fakeitormakeit Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Eh, I wanted better challenges agaisnt them, but I suppose it is my fault for wanting information but not giving much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Err, you could provide more information on the three topics. Most of us are too lazy to look for information ourselves. I hope warr0r43 posts he usually has a strong point. Geez, make him more sanguine than The Franklin, whydotcha :P . [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errdoth Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 [miracles] The teacher was saying something in religion class last year where the bread and wine turned to blood an tissue or something??? Last.fm Signature Overlays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeitormakeit Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 ask of what specific info you want and I'll give to you that. I love learning of the other side's opinion. P.S.: People who say all catholics are close-minded, stick that in your pipe and smoke it and then realise your either too young to be smoking so you get in big trouble with your dad or you are old enough to make your own decisions but know its bad for your health :D (lame :P). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unoalexi Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Define miracle... I personally feel it's a miracle whenever a person takes a moment out of their own life and helps someone less fortunate.. Like when a dedicated teen helps the elderly, or a person gives all their lottery money to charity.. Human kindess.. it is getting rarer and rarer these days, in this society utterly obsessed with the lives of Britney Spears or Paris Hilton, and with suburban girls starving themselves just so they can look thin and pretty like the models they see in magazines.. These so called 'legends' aren't really miracles, at least to me.. -.- Here be dragons ^ Dragon of the Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Well, ethier they actually happened or are mere myth. What we need is a Time Machine. "The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadril Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I haven't heard of these so more info would be great. I'm sure theres an explanation for them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barihawk Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 The second happens all the time. Natural springs pop out of sinkholes all the time. Lakes appear overnight from the damn things, here in Texas. Happens from overpumping oil. In Ranger, a sinkhole opened 5 feet wide over a period of two hours, and is now 4 miles wide. There are numerous "healing springs" here as well. Tons of water hidden in the earth. My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeitormakeit Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 um yes, people please I don't really know what more you want, you have to ask specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Hundreds and hundreds of years ago a bunch of Scandinavian people thought the only explanation for lightning was a supernatural occurance. That turned out to be wrong. The point being just because I can't explain it now dosen't mean I won't be able to explain it in the future. It's this premise where falling back on any supernatural explanation for natural occurances fails and is the prime reason why something like intelligent design or miracles aren't scientific. Indeed it's the prime reason why science is restricted to explaining natural occurances with natural explanations. It's called 'god of the gaps' - filling holes in knowlege with supernatural explanations. It's a logical fallacy, basically. For me to be able to genuinely call these occurances miracles, I'd have to let eternity play out and see if I still can't explain them after that time based on knowns. Sure, I can believe miracles are genuine, which I personally don't because I'm a skeptic, but this dosen't make them miracles. The take home message from this is that at present, I can't explain these things (someone else may be able to, I'm not sure). However this does nothing to verify them as genuine miracles, if genuine miracles exist. It's like saying there are holes in your theory, therefore mine is verified as more accurate. Nope. For miracles to be genuine or for us to be able to call them miracles, it would have to be based on your ability to argue for them to be miraculous, not my lack of ability to refute your claim that they are. Anyway a litte more background of these miracles would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craiglowery Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Whats the purpose of this thread? Do you want us to tell you what we think of miracles, or are you just giving explanations for the 3 miracles that you posted? Well I think that all miracles can be explained somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 None of your examples have any proof that their origins are supernatural. 1. The Host of Offida, Italy Summary: Lady did something bad with host after church, it started bleeding, still have the wet flesh perserved in Offida. Supposedly happened in 1273. There is no wet flesh in offida. If there was a piece of flesh in 1273, it could have come from anywhere, unless someone is able to reproduce that miracle in the modern age, where we are able to record events for posterity using video cameras. 2. Fountain of Lordes Summary: Mary appears 18x, tells girl to dig, spring flows, has claimed healing power not detectable by science Not Sure: I think they analysed it under a microscope and found the water was completely pure & clean. They analyzed it and found it to be regular water. The healing power of the water is a placebo effect and is one of many examples of faith healing, most obviously because it does not work on everyone. 3. Shroud of Turin Summary: Believed to be the cloth of linen that was wrapped around Jesus. Even with today's technology it would be quite difficult to create a Shroud of Turin. It is the single most studied human artifact of all human history. Even if it was the cloth that buried Jesus (unlikely, as carbon dating from three independent teams of university scientists showed that it was made in the middle ages), it would still be just a piece of cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_death_bombs55 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 First miracle: The flesh would have rotted by now, making all tests false second, already answered by others Third, it is from a material they had back then that we don't have because the plant/animal/whatever went extinct or we cannot find it. When you mentioned the Dragon Plates I had a sudden vision of a load of gangsters running around in fancy dress yealling "Grim Reaper in da hood!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercifull Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 1. The Host of Offida, Italy Summary: Lady did something bad with host after church, it started bleeding, still have the wet flesh perserved in Offida.I don't really understand this, the sentence doesn't make sense. Its not unknown for wet flesh to last a long time. There are even reports of possible dinosaur fleshy matter being preserved. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/ ... 3019.shtml 2. Fountain of Lordes Summary: Mary appears 18x, tells girl to dig, spring flows, has claimed healing power not detectable by science Not Sure: I think they analysed it under a microscope and found the water was completely pure & clean.Its an interesting story but there's no witnesses to back up the claims. There have never been any confirmed miracles due to the water at lourdes. Even the Vatican wont backup any of the claimed miracles for fear of being caught wrong. 3. Shroud of Turin Summary: Believed to be the cloth of linen that was wrapped around Jesus. Even with today's technology it would be quite difficult to create a Shroud of Turin. It is the single most studied human artifact of all human history. I would doubt your claim that it is the single most studied artifact in the world but its still pretty well studied. Of course the fact that pretty much all the respected evidence points to it being a fake that doesn't stop the true believers who will ignore any evidence that doesn't match their own belief. Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Debunking the Shroud of Turin, from a largely Christian website The Fountain at Lordes, is as Paperclips said, a placebo effect, largely faith healing. To be honest I think there are better miracles you could have picked. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Debunking the Shroud of Turin, from a largely Christian website The Fountain at Lordes, is as Paperclips said, a placebo effect, largely faith healing. To be honest I think there are better miracles you could have picked. For example, the miracle of how Jesus brought the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happybappy Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 The shroud one has an explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin#Carbohydrate_layer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenin64 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 That lady obviously somehow picked up a flesh-eating bacteria after her rendevous with the priest. Yes, that very same afternoon. Command the Murderous Chalices! Drink ye harpooners! drink and swear, ye men that man the deathful whaleboat's bow- Death to Moby Dick!BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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