Being Open Minded

[Barihawk]

Theres a difference between having an opinion and having a dogmatic opinion. I hate these words anyway but i'll admit I am "close minded" on somethings because I beleive empiricism is the way to find truth, and therefore i am "close minded" to things like divine revelation ect.

 

 

 

Not all religious types are dogmatic, Satenza. Many religious people around the world have researched and studied in order to discover their faith, therefore making it their own opinion.

 

 

 

Yes, there are people who blindly follow religion in a dogmatic practice. These are also generally the people who think they are religious because they give money to their faith and attend worship maybe twice a year on holidays.

 

 

 

I personally am closed minded when it comes to eating out. I hate Japanese food and am not willing to give it a second try. Therefore, I am closed minded.

 

 

 

No need for "" marks around it Satenza. By refusing to accept something because you believe otherwise, you ARE closed minded.

 

 

 

Show me a true open minded person and I will show you a rainbow in the palm of my hand.

[Kenshinjapan]

Show me a true open minded person and I will show you a rainbow in the palm of my hand.

 

 

 

A new born baby. A village idiot. The guy(s) that set the record for most ever taken illegal drugs :XD: .

[Barihawk]

A newborn baby has no opinions on anything. It is relying on thoughts such as, I am hungry or I am not happy. It is then taught to make it's own opinions by others. And it will probably adapt to the opinions of these others.

 

 

 

A child does not have the ability to truly make their own decisions until a much later age.

[warri0r45]

I don't think taking a stance on an issue makes you close minded at all. It's your ability to be receptive to the fact you may be wrong or that there is another way of looking at things which makes you open minded.

 

 

 

I'm not understanding where some people are getting the idea that if you take a stance, you're automatically close minded.

 

 

 

Open-minded

 

Close-minded

[Satenza]

Theres a difference between having an opinion and having a dogmatic opinion. I hate these words anyway but i'll admit I am "close minded" on somethings because I beleive empiricism is the way to find truth, and therefore i am "close minded" to things like divine revelation ect.

 

 

 

Not all religious types are dogmatic, Satenza.

 

 

 

My first sentance wasn't aimed at anyone in this thread, i was just stating that there is a difference between soemone who has an opinion that can be shaped and someone who does not want to shape their opinion because they think it's infalliable.

 

 

 

No need for "" marks around it Satenza. By refusing to accept something because you believe otherwise, you ARE closed minded.

 

 

 

 

I placed quotation marks because as I said, i dislike the phrase "close minded" and tend to think that it doesn't mean very much in an argument.

[Barihawk]

Ok Warri0r, if I were to come do your door and try to sell you to religion, what would you say?

 

 

 

Looking back on some of these religious topics, I can find several times when you are "Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others" while you criticize me as a Christian for being "stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas."

 

 

 

And the majority of anti-religious people in this forum are not only willing to be intolerant of my beliefs, but they are not willing to be receptive to the notion that they may be wrong.

[Soul_failure]

It takes alot to be truly "open-minded" at the end of the day everyone has a grudge or prejudice against someone or something, it's human nature.

 

 

 

Everyone likes to say they are open minded, this may well be true for one subject yet not for another subject, therefore I feel that open-mindedness does not truly exist.

[kelem_ryu]

But, on matters of fact, evidence, observations and verifiable tests, I don't consider it at all closed minded to go with what science would theorise and critically conclude.

 

 

 

I do. By that you close your mind to anything that doesn't fit into this scientific believe sytem. For all i know some key elements of science may just be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Generally there is imo a difference between being open minded and presenting an opinion. Opinions usually exclude other opinions. Not everybody however will cling to his opinion no matter what. Changing an opinion takes some time though. To me open mindedness means to put yourself into the shoes of somebody presenting an opinion and accept it just as he does. Affirming that this opinion is right. Then the process of critical thinking starts and you compare this right opinion with other ideas and opinions you know (all of them valid and right). Contrary to scientific practice i try to varify every statement instead of trying to falsify it. This way i end up with a broader spectrum of possible truths.

 

 

 

I guess true open mindedness means to accept every opinion, idea, theory and so as true. You need to close your mind to some degree to stay functional in day to day world.

[venomai]

Just remember, if you disagree with anything I wrote you aren't being open minded!

 

Jeez... talk about skewed logic.

 

 

 

A better way to look at "open minded" would be "open to different and new ideas". This doesn't mean you have to accept them, you just have to be "open" in the sense that you try your best to understand them. Some you may accept, and others you may not.

[Barihawk]

Just remember, if you disagree with anything I wrote you aren't being open minded!

 

Jeez... talk about skewed logic.

 

 

 

A better way to look at "open minded" would be "open to different and new ideas". This doesn't mean you have to accept them, you just have to be "open" in the sense that you try your best to understand them. Some you may accept, and others you may not.

 

 

 

That swings both ways, though.

 

 

 

I may research and try to understand things, but if I do not accept them I at least made the effort.

 

 

 

While I am conservatively Christian, I do look into things to understand them. Know thine enemy, if you will. I don't shut my ears and go "la la la."

[assassin_696]

Being close minded is having a position while being open minded is being undecided.

 

 

 

I'd disagree there. For example when I assume a position in a debate, whatever it may be, that does not mean that I am close-minded to the fact that I might be proved wrong or that there is a more valid alternative.

 

 

 

Maybe it's simply coming down to definitions, but to me close-minded implies that one is completely unreceptive to the possibility that one might be wrong. Therefore I am not close-minded when it comes to a religion (believe it or not). I have an opinion, and it's a fairly strong one, but I am still receptive and open to the possibility to the fact that there might be a God. I'm skeptical, yes, which I believe is the position anyone should assume when someone is making an extroadinary claim without evidence, but that does not make me close-minded. And calling myself an atheist does not make me close-minded, I just think that the burden of proof with any claim is with the claimant, and if they cannot come up with any kind of proof the default position should be to not believe, but not close your mind to the fact that evidence might one day be presented.

 

 

 

Sorry for bringing in religion a bit, but it helps put my point across. As someone who is scientifically minded, like warri0r, I thrive on what is true and what can be proven with evidence. But when I don't see any evidence or proof then i'm going to be skeptical, not close-minded, just skeptical.

[The Dark Lord]

In my opinion, having a true open mind is impossible. If you had a true open mind, I could tell you that magical blue fairies created the universe and you would at least consider it as a possibility. However, everyone would think I'm stupid if I said that. You would use common sense and say that what I'm saying is very, very stupid.

 

 

 

Yes, there are limitations. Our version of open-mindedness is actually just a higher version of closed-mindedness. What we consider "closed-minded" is just a lower version of closed-mindedness.

 

 

 

 

While I am conservatively Christian, I do look into things to understand them. Know thine enemy, if you will. I don't shut my ears and go "la la la."

 

 

 

I got permanently banned from a Christian forum site because I suggested that Christians should study something before rejecting it. I said they shouldn't read Christian-biased articles against Evolution because the Christian-biased articles all lie about Evolution. (At least the ones that I've read. They try to make it seem idiotic, even to the point of LYING about what Evolutionists believe.)

 

 

 

They called me a Christian basher and banned me. Oh well.

[Barihawk]

I think a fair amount of closed-mindedness is essential. Everyone needs their own unchanging core beliefs. No matter what they may be.

 

 

 

And Assassin, I've since changed that position :P.

[The Dark Lord]

I think a fair amount of closed-mindedness is essential. Everyone needs their own unchanging core beliefs. No matter what they may be.

 

 

 

And Assassin, I've since changed that position :P.

 

 

 

Exactly! Even though what I believe has changed drastically since joining in debates, I still hold core beliefs that I've had before. I'm not going to go into an abortion debate and say that abortion is okay just because the majority believes it is. True, I might be letting emotion get in the way. However, it would be a weakness if I just give in and change my beliefs that easily.

 

 

 

Mind you, I was a very fundamental Christian when I joined this forum. I soon realized that what people said had a very good point. I have changed my views on homosexuality, science, etc. I'm more of an Agnostic-type Christian if that makes sense. (Basically a liberal.) I also realized that I was submitting to the beliefs of my parents. I was raised in an overly-conservative family. Now, my political views are Moderate, possibly Liberal.

 

 

 

For example, I was taught that homosexuals were delusional sinners. Now, I believe that there is nothing wrong with it. They're not delusional, they're just naturally attracted to the same sex. They can't help it. Even if they acted straight, they would still be gay. Being homosexual doesn't mean that you have to have sex with the same gender in order to be gay, it just means you at least have that attraction. Also with that realization, my extreme empathetic skills kick in when I read stories about gay friends going into mental breakdowns because they are gay. I cannot read stuff like that without crying or at least feeling like I'm about to cry.

 

 

 

I was also taught that women were inferior to men and that they should submit to the authority of man. I have always questioned that though. True, I am male, but I also am what you would call "effeminate." So that does mean that I have a different world-view just from that.

 

 

 

Moral of the story: Don't follow beliefs because people follow them. Think for yourself, even if you risk disappointing relatives.

[assassin_696]

And Assassin, I've since changed that position :P.

 

 

 

Dammit Bari, be more close-minded, I can't keep track. :P

[dutchdreams]

Open mindedness is living in a country where an openly gay married television host can hold the position of minister in his Christian church. Sadly, he died yesterday because of colon cancer, 65 years old. Jos Brink, I salute you (no English wiki available)

[IGoddessI]

Ok Warri0r, if I were to come do your door and try to sell you to religion, what would you say?

 

 

 

I'll listen to your religion if you come inside sit down for a cuppa and listen to mine.

 

 

 

I'm yet to find someone who is selling me religion willing to listen to me if I listen to them.

[Barihawk]

Ok Warri0r, if I were to come do your door and try to sell you to religion, what would you say?

 

 

 

I'll listen to your religion if you come inside sit down for a cuppa and listen to mine.

 

 

 

I'm yet to find someone who is selling me religion willing to listen to me if I listen to them.

 

 

 

Hell, I'd probably love to. As long as it doesn't involve too out there things like virgin goat sacrifices.

[IGoddessI]

I'm yet to find a door knocker who is willing to sit down with me yet :(

[BlueLancer]

If you oppose something that doesn't personally harm you or anybody else, you're close minded (making fun of gay people, other religions, etc.)

 

 

 

I don't care what people do as long as it's neutral. People who denounce others like "God hates people who abort/have sex before marriage/are gay" are just so ridiculous. God says? Excuse me? Did he talk to you? God, if one exists, is probably pretty damn open minded/smart, I doubt he'd hate any of the people he has created himself.

 

 

 

Religion is a big part of culture. Instead of learning it to "believe it", take it as a part of a culture. Most people, in most countries, aren't really that religious. It applies to nearly all religions. It's an integral part of their culture. Yet so many christians, muslims, hindus etc. haven't even touched their 'holy book'. It's just something embedded in their culture.

 

 

 

Understanding others and accepting people are different is what's open minded. Spreading hate, prejudice and ignorance is what destroys societies and structures.

[warri0r45]

Ok Warri0r, if I were to come do your door and try to sell you to religion, what would you say?

 

 

 

Looking back on some of these religious topics, I can find several times when you are "Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others" while you criticize me as a Christian for being "stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas."

 

 

 

And the majority of anti-religious people in this forum are not only willing to be intolerant of my beliefs, but they are not willing to be receptive to the notion that they may be wrong.

 

Then please do so I can apologise profusely.

 

 

 

As for the person coming to my door in all honesty I'd likely ask them to show me something totally novel about thier religion which I've probably never heard before and after doing so, if it's nothing new, I'd likely say thanks but no thanks. If you'd like to sell me your religion I'd love to hear something that I've likely never heard before. I mean something interesting as hell (not literally; I'd imagine hell is a pretty monotonous place, lol :P ). Shoot me through a PM if you'd like.

 

 

 

But again, if you could, which it seems you'd have no problem in doing, show me where I was as you accuse me and I'll apologise to you.

[warri0r45]

But, on matters of fact, evidence, observations and verifiable tests, I don't consider it at all closed minded to go with what science would theorise and critically conclude.

 

 

 

I do. By that you close your mind to anything that doesn't fit into this scientific believe sytem. For all i know some key elements of science may just be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Generally there is imo a difference between being open minded and presenting an opinion. Opinions usually exclude other opinions. Not everybody however will cling to his opinion no matter what. Changing an opinion takes some time though. To me open mindedness means to put yourself into the shoes of somebody presenting an opinion and accept it just as he does. Affirming that this opinion is right. Then the process of critical thinking starts and you compare this right opinion with other ideas and opinions you know (all of them valid and right). Contrary to scientific practice i try to varify every statement instead of trying to falsify it. This way i end up with a broader spectrum of possible truths.

 

 

 

I guess true open mindedness means to accept every opinion, idea, theory and so as true. You need to close your mind to some degree to stay functional in day to day world.

 

 

 

Perhaps I didn't elaborate on my mentality when it comes to science. If you can prove me wrong I invite it. In fact I emplore you to. Really, please, do. I can't stress enough at how much I don't give a damn about holding to a theory, no matter what it is. If you manage to overturn a past paradigm in scientific thought and present a new one with a greater breadth of explanatory power and evidential weight, I'd be willing to shake your hand, sir.

 

 

 

And science is not a belief system, it's at current the most, or only, objective methodology to uncover knowlege of the universe in which we live.

[fakeitormakeit]

I love how so many people can point to a group of people and say those people in general are close-minded, do you know every single last one of them?

 

 

 

And I don't consider taking a side nessissarily being close minded, because you could still willfully learn about the opposing position and still have a chance of being persuaded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. I hate hate hate hate hate when people can point at a group and make a statement, perhaps majority but still when you say X group is Y your saying all unless stated otherwise and I wouldn't even waste my saliva to spit upon their statement.

[warri0r45]

But, on matters of fact, evidence, observations and verifiable tests, I don't consider it at all closed minded to go with what science would theorise and critically conclude.

 

 

 

I do. By that you close your mind to anything that doesn't fit into this scientific believe sytem. For all i know some key elements of science may just be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Generally there is imo a difference between being open minded and presenting an opinion. Opinions usually exclude other opinions. Not everybody however will cling to his opinion no matter what. Changing an opinion takes some time though. To me open mindedness means to put yourself into the shoes of somebody presenting an opinion and accept it just as he does. Affirming that this opinion is right. Then the process of critical thinking starts and you compare this right opinion with other ideas and opinions you know (all of them valid and right). Contrary to scientific practice i try to varify every statement instead of trying to falsify it. This way i end up with a broader spectrum of possible truths.

 

 

 

I guess true open mindedness means to accept every opinion, idea, theory and so as true. You need to close your mind to some degree to stay functional in day to day world.

 

 

 

Perhaps I didn't elaborate on my mentality when it comes to science. If you can prove me wrong I invite it. In fact I emplore you to. Really, please, do. I can't stress enough at how much I don't give a damn about holding to a theory, no matter what it is. If you manage to overturn a past paradigm in scientific thought and present a new one with a greater breadth of explanatory power and evidential weight, I'd be willing to shake your hand, sir.

 

 

 

And science is not a belief system, it's at current the most, or only, objective methodology to uncover knowlege of the universe in which we live.

 

 

 

EDIT: Just to add, if talking about supernatural notions, I'm not the kind of person to believe they don't exist. Research weak atheism and agnosticism. Those are what I am. If there's something I don't know, I'm not going to accept it nor am I going to deny it. Also, science does not state anything on the existance, qualities, properties or otherwise of supernatural notions; as you're probably aware it's a naturally limited methodology and stakes no claim on the supernatural. In lacking belief via skepticism and stating in all honesty It's not the kind of thing I can have knowlege of, I still invite anyone to show me why thier supernatural notions are true of the reality in which we exist.

 

 

 

(gah, hit quote when I should have hit edit, sorry)

[Barihawk]

Ok Warri0r, if I were to come do your door and try to sell you to religion, what would you say?

 

 

 

Looking back on some of these religious topics, I can find several times when you are "Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others" while you criticize me as a Christian for being "stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas."

 

 

 

And the majority of anti-religious people in this forum are not only willing to be intolerant of my beliefs, but they are not willing to be receptive to the notion that they may be wrong.

 

Then please do so I can apologise profusely.

 

 

 

As for the person coming to my door in all honesty I'd likely ask them to show me something totally novel about thier religion which I've probably never heard before and after doing so, if it's nothing new, I'd likely say thanks but no thanks. If you'd like to sell me your religion I'd love to hear something that I've likely never heard before. I mean something interesting as hell (not literally; I'd imagine hell is a pretty monotonous place, lol :P ). Shoot me through a PM if you'd like.

 

 

 

But again, if you could, which it seems you'd have no problem in doing, show me where I was as you accuse me and I'll apologise to you.

 

 

 

Bah, you've grown up in the past few months. I do remember you being a little more...shall we say...blunt. But you've been a good little boy for the first 10 pages of your posts :P.

 

 

 

Give me a few days to come up with a PM. I am really tuckered out from work, and tomorrow is going to be worse. The joys of being an RA.

 

 

 

EDIT: Dangit!

 

 

 

and barihawk -

 

 

 

Seriously, I am getting sick of these topics that claim that Christians are backwards Middle Age relics. We believe in science, too.

 

 

 

 

thanks for not being ignorant. :)

 

 

 

I'm probably getting you confused with someone else, Warri0r. However, In the span of one year you have aged like 10 according to your posts :P. I like that.