Tip.It Times Presents: Letters to the Editor 24 June 2007

[MPM]

Have a comment about the Letters to the Editor this week? Discuss it here.

[xavier_mo_mo]

Did You Know...

 

...that you can replace lost abyss pouches via the fairy ring abyss area - no skulling, no multi-combat, no PK risk, and Abyss demons here are not hostile to low levels.

 

 

 

No I didn't actully know that, thanks!

[Bobbington]

To be honest with you, I find these letters in fairly bad taste, they seem to be written in the view that it's all the victims fault.

 

 

 

Of course the victim has been given every opertunity to know better, but at the end of the day we and jagex should be working to remove the scammers from the game. Jagex should make updates to make the game safer for everybody.

 

 

 

Why dont people rant about the existance of the second trade screen? Well basically because everybody can almost fall for a scam nomater who you are.... ocassionaly although rare, even the most experianced of players could get caught out.

 

 

 

Of course a large amount of responsibility lies with the victim, but I appreciate features in the game that are there to prevent this.

 

 

 

I find it annoying that so many people belive it's only the victim to blame. Yes some scammers have alot of skill, and yes I can understand a certain level of "wow they figured that out well" but this should never be misread as respect!

 

 

 

Respect should only given to those who deserve it, respect the people who find ways to stop scams, not those who cause them!

[Thus]

w00t another batch of letters!!

[malo2]

I agree with both letters. If you've been scammed, it's likely because you were being stupid, and you did nothing but encourage the scammers to scam more. If you got scammed then it's really your fault because jagex filled the game with more than enough warnings, and there's no excuse for being scammed.

 

 

 

If you do get scammed you are just making it worse for everyone else because the more people get scammed, the more scammers are ther t o do the scamming.

[atestarossa]

about the not have a second trade screen.... that one is not good anyway.. as you can click, in something that is a good deal.. but the scammer changes the item, or one of them, right before you click... you're needing hell'a good reflexes to press decline before the scammer has accepted... thank god for second trade screen

[Wachtwoord]

I never realised being scammed is/was such a heated topic. I though the hype about it died out actually, but even now there are immediately people replying. I think this is getting a little old, I've heard all the arguments of both sides at least 3 times now. Let's drop it, both have strong arguments and it's not like this going to convince someone or help solve the problem.

[Celestrana]

I'll admit I've been a victim of a few minor item scams, especially when I'm selling stuff to players. I think I was selling a rune scimitar that I picked up while Fire Bolting Mummies in the "Desert Treasure" Pyramid -- I was attempting to get a second Ancient Staff.

 

 

 

So, I was on a free world in Varrok trying to sell the rune scimitar for a reasonable price of 30K gp. After about 10 to 15 minutes of typing my sell offer, somebody comes up to me to buy it. So first, the person throws in 30K and I go to click accept. Next, the buyer puts on a bunch of junk like bronze pick, bronze axe, two ruby amulets and some other stuff but that's not important. Finally, the buyer clicks Accept, the second trade screen shows up, and in my impatience, I click Accept without double-checking the trade confirmation screen. When I realized my mistake, I was too late to fix it and the buyer says "Ty" and runs off, meanwhile I lost around 15K to 20K on profit from the rune scimitar. So I swear off some vulgarities in my room (NOT in-game!), let out a big sigh (both in my room and in-game) and go on with my skilling, knowing that it was a minor set back. :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

 

 

This goes to show not only do new players have to watch out for scams, everybody has to watch out and be aware of scams.

[Skolden]

The people that get scammed even through the second trade window are either madly clicking accept and not looking at the trade screen, or they are thinking that the trade window is timed and want to get through it to fast. If you just take the time to check over everything, it is near impossible to get scammed by trading.

[darkpoet837]

I have only been scammed once. And it was the 4 looks like a k scam. Why did i press except? greed. I thought i was getting 1.2m, or 1200k, so i pressed except really fast in the second window, and then i learned. That is the reason i agree with both letters. Even though the scammer had the intent to scam me, i was moved by greed to take the hook, line, and sinker. So they are rite. Even if it is not always the case, the scam is not always totaly the fault of the scammer. Back to what i first said. I have only been scammed once. Why? Because that first scam let me put my greed in check, and now i always check the second trade screen. always.

 

 

 

And anouther thing, after i was scammed, i did not quit RS for a week or start begging for stuff in a bank. I got rite back to work, and made up the 500k that i had lost. Nomater how much you lose, if you can get that high amount once, you can do it again.

 

:)

[jimjimson]

Lol, I thought the whole letter to the editor thing was gonna be the editor responds back.

[estarayella]

i am quite frankly appalled at the letters this week.

 

 

 

yes stupidity is a factor occaisionally, but so is ignorance and forgetfulness. sometimes you simply forget to check the second trade screen, no ones perfect, but according to those letters the victims are to blame because they forgot? because they are only human? if a newbie honestly doesnt know how you get trimmed armour and falls for the trimming scam, its their fault for not checking up on fansites( which i may remind you jagex warns us against because of viruses keyloggers etc)?

 

 

 

i cannot believe that anyone would ever say that a girl who got raped was to blame for being drunk while out clubbing. yes she was stupid to get that drunk, and ignorant to believe it wouldnt happen to her, but that doesn't give the scumbag who rapes her any justification for doing it.

 

 

 

yes, its an extreme example, but its true. just becase someone rushes through a trade doesnt mean they are to blame for being scammed, the only person you should be blaming is the creep who is scamming in the first place! should we allow criminals to run riot in the real world simply because the victim didnt know they could get murdered in that part of town?? i dont think so.

 

 

 

i know people will respond to this and say that the real world has nothing to do with runescape, but all i have to say to them is this..... why leave your morals behind on a game? the people on the game are real people too, just because you cant see them doesnt make that any less true, think about that.

[primadog]

I feel quite honored to see a well-written criticism to my plea and feel respect to the author for able to explain his point-of-view without resort to personal attacks. As a previous post mentioned, it seems like both side have strong arguments for them, and it's rather futile to try to convince each other of which opinion is superior.

 

 

 

That's not to say the arguments are wasted writing -- It's the undecided readers that him and I were trying to reach.

[mmachine]

The Letters of the Week are kind of confusing, since all of them have the same title. Maybe add a number after each one?

[Gazzy]

Meh :| I kinda prefer the tip it times to this, but if the editor did reply, it would be better.....

[malo2]

i am quite frankly appalled at the letters this week.

 

 

 

yes stupidity is a factor occaisionally, but so is ignorance and forgetfulness. sometimes you simply forget to check the second trade screen, no ones perfect, but according to those letters the victims are to blame because they forgot? because they are only human? if a newbie honestly doesnt know how you get trimmed armour and falls for the trimming scam, its their fault for not checking up on fansites( which i may remind you jagex warns us against because of viruses keyloggers etc)?

were not talking about lvl 3's fresh off the island, were talking about players who should by now have some common sence and not fall for something so obvious. Also, how do you forget to check the 2nd trade screen when it's right infront of you? You would have to have a serious mental disorder to keep forgetting about something thats infront of you.

 

 

 

i cannot believe that anyone would ever say that a girl who got raped was to blame for being drunk while out clubbing. yes she was stupid to get that drunk, and ignorant to believe it wouldnt happen to her, but that doesn't give the scumbag who rapes her any justification for doing it.

I think that alot of people can agree that it is the girls fault. Obviously I'm not saying that the rapists take no blame, but someone of that stupidity would take a good portion of the blame.

 

 

 

yes, its an extreme example, but its true. just becase someone rushes through a trade doesnt mean they are to blame for being scammed, the only person you should be blaming is the creep who is scamming in the first place! should we allow criminals to run riot in the real world simply because the victim didnt know they could get murdered in that part of town?? i dont think so.

if you rush through a trade screen then it is your fault, why would you expect sympathy from anyone for being so stupid and having something so avoidable happen to you? and maybe if people weren't stupid enough to get scammed in the first place then there would be no creeps there to do the scamming. Also that analogy was horrible.

 

 

 

i know people will respond to this and say that the real world has nothing to do with runescape, but all i have to say to them is this..... why leave your morals behind on a game? the people on the game are real people too, just because you cant see them doesnt make that any less true, think about that.

No I'm not going to respond that way, and you really should lay off the crack pipe.

 

 

 

Anyway, i have no sympathy for those who get scammed unless they just started playing yesterday. getting scammed is something extremely avoidable, and if you actually walk into the wilderness thinking you will get a great deal, then you should just quit playing runescape. The people that get scammed do nothing but encourage more scammers, and deserve no sympathy what so ever for their completely stupid actions.

 

 

 

 

 

The Letters of the Week are kind of confusing, since all of them have the same title. Maybe add a number after each one?

you mean the date? it's right there...

[estarayella]

in response to malo2

 

 

 

sure its extremely avoidable... unles you are a new member, or a new player, or maybe, you know, you dont know about every single facet of the game! how many people know nettles are poisonous? that you must wear gloves to pick them? how many new members know that red gloves and boots arent dragon?

 

 

 

i refuse to believe that a girl takes any blame for her rape if it happens to her, and, having been through the experience, and the councelling that followed, i can tell you i believe that while i may have created the circumstances by being that drunk, and dressed to go out, that in NO WAY means that he should have done it, and i will not take ANY of the lame for his crime.

 

 

 

these analogies may be horrible, but if we take the way of thinking that you have suggested, this is where we end up, people who think nothing of taking advantage of people in game will have no qualms about doing it in real life.

 

 

 

as for walking into the wilderness, i never said anything about that, you can be scammed any time, anywhere if you arent constantly on alert, and being human, and not a machine, i dont think thats possible.

 

 

 

i would also kindly ask you to refrain from talking about my "crack pipe" since 1) it doesnt exist, and 2) i find it offensive.

[killer4hire1]

estarayella that example would only be true if there was no second trade screen.

 

The drunk girl would have to say yes which is giving consent which means its not rape.

 

 

 

If you dont look at the second trade screen then it is your fault.

 

And no im not saying the scammer, like others who use my previous line we know the scammer played a big part and should be banned but it was the persons stupidity for getting scammed.

[estarayella]

killer, i see your point, but it seems i havent made mine very well with that particular example. that example was intended to be used not in regards to the "trade window" scam, but to the sweeping comment that stupidity causes scammers and that "their[ the victims] completely stupid actions" caused it to happen.

 

 

 

take for exaple, an easy scam ( because we must remember that not all scams happen in trades or the wild). tribesmen on karamja. new member explores karamja, because its also a f2p place. sees new part of island. sees high level member asks for a help/ a good place to train. high level member ( knowing this is new member with no antipoison) "sure try tribesmen" new member attacks tribesman.new member gets poisoned. new member dies..... high level gains all their items. is the new member to blame? yes, insofar as trusting another player makes you to blame. they didnt know about poison, they didnt ask to be "lured" (which to me all comes under rule 2). the person to blame is the high leveled member who knowingly sent him there.

 

 

 

ditto someone who has no idea about clue scrolls being caught in the armour trimming scam. to people who have been playing years, these are obvious, but to new members, or even some older members who pure train skills who dont know about these things, are they to blame?? in my eyes the answer is no, others may differ

[malo2]

in response to malo2

 

 

 

sure its extremely avoidable... unles you are a new member, or a new player, or maybe, you know, you dont know about every single facet of the game! how many people know nettles are poisonous? that you must wear gloves to pick them? how many new members know that red gloves and boots arent dragon?

or maybe you should just read what the person said before you respond to them?

 

 

 

i refuse to believe that a girl takes any blame for her rape if it happens to her, and, having been through the experience, and the councelling that followed, i can tell you i believe that while i may have created the circumstances by being that drunk, and dressed to go out, that in NO WAY means that he should have done it, and i will not take ANY of the lame for his crime.

well first of all, nobody ever said the criminal takes no blame. Secondly, what you are saying make no sence what so ever. If a girl gets drunk, and get dressed in a certain way. she obviously took the steps that lead to getting raped. Did some magical evil man control her mind to make her do that? no. This is no longer a matter of opinion, its fact.

 

 

 

these analogies may be horrible, but if we take the way of thinking that you have suggested, this is where we end up, people who think nothing of taking advantage of people in game will have no qualms about doing it in real life.

Well I was referring to the second analogy, and horrible because it makes no sense.

 

 

 

as for walking into the wilderness, i never said anything about that, you can be scammed any time, anywhere if you arent constantly on alert, and being human, and not a machine, i dont think thats possible.

I was talking about scamming. How can we have a decent argument when I'm spending half the time here explaining common sense to you?

 

 

 

i would also kindly ask you to refrain from talking about my "crack pipe" since 1) it doesnt exist, and 2) i find it offensive.

You sound like you are high, thats all.

[estarayella]

again i must ask you to refrain from implying i am "high".

 

 

 

also, i did read your post, i believe you said "getting scammed is something extremely avoidable" those were my reasons as to why its not, in my opinion.

 

 

 

you also say "If a girl gets drunk, and get dressed in a certain way. she obviously took the steps that lead to getting raped." perhaps you may believe this, i do not. you seem to believe that she was asking for it just because of the way she was dressed and acting, i disagree. no the man did not make her get drunk, or dress that way, but he did take advantage of her, she was not asking for him to rape her, was she?

 

 

 

in the same way, you seem to believe that people who (for example) are asking how they get trimmed armour are asking to be scammed. again, i completely disagree with this, and i find that way of thinking abhorrent. if you chose to think that way, that is merely your opinion.

 

 

 

perhaps my analogies make no sense, so let me spell it out to you. you (for example) tell someone to kill a tribesman. they get poisoned. you wait for them to die. you take their stuff. a man says can you help me find my wallet i've dropped it somewhere. you go to help him look. you turn your back on him. he stabs you. you die. one example is just a more extreme example of the same situation. you blame the person who got killed by tribesmen for not knowing they are poisonous, so will you also blame the person who thought they were helping that man out, just because they didnt know he had a knife?

[littlejohnnyboy]

i cannot believe that anyone would ever say that a girl who got raped was to blame for being drunk while out clubbing. yes she was stupid to get that drunk, and ignorant to believe it wouldnt happen to her, but that doesn't give the scumbag who rapes her any justification for doing it.

 

 

 

Malo2 Wrote: I think that alot of people can agree that it is the girls fault. Obviously I'm not saying that the rapists take no blame, but someone of that stupidity would take a good portion of the blame.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. Malo2, I must say that in the real world people DO go out and DO get drunk, go to a club/bar/party. This happens in the real world, nearly everyone does it. Maybe you are not of age yet so I guess you wouldn't understand - that's why I must explain these things.

 

 

 

When you do start drinking I guess you are going to say "HEY, if I lose track and get a little over drunk - it's MY fault if I get raped by a man." Of course then you would say: "Well it would of course be the dirty man's fault too, but geeze it's my fault if I want to go out and club. I have to deal with it."

 

 

 

That's ridiculous. To use a very common stereotype: a woman get's mugged on the street, loses her purse. Guess it was her fault for going out for groceries that day :) tsk tsk, of course that naughty burgler shouldn't have stolen, but why did SHE go out? Should make better choices..

 

 

 

I feel very strongly about the fact that rape is a very violent act, that should by no means be blamed on the victim. Runescape is very different from an offence punishible by law. It's a horrible act, and to see even a hint of you defending a rapist Malo, makes me feel like vomiting a little.

[estarayella]

this is exactly why i chose that example, it a very harsh real life crime.by itself it doesnt mean anything in relation to runescape, but consider this.... runescape doesnt have rape. or mugging... instead it has scamming and macroing and hacking. these are the rape and mugging equivalents in runescape, in my opinion, and are therefore in my eyes, equally abhorrent.

[primadog]

estarayella,

 

 

 

First off, I am very respectful of you willing to present such painful memories to share with us -- I can't imagine how terrible it must be -- so we may have some background to draw conclusions from.

 

 

 

However, to be fair to malo2, I can't agree with your statement:

 

 

 

these are the rape and mugging equivalents in runescape, in my opinion, and are therefore in my eyes, equally abhorrent.

 

 

 

There's a reason why rape is a capital punishment in RL while scamming is rarely a temp-ban in RS. If someone lost from rs gp, they can easily get it all back, but the emotional trama from rape would never truly be resolved (as you can testify). The lost for the victim is significantly greater, that's why rape is such a hated crime.

 

 

 

We should avoid such simple comparisons -- not only are them misguiding, but they're also dangerous in that the very same comparison might simplify such evil things as rape to be only as bad as scamming. *

 

 

 

*Of course, i have also done so in my own letters, and I'll like to apologize here.

[Coupe]

Great read! Who's the Editor?