warri0r45 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 There's absolutely no sense in god sending apparitions only to appease cultural references which everyone grew up with. If he was the real deal, he'd send a culture neutral apparition to everyone, i.e. the true one. If he isn't doing that, then it's probably just people imagining things/over-hyping natural occurrences. First, if the images are real, he's not sending them to appease any social images, he's just using the image held in a persons mind to reinforce the fact that it really is God visiting them. He could also appear as a burning bush, a bright light, or a purple hippopatamus for all that matters. If a person thought Jesus was a purple hippo, God would present himself to them as a purple hippo. Plus, why would God send an image to everyone? If everyone receives an image then he proves his existence, which is kinda what he doesn't want. The whole reason that our God image is of a white God is because we are a white society. In Africa, there are instances of dark-skinned Marys and Jesuses (awkward plurals), in Asian countries, of Asian forms of them, so on and so forth. That was both a missionary tactic (Look, he's like you, worship him) and just an assimilation change that the culture forced on the religion. I'm not talking about sending an image to everyone, only about having a consistent message. Clearly you have a different opinion on this, but the argument goes that people seeing culturally unique religious references (e.g. a white Jesus) are probably seeing a fake representation taught to them by society rather than the real thing. In other words, they're inventing things that aren't real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehllz Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'm not disputing if it's real or not, I'm just saying that people would believe that they'd been visited by Jesus more easily if they saw the Jesus they had been raised on, which in many cases is the white Jesus. So God would present himself in the image the person believes God would take if they he were presenting himself to them. Or, maybe I'm just not getting the point of the conversation. Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. -Napoleon Bonaparte Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein Global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. -Bobby Henderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forerunner Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 God is a fancy name give to the Universal energy that controls the flow of life. (My opinion; Go suck it.) Only fear God,Know the weapons of the weak,The weakness of the hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 God is a fancy name give to the Universal energy that controls the flow of life. (My opinion; Go suck it.) Hey, that's exactly what I think God is too. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perakp Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 God is a fancy name give to the Universal energy that controls the flow of life. :thumbup: (well put) but why does the universal energy mind how we live and he'd better keep his hands off me when I die I know he didn't say anything about it but the bible did I'm going to agree with Perakp here. I think I'd rather just ending at some point rather than living for eternity. Without a doubt I'd be bored and after a period of time I'd have nothing more to do. There's nothing freaky about the inability to think/eternal nothingness as far as I'm concerned. To me living forever with no way out would be much more freaky. Thanks for the I-won-the-internet feeling : I get it everytime I see someone understood what I said AND agreed with it. it's awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 He never said God cared how we live, did he now? Plus, likely, when you die, you'll want a hug. I know I would. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehllz Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I want beer volcanoes and stripper factories when I die. But seriously, I think that there's more to life than just, well, life. I think that the after-life is something we cannot understand or comprehend, so I say just live life to the fullest in a way that when you die people will say "That person is in heaven" whether it exists or doesn't. I'm going along the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" train of though to achieve such an end, pretty much the basis of every religion. Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. -Napoleon Bonaparte Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein Global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. -Bobby Henderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yes_Its_Ross Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 If God is real than good thing I pray. If God isn't real then I don't blame him. ;) ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Here's a question for you guys. Are delusions that you don't act on harmful in any way at all? I don't see why there is so much hubbub about having to have proof for your beliefs. The thing is, there is no proof! Either way you look at it, there really is nothing suggesting that God does exist or that God does not exist. If you ask me, it's nothing but a 50/50. If you think life is better with a God to watch over you, then why not believe it? If you think life is better knowing that mankind is the most powerful group of beings in the universe, then why not believe it? Now, if you are going to act on your belief then that's a different story - but when it comes to just believing I don't see any harm done either way. For instance, not accepting medical help because you think it should be up to "God's will" then that's the wrong move to make. You don't know that he exists so why act on it? Same goes for atheists. Committing sins regularly because you don't think that you will be divinely punished is also a bad move. When it comes to your actions, you should only make choices based on what you do know. Main point: To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomai Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Are delusions that you don't act on harmful in any way at all? Allowing your beliefs to influence your actions is inevitable. You are doing it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyhair Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 lol i like how you start your posts :P urm, when you say god do you mean a higher power? what i reckon is that there is a higher power, its pretty hard to say because i reckon, to our minds, its pretty impossible to imagine what, theres such a massive universe that has endless ammounts of unconceivabl things. You say 'persuade me there is' but theres no way. You have to feel it, to believe in it or whatever, its impossible to proove that there is or give any real evidence because otherwise we'd all be religious. I think thats kind of what its about, havign faith in a fellow human. They way I view it is that there are so many tales and legends of holy and spiritual contact if you will that if it is true then it must all be the same 'thing'. I feel that nowadays society as a whole just isn't as spiritual and connected as it used to be, a lot of people though do say that they can feel another plain, a spiritual side. This might be in the form of a traditional religion or something like spiritualism etc. When meditating some are said to feel a higher conciousness, which is what I reckon sums up what i think is out there best. I do really strongly believe that all religions are just different ways of interpretting these experiences, im not trying to slag religions i just believe that they are all talking about the same thing its just someones way of interpreting it and over time the differences have split off into all these many religions (please don't take what Im saying in the wrong way). I mean if you think about it it does make sense, which is why i hate to see all of this religion orientated deaths that have happened over time (the IRA, the crusades etc). Either way, I don't think you have to follow a religion to still be a good person int hat religions eyes, everyone has the basic morals(really) and by just following them and trying to be as nice and helpful as possible makes you a good person. Which is why i think whether god is real or not too much of an important question, because real or not everbody should live their lives the way that the holy scriptures say(well the basics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Are delusions that you don't act on harmful in any way at all? Allowing your beliefs to influence your actions is inevitable. You are doing it now. Do you believe a belief in gravity influences actions? I do, just wondering if you did. I'm sure you don't believe that old double standard. But you are right. Happens to everyone. I believe in God, thus I pray. You believe in, well, whatever your own beliefs, as well as a (likely) firmer belief in science than me, so you do ... Something, I don't honestly know you that well. Yep. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterGreen Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I think there's a God and Jesus and all that jazz. No way to prove it 100%, but if you think about the formation of the Universe, you get some really crazy stuff. Scientists tried to see what happened during the Big Bang (Or whatever actually happened, could be anything) using a mathematical equation that reversed current paths of galaxies and stuff. What they got was nonesense. So... I think there's more to the formation of the Universe than "l0l 3xpl0shun H4x." Oh, and uh, the reason that God let's people be evil and stuff, it's because he's not a communist. (LOL) We have the freedom to do what we want, and when we die we get get graded, so to speak. The laws from way back in the old testament were relevant at the time period... Now it seems shocking because our culture differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomai Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Are delusions that you don't act on harmful in any way at all? Allowing your beliefs to influence your actions is inevitable. You are doing it now. Do you believe a belief in gravity influences actions? I do, just wondering if you did. I'm sure you don't believe that old double standard. Sure. I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest, though. Belief in gravity is backed by credible findings, whereas belief in god is backed by no credible findings at all (i.e. blind faith). You believe in, well, whatever your own beliefs, as well as a (likely) firmer belief in science than me, so you do ... Something, I don't honestly know you that well. Well, rather than asking God to fix my problems, I try to sort them out on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterGreen Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Well, rather than asking God to fix my problems, I try to sort them out on my own. Well the old saying goes that God helps people who help themselves. But praying can help if all else fails. God will bring rain and drought to believers and non-believers. The punishment or reward comes after you die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtaurian Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Scientists tried to see what happened during the Big Bang (Or whatever actually happened, could be anything) using a mathematical equation that reversed current paths of galaxies and stuff. What they got was nonesense. I'd love to see your sources. You can't say that everything that is unknown is explained by God. If it's not known, it means we haven't figured it out yet. Keep in mind that once upon a time, there were only four elements. To put it bluntly, [bleep] off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Are delusions that you don't act on harmful in any way at all? Allowing your beliefs to influence your actions is inevitable. You are doing it now. It's fine not having a paddle while your boat is idle, but you should have one when you're going upstream. Anyways, my point was that there's no harm in accepting an idea, but don't depend on it for making decisions in life if it doesn't have enough support to back it up. Accept the fact that your belief could always be wrong so you shouldn't take any unnecessary chances. However, if no risk is involved then there is no worry. Well, rather than asking God to fix my problems, I try to sort them out on my own. By saying "rather than" it sounds like you're suggesting he doesn't take any initiative in his life and he leaves it all up to God... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 No, he's right. I have God pump air into my lungs with bellows. But, say that you were raised from birth, that it was hammered into your head just as hard as gravity has been, something else. I don't know what - that's up to you to lead. But, depending on what's beaten into your head from birth, you're likely to find that logical. The human logic system is faulty, I believe. You find it illogical that I say that, and you'll say it's illogical when I say you are expected to believe that. I believe the human mind can be more powerful than any other force in this universe. Maybe in the past - I don't know. Maybe in the future - sure hope so. But right now, people are too worried about a) What's "logical", or B) what's "right". Who says there can't be more choices? Burger King has a good slogan - Have it Your Way. ...Hm, that was a good post. God, logic, future, past, bellows, jokes, Burger King. Throw a pterodactyl into the mix, and I'm golden, Ponyboy. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Well, rather than asking God to fix my problems, I try to sort them out on my own. Well the old saying goes that God helps people who help themselves. But praying can help if all else fails. A saying I'd suggest is in need of serious revision. God doesn't "help people who help themselves", obviously the people who help themselves... help themselves. God is absolutely redundant there, and thanking him solely for any achievement is denigrating the effort you put into it. As for praying, it may help psychologically, but in reality there's no evidence that it does anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomai Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 However, if no risk is involved then there is no worry. However, there is risk involved. The risk is delusion, or more specifically, widespread delusion. But, say that you were raised from birth, that it was hammered into your head just as hard as gravity has been, something else. I don't know what - that's up to you to lead. But, depending on what's beaten into your head from birth, you're likely to find that logical. The human logic system is faulty, I believe. You find it illogical that I say that, and you'll say it's illogical when I say you are expected to believe that. I believe the human mind can be more powerful than any other force in this universe. Maybe in the past - I don't know. Maybe in the future - sure hope so. But right now, people are too worried about a) What's "logical", or B) what's "right". Who says there can't be more choices? Burger King has a good slogan - Have it Your Way. Although the human mind can be easily shaped from birth, it is also susceptible to change even in later years (I was not always an atheist). I agree with "have it your way," and I feel that individuality is key. However, when an individual's unsupported logic or belief begins to negatively interfere with society as a whole, it becomes a problem. Take, for example, widespread belief in creationism as an alternative to evolution, or, to use a more extreme example, the belief that killing infidels will ensure oneself entrance to paradise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterGreen Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Scientists tried to see what happened during the Big Bang (Or whatever actually happened, could be anything) using a mathematical equation that reversed current paths of galaxies and stuff. What they got was nonesense. I'd love to see your sources. You can't say that everything that is unknown is explained by God. If it's not known, it means we haven't figured it out yet. Keep in mind that once upon a time, there were only four elements. Heh, my source is a video on string theory in chemistry... lol :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I agree with "have it your way," and I feel that individuality is key. However, when an individual's unsupported logic or belief begins to negatively interfere with society as a whole, it becomes a problem. Take, for example, widespread belief in creationism as an alternative to evolution, or, to use a more extreme example, the belief that killing infidels will ensure oneself entrance to paradise. Mmmm, I don't like believing about interference with society. I mean, it'd be tough for people to believe what they want to believe when we all share our same planet. Maybe in the future, when we colonize the universe ... But you're right, killing is always a problem. I don't think believing God created everything is a problem, but I do believe it's a bit silly to believe in God but not evolution. Believing in both or simply evolution seems the right way to go, there ... catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinjula Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'm not sure what you're trying to suggest, though. Belief in gravity is backed by credible findings, whereas belief in god is backed by no credible findings at all (i.e. blind faith). Something to consider though - do you know precisely what those credible findings are? Do you also know what credible findings support all the other parts of science? If not you're simply believing what someone else says, and that's kinda blind faith too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 However, there is risk involved. The risk is delusion, or more specifically, widespread delusion. I guess I'll say it one more time. If there is no support for your belief, then you shouldn't act on it. The actual belief itself is not harmful, just acting on it is. And no, you don't have to act on your unsupported beliefs. I don't get what you're arguing... Are you saying it's impossible to think, "No, I could always be wrong so I won't take the risk of acting on it."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venomai Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 The actual belief itself is not harmful, just acting on it is. Which is inevitable. Our actions are influenced by our beliefs. Widespread ignorance, while not a good thing, is something that often cannot be avoided. On the other hand, widespread delusion (which is often a direct result of blind faith) is something that can be avoided. Something to consider though - do you know precisely what those credible findings are? Do you also know what credible findings support all the other parts of science? If not you're simply believing what someone else says, and that's kinda blind faith too. It's not whether I fully comprehend all the proofs supporting gravity, but whether the proof actually exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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