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Joes_So_Cool

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Another regarding this childish hatred of religion by people who just wish to feel superior, also regarding the language of religion which, out of necessity, contradicts itself: Your friend gets up at 4 am every morning to go fishing. You ask him why. He says he enjoys fishing. You don't love fishing, not enough to dedicate so much time to it, but you understand and respect his love of fishing. One time, curious, you ask him just what appeals to him so much about fishing - what makes it so great. He ponders awhile, until he replies: "Fishing is fishing." This statement makes absolutely no damn sense, and yet you can probably understand what he means.

 

This one doesn't hold much meat besides for the fact that people care about religion.

 

 

Fishing is a hobby, and not one that would make you anywhere near a bigot, a homophobe, a chauvinist, a racist...

To make sure no one misunderstands this, I'm not saying all religous are, I'm saying religion brought some people to be 1 or more of the above.

 

I must say I do agree with Lent, and also you don't have huge masses believing in unicorns, which must count for something.

 

I don't think it matters. The truth is the truth whether no one believes in it, and whether everyone does.

 

Saying that religion is believeable because of the amount of people following it, is like saying I shouldn't question it because no one else does.

The fact that many believe, is not a ground for the truthfulness of the matter.

 

Romy, that statement is bizarre. The people who follow the Bible that are racist, homophobic, chauvinistic, etc. CHOOSE to be racist, homophobic and chauvinistic, the Bible doesn't make them do it.

1. You have to admit the Bible encourages it, especially chauvinism and homophobia.

You also have to admit we'd have less chauvinist, homophobic, racist, etc. people, without the Bible.

Ofcourse, there are homophobic(/chauvinist/racist) atheists too, and there are religous people who are not, but the stats show the average of each group is more inclined to go one way.

Also, you cannot choose to be any of those, it's not that simple. Just like you cannot choose you likes and dislikes, you cannot choose to like cheese cake, you cannot choose to be homophobic.

 

Wow. And what I mean to say, is you should question your beliefs, but what I'm implying is that if there are 5 billion people who believe in a Christian god for example, compare that to the 4 people who believe in Unicorns... There's gotta be evidence for God, for that many people to follow.

2. No, because there's no "point" in believing in unicorns. Unicorns don't explain the unexplainable (such as why we're here, how we got here, where we're going to, etc), and a God does.

I see religion as comfort. It explains what we cannot understand, it hands over some guidelines, it gives meaning to life, etc. That's why there are so many believers, not necessarily because there's "evidence".

 

While a lot of Christians are gullible mindless followers, a lot more atheists are as well, then they would like to admit.

3. I wouldn't got for "a lot more", especially since there are less atheists than Christians to begin with.

 

 

Atheists tend to believe they copy wrote intelligence, logic, "truth," etc when in reality it shows how foolish most are.

4. Not to be petty, but atheists are statistically more educated and smarter.

Ofcourse, that does not mean all atheists are smart, and neither does it mean that being religous makes you dumb.

 

And at your fishing comment, its an analogy, people compare baking a cake to putting together a house, sure you're both times building something, but you can't eat a house, and you can't sleep in the average sized cake. It's an analogy, I repeat.

Yes, it is an analogy. What I was pointing out is that this analogy only stands for fishing as a hobby, or even a way of life, rather than fishing as dictating morals and encourging bigottry.

1. You say the Bible instigates bigotry against several groups. I would have to disagree. One of the most well known Jesus quotes "love your enemy". Jesus is considered the final prophet and completes the word of God so His commands finalize all instructions of God. He also says not to judge least you're judged 7 x 7 times (which is emphatic language to mean a lot). Now there might be people like the WBC who distort the Bible and spread messages of hate, but the WBC are also denounced by every church who I have heard give a statement on them. The Catholic Church doesn't even acknowledge them as a church.

 

2. God does not explain why we are here, the physical processes of how we were created, etc. as those can all be scientifically explained. The existence of God deals with the study of the interior disposition and our international unity. And religion does not explain the unexplainable because every single confirmation, the bishop of my diocese always says the same cliche when he explains all this unexplainable stuff which fundamentalist religion says the Bible answers and he goes so now do you understand it? Usually everyone says yes and he goes good, cuz I don't and than rants on and on about how we can't and will not.

 

3. I think he means percentage. And there are a lot of gullible and stupid atheists. I have no statistic that compares the religiously education measurement to atheist, but I know of many atheist who are so because it is "cool" and the like. I'm not saying many atheists are like this, I just know of this type. Gullible and submissive has little to do with religious or atheistic affiliation more with personal inclination.

 

4. I simply disagree with that. That's your own baseless feeling of superiority.

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1.I wasn't talking about your religion specifically, but about religions in general. Religions, in general, encourage bigotry (even if not verbally). Because taking other opinions as wrong before examining those is bigoted.

You specifically, may not be a bigot, but many other religous are.

 

2. "God does not explain why we are here"

Which God? Again, I'm talking about religion in general.

 

God fills gaps of knowledge. God answers questions such as- What happens when we die, what our lives should be like, how we were created, etc.

 

3. Questioning your beliefs is a very hard thing to do, and I know that from experience.

Atheists who stopped believing are a lot different from atheists who were simply like that forever.

 

4. Disagree? Look it up.

It's statistically proven, there's nothing to agree/disagree about here.

 

Statistically, atheists are more educated. And that's a fact.

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4. Disagree? Look it up.

It's statistically proven, there's nothing to agree/disagree about here.

 

Statistically, atheists are more educated. And that's a fact.

1. I can't disagree with you there. There are a lot of bigoted religious people. Mind you, they spit on their own policy, as the "religious" are normally so blinded by their fervor they violate basic policies of their Church.

 

2. I know you're talking about religion in general. Pope John Paul II (as did Pius X, Pius XII and Benedict XVII) made specific declarations on the non-conflicting natures of science and religion, which is one instance in which a few billions of adherents were told religion does not answer the physical questions. And God does not fill in the gap of knowledge for the ways we should act, etc. because those are a product of our own mental deductions which are just outlined in by things such as Catholic dogma. As I said, the reason why a belief in God does not excuse one from morality is that have consciousness and the ability to make moral deductions therefore with their own ability they should be able to reach the same conclusions of morals as one who takes them from Dogma. To be blunt, a disbelief in God is not damning, it is only considered being blind and one is not damned for being blind.

 

3. And I know questioning beliefs is hard to do. I use to not believe in God because I only heard dogmatic beliefs literally and therefore reached the logical assumption that reason and a belief in God could not exist. However, I was uneducated theologically and through a greater understanding and clarity I was able to see both reason and God. If people had the type of theological study I've had there would be a lot more believers, but it would be too costly and time consuming. Modern day mainstream presentation of religion has a lot to do with its reception, I greatly dislike the idea atheism 100% of the time is derived from reason.

 

4. It is an unfair comparison. In all the studies I saw it was like atheists/agnostics and than fundamentalists. It also doesn't take into account the modern phenomenon of the death of religion. I'm sure if you took the same statistic in the 1500's it would be extremely different and in favor of the religious. The high rate of dismissal of religion is an occurrence of modernity not intelligence. Obivously if one associates the fundamentalists with the moderate theists intelligence with drop as many fundamentalists do not care about the rationale of things. I'm sure there are many atheists who are not self-proclaimed atheists but are incredibly illogical. Terminology is also a factor as one may be something but the term itself is a deterrent to identify with and as such results are inaccurate. But need I remind you of people like Monsignor Georges Lemaître? The Jesuits? Etc. The Catholic Church funds and runs the largest non-governmental education system in the world and I would say our education systems are better than publicly supplied schools [at least in the US] and I say that in New Jersey, which is suppose to be the state with the best public school system.

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He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked... Your daily life is your temple and your religion
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And God does not fill in the gap of knowledge for the ways we should act, etc.

Dunno about God, but the Bible definitely does. "You shall not murder" seems like a perfect example for a guideline simply thrown at us, or in other words "how we should act".

 

As I said, the reason why a belief in God does not excuse one from morality is that have consciousness and the ability to make moral deductions therefore with their own ability they should be able to reach the same conclusions of morals as one who takes them from Dogma. To be blunt, a disbelief in God is not damning, it is only considered being blind and one is not damned for being blind.

Religion tells you what you should be acting like. It doesn't matter whether you have the choice or not, you're told what you should be doing.

 

I greatly dislike the idea atheism 100% of the time is derived from reason.

Ofcourse not, I never claimed otherwise. Many atheists just base their opinions on a general dislike of religion, or irrational feelings, as do theists.

 

I'm sure if you took the same statistic in the 1500's it would be extremely different and in favor of the religious.

I'm not too sure, back then atheism was almost exclusively a philosophers' thing.

 

The high rate of dismissal of religion is an occurrence of modernity not intelligence.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Either way I was only pointing at stats, nothing more.

 

 

Obivously if one associates the fundamentalists with the moderate theists intelligence with drop as many fundamentalists do not care about the rationale of things. I'm sure there are many atheists who are not self-proclaimed atheists but are incredibly illogical.

Obviously. There are extremely stupid people in both groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me just make something clear here. I definitely wasn't saying being atheist makes you smart, and neither was I saying being religous makes you dumb. There are smart and dumb people in both groups.

What I was saying, is that statistics show the average "member" of each group tends to be more/less educated.

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Intelligence isn't the same thing as being educated, though. A stupid person is not necessarily ignorant, and an ignorant person is not necessarily stupid. Nonetheless, what I've seen is that on the whole atheists are more intelligent. It also comes down to open-mindedness, and religion restricts your ability to be open to new ideas. It's the dogmatic nature of it, mixed with the fact that people base their entire lives on their religion, that they will defend it to the very last drop even when it's obvious that they're wrong. I mean, if my entire life was based around the creation story, I could see myself being dogmatic and outright rejecting evolution. If my entire life was based around that, it would fall apart if I accepted that. So people who are more susceptible to the dogmatic nature of religion are, in general, less intelligent than those who are not.

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Intelligence isn't the same thing as being educated, though. A stupid person is not necessarily ignorant, and an ignorant person is not necessarily stupid. Nonetheless, what I've seen is that on the whole atheists are more intelligent. It also comes down to open-mindedness, and religion restricts your ability to be open to new ideas. It's the dogmatic nature of it, mixed with the fact that people base their entire lives on their religion, that they will defend it to the very last drop even when it's obvious that they're wrong. I mean, if my entire life was based around the creation story, I could see myself being dogmatic and outright rejecting evolution. If my entire life was based around that, it would fall apart if I accepted that. So people who are more susceptible to the dogmatic nature of religion are, in general, less intelligent than those who are not.

Dogmas are generally either extremely specific or too vague to have any affect on one's open-mindedness. It has to do with being a drone who follows what one person says as a dogma. For instance the Catholic dogma on creation is so reconcilable with science all the conditions needing to be met are just that God is the prime and source. It doesn't matter if the universe was created by the Big Bang or some unexplainable occurrence, however people misinterpreted the dogma in their own close-mindedness and said God directly and literally molded the earth himself 6000years ago. Most religious persons' inability to reconcile religion with reason and science is out of their own egotism, self-desire or stupidity.

 

But dogmas have nothing to do with close-mindedness really. My grandmother who is a strict Catholic and all that who went to school when nuns and priests taught and she knows all the dogmas and stances of the major theologians yet believes in Evolution and the "glory and marvels of science" as she puts it.

 

And to romy saying you are told what you should do is not completely correct. The canon means rules in Greek. It is not called laws, they are guidelines. Anything in the canon can be dispensed in a certain instance. Dogmatic items cannot be broken, and they're reasonable things, like one should follow what they believe in as long as it does not infringe or effect others ability and is in accordance with their conscience.

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He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked... Your daily life is your temple and your religion
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Intelligence isn't the same thing as being educated, though. A stupid person is not necessarily ignorant, and an ignorant person is not necessarily stupid. Nonetheless, what I've seen is that on the whole atheists are more intelligent. It also comes down to open-mindedness, and religion restricts your ability to be open to new ideas. It's the dogmatic nature of it, mixed with the fact that people base their entire lives on their religion, that they will defend it to the very last drop even when it's obvious that they're wrong. I mean, if my entire life was based around the creation story, I could see myself being dogmatic and outright rejecting evolution. If my entire life was based around that, it would fall apart if I accepted that. So people who are more susceptible to the dogmatic nature of religion are, in general, less intelligent than those who are not.

 

 

 

Half of that paragraph I agree with, the other half is in meh territory. First off, there's so many damn red neck and effectively stupid peasants who worship God so their corn will grow, that's bound to affect the status of intelligent theists v. atheists. (thats more about the post above yours)

 

The only difference I see from Atheism and Theism, is the God you worship. Theists worship the idea of no God, you worship the idea of a God. That statement might make no sense, but if you think about it, it really is completely true. Now, that we have defined that, being Atheistic does not guarantee you that you'll be open minded, same for being theistic. Which is really why I find the idea of comparing statistics of followers of different religions quite strange, it's really just useless semantics that doesn't affect the argument itself.

I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

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Thats what I'm trying to say L I'm just not good at communicating my thoughts >.<

I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 

My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):

Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193)

Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)
Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KC

If you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge 

 

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However, I was uneducated theologically and through a greater understanding and clarity I was able to see both reason and God.

Good for you, I guess. After all the "theological education" I've gotten, I haven't been able to see that.

 

We went through our old holiday photos yesterday and there I had my silver cross in june 2007. I lost it somewhere that year however and haven't had any necklaces/ jewellery since. I took part in my last christian camp that summer (it was my summer job) and my first post in this topic was in november 2008. So something happened there.

 

 

Believe it or not, everything is not possible.

 

Here's a good example (from another topic)

 

I try desperately to create a triangle with two obtuse angles.

 

 

 

I know, you probably think me an idiot. But I think it's possible. So I keep trying. After all, those who broke the possibility barriers of the world were some of the best benefactors, eh?

 

 

:mrgreen:

 

Thinking that everything is possible, even if only to a supernatural force, I believe, is immensely dangerous to both individuals and the community.

Now I have to apologize to Lent, because it is infact possible to make a triangle with two obtuse angles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Euclidean_geometry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%A1nos_Bolyai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0s620qpNmE

 

triangles.jpg

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