k00ldud95 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Christianity, at least, is justified because billions of people have faith in the god that the three major western religions speak of. Thats not justification, its circular logic. If Everyone should believe in Christianity because a lot of people believe in it, then there shouldn't be any christians in the first place. People should believe in whatever religion because they actually have faith in it; faith is useless if its not actually faith. That's why i said that the argument had about ten million holes in the very next sentence that you deliberately deleted. Christianity itself says that there are no facts behind God, and that it is a sin to ask for any, and that you just have to believe it. Atheists say that there is no proof, but Christianity says that there is no proof too. The fact that billions of people have accepted that does not justify it or prove it, but it is important to mention. I have already said that I cannot win this argument, because I am arguing in favor of something that has no basis in facts and makes no logical sense. God is just something that me and billions of others have faith in. You could say that god doesn't show himself, that he never uses his powers to intervene, that there it has been proven that the earth is older than the bible says it is, that it has been proven that the earth came to be how it is over millions of years and not just seven days, and my only response to all of that is that billions of people still believe it anyway, and that the faith that it happened and that god is real is all that Christianity requires. :twss: Nechs require 80 Slayer and their main drop is cheap 50k rune boots. Give nechs a better drop!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Just playing devil's advocate here, I'm curious about the answer. If you must rely on a fixed population (such as a jury or voters) to decide if someone goes to jail or if someone runs the country, why can't it be applied to something not so important such as choosing a religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfetc Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Christianity, at least, is justified because billions of people have faith in the god that the three major western religions speak of. Thats not justification, its circular logic. If Everyone should believe in Christianity because a lot of people believe in it, then there shouldn't be any christians in the first place. People should believe in whatever religion because they actually have faith in it; faith is useless if its not actually faith. That's why i said that the argument had about ten million holes in the very next sentence that you deliberately deleted. Christianity itself says that there are no facts behind God, and that it is a sin to ask for any, and that you just have to believe it. Atheists say that there is no proof, but Christianity says that there is no proof too. The fact that billions of people have accepted that does not justify it or prove it, but it is important to mention. I have already said that I cannot win this argument, because I am arguing in favor of something that has no basis in facts and makes no logical sense. God is just something that me and billions of others have faith in. You could say that god doesn't show himself, that he never uses his powers to intervene, that there it has been proven that the earth is older than the bible says it is, that it has been proven that the earth came to be how it is over millions of years and not just seven days, and my only response to all of that is that billions of people still believe it anyway, and that the faith that it happened and that god is real is all that Christianity requires. In short what you are saying is, there is not 1 logical reason that any body would choose to belive in god and because (or in spite) of this you belive in god? :shock: Fair enough. As a person with an obvious unshakable faith in god can I ask you question? (well to save time I am going to ask them and then you can choose to answer) I have already asked this to some body and he couldn't answer me, hopefully you can. You obviously trust and have complete faith in god due to your above statement, so you belive god has a plan for every body. So do you look both ways before you cross the road? If you do your faith cannot be that strong cos your are messing with god's plan. If you don't, I am surprised you havn't been hit! :lol: Yes, that question is taken from a tv programme but it is a good one, I think. IM GOING TO LIVE FOREVER .......... or die trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageOfDeath Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It's against Christianity to test God, so I guess it's a sin to walk around like you're invulnerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k00ldud95 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Christianity, at least, is justified because billions of people have faith in the god that the three major western religions speak of. Thats not justification, its circular logic. If Everyone should believe in Christianity because a lot of people believe in it, then there shouldn't be any christians in the first place. People should believe in whatever religion because they actually have faith in it; faith is useless if its not actually faith. That's why i said that the argument had about ten million holes in the very next sentence that you deliberately deleted. Christianity itself says that there are no facts behind God, and that it is a sin to ask for any, and that you just have to believe it. Atheists say that there is no proof, but Christianity says that there is no proof too. The fact that billions of people have accepted that does not justify it or prove it, but it is important to mention. I have already said that I cannot win this argument, because I am arguing in favor of something that has no basis in facts and makes no logical sense. God is just something that me and billions of others have faith in. You could say that god doesn't show himself, that he never uses his powers to intervene, that there it has been proven that the earth is older than the bible says it is, that it has been proven that the earth came to be how it is over millions of years and not just seven days, and my only response to all of that is that billions of people still believe it anyway, and that the faith that it happened and that god is real is all that Christianity requires. In short what you are saying is, there is not 1 logical reason that any body would choose to belive in god and because (or in spite) of this you belive in god? :shock: Fair enough. As a person with an obvious unshakable faith in god can I ask you question? (well to save time I am going to ask them and then you can choose to answer) I have already asked this to some body and he couldn't answer me, hopefully you can. You obviously trust and have complete faith in god due to your above statement, so you belive god has a plan for every body. So do you look both ways before you cross the road? If you do your faith cannot be that strong cos your are messing with god's plan. If you don't I am surprised you havn't been hit! :lol: Yes, that question is taken from a tv programme but it is a good one, I think. It's not necessarily that amazing to believe in something with no proof. Have you ever seen one of those late night infomercials? It costs lots of money to keep those on air. Millions of people believe the claims in those infomercials with no facts on their side, and buy the products. :twss: I'm probably not helping my side of the argument by saying something like that. Walking in front of a car to see if god would intervene would be trying to get proof of his existence, which is against the rules. An Atheist could probably easily say that that is just a rule to cover the fact that he's not really there, though. And, if one of the many Atheists said that, I wouldn't know how to respond to that. So, if you are an Atheist, please don't use that argument. :twss: Nechs require 80 Slayer and their main drop is cheap 50k rune boots. Give nechs a better drop!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfetc Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It's against Christianity to test God, so I guess it's a sin to walk around like you're invulnerable. Ok, you can't test him, you can't ask for evidence, you can't say his name in vein, you can't make a statue of him. For some body who claims to have made the earth in 6 days, he is very secretive. Did you know according to the bible there is a guy who has never died, called Enoch. Thought you might like a biblical fact : (got a few more if you like) IM GOING TO LIVE FOREVER .......... or die trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageOfDeath Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yeah there are a couple that didn't die, Elijah being the other I believe. Ok, you can't test him, you can't ask for evidence, you can't say his name in vein, you can't make a statue of him. For some body who claims to have made the earth in 6 days, he is very secretive. In my opinion it was a way to control the masses without being questioned, and anyone that did question it was ridiculed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 You obviously trust and have complete faith in god due to your above statement, so you belive god has a plan for every body. So do you look both ways before you cross the road? If you do your faith cannot be that strong cos your are messing with god's plan. If you don't, I am surprised you havn't been hit! I know you're probably just going to think I'm having a jab at you due to the other thread, but I would be saying this to anyone. It might have been god's plan to make you want to look both ways. It's impossible to know what god's plan is at all, so the only thing you could do is live your life as normal. That's like saying a meteor is going to hit earth and even though you don't know where, you should still run away from where you're standing anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k00ldud95 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It's against Christianity to test God, so I guess it's a sin to walk around like you're invulnerable. Ok, you can't test him, you can't ask for evidence, you can't say his name in vein, you can't make a statue of him. For some body who claims to have made the earth in 6 days, he is very secretive. Did you know according to the bible there is a guy who has never died, called Enoch. Thought you might like a biblical fact : (got a few more if you like) Yeah, there was also a guy who parted giant rivers, there was a river of blood, a talking snake, and a fully grown woman was crafted out of a few small organs. Also, a guy came back from the dead. Also, all of the animals and plants didn't evolve, they just popped up in one day. Billions of people, including me, are crazy enough to believe that. Thousands of people have died in wars defending that against the stories of other religions. All I can say is that the religion itself says to take it on faith and believe it. I almost feel like i'm against Christianity, even though i'm for it. :twss: Nechs require 80 Slayer and their main drop is cheap 50k rune boots. Give nechs a better drop!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfetc Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Yeah there are a couple that didn't die, Elijah being the other I believe. Ok, you can't test him, you can't ask for evidence, you can't say his name in vein, you can't make a statue of him. For some body who claims to have made the earth in 6 days, he is very secretive. In my opinion it was a way to control the masses without being questioned, and anyone that did question it was ridiculed. According to a tv programme called QI claims that enoch is oldest person ever the bible says "that god took him" I know the feeling of having a differing opinion and being ridiculed for it, who knows what I am talking about :lol: You obviously trust and have complete faith in god due to your above statement, so you belive god has a plan for every body. So do you look both ways before you cross the road? If you do your faith cannot be that strong cos your are messing with god's plan. If you don't, I am surprised you havn't been hit! I know you're probably just going to think I'm having a jab at you due to the other thread, but I would be saying this to anyone. It might have been god's plan to make you want to look both ways. It's impossible to know what god's plan is at all, so the only thing you could do is live your life as normal. That's like saying a meteor is going to hit earth and even though you don't know where, you should still run away from where you're standing anyways. Good choice, your twice as likly to get hit by an asteroid then lightning. It's against Christianity to test God, so I guess it's a sin to walk around like you're invulnerable. Ok, you can't test him, you can't ask for evidence, you can't say his name in vein, you can't make a statue of him. For some body who claims to have made the earth in 6 days, he is very secretive. Did you know according to the bible there is a guy who has never died, called Enoch. Thought you might like a biblical fact : (got a few more if you like) Yeah, there was also a guy who parted giant rivers, there was a river of blood, a talking snake, and a fully grown woman was crafted out of a few small organs. Also, a guy came back from the dead. Also, all of the animals and plants didn't evolve, they just popped up in one day. Billions of people, including me, are crazy enough to believe that. Thousands of people have died in wars defending that against the stories of other religions. All I can say is that the religion itself says to take it on faith and believe it. I almost feel like i'm against Christianity, even though i'm for it. I was brought up on your side of the fence but crossed the line to non-believer, so I know some of the claims the bible makes. I also know that sunday school lied to me about noah and his little boat (yes, I know it is an ark) they never went on two by two! Read genesis 7: 2. When I read your post before I posted I thought you were against religion. I am cos all it seems to do is cause wars and it has no logic to it (not just in the bible, why does god need money?). I can see why people want a religion though to comfort them and make there kids behave :twss: IM GOING TO LIVE FOREVER .......... or die trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmcannibalism Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Billions of people, including me, are crazy enough to believe that. Thousands of people have died in wars defending that against the stories of other religions. I hate to do this, but that statement implies you don't mind warfare as long as people are fighting over which group is the right brand of crazy. Orthodoxy is unconciousnessthe only ones who should kill are those who are prepared to be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfetc Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Billions of people, including me, are crazy enough to believe that. Thousands of people have died in wars defending that against the stories of other religions. I hate to do this, but that statement implies you don't mind warfare as long as people are fighting over which group is the right brand of crazy. I don't think any body should go to war for any reason except to stop a dictator rolling into another country hitler style, tehre are plenty of ways to go about things than killing people. IM GOING TO LIVE FOREVER .......... or die trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Good choice, your twice as likly to get hit by an asteroid then lightning. I was saying it wasn't a good choice. You don't know where the meteor will hit, so running would be just as futile as standing. And in the case of God, you can't label precautions as working against his will. If that were true, any action you do can be "working against God's will". Plus, I'm not a Christian but I'm pretty sure it's impossible for a human to ruin God's plans anyways. Whether someone looked both ways or not, they would still be following God's plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 When I read your post before I posted I thought you were against religion. I am cos all it seems to do is cause wars and it has no logic to it (not just in the bible, why does god need money?). I can see why people want a religion though to comfort them and make there kids behave :twss: Add in the human factor and it makes sense :D I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfetc Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Good choice, your twice as likly to get hit by an asteroid then lightning. I was saying it wasn't a good choice. You don't know where the meteor will hit, so running would be just as futile as standing. And in the case of God, you can't label precautions as working against his will. If that were true, any action you do can be "working against God's will". Plus, I'm not a Christian but I'm pretty sure it's impossible for a human to ruin God's plans anyways. Whether someone looked both ways or not, they would still be following God's plan. You can belive what you like but I don't want my life to be me just going through the motions that some body has set out for me to follow. I don't belive in destiny, karma, fate or the after life. I belive this is it, that this isn't just a test to decide if I burn or stare at angels or that I am doing what some higher being has laid out for me IM GOING TO LIVE FOREVER .......... or die trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k00ldud95 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Billions of people, including me, are crazy enough to believe that. Thousands of people have died in wars defending that against the stories of other religions. I hate to do this, but that statement implies you don't mind warfare as long as people are fighting over which group is the right brand of crazy. I colored my portion of the quote just to clarify it. I didn't endorse the wars, i just said that that was a part of the history. Many religious wars were not really about religion but more about a king or dictator wanting more land or money. Religion was just used to justify the situation, and encourage the public to hate the enemy. there are probably plenty of situations where the war really was about religion though. Terrorism is all about religion. I am regretting that I brought up the war thing. I could say that i suppose some people believe very strongly that it is their duty to defend the honor of their religion, and that war is a possible part of that. I don't, and interpreting the words of the bible has been relative ever since people other than Monks could read. :twss: Nechs require 80 Slayer and their main drop is cheap 50k rune boots. Give nechs a better drop!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k00ldud95 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 When I read your post before I posted I thought you were against religion. I am cos all it seems to do is cause wars and it has no logic to it (not just in the bible, why does god need money?). I can see why people want a religion though to comfort them and make there kids behave :twss: Add in the human factor and it makes sense :D how else are they going to pay the power bill for the church, or the other utilities? They also might have a lease on the building that they need to pay. :twss: Nechs require 80 Slayer and their main drop is cheap 50k rune boots. Give nechs a better drop!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenga Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 When I read your post before I posted I thought you were against religion. I am cos all it seems to do is cause wars and it has no logic to it (not just in the bible, why does god need money?). I can see why people want a religion though to comfort them and make there kids behave :twss: Add in the human factor and it makes sense :D how else are they going to pay the power bill for the church, or the other utilities? They also might have a lease on the building that they need to pay. Can't they just pimp the nuns out? Ponies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zierro Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 You can belive what you like but I don't want my life to be me just going through the motions that some body has set out for me to follow. I don't belive in destiny, karma, fate or the after life. I belive this is it, that this isn't just a test to decide if I burn or stare at angels or that I am doing what some higher being has laid out for me Yes, but you're also someone with not as much faith as him. If he has faith in God then he has faith that God was the creator of everything and the ultimate decider. His decisions about looking both ways would not affect God's decisions. I can see why people want a religion though to comfort them and make there kids behave :twss: I agree, excluding the smiley face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfetc Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 You can belive what you like but I don't want my life to be me just going through the motions that some body has set out for me to follow. I don't belive in destiny, karma, fate or the after life. I belive this is it, that this isn't just a test to decide if I burn or stare at angels or that I am doing what some higher being has laid out for me Yes, but you're also someone with not as much faith as him. If he has faith in God then he has faith that God was the creator of everything and the ultimate decider. His decisions about looking both ways would not affect God's decisions. I wasn't talking to him, I was talking to you. I find it funny you are still only quoting me :lol: People can belive what they like, for what ever reason they choose to. It isn't going to effect me so go for gold :) IM GOING TO LIVE FOREVER .......... or die trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphinxor86 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 What if all the Gods in the respective world religions are real, and recruiting our souls after death to fight out a bitter eternal war in the afterlife against one another.... Its better to be an atheist :lol: Proud owner of Questcape since 4th July 2009!! :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perfetc Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 What if all the Gods in the respective world religions are real, and recruiting our souls after death to fight out a bitter eternal war in the afterlife against one another.... Its better to be an atheist :lol: Are you comparing life to GWD? :shock: So if all the gods are recruiting and you don't belive in a god that means that you will just dissipate. I'd rather fight cos you wouldn't be able to feel pain or get tierd so it would be quite awesome. IM GOING TO LIVE FOREVER .......... or die trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgedThesis Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Better to put faith in humanity, become reborn men and women with ties to no God, band together under a flag of our own making, and rebel. But I don't want to go among mad people!Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphinxor86 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Are you comparing life to GWD? :shock: ROFL, not intentionally! But I can see the similarity :lol: I don't believe in god(s) anyway. Proud owner of Questcape since 4th July 2009!! :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamorakshadow Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 What if all the Gods in the respective world religions are real, and recruiting our souls after death to fight out a bitter eternal war in the afterlife against one another.... Its better to be an atheist :lol: If we never feel tired, don't feel pain, "respawn" and have the option to not fight, it would be kinda awesome :thumbsup: Atheist here btw :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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