangers, hearing the stories and lacking the foresight that the night is full of danger. BUT, her ignorance/stupidity is not solely to blame, as for someone to get hurt, someone has to do the hurting. A player in runescape must have the foresight to not believe that Gielinor is a utopia in which nothing bad ever happens. It is made by humans and based on real life to an extent. A player should be aware of the dangers of Runescape as they would be in RL. Unfortunately, ignorance is not the one running rampant in society, its stupidity. There are many ways to learn to avoid danger but you can only be protected is you want to. If you don't make the effort to avoid danger, then you only serve in increasing danger.

 

 

 

NO.4: even though stupidity thrives in society, there are also the people that know stupidity thrives. Taking advantage of stupidity/ignorance is what scammers do. While the stupid/ignorant people of the world revel in their foolishness often, it is not their choice to be scammed. Everything in life is determined by choice. If a scammer decides to play his tricks on some UM (unsuspecting mug), the UM has the duty to protect themself. but if they can't protect themselves because of their ignorance/stupidity, it is STILL the choice of the scammer to take advantage of people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically, if you want to put blame on someone, blame the stupid person AND the scammer. (the ignoramuses out there carry almost no blame)

 

 

 

and now, the question that's gonna make those fingers type in anger...

 

 

 

 

 

What's wrong with taking advantage of people/animals/things? It's completely natural in this world, so why would anything natural be wrong?

[estarayella]

blaze, i have to commend you, i know i can be very..... myopic or short sighted about this things, my personal experiences make me very unforgiving, and i find it hard to see stuff like this from the other side.

 

 

 

in response to your question about taking advantage of others, all i can say is personally i find it wrong. there are degrees to this however. if you are faster than someone, do i think you should not try to win the race? no, i think you should use the advantage you have, with a few exceptions ( such as a teacher coming second for a race to encourage their student)

 

 

 

however, using your intellegence to decieve others, or your experiences in game to decieve, as you do in scamming are completely morally wrong as far as i am concerned.

 

 

 

(here i go with another extreme example) you know the driver of the car coming round the corner will swerve to hit any dogs in the road. you lead a dog into the road. the driver swerves and hits the dog. the dog dies.

 

 

 

you used your "intellegence" to engineer the death of the dog. does that mean there was nothing wrong with you killing the dog? again, in my opinion only, that is completely morally wrong. other people may differ on this.

 

 

 

i think morals make a person who they are, and while i know that a utopia does not exist, i do believe that the world we live in, and the worlds we have online, can be better places, if people decide not to decieve others, and instead think a little more about other people

[estarayella]

in response to berbatovsky why should i not drink, simply because chance made me female? because i cant drink as much as a man before getting drunk??? well, sorry, but i cant eat as much as a man before i get sick, does that mean i shouldnt eat either???

 

 

 

in my eyes, NO. it just means i need to be more aware of my limits, and know that i drink less than a man, and i eat less than a man, not that i shouldnt eat or drink at all

[Blaze_9555]

NO.1: berbatovsky, you just got owned.

 

 

 

NO.2: I thought people only take advantage of others to better themselves. What good comes from throwing a dog in the road(unless it's yours and it has dog insurance or something)? Morals don't make a person what they are. Society and the choices that people think are available to them makes a person. You can't say that a scammer has no morals. you don't know the scammer. i can't think of a good reason why a scammer would have to scam or why a rapist would have to rape(unless threatened with death), but that doesn't mean a criminal is heartless.

[primadog]

Blaze, wonderful writing on your 1st post! Very good summary of the discussion and the different viewpoitns currently available.

 

 

 

However, I will recommend you to make yourself an example for the rest of us by refrain from personal attacks as well (your second post).

[littlejohnnyboy]

Wow. Malo2, I must say that in the real world people DO go out and DO get drunk, go to a club/bar/party. This happens in the real world, nearly everyone does it. Maybe you are not of age yet so I guess you wouldn't understand - that's why I must explain these things.

 

So, just because lots of people macro or scam or get drunk does that make us suddenly free of all blame for doing it? No.

 

 

 

Maybe lots of people do macro or scam, but it is ILLEGAL (Within the context of the game when done in-game). Drinking is LEGAL, and is just a recreational social activity people take part in. There is no comparison.

 

 

 

That's ridiculous. To use a very common stereotype: a woman get's mugged on the street, loses her purse. Guess it was her fault for going out for groceries that day tsk tsk, of course that naughty burgler shouldn't have stolen, but why did SHE go out? Should make better choices..

 

No, because nobody is advising us against going out shopping for groceries, and the woman had no way to know the was at risk of losing her purse. On the other hand, people are advised by just about everybody not to get drunk, if you choose not to listen it's your problem.

 

 

 

Lol, you've never been told not to go out to get groceries? I have been... "Don't go walkin down the street to the kmart, you get robbed fool!!!"

 

 

 

I feel very strongly about the fact that rape is a very violent act, that should by no means be blamed on the victim. Runescape is very different from an offence punishible by law. It's a horrible act, and to see even a hint of you defending a rapist Malo, makes me feel like vomiting a little.

 

Nobody's defending the rapist. However, you're defending the woman, and that 'makes me feel like vomiting a little', especially when the woman also deserves blame imo.

 

 

 

Malo2 was defending a rapist by stating that it was NOT ALL HIS FAULT! That's what someone defending a person would sound like is it not? And on the topic of you being DISGUSTED with me not blaming the woman a little, your values are much different from mine sir.

[estarayella]

blaze again you make a very good point, but, im still going to go with the scammer is as heartless as the person luring the dog. why else would you break the rules for so little gain? some people find amusement in luring that dog, that is what they gain from it, its a small fleeting thing, just like the scammer get the gold or items. to a serial scammer, your full rune that you wanted trimmed ( insert item/gold here) is worth nothing to them, because they scam lots of people everyday, they may end up with hundreds of sets of rune.

 

 

 

as to your comment "Society and the choices that people think are available to them makes a person." well yes to a point, society often gives us these choices, but at the end if the day, we make them on what we see as right and wrong (our morals). the man could rape her, or he could not rape her. he doesnt have the morals that say "rape is bad" so he rapes her. yes it is the eventual choice that makes him do it, but it is his morals that decide which path he takes.

 

 

 

however, in real life, i believe there may be an exception to my belief that criminals are heartless. the man who robs a bank because his family are starving...... the man who murders the person threatening his wife. yes these things are still wrong, but they are done for the right reasons. these people arent heartless, they are desperate. unfortunately, what with runescape items and gold being pixels, being that desperate about it is completely unnecessary, it is at the end of the day just a game, not a case of life or death.

[estarayella]

johnny ~ you say "Maybe lots of people do macro or scam, but it is ILLEGAL (Within the context of the game when done in-game)." again completely true, but for some reason not enough of a reason for some of the players here, i simply dont understand it personally.

[Blaze_9555]

Blaze, wonderful writing on your 1st post! Very good summary of the discussion and the different viewpoitns currently available.

 

 

 

However, I will recommend you to make yourself an example for the rest of us by refrain from personal attacks as well (your second post).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i should have noticed that.. #-o

 

 

 

 

 

sorry berbatovsky

[Blaze_9555]

some people find amusement in luring that dog, that is what they gain from it, its a small fleeting thing, just like the scammer get the gold or items. to a serial scammer, your full rune that you wanted trimmed ( insert item/gold here) is worth nothing to them, because they scam lots of people everyday, they may end up with hundreds of sets of rune.

 

 

 

 

 

NO.1: a person can have many morals. They might either just have (what you consider) bad morals, or they might just have (what you consider) good morals and chose not to listen to them. It's all a matter of choice which brings me back to my point. A scammer CHOOSES to take advantage of stupid people that CHOOSE not to take heed to the warnings that they are given.

 

 

 

NO.2: in reference to your statement that I quoted above, if you really believe that luring a dog or scamming someone is a "small, fleeting thing", then why would you try to compare that to rape?

 

 

 

I apologize for not stating this earlier, but when a person is scammed in a computer game, if the person is stupid, then the blame falls equally on the scammer and the scammed(if the person is stupid). I doubt that anyone can tell that they are about to be raped until maybe a minute before the event occurs. It is not a good idea to compare being scammed (a small fleeting thing that you can recover from quickly), to being raped (which has long-term effects on a person's mental, emotional, and sometimes phyiscal status). Rape is not a small, fleeting thing and neither animal cruelty. Rape is only avoidable in certain circumstances(should've said that earlier). A dog, as far as we know, isn't aware that it is being lured to it's death. BUT, in a game that has updates every week, messages about being scammed, easily accessible sites that are about said game, and EASILY ACCESSIBLE RULES about being scammed on said game's own site, then it is NOT an ignorant, unaware, person that gets scammed in said game often. It is the stupid, obnoxious, blind person that believes that the world is black and white and that they're on the lighter side that is scammed.

 

 

 

What I am trying to say is, Tolerate ignorance, condemn stupidity, and stop those that take advantage of the two groups.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, when is Malo going to respond? I want some input from him/her. It'll make this thing more interesting.

[Unleasher10]

Maybe lots of people do macro or scam, but it is ILLEGAL (Within the context of the game when done in-game). Drinking is LEGAL, and is just a recreational social activity people take part in. There is no comparison.

 

Okay, have it your way: Just because lots of people get drunk or smoke or abuse animals or pump CO2 into the atmosphere, does that make it right? All of those are legal in lots of countries.

 

 

 

Lol, you've never been told not to go out to get groceries? I have been... "Don't go walkin down the street to the kmart, you get robbed fool!!!"

 

XD, you've had a funny life. But if somebody's told you not to, guess you shouldn't.

 

 

 

Malo2 was defending a rapist by stating that it was NOT ALL HIS FAULT! That's what someone defending a person would sound like is it not? And on the topic of you being DISGUSTED with me not blaming the woman a little, your values are much different from mine sir.

 

Well, it isn't all his fault if the raped person was somehow stupid or ignorant to cause it. I'm not disgusted, I'm just using the same term as in "It's a horrible act, and to see even a hint of you defending a rapist Malo, makes me feel like vomiting a little. "

 

 

 

I think in the end it just boils down to the fact that you can believe whatever the heck you want to, and I can't force anyone to share my view. No use in arguing/flaming/debating/discussing it really, it's like me trying to convince you that chocolate is better than vanilla and vice-versa.

[estarayella]

blaze, just to clarify ~ "if you really believe that luring a dog or scamming someone is a "small, fleeting thing", then why would you try to compare that to rape? " i dont believe that, but to the scammer, who scamms hundreds of sets of full rune, your one set is completely insignificant. to the person luring the dog, what they have done is not a big deal, they find it amusing, but to the dog, its a pretty big deal, bing as how it lost its life. ditto the girl who was raped. to the rapist, actually i dont know why rapists do it, i will never understand them, but i believe that its not a big deal to them, whereas to the girl, its life changing,(does that make more sense?).

 

 

 

other than that Blaze, nice points, although i would say that i believe i use my morals to make my choices, and try not to ignore them, but i guess thats a different for everyone and not everyone sees that like i do.

 

 

 

Unleasher~ "Well, it isn't all his fault if the raped person was somehow stupid or ignorant to cause it." i hope you never ever go into law, because its that kind of thinking that allows criminals to get off with ridiculously small sentances, or even without custodial time, and allows them to stay free in this world.

 

 

 

there was a story in the news just this week. a year old girl got raped twice in a park. the man admitted doing it. but because it turns out that UNDER her everyday clothes she wore frilly underwear and "looked 16" the man got 4 months. he could be out in 2. how can you even say that the 10 yea old was stupid enough to cause that?? was she so ignorant that she didnt realize that some strange man would come up rip off her clothes and rape her?? was she stupid for wearing underwear that was UNDER her clothes??? perhaps, but lets face it, he was the criminal, he should not of one it, and if he wasnt there, it wouldnt have mattered what she wore. she created the circumstance of being in the park, but he raped her, and he is the one who should take the blame. (in case anyone is interested, that judge is being asked to leave the practice of law)

[Unleasher10]

there was a story in the news just this week. a year old girl got raped twice in a park. the man admitted doing it. but because it turns out that UNDER her everyday clothes she wore frilly underwear and "looked 16" the man got 4 months. he could be out in 2. how can you even say that the 10 yea old was stupid enough to cause that?? was she so ignorant that she didnt realize that some strange man would come up rip off her clothes and rape her?? was she stupid for wearing underwear that was UNDER her clothes??? perhaps, but lets face it, he was the criminal, he should not of one it, and if he wasnt there, it wouldnt have mattered what she wore. she created the circumstance of being in the park, but he raped her, and he is the one who should take the blame. (in case anyone is interested, that judge is being asked to leave the practice of law)

 

And? I never said that that was right, I never even knew about it because I don't live anywhere near wherever you do. I think in that case the rapist is completely 100% to blame, because unless she was walking around in the park with her underwear somehow visible she did nothing to cause it.

 

And don't worry, I'm not planning a career in law.

[Anthony8150]

It doesn't feel like I've gained anything by reading these articles, like I did from the previous ones. :-k

[frogbercm]

yup posting in this bad thing ok this should be seperate than tip it times

 

 

 

its scamming because thay changed from what thay were going to put so you accepted cuz it says 2m not 200k

 

then thay switch it

[estarayella]

frogbercm~"its scamming because thay changed from what thay were going to put so you accepted cuz it says 2m not 200k

 

then thay switch it"

 

 

 

theres so many other ways to scam people... passing of red boots and gloves as dragon, telling people to pick nettles with no gloves on, getting them killed by poison on karamja, offering to charge glories/trim armour then running off with it, to name but a few.

[blazeblaze]

what i get out of this is its OK to pick on the stupid if your smart.

 

thers a word for that evil. :shame: :shame: :shame:

[blazeblaze]

what i get out of this is its OK to pick on the stupid if your smart.

 

thers a word for that its evil

[Unleasher10]

what i get out of this is its OK to pick on the stupid if your smart.

 

thers a word for that its evil

 

Wow, it would be nice if people actually read the arguments before flaming people and calling them evil. Nobody says it's OK to pick on the stupid, we're saying that it's not fine to only blame the perp if you're own stupidity partly or completely caused something, and that you don't deserve sympathy for something you do to yourself because of being stupid or ignorant.

 

 

 

It doesn't feel like I've gained anything by reading these articles, like I did from the previous ones.

 

It doesn't feel like I've gained anything by reading that post either :P

[Anthony8150]

 

It doesn't feel like I've gained anything by reading these articles, like I did from the previous ones.

 

It doesn't feel like I've gained anything by reading that post either :P

 

And I'm glad. Because my input wasn't suppose to.

[Blaze_9555]

It doesn't feel like I've gained anything by reading these articles, like I did from the previous ones. :-k

 

 

 

 

 

you've gained the inspiration to post a comment about how you gained nothing from reading the articles.